# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Other Discussion and Support > Ubuntu Women >  Offensive screenshots

## Meskarune

I've come across more than one screenshot that I've actually found offensive.

Like, when I'm browsing gnome-look or following a screenshot install guide...The desktop backgrounds in the shots will have naked or masterbating women or even comics with derogatory jokes. Is anyone else bothered by this?

I have no problems with people puting those things on their personal desktops. But I think it should be kept off tutorials and theme previews. 

Heres an example of what I'm talking about**: http://b.imagehost.org/0610/Ubuntu_by_Homergitude.jpg

That image is NSFW.

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## Stefanie

oh come on do you really think this is offensive? it's just a picture of a woman's body, nothing denigrating or sexist...

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## Hooya

Anyone know where I can get that wallpaper?

Only kidding a little, my wife probably wouldn't approve.   :Wink: 

The comics thing I can understand I suppose, but I guess I'd just take it this way: the screenshots are not meant for political commentary, and unless it pictures illegal activity (child porn, murder) I should hope you would be able to ignore it for the sake of the intended content.  Adding "NSFW" tags would be a courtesy of those posting though.

And I agree with the above post that the linked picture isn't really offensive, but I can also see why you wouldn't want to link to ones that are, so I'll take that screenshot you mention as a mild example.

If you really have problems, report the post and move on your way.

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## bapoumba

Agreed with the posts above. If there is a reporting system on a community site, use it and let the admins deal with the post, screenshot etc. If a site does not meet your standards, just do not go there and do not contribute. That's my own policy.
There is a report system here on UF. Every report is read and taken into account.

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## Meskarune

> I can also see why you wouldn't want to link to ones that are, so I'll take that screenshot you mention as a mild example.
> 
> If you really have problems, report the post and move on your way.


Yeah, I mean I've come across anime girls in bondage and stuff...But I didn't want to link something totally graphic. There are also people under the age of 18 who use those sites and come across the images.

And I do use the reporting system, but I think this needs to be talked about anyway. I'm sure many of the people who post screenshots don't even take their background image into consideration before posting. So I think maybe if the issue were "out there" and known, people might be more considerate.

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## Stefanie

> Yeah, I mean I've come across anime girls in bondage and stuff...But I didn't want to link something totally graphic. There are also people under the age of 18 who use those sites and come across the images.
> 
> And I do use the reporting system, but I think this needs to be talked about anyway. I'm sure many of the people who post screenshots don't even take their background image into consideration before posting. So I think maybe if the issue were "out there" and known, people might be more considerate.


i really don't think this is a major issue here. this is a computer-related forum, people don't post child porn or snuff vids (and if they do they'll get banned). you may come accross some screenshots, that's true, but nothing that is really meant to be offensive or sexist. 
There may be teenagers here, but those screenshots won't traumatize them. i'm sure they see far worse things elsewhere on the internet. i think it's wrong to try to keep them away from anything related to sex. it's all part of growing up, and you just can't censor everything.

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## Meskarune

> i really don't think this is a major issue here. this is a computer-related forum, people don't post child porn or snuff vids (and if they do they'll get banned). you may come accross some screenshots, that's true, but nothing that is really meant to be offensive or sexist. 
> There may be teenagers here, but those screenshots won't traumatize them. i'm sure they see far worse things elsewhere on the internet. i think it's wrong to try to keep them away from anything related to sex. it's all part of growing up, and you just can't censor everything.


It doesn't matter how people intend something to come across, what matters is how it does come across. And respect should be shown to all members of the community. If I posted something that people thought was offensive, but I did not think was offensive, I would still change it because others were offended. 

And there may be "far worse things" on the net, but that doesn't mean consessions should be made for the things that are not as bad. 

This is not about cencorship of the media and keeping teenagers away from sexual materials. This is about respect for women and others minorities. There is a time and place for porn, and a help topic isn't one of those places. People who do not want to have to look at something offensive while trouble shooting a problem should not have to. 

And in the US at least, it is illegal for minors to be exposed to pornographic material.

All I am saying is this is something people should think about. And maybe more people will pay attention to the screenshots they post after reading this thread. Also the more people who are aware of this issue and report things, the better the linux community online will be.

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## spectrevk

Two points:

One, I think that whenever you're going to be presenting something like a desktop screenshot to a wide community of people of varying ages and cultures, it's good to be mindful of "offensive" images. Obviously there's a limit; I suppose atheists might be offended by religious imagery in a background wallpaper, but if it's something as simple as a cross or star of David, well...that's not really something you should have to self-censor.

Two, on the subject of nudity in wallpapers, I think the context of the picture is very important. Whether we're talking about photography or drawn art, there are very fine lines between what I would consider to be legitimately "questionable" for public consumption, and what I would consider artistic nudity. I think that the pendulum has swung too far in both directions. Places where artistic nudity is to be shared often get clogged with more erotic/pornographic material, while at the same time images that are more tasteful, artistic, or at least of a more "teasing" variety, tend to get lumped in with material that is misogynistic or pornographic. There is also a tendency to consider the last two terms to be the same thing, often on dubious grounds. 

Human nudity is not necessarily sexualized, and even when it is, I think there are degrees of acceptability. The example provided in the original post is, I think, in somewhat poor taste if that's the default wallpaper for a theme package someone has made, and I have certainly seen a lot of oddly nude-centric themes/wallpapers on gnome-look.org, but I would stop short of calling it "offensive". I can see an argument for it being misogynistic, as the cropping is objectifying, removing her face from the picture, making it more a photo of female parts than a photo of a woman per se, but I also think that level of analysis is inappropriate for the judgement of wallpapers on the internet. 

I guess what I'm saying is that I see nothing wrong with wallpapers like the one in the original post, but I think that this sort of linux OS material should have its own section, keeping the general wallpaper/screenshot sharing areas "safe for work".

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## Toadmund

That's not all of it either!
How many sexual references can you find here?

(see attachment)  :Shocked:

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## Stefanie

> It doesn't matter how people intend something to come across, what matters is how it does come across. And respect should be shown to all members of the community. If I posted something that people thought was offensive, but I did not think was offensive, I would still change it because others were offended. 
> 
> And there may be "far worse things" on the net, but that doesn't mean consessions should be made for the things that are not as bad. 
> 
> This is not about cencorship of the media and keeping teenagers away from sexual materials. This is about respect for women and others minorities. There is a time and place for porn, and a help topic isn't one of those places. People who do not want to have to look at something offensive while trouble shooting a problem should not have to. 
> 
> And in the US at least, it is illegal for minors to be exposed to pornographic material.
> 
> All I am saying is this is something people should think about. And maybe more people will pay attention to the screenshots they post after reading this thread. Also the more people who are aware of this issue and report things, the better the linux community online will be.


there's a difference between nudity and porn, like spectrevk said. it's also very difficult to define what is offensive and what is not. my wallpaper is a picture taken on a holiday. I'm wearing a tank top so you see my naked arms and shoulders. In a lot of cultures this would be extremely offensive. In my eyes pictures of (firing) guns are a lot more offensive than nudity (guns kill people but naked bodies don't), and slogans like "god hates fags" are totally unacceptable. still i don't think this should be censored.

i agree that people should think twice before posting pornographic material. but how often does that happen here? we shouldn't be too puritan and whine about some naked bodies, but rather insist on tolerance and open-mindedness.

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## k3lt01

My goodness that was a long read. Henry, you most certainly have a way with words. I congratulate you on this last post. It has been a very long time since I have read such a well though out post full of an individuals personal perception. Now I will tell you how I disagree with it.

I thought about answering each part after putting it in a quote box, but have since thought that would just be a waste of time. Instead I will point out a few very simple things to you.

The innocents of children is paramount to me. I work with them everyday and I see the effects of society's, global society's. on them. Whether or not you find the public viewing of the naked human body, or any part thereof, a good or bad thing for yourself doesn't mean you are correct for everyone else. The simple fact is normalising something doesn't make it right. By your logic if the public display of nudity is ok on the internet then it is ok everywhere else. I don't agree with that thought.

Your use of Google, or what ever you used, to find the definitions is commendable. However, regardless of what your definitions state there are people who find such things offensive and that does not make them insane. Yes you posted these words but the context of them could be taken in many different ways.

Insanity does not mean someone is flouting societies norms. Insanity more often than not means the person is incapable of proper mental processes. Flouting societies laws is something completely different.

Your choice to write the word you used in a format other than its correct form you have shown indicates to you that there are some things that don't need to be in public discussion because people may take offence at its graphic nature. That is where you lose your argument. Pictures are graphics, so if a word that is graphic in nature can be considered to offend then a picture that can be considered to offend has no place in such a place like this.

I don't subscribe to the idea that rules limit what we can do, instead I subscribe to the idea that rules open things up for discussion and if appropriate the rules are modified to suit the situation. If you consider rules to be restrictive then I would ask you to consider how people feel when the actions of others make them feel uncomfortable.

I point you back to the Ubuntu forum guidelines, you can argue what being offensive is with the mods.

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## doublepedaldylan

To all who are saying they are offended by this, I must disagree as well.

I actually believe this was VERY tastefully done.  Do you know how much nude art there is?
I actually follow that kind of stuff closely.  The human body is a beautiful thing and the "omg, nudity!!!" mentality is so middle-school.

(NSFW if you actually follow the links, AND create an account)
http://www.deviantart.com/
the have a section under photography>people for artistic nudes.  IF you are of age, i would suggest checking it out. (IF OF AGE)

If I am correct, I don't think you are allowed to sign up for an account on ANY site if you are under 13.  And if a minor is looking for that kind of stuff, I doubt they would be on the ubuntu forums  :Smile:  

I agree, it is questionable as to whether the person SHOULD have posted, but defiantly should have used an NSFW, but it should NOT be offensive.  There is a LOT worse out there, and this was done QUITE tastefully.

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## lisati

> I've come across more than one screenshot that I've actually found offensive.
> 
> Like, when I'm browsing gnome-look or following a screenshot install guide...The desktop backgrounds in the shots will have naked or masterbating women or even comics with derogatory jokes. Is anyone else bothered by this?
> 
> I have no problems with people puting those things on their personal desktops. But I think it should be kept off tutorials and theme previews. 
> 
> Heres an example of what I'm talking about**: http://b.imagehost.org/0610/Ubuntu_by_Homergitude.jpg
> 
> That image is NSFW.


 :Smile:  Curiosity got me looking. Please excuse me while I have a cold shower and give myself a severe telling off.

BTW: I think you have a point: while people are free to choose what they do with their own machines, the image isn't exactly appropriate for tutorials.

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## elizabeth

I think this discussion has been a good one, clearly there are some valid disagreements and good discussion, but...




> The human body is a beautiful thing and the "omg, nudity!!!" mentality is so middle-school.


...don't you think it's a bit morally presumptuous of you to dictate what people _should_ be offended by, and then call a mentality[0] "middle-school" when they disagree with you?

I'd appreciate it if we could keep this discussion on the side of not restoring to name-calling and telling people how they should feel, please have some respect for what other people find offensive and objectionable.

[0] I don't know who said "omg, nudity!!!" I think the OP was quite mature and clear with her objection.

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## k3lt01

> ...don't you think it's a bit morally presumptuous of you to dictate what people _should_ be offended by, and then call a mentality[0] "middle-school" when they disagree with you?


 There are always two sides to every discussion, unless of course you live in a dictatorship, and in this discussion we have had the 1 "I find this offensive" and the 2 "if you find it offensive thats your problem" or the "if you find this offensive your (insert any particular social insult here you desire)" sides.

People who find nudity offensive in such places are not socially inept, despite what some people may think. For these people to suggest such a thing takes away a basic human right of respect.

What is "tasteful" to some is a problem to others. This discussion could have a political or religious topic instead of a nudity one and the same thing would happen, you would have the people who wish to discuss and find a way forward and you will have the people who are bent on forcing their thoughts and moral processes (morality being a socially based construct) on others. Neither side holds the moral sway or high ground yet there is always one side who resorts to put downs indicating they are correct and anything outside their world view is therefor wrong. When it gets to that point the discussion is, unfortunately, hijacked and feelings of superiority take over.

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## RoboNuggie

A storm in a tea cup.....

Simple solution, as alluded to by the OP, official or tutorial screenshots should feature official branding, personal screenshots should feature anything they want as along as it doesn't show or encourage illegal behaviour.

If by looking at personal screenshots you may be offended then either stop looking at personal screenshots or perhaps realise that there are more important things in life and more horrific acts in this world than a semi-nude wallpaper.

If you are offended by the semi naked shot, are you offended by 
Michelangelos David? Or the imagery on the Sistine Chapel? 

Is a nudy mag offensive? If so, are the Chippendales offensive also? What about Un Vent de Folie (Paris, 1927) featuring Josephine Baker in a banana costume?

Does je't aime by Jane Birkin & Serge Gainsbourg offend you? How about Relax by Frankie Goes To Hollywood?

The thing is, all these things are part of our culture,they celebrate humanity, sex and the body...albeit for different reasons.

I don't understand the outcry over imagery of the body or nudity per se, but little or no outcry over war symbolism, war films or rock groups/rap stars advocating violence and horror.

I am English, and very much a European, so perhaps my views are liberal....

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## gregbzh

Well put.  I agree totally.  I'm a Kiwi living in France and think that you've hit the nail on the head.

Cheers.

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## k3lt01

> Well put.  I agree totally.  I'm a Kiwi living in France and think that you've hit the nail on the head.
> 
> Cheers.


LOL, aren't you just the outsider then. Although your profile says your in Brittany and the Bretons have a separate identity to the French.

Now to the next problem, the term Liberal has very different meanings in different places and in different contexts.

Methinks we also need to remember the OP was written buy a female who finds female nudity displayed in such a way offensive. To bring in things like Michaelangelo etc brings in very different contexts, disagree all you like but it is a fact that a few of the things mentioned as pot shots against the "offensive group" have deeply religious and not personal gratification contexts. Also think about how many of the so called "Liberals" commenting here are male. I wonder how many of you would be comfortable in a board meeting having a picture of a naked male, and not off the roof of a church either, on their laptop for their bosses to see?

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## wsonar

Didn't read through the thread have seen a lot of it on gnome-look

some I find amusing some maybe shouldn't be there

not sure how moderated it is

tho it could be hard to discriminate and if someone wants to share something they should have a place for it

but some people do a pretty bad job of putting a ubuntu logo on a naked chick

sorry if term "chick" offends anyone

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## RoboNuggie

k3lt01

Just out of curiosity,do you believe that the idolisation of nudity is a purely male preserve?

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## k3lt01

No I don't RoboNuggie. There are many instances throughout history and in many different cultures that indicate its not a male only domain.

I just made my point knowing there are people who haven't read this entire thread and also knowing that guys are often the loudest, as is happening in this thread, when others make comment about such topics.

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## Rival9999999999

I still can't find this wall paper. It would be nice to have.

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## meela

Not a lot of nude images offend me these days. I do find it puzzling why someone would put a naked person in their screenshot for icons, or a desktop theme. It seems to say "use my theme and cartoon women will think you are hot", which is (to my mind) indicative of the poor thought process that is going on behind the screenshot. 

However, I think that the Ubuntu community owes Meskarune, and everyone else out there, the right not to be confronted by images and opinons that make them feel bad. 

Would it be great if we all started using black people being lynched as backgrounds in screenshots? No - because it offends lots of people. Would it be good if we showed guys in yamulkes eating bacon in screenshots? No - because it would offend jewish people. Would it be good to use pictures of redneck white people being morons (I dunno, fathering their own sisters or something)? No - it would make those people feel angry, bad, degraded and not welcomed. 

Meskarune's post is about feeling welcomed by the community, and not alienated by pictures s/he may find off putting. 

The community owes it to members to be welcoming.

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## k3lt01

Meela, your post is brilliant.

P.S. Welcome  :Very Happy:

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## WatchingThePain

I've seen 'worse' than that at the Tate Gallery.
Some people might find that offensive. In some countries they would black images like that out.
Who would want that on their desktop anyway, people will think your a perv. what happens when your Gran visits?.
I don't get the link between Ubuntu and semi nude women.
It's like when Cars get advertised they drape a non-essential bleached blonde Bimbo over the bonnet like it's essential.
I just hope the car gets washed before someone buys it.

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## t.rei

a) Everyone may customize their Desktop as they please.
b) Sex is natural
c) Good looking women showing off their body is totally ok.

So, as long as no law is broken: 
Remember: There are countries were makeup is bad, and there are some where public nudity is fully accepted. 

It's a matter of taste. Internet being rather global, you might find things you don't like.

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## glotz

What this thread needs is more pictures and less talk.  :Wink:

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## Lupi

> a) Everyone may customize their Desktop as they please.
> b) Sex is natural
> c) Good looking women showing off their body is totally ok.
> 
> So, as long as no law is broken: 
> Remember: There are countries were makeup is bad, and there are some where public nudity is fully accepted. 
> 
> It's a matter of taste. Internet being rather global, you might find things you don't like.


Thank you.

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## lisati

> I'm a Kiwi living in France


Is it "Kia jour" or "Bon ora" to say "gidday" to you?




> a) Everyone may customize their Desktop as they please.
> ...<snip>...
>  Internet being rather global, you might find things you don't like.


Nicely said.

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## mechdave

I suppose in the end of the day, if it is not to your taste then don't look at it (it is what you do with tv isn't it?). Put filters on your kids internet by all means, monitor their IRC chatting to make sure they are not being corrupted, but you can't go and say "I don't like this stuff please remove it" as everyone here has a freedom to express themselves as they wish providing they don't contraviene any laws. BTW great debate  :Smile: 
Cheers,
    Mechdave

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## Megrimn

respect.

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## Swagman

I don't think the image in the OP is the problem it's what impression it gives.

For example... *THIS* is my current backdrop.

I'm pretty sure you can grasp that I think Guy Fawkes was right although shame about the rest of the place.

Some people, probably politicians, would deem that as HIGHLY offensive. I guess the answer is to use thumbnails that represent the theme. That way you get a general idea without the high resolution and shouldn't click on the thumbnail if it looks like the main image will offend you.

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## ceciliaFX

wow, that's beautiful

and the original post with nude woman is hardly "offensive"

in fact I have often used an image of a shirtless Christian Bale for a wallpaper.

WOOT!

I find censorship offensive, frankly

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## paks.dreamer

I personally do not think that the OP is asking too much in asking us to consider our members' comfort, and our young members' mental and emotional safety, when browsing and learning within our community by *some sort of warning before posting visual images or adult content*, and I'm a little surprised so many responded with the slack "ah, it's ok, it's just a naked woman, that's not offensive, so chill" and "if you don't like it, don't look" attitude.

I agree naked women are not offensive.  I agree if you don't like something you shouldn't look at it.  I agree good looking, naked women are indeed "ok", that sharing is caring, and that one should customise their desktop as they wish.  But if that was your response, you missed the point entirely.  The OP couldn't have been clearer, either: *"I have no problems with people puting those things on their personal desktops. But I think it should be kept off tutorials and theme previews."*

The OP used this visual as an example of what they've seen in PUBLIC tutorials and theme previews where UNDER 18 USERS are welcome to browse & absorb and ANY USER (of any age, sexual preference, starting to get the point here?) gets the full image in their face *with no warning*:
NSFW-adult content: http://b.imagehost.org/0610/Ubuntu_by_Homergitude.jpg

as well as verbal examples: "naked or masterbating women", "comics with derogatory jokes".

Yet there's the first page in ignorant disagreement of her, and an entire lengthy thread to follow, discussing whether that picture was tasteful or not as if that was the bloody point, and how you'd let YOUR children at it, because it's "natural".

Are you guys serious?

Our community is a learning/sharing environment which can be commonly accessed by anyone, whether from school, a workplace, or in the home -- posting adult content with no warning is not cool.

I think the picture's gorgeous, but there's no doubt the woman's in that position for your visual pleasure.  It is a sexual image.   Whether you like it or not, it is something not everyone wants to look at without being told they're about to see it.  On top of that, it's not about "shocking or offensive" when it comes to minors.  Many kids are not shocked by the things they see; it's not the point.  It's about "desensitisation before understanding" -- a visual influence before they're mature or experienced enough to comprehend the subtleties of how to interpret this image, and how they will then relate (it) to others.  Besides the moral side of things that some of you have still yet to grasp, and some of you never will, *giving minors access to adult content is illegal.*

Such rules are already in places around forums and closed communities on the internet protecting our broad range of users, and our minors, for good reason.  Here is part of the ubuntu forums TOS:

_"You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated material or any other material that may violate any applicable laws."

"Be respectful of all users at all times."

"Remember that the forums are used by people of all age groups and of all tolerance levels."

"Messages containing sexually oriented/violent/illegal dialogue, images, content, or links to these things will be deleted. Messages with links to or suggesting illegal activity will also be deleted. Posting or linking to any of these could result in a ban."_

I believe all the OP has asked is that you extend this maturity to our open/public/free community as well, and consider it when posting or sharing content.  If you absolutely must show off your sexy desktops, adult opinions, or hilarious but very wrong comics, at least post a warning to other users so they have a choice in not seeing it.

The fact that someone has had to ask for this basic human freedom on behalf of themself and the minors around here, and that people are actually arguing about it, kind of disgusts me.

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## theluddite

> I don't think the image in the OP is the problem it's what impression it gives.
> 
> For example... *THIS* is my current backdrop.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you can grasp that I think Guy Fawkes was right although shame about the rest of the place.
> 
> Some people, probably politicians, would deem that as HIGHLY offensive. I guess the answer is to use thumbnails that represent the theme. That way you get a general idea without the high resolution and shouldn't click on the thumbnail if it looks like the main image will offend you.


That is an amazing picture!  Where did you get it?  I doubt anyone would find it offensive since it doesn't appear to be a statement about Fawkes at all (the Thames has been drained, the parliament buildings are still largely intact and I'm pretty sure that's a car in the bottom right of the screen) but just a post-apocalyptic London cityscape.

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## k3lt01

> the parliament buildings are still largely intact


 partially collapsed, gutted etc but still largely intact!

That statement shows this thread to a "t". It's all about perception, the fact that the parliamentary precinct IS damaged indicates something is wrong. The other things could be put down to Global Warming but collapsed buildings indicate lack of maintenance and due care when it could and should be exercised.

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## k3lt01

Hey paks.dreamer, careful the guys here might think your crazy posting stuff like that or ask you questions that have very little to do with the real topic.

Thanks for the thoughtful post, I was thinking I was alone in my general thoughts about topics like this since the OP hasn't posted for a long time.

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## Jago6060

Ok, Before everyone reads this, understand that its purely opinion based on an undeniable fact...

I think people getting "offended" but nude/semi-nude/derogatory images or jokes is ridiculous.  It just shows that we're raised to be so cautious and try to please everyone, that our own personal views get obscured beyond belief.

Now with that said, I also understand where you're coming from(thread starter).  I have a daughter who is only 2 1/2 years old.  Obviously I don't want her to see naked people running around on the streets or vulgar language posted on billboards.  But we as a society have to understand that we're essentially in the middle of a social revolution, and have been for a good number of years.  We're transitioning from a tight *** PC culture, to a more free and open one.  As generation progress, norms will change and things will become evident.

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## k3lt01

> Ok, Before everyone reads this, understand that its purely opinion based on an undeniable fact...


Hmmmm, this is a problem in itself, people telling others that facts are undeniable! The earth is flat was an undeniable fact, the earth is in the centre of the universe was an undeniable fact, I could mention many more that are all equally ludicrous and were believed as much as you believe what your saying.




> I think people getting "offended" but nude/semi-nude/derogatory images or jokes is ridiculous.  It just shows that we're raised to be so cautious and try to please everyone, that our own personal views get obscured beyond belief.
> 
> 
> Now with that said, I also understand where you're coming from(thread starter).  I have a daughter who is only 2 1/2 years old.  Obviously I don't want her to see naked people running around on the streets or vulgar language posted on billboards.


 Where do you draw the line? We had a case in Australia late last year where an "artist" had an exhibition in a reasonably well known gallery that contained nothing more than Playboy style shots of an 11 year old girl. Is that acceptable behaviour? The majority of people said no yet there were people making the same statements you are making here saying times are changing so we should change with them.




> But we as a society have to understand that we're essentially in the middle of a social revolution, and have been for a good number of years.  We're transitioning from a tight *** PC culture, to a more free and open one.  As generation progress, norms will change and things will become evident.


Says who? Actually if you look at political results around the world we are not progressing from the PC culture you mention, instead we are moving back to conservatism. If this is a good or bad thing I don't know yet.

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## paks.dreamer

My younger male cousins might have appreciated some censorship or warning or perhaps a curtain when, as young children, they ran ahead a few feet at an art exhibition for famous children's artist and author Norman Lindsay (The Magic Pudding) -- straight from rooms of interesting childrens' art and sculptures, into an unexpected eyeful of tasteless nudity, lewd art, and bestiality.  The poor darlings copped an eyeful.  Luckily my mum noticed and diverted me before I saw it.  She actually explained what had happened at the time, and I was VERY appreciative that I hadn't "had to see that".  My imagination had been bad (and, in retrospect, probably accurate) enough, and I found it rather horrifying and disgusting.  Children may be curious but they appreciate the boundaries we set.  They don't WANT to be warped, they do want things explained verbally and understood in due time, before they have to be confused visually.  At least this is my, and many other childrens' (that I've known), experience.  If you feel otherwise, and saw things as a child that you are now annoyed were "hidden", maybe it's because you, too, desired an explanation, instead of having to feel confused and "wrong" or punished about what you saw too young.

Let a child grow up first, adult things are a burden to their minds.  Let them be easy.  It might be something you desire, but it's not something they want or need yet.  By all means explain things with your words, but visual without explanation is confusing.

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## k3lt01

> <snip>.


Ah I think I do. Laws are different in other countries and I do not know where some people on this site are from. The BIG problem I have with this thread is how people assume everyone else MUST know or MUST conform to THEIR thought patterns. There is no real respect when people make statements such as you made here. I'm in this discussion because I appreciate what others think and feel, while having my OWN thoughts and feelings that do not agree with them.

I have lived in many different parts of Australia and from my experience not one state/territory agrees with the others on seemingly simple issues such as this. So how can we expect people from around the planet to agree with their own laws let alone stand by the laws of a country they don't live in?

<snip>

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## mal1958

> a) Everyone may customize their Desktop as they please.
> b) Sex is natural
> c) Good looking women showing off their body is totally ok.
> 
> So, as long as no law is broken: 
> Remember: There are countries were makeup is bad, and there are some where public nudity is fully accepted. 
> 
> It's a matter of taste. Internet being rather global, you might find things you don't like.


  A point I would like to make here is that while the Internet is a global entity, I would think that one should put a warning on the link to a screenshot that showed nudity.  When my son was eight he was surfing the net looking for some pokemon pics and desktop wallpaper.  He clicked on a link and got a large 1024 x 768 wallpaper popping up on his screen that was a collage of pokemon hentai.  Being mildly autistic (high functioning) he was shocked and so was I when I saw there was no warning as to the type of content.

While your first and second statement are correct for all, your third is simply an opinion.  It depends on where you are from.  If you go to France and some other European countries, the yes a woman showing her body off is perfectly allright.  But be prepared for some serious consequenses if you do the same thing in Iran, or Iraq.  

My main point here is that I think that a 'tasteful' nude pic is ok, but I would also wish to see some sort of warning on the link, so that if I don't wish to see a nude shot of somebody, I can avoid it.

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## Bodsda

> A point I would like to make here is that while the Internet is a global entity, I would think that one should put a warning on the link to a screenshot that showed nudity.  When my son was eight he was surfing the net looking for some pokemon pics and desktop wallpaper.  He clicked on a link and got a large 1024 x 768 wallpaper popping up on his screen that was a collage of pokemon hentai.  Being mildly autistic (high functioning) he was shocked and so was I when I saw there was no warning as to the type of content.
> 
> While your first and second statement are correct for all, your third is simply an opinion.  It depends on where you are from.  If you go to France and some other European countries, the yes a woman showing her body off is perfectly allright.  But be prepared for some serious consequenses if you do the same thing in Iran, or Iraq.  
> 
> My main point here is that I think that a 'tasteful' nude pic is ok, but I would also wish to see some sort of warning on the link, so that if I don't wish to see a nude shot of somebody, I can avoid it.


This is a slightly touchy subject for me. I can fully understand why people may want to add 'nsfw' tags to links and things, but tbh, no one is going to take any notice of them and that would lead to people blocking websites based on these tags. But as said before, something acceptable in one country is not acceptable in another. So a 'nsfw' link in Iran might be perfectly acceptable for work in England but it would be blocked because someone with a different point of view tagged it.

I think the whole world is going overboard on the whole Political Correctness rubbish. For example, my girlfriend is taking a child care college course here in England and I was mortified to learn that the famous nersery rhyme "Bah Bah Black Sheep" has been banned due to 'racism' and replaced by "Bah Bah pink sheep." I fail to see how a sheep, that appears 'Black' can be racist. By dog is black, should I be arrested for saying I have a black dog?

I dont think employers should be worried about the employees stumbling upon images that are not suitable for work. As long as it was:

a) an accident
b) Reported asap
c) navigated away from

then there is no problem in my eyes. If someone does not wish to look at something, then it is there job to turn the other way. If someone is not allowed to look at something then they should not attempt to do so, but they should not be punished if they viewed such material by accident.

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## Jago6060

> Hmmmm, this is a problem in itself, people telling others that facts are undeniable! The earth is flat was an undeniable fact, the earth is in the centre of the universe was an undeniable fact, I could mention many more that are all equally ludicrous and were believed as much as you believe what your saying.
> 
>  Where do you draw the line? We had a case in Australia late last year where an "artist" had an exhibition in a reasonably well known gallery that contained nothing more than Playboy style shots of an 11 year old girl. Is that acceptable behaviour? The majority of people said no yet there were people making the same statements you are making here saying times are changing so we should change with them.
> 
> Says who? Actually if you look at political results around the world we are not progressing from the PC culture you mention, instead we are moving back to conservatism. If this is a good or bad thing I don't know yet.



--Something can be considered undeniable when its common sense given the current level of knowledge.  The existence of God was at one point, an undeniable fact, but it was because people didn't know any better.

--I wasn't really stating where to draw the line, I was just saying things are changing and we really can't stop them, only prolong them.  My generation is more liberal than my parents, and will be less liberal than my daughter's.  Its just kind of a fact of life.

--To assume that culture isn't progressing shows a severe level of denial.  I agree that certain aspects of society are beginning to revert, but as a whole, moving forward.  A prime example of the reversion is racism.  Even just in my life, I've seen tolerance of other races go completely down the drain.  I know more racists now than I ever have before, and I must say, its very disturbing to see so much hatred in this age.

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## t.rei

Dear Mal1958,

I understand the seriousness of presenting the contents of some sites of the internet to minors. Very many of the contents can be rather shocking and highly unsuited for children.

Stop and think about the simple phrase that the internet's combined information about politics, phantasie, news, war, suffering, porn, disgust, hate and lies is the right place to "look for pokemon pictures" and not expect to find something unpleasant.

What was that line? "If you walk though a lockerroom be prepared to see some ****." It's lame, I know, but there's some truth in it.

The internet does not contain any "child proof zone". Not even a "country proof zone" as much as china and germany and many more might want it to be. It's simply global. All the trash, all the hate, all the things you don't want to see are there. And also all the things you might want to see.

It beautifull and ugly at the same time.

A mirror to the global human interests. Those interests you wouldn't talk to your friends about. The unfiltered ugly nasty ones. 

I would never even think about letting my kids just "surf the internet" until they are ready to know why and what they are looking at. And yes, that means denying they childish curiosity some freedom.  :Sad:  

The internet contains material for children, but it's not a 'place' for them.

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## k3lt01

> --Something can be considered undeniable when its common sense given the current level of knowledge.  The existence of God was at one point, an undeniable fact, but it was because people didn't know any better.


I disagree, something can only be considered undeniable if there are no other theories/thoughts/ideas/assumptions to say otherwise. There will always be people who think differently to the majority. Many still say the existence of God is an undeniable fact, but we aren't allowed to discuss religion on Ubuntu forums so I shall go no further with that discussion. I also don't agree that just because people don't know any better means that everyone takes something as an undeniable fact.




> --I wasn't really stating where to draw the line, I was just saying things are changing and we really can't stop them, only prolong them.  My generation is more liberal than my parents, and will be less liberal than my daughter's.  Its just kind of a fact of life.


 But I was asking you where do you draw the line? What things are changing? this discussion was originally about respecting the rights of others not to be subject to something that society still labels as adult entertainment. Do you want to be subject to something your uncomfortable with or would you prefer a little bit of warning so you can make an informed choice as to your next step?




> --To assume that culture isn't progressing shows a severe level of denial.  I agree that certain aspects of society are beginning to revert, but as a whole, moving forward.  A prime example of the reversion is racism.  Even just in my life, I've seen tolerance of other races go completely down the drain.  I know more racists now than I ever have before, and I must say, its very disturbing to see so much hatred in this age.


Your first statement here is just plain wrong, I did not say culture isn't progressing. Some would define progress very differently to others. I guess to some the growing lack of respect towards others is a great leap forward but I don't think this is a good thing. Be very aware reversion of cultural practices is not progress, progress is simply a change to something new that enables people to feel a change for the "better". 200-300 years ago the Industrial Revolution was progress but look at the damage it has caused not only to society but to our planet as well. We have done more damage to our planet in 100 years using all the "good" things (like cars, power generation, nuclear devices of any sort, etc) our progressive culture has invented than has been done in any previous groups of equal generations or the entire Human race before this period. 10 days in October 1917, the Russian Revolution, was seen by many to be progress and many more people perceived this same event totally differently. Equally the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 was seen by many to be a new era of progress, but for 10-15 years many starved, suffered war and destitution etc because the new ways were not working.

The problem with "progress" is the term itself is very subjective.

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## paks.dreamer

> I would never even think about letting my kids just "surf the internet" until they are ready to know why and what they are looking at. And yes, that means denying they childish curiosity some freedom.


I wouldn't either, but you'd think people in an operating system community could be mature enough to respect others when they're nicely asked to (see OP), including the minors they supposedly welcome and protect in the TOS of those communities, by a simple warning.

All I see are are opinions and excuses as to why you guys are going to continue to disrespect others, and break the agreements you signed when you joined these communities.  OP didn't even ask for cease adult content, they asked for a warning -- seems typing four letters for the purpose of being thoughtful/respecting others, including children, is too much for some people.

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## paks.dreamer

> Laws are different in other countries


That's why websites have Terms/Conditions of Use/Service.  "one agrees with the terms under a written or spoken contract _to_ behave in certain ways" = legally binding.

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## k3lt01

> That's why websites have Terms/Conditions of Use/Service.  "one agrees with the terms under a written or spoken contract _to_ behave in certain ways" = legally binding.


Something that is legally binding under Common Law is most probably not legally binding under Sharia Law regardless of what the particular website says. You are bound by the laws of the country you are in, break Australian law while in Australia you'll get a slap on the wrist, break Sharia Law in western Pakistan eastern Afganistan your probably going to be dead or severely beaten for your little indiscretion. Break US copy right law in China or some parts of eastern Europe nothing will happen cause its not policed infact its encouraged and that is regardless of "terms of use" of any website/service anywhere around the world.

It really doesn't make any difference what a site has down when you come across it, what matters is how people interpret it. You seem to take things quite literally, which may or may not be correct, while I look at things differently. The cultural bias within the Ubuntu community appears to leans towards respect of an individual with a global setting (individual freedoms are ok but be careful of others feelings), although it is censored quite heavily, while the internet is all about the individual and how the individual can express themselves and it is not censored at all. Non-cyber reality is very different, what you do in the privacy of your own home is totally up to you but when it comes out into  the open then you are censored/congratulated for your behavior/actions.

I doubt any of the people here who have stated that nudity is ok would walk around nude in public, not just in recognised nudist/naturalist areas, yet in cyber space it seems it is totally ok.

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## Jago6060

> I disagree, something can only be considered undeniable if there are no other theories/thoughts/ideas/assumptions to say otherwise. There will always be people who think differently to the majority. Many still say the existence of God is an undeniable fact, but we aren't allowed to discuss religion on Ubuntu forums so I shall go no further with that discussion. I also don't agree that just because people don't know any better means that everyone takes something as an undeniable fact.
> 
>  But I was asking you where do you draw the line? What things are changing? this discussion was originally about respecting the rights of others not to be subject to something that society still labels as adult entertainment. Do you want to be subject to something your uncomfortable with or would you prefer a little bit of warning so you can make an informed choice as to your next step?
> 
> Your first statement here is just plain wrong, I did not say culture isn't progressing. Some would define progress very differently to others. I guess to some the growing lack of respect towards others is a great leap forward but I don't think this is a good thing. Be very aware reversion of cultural practices is not progress, progress is simply a change to something new that enables people to feel a change for the "better". 200-300 years ago the Industrial Revolution was progress but look at the damage it has caused not only to society but to our planet as well. We have done more damage to our planet in 100 years using all the "good" things (like cars, power generation, nuclear devices of any sort, etc) our progressive culture has invented than has been done in any previous groups of equal generations or the entire Human race before this period. 10 days in October 1917, the Russian Revolution, was seen by many to be progress and many more people perceived this same event totally differently. Equally the fall of the Berlin Wall in 1989 was seen by many to be a new era of progress, but for 10-15 years many starved, suffered war and destitution etc because the new ways were not working.
> 
> The problem with "progress" is the term itself is very subjective.



--Where to draw the line is really left up to society as a whole.  If people get fed up enough with the direction in which things are moving, they'll say so, and generally things will stop there.  I say "things" because as I'm sure you know, there are a million and one issues that this could apply to.  Advertising is a good one.  What is OK now was taboo 50 years ago.

--I understand that everything is left up to perspective.  If it wasn't, you and I wouldn't be having a conversation, haha.  The Holocaust is another example of what you're demonstrating: Progress to Nazis, *definitely* not progress to the jews.  

--I definitely agree with your view on the industrial revolution.  I'm not a super involved eco pusher, but it still pains me to know that we could've had electric cars many years ago instead of waiting until the world is on its knees, begging for help.

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## Wiebelhaus

I would be offended if my children saw pictures of peoples heads being blown off by shot guns or pictures of murderous dictators smiling with blood on their hands , not of the beautiful human form.

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## paks.dreamer

> I would be offended if my children saw pictures of peoples heads being blown off by shot guns or pictures of murderous dictators smiling with blood on their hands , not of the beautiful human form.


In some countries they train children to blow heads off and smile with blood on their hands.  Good luck getting people here here to care about that either.  Cause apparently they make up their own standards based on what they think and feel, and what other people might be doing in other countries, regardless of the TOS they signed up to or the clear finality of "keeping adult content away from children".

You guys are using the excuse "some countries are more liberal than ours" -- so where in your free & easy attitudes are you respecting the minors of countries that are *less* liberal, or your own country's children, or the other users here who have clearly expressed their discomfort?

And the original post wasn't worried about "the beautiful human form" -- they were worried about SEXUAL content, masturbation or suggestion of it, and lewd/crude adult comics, where even an adult felt uncomfortable or annoyed being confronted with it without a warning.  You guys keep saying "naked" as if that's the problem.  Sure, naked is natural.  Sexual content for the eyes of children is not.

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## k3lt01

> In some countries they train children to blow heads off and smile with blood on their hands.  Good luck getting people here here to care about that either.  *Cause apparently they make up their own standards based on what they think and feel, and what other people might be doing in other countries,* regardless of the TOS they signed up to or the clear finality of "keeping adult content away from children".


Was that aimed at me?

May I suggest you read the entire thread. I wont judge people based on my standards but I will discuss anything and everything within the bounds of what we are allowed to discuss.




> You guys are using the excuse "some countries are more liberal than ours" -- so where in your free & easy attitudes are you respecting the minors of countries that are *less* liberal, or your own country's children, or the other users here who have clearly expressed their discomfort?


paks, aren't you being judgmental here?

Lets discuss your apparent penchant for quoting the TOS (called CoC "Code of Conduct" in the Ubuntu Forums) and quote parts of it myself for your benefit.




> Posting to the Forums:
> 
> Section I - General Policy:
> 
> You agree not to post any *abusive, obscene, vulgar*, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated material or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing any of these may lead to you being temporarily or permanently banned from these forums (and your service provider may also be informed).
> 
> Posts which violate any part of this Code of Conduct may be edited or moved to a special holding area called "The Jail." Posts in The Jail are only visible to staff members and the original poster.


The relevance of this is that both you and I have had posts edited but my post was edited because I quoted you, so please don't judge others for their points of view while you yourself have broken the TOS you so eloquently refer to often.




> And the original post wasn't worried about "the beautiful human form" -- they were worried about SEXUAL content, masturbation or suggestion of it, and lewd/crude adult comics, where even an adult felt uncomfortable or annoyed being confronted with it without a warning.  You guys keep saying "naked" as if that's the problem.  Sure, naked is natural.  Sexual content for the eyes of children is not.


Farting is natural to but most people turn their noses if someone else does it  :Capital Razz: .

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## Little Bit

I'm not prudish when it comes to "the beautiful form" of the human body, but there are more appropriate places to celebrate that kind of beauty than in forums frequented by little kids. That is true no matter where you live. 

*Defending the "right" to post images that are inappropriate for kids without even the courtesy of a warning (sexual content, violence, whatever) is just inconsiderate and rude.* It forces people to miss out on lots of good stuff in order to avoid the risk of having their kids exposed to objectionable content. They shouldn't have to. 

The OP just made a simple request, hardly unreasonable. Maybe her request should be made to the Forum Management, to be added to the Code of Conduct to give it some "teeth."

Amy

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## paks.dreamer

> Was that aimed at me?


No.  If I wanted to "aim" or address someone specifically, I would have quoted.  I'm reading the thread and responding, like others.  tbh I hardly check the usernames in such a discussion, it's irrelevant unless I wanted to hold a personal feeling about it -- which I don't.  I've looked at yours now, though. ~hi, thanks for catching my notice~




> May I suggest you read the entire thread.


May I suggest you stop assuming.  I read the thread over once, and other parts of the thread more than once.  I found most of it was a waste of time, especially the personal banter posts that strayed off topic for the sake of being grating and opinionated towards others instead (like the one you just made me!). :]  There are personal messages for such things -- you won't be saving face by including me in this, so please don't waste my time again.  Honestly, even in my replying to this, I'm adding to the spam.  People who want to read the worthwhile content in the thread will now have to scroll past this tripe.  Good job.




> paks, aren't you being judgmental here?


Yes I was; I thought that was obvious.  I'll most likely continue to judge the sort of person who is careless around minors due to either making a statement against the people and its laws, or sheer personal laziness.  Most who have posted on this thread are being judgmental, save the few who simply stated how they would go about things, instead of arguing with others and quoting them for the purpose of negating their point of view.




> The relevance of this is that both you and I have had posts edited but my post was edited because I quoted you


I don't see how being "judgmental" is relevant to me having a post edited.  Unless you meant "hypocritical" (by being offensive when I am posting against offensiveness), which has an entirely different meaning, but also suggests that you do, in fact, realise what the TOS is, yet are still happy for people to break it when they see fit.

The entire block of text which was snipped contained the sentence "you know what the --- law is".

The missing word being the expletive attributive:


"bloody"


Here, I gave the word its own paragraph so you don't have to cut my entire block of text again.  How thoughtful of me. :]

Unnecessary use of the word, I agree.  A very soft offense imo, compared to posting soft porn to children.  :Very Happy:   Apparently people here can post **** and ***, but I can't say it. lawl. ;x

But if you're going to have a crack at me about "breaking TOS", at least know what you're doing it for.  Snipping the entire paragraph may have been within the bounds of the moderator, but was also petty.  The single word could have been removed to make a completely non-offensive statement.  To make it clear, I'm an adult, and I happen to have an interest in protecting children where I see fit.  I have my opinions, as you have yours.  I have no problem saying this, or even being removed for it if anyone felt the "need" to do so.  As I said, I'm here to learn and share about my operating system, and as a new user, certain attitudes here have already put me off -- que sera sera.

Just so you know, I won't be responding to this sort of post again.  My previous input was on topic, not some pointless, personal back-and-forth between strangers like most of the content of this ~entire thread~ which was apparently so important for me to read.

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## paks.dreamer

I agree with Little Bit entirely.

Except Little Bit, it's already part of the TOS/Code of Conduct.  Apparently the TOS holds no weight unless someone feels like it.

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## k3lt01

paks. if you have a gripe about moderation then deal with it. I personally think this place has its problems but all-in-all it runs smoothly.

As for all the "other stuff" you said, hmmmm. If my students behaved in that fashion they would be out of class till they learned how to behave in the way they are saying everyone else should. Yes, I deal with 5-18 year olds for a living.

Mods. feel free to delete any or all of this if you see fit.

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## Swagman

> That is an amazing picture! * Where did you get it?*  I doubt anyone would find it offensive since it doesn't appear to be a statement about Fawkes at all (the Thames has been drained, the parliament buildings are still largely intact and I'm pretty sure that's a car in the bottom right of the screen) but just a post-apocalyptic London cityscape.



I believe I got it from *HERE*

http://wall.alphacoders.com/wallpaper_categories.php

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