# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Other Discussion and Support > Ubuntu Women >  What to do to get women into Linux

## schmidtbag

As a disclaimer, if anything I say in this post is considered offensive, it was not at all intended.

I am 19 years old, I am a male, and I have skimmed through some of the posts in this forum and a lot of them point out the lack of women in the computer field and causes of it, but no solutions.

Problem solving is _typically_ something guys like to do, and if you were to summarize computers in a few words, they do nothing but calculate, rationalize/solve, and ensure precision.  That being said, the nature of computers isn't very feminine (I am not saying at all that this is a problem).

So, I want to know what it is women want that would attract them to computers, not just Linux.  I want to include all women, including ones that know nothing about computers.


What I have noticed is women are typically crafty in a physically, metaphysically, abstractly (if thats a word), and even emotionally way.  I noticed that some (not all) females choose what makes them feel more comfortable over something that may be more efficient or useful.  I have also noticed that most computer-illiterate females use Macs.  A Mac, in my opinion, is flashy, stable, secure, simple, and targeted toward artists (music, video, and picture artists).  There isn't necessarily anything wrong with this, but it again leads to my original question - what do girls and women want to use a computer for something more?


I don't care about posts about games, since all 3 major OSes can game and that is just a preference no matter what gender you are.

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## bokunenjin

I strongly recommend the document HOWTO Encourage Women in Linux.

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## ceciliaFX

"Problem solving" is what I do when I create a special effect. When I got my 1st computer in 1989 I was enthralled by the possibilities. I knew i wouldn't get bored with this great new medium. It was an Amiga, so that's not a surprise.

problem solving is the way my brain naturally works.

the only people I know who are not into computers for creativity tend to use it for things like banking, email and so on. certainly, linux can do all that easily. I would guess that encouraging women or anyone to use linux is a case of security and lack of virus's.

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## ceciliaFX

> I strongly recommend the document HOWTO Encourage Women in Linux.


looked that over - it's basically the same reasons women are not encouraged to do anything. 

fortunately for me, I have never given a rats behind about others opinion of me. I never cared if people thought I was "unfeminine", stupid, too smart, didn't 'belong' or any other that other nonsense.

I have always been completely self-directed. and very ambitious. lucky for me my family always supported me and never treated me as if I was weird. Education has always been valued in my family. and my brother and i were encouraged to do what we wanted to do and follow our talents.

that's the only way to get more people to use linux - bring them up to be smart.  :Smile:

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## jazzguyman

Maybe we can somehow make them 'feel smart' when approaching or using Linux... ideas?

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## schmidtbag

i feel ceciliafx makes some valid points.  what bokunenjin posted is almost like a manual to me haha.  but, that howto is more about getting women to continue to do computer work, not so much getting them into computers as a whole.  any other ideas?

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## ceciliaFX

women will get very excited about computers when they realize they can make money from using them.

and I mean 'work at home' type of careers

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## Swagman

Wow..

AMIGA.. Cecilia

Howdy. Tiz The_Editor/Outcast

Cecilia.. Would be awesome if you could get Kermit to port ImageFX over to Ubuntu

I'd certainly buy a Linux version

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## ceciliaFX

> Wow..
> 
> AMIGA.. Cecilia
> 
> Howdy. Tiz The_Editor/Outcast
> 
> Cecilia.. Would be awesome if you could get Kermit to port ImageFX over to Ubuntu
> 
> I'd certainly buy a Linux version


well, me and various people sometimes talk about STUFF

there has to be some financial gain for Kermit, however. And it's not like some people haven't tried to get something going. can't say any more than that.
but, believe me, it's not easy.

I'm not giving up, however

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## lykwydchykyn

If there is a barrier that prevents a woman who WANTS to be into technology from being in it, then I'm all for removing it.  But I don't see the point in going to great lengths to achieve purely statistical equality in a given field.  I wonder, do people in fields traditionally dominated by women sit around talking about how to get more men into their field?

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## macogw

> If there is a barrier that prevents a woman who WANTS to be into technology from being in it, then I'm all for removing it.  But I don't see the point in going to great lengths to achieve purely statistical equality in a given field.  I wonder, do people in fields traditionally dominated by women sit around talking about how to get more men into their field?


Actually...yes.  There is an ongoing effort, for example, to get more male nurses.

And this is really more about missing out on potential contributors.

Going off of what was said about creativity, I've read that women tend to think of the computer as a tool, or a means to an end...  I don't think the current stereotype that you need to be antisocial and obsessed with hardware is helping any.  Computers aren't seen as "creative" or "artsy" but more "science."  Getting the message out there that creativity and computing DO go together is important, IMO.

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## Little Bit

> Maybe we can somehow make them 'feel smart' when approaching or using Linux... ideas?


I feel smart just because I have Linux! My friend Robin showed me on his laptop how simple it is when he let me borrow it and I surfed awhile, checked my e-mail, copied off of Robin's schoolwork (he said it was okay), and played some music. I said something about how simple and fast his laptop was, and then he said it was Linux! I was stunned. I had used Linux and not even thought about it. It was effortless, fast, elegant, and simple enough even for me to do everything I wanted on it.

*I'm smart just for using Ubuntu* on my computer now instead of having to worry all the time about software licenses, whether or not it's legal, viruses, spyware. It's so liberating!

How to get girls to use it? Well it helps if you're super cute like Robin is, lol, because all the girls want to "borrow" him to show us a dance move or get the cue sheets for the routines - all he really has to do is bring his laptop to dance class. Robin's not a geeky boy at all, so no one expected him to have Linux.

"It's easier than Windows," is all he has to say.

-Amy

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## ceciliaFX

> Computers aren't seen as "creative" or "artsy" ...........


I was attracted to the Amiga in the 1980's Because it was a computer FOR artists.

it's a shame that the people trying to "sell" computers have basically forgotten about that. altho I know MAC's tend to be characterized that way. and in their orbit, they are successful because they make sure their product looks beautiful.

but with the Amiga there was something very grass roots basic about it. it was rebellious! and fun.

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## geekygirl

but..but...computers are creative - they can be very creative when you build your own or when spitting out some rather unexpected results when coding..they get very creative on their own when attempting java or C++...hehe

artsy? have you seen some of the works of art out there called modded desktop computers? have a look at milliondollarpc.com sometime and tell me those desktops are not works of art!!

its all in the eye of the beholder I guess.....

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## Finalfantasykid

Most of my computing science courses is about split in half male/female, which surprised me a little.

I guess it depends on where you live.

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## Bucky Ball

> I was attracted to the Amiga in the 1980's Because it was a computer FOR artists.
> 
> it's a shame that the people trying to "sell" computers have basically forgotten about that. altho I know MAC's tend to be characterized that way. and in their orbit, they are successful because they make sure their product looks beautiful.
> 
> but with the Amiga there was something very grass roots basic about it. it was rebellious! and fun.


+1 Amiga.

As for Apple, they are the only planet in their galaxy when it comes to high-end AV as they have bought everything, software and all. That budges a bit but that was the plan. But yes, all their machines have the appropriate in/outs for quality AV (though sometimes not the other hardware IMHO!).

Think Pro-Tools, think Premiere-Pro. One's made by DigiDesign and the other by Avid, right? Well, kinda. Except Apple own both more or less. They have that side of the market cornered from top to bottom, software to hardware and a foot in every AV studio door that can afford the apparent privilege.

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## LepeKaname

I wanted to introduce my wife into Linux. So I changed the wallpaper, windows decoration, icons, etc... so it looks just as she likes: Something more friendly (eye candy). 

I want it to show her that Linux looks better than the default Windows interface. However, she start to complain about things that she can do in Windows that she can't in Linux. For example, to be able to see the thubnails of her powerpoint files and the content snapshots in folders. But mainly that OpenOffice is not stable (or do not response as MS Office) and that MS Office with wine is too slow (when loading images inside PowerPoint) and some issues that need to be fixed in wine... 

Then I learned a lesson: It doesn't matter how it looks as long as it do what you need and in an easy way. 

She is not like many of us, that we somehow "enjoy" to fix our problems inside Linux because that give us knowledge (and freedom). She is just a normal user that uses a computer just to perform some simple tasks. And if those tasks are not well done in Linux, then she will stick to Windows.

Other case: My sister in law was using Ubuntu, she used it around 2 years, but now she don't use it anymore... why? because she can't make her ATI video card to work propertly and have some problems with her audio. 

Not so many people are willing to "loose" valuable time fixing things that should work... right?

So, what do we need to do to get women (and my grandparents, my uncle, etc.) into Linux? simple: fix those minor problems (I know, it would take time).

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## Little Bit

> It doesn't matter how it looks as long as it do what you need and in an easy way.


The laptop I borrowed from a friend has a custom-made Ubuntu/LXDE mixture which gives it a familiar-looking desktop with clickable icons. That's on purpose because people borrow Robin's laptop all the time at the studio. Anyway, it was so easy I just _assumed_ it was Windows and was shocked when he told me I had been using Linux. It sure made a believer out of me!




> So, what do we need to do to get women (and my grandparents, my uncle, etc.) into Linux? simple: fix those minor problems (I know, it would take time).


When I asked for Linux on my home computer, Robin gave me a CD of his "Robin's Ubuntu Remix" that I had used on his laptop. It already had codecs, multimedia, restricted extras, ndiswrapper and all that. I had nothing to do but _use_ the computer as soon as it was installed. Everything including my printer and scanner just worked immediately! I was stunned that I didn't need to insert a CD and "install" my printer and scanner.

I think it helps if you - the "expert" - do the work in advance like Robin did for me, then just be available to answer questions when she wants to change wallpaper or something like that.

It has sure made a fangirl out of me!
Amy

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## LepeKaname

Thank you Amy for your answer... The only thing it was not quite acceptable for her was that Powerpoint was not the "same", as she need to use it for her job everyday... 

If you have used Powerpoint either the OpenOffice version or with wine, you will see that is lacking of so many things that prevent to work smoothly... unfortunately until those small details are fixed she may use ubuntu a little more. 

She uses Ubuntu only to watch their movies, as videos run faster in Linux than in Windows (in her computer).

At least is something  :Smile:

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## Swagman

PowerPoint is so abysmal. Sadly, due to MS bundling it, nothing else gets a look in.

Ask Cecilia about Scala

It completely annihilates powerpoint in everyway conceivable.. And has always done so right from the early 1990's.

It was even available for Windows platform.

So why did PowerPoint become the defacto presentation programme even though it is so Uber crap?

Could it be that someone has been stifling innovation ?

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## therocco2k

First and foremost, the topic of this thread is really a form of stereotypical nature. It's like saying why do African Americans tend to smoke newport's more then any other cigarette brand. It's not that Women don't use Linux just because they are women, here's why:

Now - I Think the REAL topic is why do so many MEN use Linux instead of Windows?
That question could be just as an anomaly as why women rather use Windows, and I'll break it down for you anyways so you can finally put this post TO REST.

My first argument about why more men use linux then windows is that men are - Competitive, always want to be bigger and better even if it's less convenient, men are generally more prone to Car Accidents then women.

 
Now I think the Absolute and Final answer to this entire thread's Topic is answered by the above statements. Men are generally more prone to doing everything to the extreme. For a woman, Windows is a Computer and Linux isn't even a word they know. Now, Why is this? Because when a woman goes to BUY a computer, what OS does it come equipped with? Windows. And why would a woman change what already works perfeclty fine for their needs? Continue reading...

 :Guitar:  Man 

 :Wave:  Woman

For the very same arguments I gave about men doing everything matcho, most male Linux users dont even need Linux and just use it because it's Different, and rare upon computer users, that my friends is exactly why men install it. Men want to go to the Extreme in all aspects of life, even computers. Why just use Windows, when I can install Linux and be DIFFERENT and EXTREME.

Afterall, Women; They alreadu tend to have enough to deal with and more important things to worry about then installing LINUX. For Example: Birthing, PMS cycles, etc...he fact is most Computer users in general are male in the first place. 

The fact is most Computer users in general are male, and in my closing statment I would like to say this Topic should have been figured out about 20 posts ago.

Men Want To Do Everything Bigger and Better than EVERYBODY ELSE. Women, only when absolutly needed, WILL use linux - but MEN - Well Men will use Linux just because It's not windows, and it looks cool.

Could I Please get an Amen,

I would like to know what you guys think about my post and my argument, and if they Agree with Me. For all I know, there's a few people that just want to keep this thread going even though alot of people have already posted great answers that answer the topic question,

So - Do You now understand why more men use linux then women, or in my
half full glass, Why More Men Must use Linux, even when there is absolutly no reasonable reason for them to use it.

Thank you for taking the time to read my Thoughts on this Question, I hope I shed some light on the Creator of this Thread.

R.V.C
rcastoro@verizon.net

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## LepeKaname

I agree with you *therocco2k*. I could just add a little bit more. I think in general it is not matter of men or women, its more related to each one's interests. For example, there are people that enjoy to go shopping, and they can expend a whole day in shops even without buying! I could say that women tend to do that more than men.

But its matter of interests...

When you buy your car, are you the kind of people that like to "redesign" it? add it special tires, radio, etc? I could say that men tend to do that more than women.

So, what about Linux?

Linux is just one more thing. I will try to quote my wife:




> You must be passionate about computers to spend more time of the necessary with them


As it is with shoppings, as it is with cars, and any other thing around us.

So Linux is for those people that want something that Windows can't give them: as to be DIFFERENT, to be EXTREME, to be FREE, to be COOL, to be BETTER, or whatever is your reason...

As you said, I think the "sexist" statement about Linux and women should be finish.

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## mustangzach

Ha. I'm a guy (apparently by my name lol), and I just converted a woman and her husband to Ubuntu. She loves it. She hates Windows, and has told all of her friends about Ubuntu and that I set it up- she's in my "Extended Support" now, and I have three more people on the waiting list. (Two of them are women)

So maybe there are just less female geeks. 

-Z

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## juancarlospaco

Hi, im a men from Argentina, im thinking...
why _"how to do to get women into Linux"_ need to be different from  _"how to do to get men into Linux"_

 :Smile:

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## LepeKaname

> why "how to do to get women into Linux" need to be different from "how to do to get men into Linux"


Totally agree! 
I think it should be: "_how to go to get windows users into Linux_"

which "mustangzach" had an interesting solution:




> she's in my "Extended Support" now

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## aesis05401

Hold on a second here - 

Am I gong to have to leave my basement to participate in this woman recruiting drive?

 :Wink: 

P.S. I am married to a woman who works with animals all day and she will use anything that works provided I take over as soon as a problem arises.  My little sister, who went to a special college to pursue a degree in clinical feminine psychology, will *only* use Apple products because she feels Apple is the only company that produces products that do not force a masculine design paradigm on their customers.

Nothing will work for everyone.

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## juancarlospaco

> I think it should be: "_how to go to get windows users into Linux_"


*How to go to get users into Ubuntu*

Or you leave OS X and *BSD users out  :Smile:

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## sandwormblues

Chicks dig Adobe software.

seriously.  I can't get any of my girlfriends hooked on Linux because they all use Flash or Premiere or Indesign or something.

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## dai_bach

"What I have noticed is women are typically crafty in a physically, metaphysically, abstractly (if thats a word), and even emotionally way."

I'm pretty sure that "abstractly" isn't a word and in the context of what you're saying, *physically doesn't make sense either.  Just say "..physical, metaphysical, abstract and even emotional..."

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## Little Bit

> Chicks dig Adobe software.
> 
> seriously.  I can't get any of my girlfriends hooked on Linux because they all use Flash...


Flash is easy to get for Ubuntu from Medibuntu, you know.  Don't know about those other applications, but Adobe is pretty much Linux-friendly.

Amy

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## juancarlospaco

> Flash is easy to get for Ubuntu from Medibuntu, you know.


hehehe, no lady..., 
he say the Flash Editor, a program to build Flash animations.
 :Smile: 

Whatever theres Flash For Linux, 
and SwishMAX Flash Editor (Freeware) works nice on Wine.
Adobe is replaced by Free software in most cases.

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## ceciliaFX

> ...Women; They alreadu tend to have enough to deal with and more important things to worry about then installing LINUX. For Example: Birthing, PMS cycles, etc...


LOL

so, I love linux because I have never had PMS or children.
ok

an interesting idea there

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## ceciliaFX

> PowerPoint is so abysmal. Sadly, due to MS bundling it, nothing else gets a look in.
> 
> Ask Cecilia about Scala
> 
> It completely annihilates powerpoint in everyway conceivable.. And has always done so right from the early 1990's.
> 
> It was even available for Windows platform.
> 
> So why did PowerPoint become the defacto presentation programme even though it is so Uber crap?
> ...


Scala was great - and like most Amiga programs just simple to use!!

these days there's a program called Hollywood which is supposed to "replace" powerpoint. one of these days I have to try this out

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## Viva

Install it on your missus' or mom's computer.

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## hypatia

> Install it on your missus' or mom's computer.


Even better - help her learn to install it herself.  Step back from the keyboard  :Smile:

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## Copernicus1234

> As a disclaimer, if anything I say in this post is considered offensive, it was not at all intended.
> 
> I am 19 years old, I am a male, and I have skimmed through some of the posts in this forum and a lot of them point out the lack of women in the computer field and causes of it, but no solutions.
> 
> Problem solving is _typically_ something guys like to do, and if you were to summarize computers in a few words, they do nothing but calculate, rationalize/solve, and ensure precision.  That being said, the nature of computers isn't very feminine (I am not saying at all that this is a problem).
> 
> So, I want to know what it is women want that would attract them to computers, not just Linux.  I want to include all women, including ones that know nothing about computers.
> 
> 
> ...


I think women are more superficial than men and they also dont enjoy spending time fixing computer problems for the same reason they dont like changing tires on cars. It doesnt give them any emotional feedback since they have no interest in it.

Most women are probably smarter in more ways than men are. They tend to notice details better and they usually have great memories of what has been said or done. Im amazed how every women in the office notices every time someone has a new tie or new shoes they havent worn before. Or how they can tell me what someone said, almost sentence by sentence, from a phone call a week earlier. Absolutely amazing.

So how to make a operating system appeal to women? Any OS that looks flashy, is intuitive and just works in a natural way will be a success. Its pretty much what guys want too I think, even though we may value advanced functionality over prettiness a bit more.

What do you think, am I right or wrong? Its difficult to discuss this without making generalizations, if not impossible, so...

Also note that these differences between the genders are more of less 100% because of upbringing and society. On a planet with 100% women, you would still have the same percentage of the population fixing cars, no doubt.  :Smile:

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## macogw

> I wanted to introduce my wife into Linux. So I changed the wallpaper, windows decoration, icons, etc... so it looks just as she likes: Something more friendly (eye candy). 
> 
> I want it to show her that Linux looks better than the default Windows interface. However, she start to complain about things that she can do in Windows that she can't in Linux. For example, to be able to see the thumbnails of her powerpoint files and the content snapshots in folders. But mainly that OpenOffice is not stable (or do not response as MS Office) and that MS Office with wine is too slow (when loading images inside PowerPoint) and some issues that need to be fixed in wine...


Er...yeah, OpenOffice's presentation thing is just plain hard to use.



> Then I learned a lesson: It doesn't matter how it looks as long as it do what you need and in an easy way.


Depending on what you're doing the software may be easier or harder to use.  For my mom, the desktop itself (the applications menu and all) is easier enough to make Ubuntu easier than Windows overall.



> Afterall, Women; They alreadu tend to have enough to deal with and more important things to worry about then installing LINUX. For Example: Birthing, PMS cycles, etc...


Er...having cramps doesn't make it impossible to hack or geek out.  I had cramps the night I was at a KDE developer's birthday party and helping one of the Kubuntu developers figure out one of the settings in the upcoming Kubuntu Netbook Edition.



> The fact is most Computer users in general are male, and in my closing statment I would like to say this Topic should have been figured out about 20 posts ago.


Um...no.  Most people use computers nowadays.  Unless you're like 80 and still dead-set on all letters being handwritten with proper penmanship like they were 70 years ago, you probably type letters on the computer and either print them or email them.  The largest gamer demographic is middle-aged women playing in-browser games.  Teenage boys and girls alike spend the majority of their free-time talking to each other via text messages and instant messages (what? did you forget cell phones are computers?).


Holy crap this thread is full of mansplaining!

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## lykwydchykyn

> Holy crap this thread is full of mansplaining!


Hehe... it's been one of the more entertaining threads in my subscription list.

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## JanC

> Chicks dig Adobe software.
> 
> seriously.  I can't get any of my girlfriends hooked on Linux because they all use Flash or Premiere or Indesign or something.


Well, it seems like Femke Snelting, Ludivine Loiseau & Yi Jiang _and_ their male colleagues of Open Source Publishing dig applications like The GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus & FontForge.  What's more, *OSP won a major Belgian book design prize doing so*.

Most graphics professionals (and serious amateurs), both men an women, were taught to use Adobe products and/or have used them for years already, so that's what they know, and many of them are wary of "losing" time learning something new (especially if they don't see any extra value in it).  And maybe people like the OSP members are forerunners of a new generation in some way, a bit like the early Amiga adopters were in their days (BTW: Blender has some origins on the Amiga too!).

More to the point, it would be nice if people wouldn't generalize and stereotype so much.  Have a look at people's background, and start from there.  And be honest; e.g. don't tell them Inkscape is (always) as good as Illustrator if they are into design for print (but maybe point them to sk1 which supports CMYK process colours & spot colours?).  You can also point people to stories from other people who came from a similar background and switched to Ubuntu (or open source more in general), or use those stories to help them.  That would help a lot more to get more women _and_ men involved in open source & Ubuntu than all the "men are like this and women are like that" theories.

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