# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Specialised Support > Ubuntu Development Version >  Systemd experience - U cycle

## startas

So, who has already tried using systemd ? What difference does it make ?

----------


## Elfy

I've got a systemd vm and a systemd hardware install - I don't actually the hardware as much as this one - but I do use it, I've not actually noticed any differences in the way the system works and feels. 

At least it's easy in 14.10 - no mucking about with PPAs involved  :Smile:

----------


## zika

I'm using it on 14.04 from rhe very first day and it works like a clock...  :Wink:

----------


## Elfy

Swiss clock or 



?

 :Razz:

----------


## zika

> Swiss clock or 
> 
> 
> 
> ?


 :Wink: 
I did not peek inside, who knows...

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,
Its working perfectly for my limited needs. I think this is under heavy development so you shouldn't believe old posts on the subject. 



```
rrnbtter@rrnbtter-Satellite-L305:~$ cat /proc/1/comm
systemd

rrnbtter@rrnbtter-Satellite-L305:~$ systemctl list-units
UNIT                        LOAD   ACTIVE SUB       DESCRIPTION
proc-sys...t_misc.automount loaded active running   Arbitrary Executable File Fo
sys-devi...-sdb-sdb1.device loaded active plugged   Multi-Card
sys-devi...block-sdb.device loaded active plugged   Multi-Card
sys-devi...und-card0.device loaded active plugged   82801I (ICH9 Family) HD Audi
sys-devi...-net-eth0.device loaded active plugged   RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Expres
sys-devi...net-wlan0.device loaded active plugged   WLL3141 (Toshiba PA3613U-1MP
sys-devi...0-hci0:12.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000
sys-devi...ooth-hci0.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000
sys-devi...-sda-sda1.device loaded active plugged   WDC_WD5000BEVT-24A0RT0
sys-devi...-sda-sda2.device loaded active plugged   WDC_WD5000BEVT-24A0RT0
sys-devi...-sda-sda5.device loaded active plugged   WDC_WD5000BEVT-24A0RT0
sys-devi...-sda-sda6.device loaded active plugged   WDC_WD5000BEVT-24A0RT0
sys-devi...-sda-sda7.device loaded active plugged   WDC_WD5000BEVT-24A0RT0
sys-devi...block-sda.device loaded active plugged   WDC_WD5000BEVT-24A0RT0
sys-devi...block-sr0.device loaded active plugged   PIONEER_DVD-RW_DVRTD08A
sys-devi...tty-ttyS0.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS1.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS10.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS11.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS12.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS13.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS14.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS15.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS16.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS17.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS18.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS19.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS2.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS20.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS21.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS22.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS23.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS24.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS25.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS26.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS27.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS28.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS29.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS3.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS30.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ty-ttyS31.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS4.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS5.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS6.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS7.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS8.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...tty-ttyS9.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/platform/serial
sys-devi...ttyprintk.device loaded active plugged   /sys/devices/virtual/tty/tty
sys-module-fuse.device      loaded active plugged   /sys/module/fuse
sys-subs...ices-hci0.device loaded active plugged   /sys/subsystem/bluetooth/dev
sys-subs...s-hci0:12.device loaded active plugged   /sys/subsystem/bluetooth/dev
sys-subs...ices-eth0.device loaded active plugged   RTL8101E/RTL8102E PCI Expres
sys-subs...ces-wlan0.device loaded active plugged   WLL3141 (Toshiba PA3613U-1MP
-.mount                     loaded active mounted   /
boot.mount                  loaded active mounted   /boot
dev-hugepages.mount         loaded active mounted   Huge Pages File System
dev-mqueue.mount            loaded active mounted   POSIX Message Queue File Sys
home.mount                  loaded active mounted   /home
media-rr...microsd7g1.mount loaded active mounted   /media/rrnbtter/microsd7g1
proc-sys...infmt_misc.mount loaded active mounted   Arbitrary Executable File Fo
run-lock.mount              loaded active mounted   Lock Directory
run-user-1000-gvfs.mount    loaded active mounted   /run/user/1000/gvfs
run-user.mount              loaded active mounted   User Runtime Directory
sys-fs-f...onnections.mount loaded active mounted   FUSE Control File System
sys-kernel-debug.mount      loaded active mounted   Debug File System
cups.path                   loaded active waiting   CUPS Printer Service Spool
systemd-...ord-console.path loaded active waiting   Dispatch Password Requests t
systemd-...ssword-wall.path loaded active waiting   Forward Password Requests to
acpid.service               loaded active running   ACPI event daemon
apparmor.service            loaded active exited    LSB: AppArmor initialization
atd.service                 loaded active running   Deferred execution scheduler
avahi-daemon.service        loaded active running   Avahi mDNS/DNS-SD Stack
binfmt-support.service      loaded active exited    Enable support for additiona
bluetooth.service           loaded active running   Bluetooth service
brltty.service              loaded active running   Braille Device Support
clamav-freshclam.service    loaded active running   LSB: ClamAV virus database u
colord.service              loaded active running   Manage, Install and Generate
console-...em-start.service loaded active exited    Console System Startup Loggi
cups-browsed.service        loaded active running   Make remote CUPS printers av
dbus.service                loaded active running   D-Bus System Message Bus
debian-fixup.service        loaded active exited    Various fixups to make syste
dns-clean.service           loaded active exited    LSB: Cleans up any mess left
getty@tty1.service          loaded active running   Getty on tty1
grub-common.service         loaded active exited    LSB: Record successful boot 
kerneloops.service          loaded active running   LSB: Tool to automatically c
lightdm.service             loaded active running   Light Display Manager
ModemManager.service        loaded active running   Modem Manager
NetworkManager.service      loaded active running   Network Manager
ondemand.service            loaded active exited    LSB: Set the CPU Frequency S
polkitd.service             loaded active running   Authenticate and Authorize U
pppd-dns.service            loaded active exited    LSB: Restore resolv.conf if 
rc-local.service            loaded active exited    /etc/rc.local Compatibility
resolvconf.service          loaded active exited    Nameserver information manag
rsyslog.service             loaded active running   System Logging Service
rtkit-daemon.service        loaded active running   RealtimeKit Scheduling Polic
saned.service               loaded active exited    LSB: SANE network scanner se
spamassassin.service        loaded active exited    spamassassin.service
speech-dispatcher.service   loaded active exited    LSB: Speech Dispatcher
systemd-journald.service    loaded active running   Journal Service
systemd-logind.service      loaded active running   Login Service
systemd-...les-load.service loaded active exited    Load Kernel Modules
systemd-remount-fs.service  loaded active exited    Remount Root and Kernel File
systemd-sysctl.service      loaded active exited    Apply Kernel Variables
systemd-...etup-dev.service loaded active exited    Create static device nodes i
systemd-...es-setup.service loaded active exited    Recreate Volatile Files and 
systemd-...-trigger.service loaded active exited    udev Coldplug all Devices
systemd-udevd.service       loaded active running   udev Kernel Device Manager
systemd-...sessions.service loaded active exited    Permit User Sessions
udev-finish.service         loaded active exited    Copy rules generated while t
udisks2.service             loaded active running   Disk Manager
upower.service              loaded active running   Daemon for power management
virtualbox.service          loaded active exited    LSB: VirtualBox Linux kernel
whoopsie.service            loaded active running   crash report submission daem
wpa_supplicant.service      loaded active running   WPA supplicant
acpid.socket                loaded active running   ACPID Listen Socket
avahi-daemon.socket         loaded active listening Avahi mDNS/DNS-SD Stack Acti
cups.socket                 loaded active listening CUPS Printing Service Socket
dbus.socket                 loaded active running   D-Bus System Message Bus Soc
syslog.socket               loaded active running   Syslog Socket
systemd-initctl.socket      loaded active listening /dev/initctl Compatibility N
systemd-journald.socket     loaded active running   Journal Socket
systemd-shutdownd.socket    loaded active listening Delayed Shutdown Socket
systemd-...d-control.socket loaded active listening udev Control Socket
systemd-udevd-kernel.socket loaded active running   udev Kernel Socket
dev-sda5.swap               loaded active active    /dev/sda5
basic.target                loaded active active    Basic System
bluetooth.target            loaded active active    Bluetooth
cryptsetup.target           loaded active active    Encrypted Volumes
getty.target                loaded active active    Login Prompts
graphical.target            loaded active active    Graphical Interface
local-fs-pre.target         loaded active active    Local File Systems (Pre)
local-fs.target             loaded active active    Local File Systems
multi-user.target           loaded active active    Multi-User System
network.target              loaded active active    Network
nss-lookup.target           loaded active active    Host and Network Name Lookup
paths.target                loaded active active    Paths
remote-fs-pre.target        loaded active active    Remote File Systems (Pre)
remote-fs.target            loaded active active    Remote File Systems
sockets.target              loaded active active    Sockets
sound.target                loaded active active    Sound Card
swap.target                 loaded active active    Swap
sysinit.target              loaded active active    System Initialization
syslog.target               loaded active active    Syslog
timers.target               loaded active active    Timers
systemd-...iles-clean.timer loaded active waiting   Daily Cleanup of Temporary D

LOAD   = Reflects whether the unit definition was properly loaded.
ACTIVE = The high-level unit activation state, i.e. generalization of SUB.
SUB    = The low-level unit activation state, values depend on unit type.

145 loaded units listed. Pass --all to see loaded but inactive units, too.
To show all installed unit files use 'systemctl list-unit-files'.
lines 131-153/153 (END)
```

----------


## Gyokuro

Systemd is great - more details and fine grained but it's something new to learn as most of the time I had to manage upstart system (Ubuntu, RHEL6 - debian with sysv was easy but sometimes sysv-rc was really frustrating).

----------


## zika

> Greetings, 
> Its working perfectly for my limited needs. I think this is under heavy development so you shouldn't believe *old posts* on the subject.


What old posts in a thread one day old?
What old posts about peace of SW that we've started using (being available) very recently...?  :Wink:

----------


## grahammechanical

In Utopic if have seen updates to systemd packages and to upstart packages. Tell me when the switch over is complete and I may be able to give my user experience but the switch over should not be noticeable to the user, the general or ordinary user, that is.

----------


## zika

What is nice is the fact that SystemD works with 3.15, liquorix, libre-gnu-kernel, everything I've thrown into its hands...

----------


## Cavsfan

Now we can check for blame.  :Razz: 



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ systemd-analyze blame
          4.982s ModemManager.service
          4.795s NetworkManager.service
          4.607s console-setup.service
          4.166s accounts-daemon.service
          3.685s thermald.service
          3.681s avahi-daemon.service
          3.655s systemd-logind.service
          3.547s lightdm.service
          3.477s ufw.service
          3.249s apparmor.service
          3.174s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
          2.159s loadcpufreq.service
          1.829s rsyslog.service
          1.805s networking.service
          1.727s systemd-udev-settle.service
          1.590s systemd-fsck-root.service
          1.308s grub-common.service
          1.216s binfmt-support.service
          1.072s systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
          1.038s plymouth-read-write.service
           821ms systemd-modules-load.service
           695ms apport.service
           665ms lm-sensors.service
           569ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
           560ms resolvconf.service
           497ms ondemand.service
           476ms plymouth-start.service
           434ms dev-hugepages.mount
           420ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
           411ms upower.service
           410ms kmod-static-nodes.service
           364ms udisks2.service
           363ms dev-mqueue.mount
           351ms systemd-sysctl.service
           350ms polkitd.service
           327ms pppd-dns.service
           324ms saned.service
           294ms whoopsie.service
           285ms systemd-user-sessions.service
           240ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
           214ms systemd-journal-flush.service
           202ms user@111.service
           159ms systemd-update-utmp.service
           126ms colord.service
           116ms kerneloops.service
           110ms dns-clean.service
           110ms speech-dispatcher.service
            95ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
            77ms rtkit-daemon.service
            74ms alsa-restore.service
            66ms user@1000.service
            64ms systemd-udevd.service
            54ms systemd-random-seed.service
            41ms udev-finish.service
            38ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-e14dc02e\x2d6ea8\x2d4c95\x2db4d0\x2d9dc04d32294d.swap
            28ms rc-local.service
            24ms pulseaudio.service
            22ms systemd-remount-fs.service
             4ms cpufrequtils.service
             2ms run-lock.mount
             1ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
             1ms plymouth-quit-wait.service
             1ms run-user.mount
             1ms sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
             1ms lvm2.service
lines 6-65/65 (END)
```

It seemed a bit faster today after installing the 3.16.0-7-generic kernel.



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.352s (kernel) + 16.517s (userspace) = 20.870s
```

I wonder if that time includes the really long time bios takes to find my connected Fantom 1TB USB drive. 
I know if I disconnect that it boots several seconds faster than with it connected.

----------


## fjgaude

Oh what a night!



```
frank@flash:~$ systemd-analyze blame
          6.404s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
           325ms systemd-udev-settle.service
           273ms vboxdrv.service
           267ms console-setup.service
           130ms NetworkManager.service
           114ms lightdm.service
           100ms ModemManager.service
            84ms accounts-daemon.service
            78ms thermald.service
            78ms avahi-daemon.service
            72ms systemd-logind.service
            69ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2dlabel-BAKUP.service
            56ms apparmor.service
            53ms networking.service
            48ms systemd-fsck-root.service
            33ms grub-common.service
            32ms rtkit-daemon.service
            32ms systemd-modules-load.service
            30ms rsyslog.service
            26ms plymouth-start.service
            26ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
            25ms dev-mqueue.mount
            24ms kmod-static-nodes.service
            23ms colord.service
            22ms systemd-sysctl.service
            22ms dev-hugepages.mount
            22ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
            21ms udisks2.service
            20ms kerneloops.service
            18ms binfmt-support.service
            16ms lm-sensors.service
            15ms apport.service
            15ms user@1000.service
            11ms ondemand.service
            10ms plymouth-read-write.service
             9ms wpa_supplicant.service
             9ms polkitd.service
             9ms upower.service
             9ms alsa-restore.service
             9ms ufw.service
             9ms speech-dispatcher.service
             8ms pppd-dns.service
             7ms saned.service
             7ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
             7ms resolvconf.service
             6ms dns-clean.service
             5ms media-BAKUP.mount
             4ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
             4ms bluetooth.service
             4ms rc-local.service
             4ms systemd-journal-flush.service
             3ms run-user.mount
             2ms systemd-user-sessions.service
             2ms home-database.mount
             2ms pulseaudio.service
             2ms run-lock.mount
             2ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-4a924204\x2d3b8d\x2d4f6a\x2dbd0a\x2d8d26dd5
             2ms vboxweb-service.service
             2ms vboxballoonctrl-service.service
             1ms systemd-remount-fs.service
             1ms udev-finish.service
             1ms systemd-udevd.service
             1ms systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
             1ms whoopsie.service
             1ms systemd-update-utmp.service
             1ms plymouth-quit-wait.service
             1ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
             1ms systemd-backlight@backlight:acpi_video0.service
             1ms systemd-random-seed.service
           931us sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
           670us vboxautostart-service.service
           519us lvm2.service

frank@flash:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 1.200s (kernel) + 7.288s (userspace) = 8.488s
```

Oh what a night! The latest update brings things into focus, oh yea! That long wait at first is WiFi... I think direct LAN would be much faster. Will try it later as time permits.

----------


## fjgaude

Now, without WiFi, just LAN, we have a somewhat different story... does seem that things are changing now with the new kernel. My box quickness is really showing its stuff! <grin>



```
frank@flash:~$ systemd-analyze blame
          3.970s NetworkManager-wait-online.service
           469ms systemd-fsck-root.service
           320ms systemd-udev-settle.service
           276ms vboxdrv.service
           259ms console-setup.service
           136ms NetworkManager.service
           118ms lightdm.service
           105ms ModemManager.service
            90ms accounts-daemon.service
            78ms systemd-logind.service
            77ms avahi-daemon.service
            77ms thermald.service
            51ms apparmor.service
            50ms systemd-fsck@dev-disk-by\x2dlabel-BAKUP.service
            46ms networking.service
            39ms rsyslog.service
            35ms binfmt-support.service
            35ms grub-common.service
            33ms udisks2.service
            30ms systemd-modules-load.service
            30ms rtkit-daemon.service
            25ms plymouth-start.service
            23ms systemd-udev-trigger.service
            22ms dev-mqueue.mount
            21ms kmod-static-nodes.service
            20ms systemd-sysctl.service
            19ms dev-hugepages.mount
            19ms sys-kernel-debug.mount
            18ms lm-sensors.service
            17ms user@1000.service
            13ms apport.service
            12ms ondemand.service
            12ms upower.service
            11ms colord.service
            11ms plymouth-read-write.service
            10ms wpa_supplicant.service
            10ms media-BAKUP.mount
            10ms kerneloops.service
             9ms polkitd.service
             7ms proc-sys-fs-binfmt_misc.mount
             7ms speech-dispatcher.service
             7ms ufw.service
             7ms resolvconf.service
             7ms pppd-dns.service
             7ms alsa-restore.service
             6ms saned.service
             5ms whoopsie.service
             5ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup.service
             5ms dns-clean.service
             5ms systemd-tmpfiles-setup-dev.service
             4ms systemd-user-sessions.service
             4ms bluetooth.service
             3ms systemd-journal-flush.service
             2ms home-database.mount
             2ms pulseaudio.service
             2ms systemd-remount-fs.service
             2ms dev-disk-by\x2duuid-4a924204\x2d3b8d\x2d4f6a\x2dbd0a\x2d8d26dd5
             1ms systemd-backlight@backlight:acpi_video0.service
             1ms systemd-random-seed.service
             1ms systemd-localed.service
             1ms systemd-udevd.service
             1ms run-lock.mount
             1ms systemd-update-utmp.service
             1ms vboxautostart-service.service
             1ms vboxweb-service.service
             1ms vboxballoonctrl-service.service
             1ms rc-local.service
           918us systemd-update-utmp-runlevel.service
           865us run-user.mount
           836us sys-fs-fuse-connections.mount
           676us plymouth-quit-wait.service
           669us udev-finish.service
           558us lvm2.service

frank@flash:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 885ms (kernel) + 5.025s (userspace) = 5.911s
```

----------


## sammiev

Booting is faster but I never timed it but it is very noticeable.

My temperatures highs are lower than what I can remember for some time. 

It's a keeper.

----------


## craig10x

Just curious...systemd is not on by default in 14.04 is it?   I noticed it is installed on my 14.04 (when i check package manager) and i got updates for it today...that is why i was wondering...
Is it supposed to be on by default in 14.10?
And what does it do?  Thanks  :Very Happy:

----------


## Elfy

No it is not on by default in 14.10, I doubt if it will be in 15.04 either  :Wink:

----------


## Cavsfan

OK, I suspended it for an hour or more and it woke right up when I moved the mouse.
So, I guess it's good to go here.  :Wink:

----------


## craig10x

@elfy: LOL...yeah, typical canonical...you know, lightening speed development  :Wink:    thanks...i had a feeling that would be the case  :Very Happy:

----------


## Cavsfan

I've been booting Utopic with systemd and it has gotten much more stable and better IMO.
Even running Chromium with it's current problems everything is still looking good. 

I managed to be in it for 6 or more hours yesterday. No problems whatsoever.  :Wink:

----------


## craig10x

I am still curious...what exactly does systemd do? Or supposed to do?  :Wink:

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,




> I am still curious...what exactly does systemd do? Or supposed to do?


It may quite possibly go beyond any explaination that I can give. However, Systemd is a alternate system handler from Upstart or SysV Init. It handles all calls between the User INPUT (KB, Mouse, USB, BT, etc) including those given by scripts (terminal) and the command line but also processes such as startup and shutdown. Systemd is backward compatible with Upstart and SysV via scripts but may have a whole array of commands that don't interprete over to the other two systems hence a learning curve is going to occur. I have been using SystemD from the first post in this thread and have had no problems other than those related to the Systemd-shim that was causing crashes for a few days until they got all of the compatibility updates out. The shim is supposed to allow a smooth (as possible) transition between the current command set and systemd. It going to be default so it makes no sense to me not to use it, this being the Dev section.

----------


## craig10x

Thanks....a bit confusing to follow but i think i get it  :Wink:   :Very Happy:

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,
Some think that Canonical is switching to be consistant with the other Linux major players and particularly Daddy Debian. I think however it has more to do with the advantage they will have by not having to maintain their own (Cananical) system (Upstart) nor depending on SysV Init which may be having trouble keeping up with Unity 8 and other asperations. Due to it being used by Redhat and some other majors SystemD getting heavy support and maintainence. There is an element that doesn't like the switch, I suspect the same segment that bemoans the dropping or Gnome1, Grub1, and much of the small platform software and a few of the display softwares that have a lighter footprint. I personally think that Puppy Linux is doing a good job keeping those things alive and is mostly Ubuntu based although I don't know where they go after the next evolution to mir and U8. These are interesting times I think for myself since I like new ideas and love the Unity desktop plus everything else about Ubuntu and where it seem to be trying to go. I'm even willing to put up with an occasional Apport popup and live for the major crash which means a reinstall.

----------


## Cavsfan

Just got an update to systemd in the updates.



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libpam-systemd:amd64                                  208-8ubuntu1                               amd64        system and service manager - PAM module
ii  libsystemd-daemon0:amd64                              208-8ubuntu1                               amd64        systemd utility library
ii  libsystemd-journal0:amd64                             208-8ubuntu1                               amd64        systemd journal utility library
ii  libsystemd-login0:amd64                               208-8ubuntu1                               amd64        systemd login utility library
ii  systemd                                               208-8ubuntu1                               amd64        system and service manager
rc  systemd-services                                      204-5ubuntu20                              amd64        systemd runtime services
ii  systemd-shim                                          7-1                                        amd64        shim for systemd
```

Don't understand the deal with systemd-services though.



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ apt-cache policy systemd-services
systemd-services:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: (none)
  Version table:
     204-5ubuntu20 0
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
```

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,

Systemd services are in /etc/systemd/services. Their names are mostly self descriptive. In addition to the ones that are there, there are many more espcially for the server market. Basically any script called by systemctl would be considered a service, much as the bash script "echo hello world" would be a bash service that commands the console to display the text "hello world". It is a service because it keeps you from having to type it yourself. Systemd scripts are just more advanced than bash scripts in the way that grub2 scripts are more advanced than grub scripts. Probably more appropriate for the server market and the main reason that it was picked up by Redhat, Suse and the like. This could also be influenceing Cananical to make the switch since it is getting a much smaller part of the server market.

----------


## Cavsfan

Systemd on Utopic Mate 14.10 ==> about 4 seconds faster:



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.238s (kernel) + 12.647s (userspace) = 16.886s
```

----------


## zika

Anyone did this:

```
:~$ sudo apt-get install -s systemd-sysv
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  ubuntu-minimal upstart ureadahead
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  systemd-sysv
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 3 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
Remv ubuntu-minimal [1.325]
Remv ureadahead [0.100.0-16]
Remv upstart [1.13.2-0ubuntu1] [friendly-recovery:amd64 ]
Inst systemd-sysv (208-8ubuntu4 Ubuntu:14.10/utopic [amd64])
Conf systemd-sysv (208-8ubuntu4 Ubuntu:14.10/utopic [amd64])
```

...?
If the answer is "yes", what are pro's and what are con's...?
Too much depends still on upstart:

```
:~$ sudo apt-get purge -s upstart-bin libupstart1
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  libunity-core-6.0-9* libupstart1* ubuntu-desktop* unity* unity-lens-applications* unity-services* upstart-bin*
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 7 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
Purg ubuntu-desktop [1.325]
Purg unity [7.3.1+14.10.20140915-0ubuntu1]
Purg unity-lens-applications [7.1.0+13.10.20131011-0ubuntu2]
Purg libunity-core-6.0-9 [7.3.1+14.10.20140915-0ubuntu1]
Purg unity-services [7.3.1+14.10.20140915-0ubuntu1]
Purg libupstart1 [1.13.2-0ubuntu1]
Purg upstart-bin [1.13.2-0ubuntu1]
```

New (for me, not per se) machine, (S/H GA-870A) did not want to boot from fresh install of UU so I had to go through TT and I get:

```
:~$ systemd-analyze
Failed to issue method call: No such property 'FirmwareTimestampMonotonic'
```

Anyone else?
Since this is fresh install I've bit the bullet:

```
:~$ sudo apt-get install systemd-sysv
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  ubuntu-minimal upstart ureadahead
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  systemd-sysv
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 3 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
Need to get 8546 B of archives.
After this operation, 785 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] 
Get:1 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ utopic/universe systemd-sysv amd64 208-8ubuntu4 [8546 B]
Fetched 8546 B in 0s (15,3 kB/s)      
(Reading database ... 200677 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing ubuntu-minimal (1.325) ...
Removing ureadahead (0.100.0-16) ...
dpkg: upstart: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 friendly-recovery depends on upstart | systemd-sysv; however:
  Package upstart is to be removed.
  Package systemd-sysv is not installed.
Removing upstart (1.13.2-0ubuntu1) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.6.7.1-1) ...
Selecting previously unselected package systemd-sysv.
(Reading database ... 200629 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../systemd-sysv_208-8ubuntu4_amd64.deb ...
Unpacking systemd-sysv (208-8ubuntu4) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.6.7.1-1) ...
:~$ sudo apt-get install systemd-sysv
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
systemd-sysv is already the newest version.
```

... Next boot will show...  :Wink:  First, I'll see if I've got recovery mode anymore...  :Wink: 

I'm back with (almost) upstart-free install...  :Wink:  That was really fast and there were no interference of SystemD and UpStart messages as before... Ups, I forgot to check for recovery mode... Next time I do boot. Only nuisance I've noticed is

```
systemd[1]: /etc/mtab is not a symlink or not pointing to /proc/self/mounts. This is not supported anymore. Please make sure to replace this file by a symlink to avoid incorrect or misleading mount(8) output.
```

from dmesg... Nothing a simple

```
ln -s /proc/self/mounts /etc/mtab
```

could not solve, I suppose. It seems to work. Will dig deeper.



```
systemd-+-ModemManager-+-{gdbus}
        |              `-{gmain}
        |-NetworkManager-+-dhclient
        |                |-dnsmasq
        |                |-{NetworkManager}
        |                |-{gdbus}
        |                `-{gmain}
        |-accounts-daemon-+-{gdbus}
        |                 `-{gmain}
        |-agetty
        |-avahi-daemon---avahi-daemon
        |-colord-+-{gdbus}
        |        `-{gmain}
        |-cron
        |-cups-browsed
        |-dbus-daemon
        |-irqbalance
        |-kerneloops
        |-lightdm-+-Xorg---{Xorg}
        |         |-lightdm-+-upstart-+-at-spi-bus-laun-+-dbus-daemon
        |         |         |         |                 |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-at-spi2-registr---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-bamfdaemon-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |            |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |            `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-compiz-+-{compiz}
        |         |         |         |        |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |        |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |        |-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |        `-4*[{pool}]
        |         |         |         |-dbus-daemon
        |         |         |         |-dconf-service-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-evolution-calen-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{evolution-calen}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{pool}
        |         |         |         |-evolution-sourc-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-firefox-+-plugin-containe-+-{Chrome_ChildThr}
        |         |         |         |         |                 |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |         |                 |-9*[{plugin-containe}]
        |         |         |         |         |                 `-{threaded-ml}
        |         |         |         |         |-4*[{Analysis Helper}]
        |         |         |         |         |-{Cache I/O}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Cache2 I/O}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Cert Verify}
        |         |         |         |         |-{DNS Resolver #1}
        |         |         |         |         |-{DNS Resolver #5}
        |         |         |         |         |-3*[{DOM Worker}]
        |         |         |         |         |-{Gecko_IOThread}
        |         |         |         |         |-{HTML5 Parser}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Hang Monitor}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Image Scaler}
        |         |         |         |         |-{ImageDecoder #4}
        |         |         |         |         |-{ImageDecoder #5}
        |         |         |         |         |-{ImageDecoder #6}
        |         |         |         |         |-{JS Watchdog}
        |         |         |         |         |-{MediaManager}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Net Predictor}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Proxy R~olution}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Socket Thread}
        |         |         |         |         |-{Timer}
        |         |         |         |         |-{URL Classifier}
        |         |         |         |         |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |         |-{firefox}
        |         |         |         |         |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |         |-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |         |-{localStorage DB}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #1}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #2}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #3}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #4}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #5}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #6}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #7}
        |         |         |         |         |-{mozStorage #8}
        |         |         |         |         `-{mozStorage #9}
        |         |         |         |-gconfd-2
        |         |         |         |-gnome-keyring-d-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gnome-keyring-d}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{timer}
        |         |         |         |-gnome-session-+-deja-dup-monito-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |-nautilus-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |          |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |          `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |               |-nm-applet-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |           `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |-polkit-gnome-au-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |-telepathy-indic-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |-unity-fallback--+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |-update-notifier-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |               |-zeitgeist-datah-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               |                 |-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |               |                 `-4*[{pool}]
        |         |         |         |               |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |               |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |               `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-gnome-terminal-+-bash---pstree
        |         |         |         |                |-gnome-pty-helpe
        |         |         |         |                |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-gvfs-afc-volume-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gvfs-afc-volume}
        |         |         |         |-gvfs-gphoto2-vo---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-gvfs-mtp-volume---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-gvfs-udisks2-vo-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-gvfsd---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-gvfsd-burn---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-gvfsd-fuse-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |            |-{gvfs-fuse-sub}
        |         |         |         |            `-2*[{gvfsd-fuse}]
        |         |         |         |-gvfsd-trash-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |             `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-hud-service-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |             |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |             `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-ibus-daemon-+-ibus-dconf-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |             |            |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |             |            `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |             |-ibus-engine-sim-+-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |             |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |             |-ibus-ui-gtk3-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |             |              |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |             |              `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |             |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |             `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-ibus-x11-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |          |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |          `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-appli---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-bluet-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-datet-+-{cal-client-dbus}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{pool}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-keybo-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-messa-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-power-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-print-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-sessi-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-indicator-sound-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-mission-control-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-notify-osd-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |            `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-oneconf-service-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-pulseaudio-+-{alsa-sink-ALC89}
        |         |         |         |            |-{alsa-sink-HDMI }
        |         |         |         |            `-{alsa-source-ALC}
        |         |         |         |-unity-panel-ser-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-unity-scope-loa-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-unity-settings--+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gmain}
        |         |         |         |-unity-webapps-s-+-{dconf worker}
        |         |         |         |                 `-{gdbus}
        |         |         |         |-2*[upstart-dbus-br]
        |         |         |         |-upstart-event-b
        |         |         |         |-upstart-file-br
        |         |         |         |-window-stack-br
        |         |         |         |-zeitgeist-daemo---{gdbus}
        |         |         |         `-zeitgeist-fts-+-cat
        |         |         |                         |-{gdbus}
        |         |         |                         `-{gmain}
        |         |         `-{gdbus}
        |         |-{gdbus}
        |         `-{gmain}
        |-polkitd-+-{gdbus}
        |         `-{gmain}
        |-preload
        |-rsyslogd-+-{in:imklog}
        |          |-{in:imuxsock}
        |          `-{rs:main Q:Reg}
        |-rtkit-daemon---2*[{rtkit-daemon}]
        |-systemd---(sd-pam)
        |-systemd-journal
        |-systemd-logind
        |-systemd-udevd
        |-udisksd-+-{cleanup}
        |         |-{gdbus}
        |         |-{gmain}
        |         `-{probing-thread}
        |-upowerd-+-{gdbus}
        |         `-{gmain}
        `-whoopsie-+-{gdbus}
                   `-{gmain}
```

Update₁: Just one more glitch:

```
[    8.025206] systemd[1]: [/lib/systemd/system/friendly-recovery.service:14] Executable path is not absolute, ignoring: dmesg --console-off
```

----------


## zika

After using SystemD for a while in Utopic on my main machine I found it very good and nicely to control. Just grasping its syntax and it works like a charm.
I wrote about text not honored in kernel boot line

```
systemctl set-default multi-user.target
```

is its equaivalent.
To kill DM (stop GUI)(go to level 3)

```
systemctl isolate multi-user.target
```

and to start GUI again(got to level 5)

```
systemctl isolate graphical.target
```

To prevent service from starting

```
systemctl disable name_of_the.service
```

or equivalent of .override file (containing manual) in /etc/init

```
systemctl mask name_of_the.service
```

To enable readahead (if You're using preload, and ven if You're not) try this, You might be surprised, no guarantee and nothing promised)

```
systemctl enable systemd-readahead-collect.service
systemctl enable systemd-readahead-replay.service
```

and many other nice things. Not to mention known stuff with stop, start etc.
Very nice indeed.
Update₁: This is all used with upstart completely removed and systemd-sysv installed (ubuntu-minial, ureadahead and upstart removed, libupstart1 and upstart-bin still retained due to dependency of Unity and ubuntu-desktop upon them).
Update₂: For those used to old stuff, here is a nice list I've found today.
Update₃: Caveat: When using

```
systemctl set-default multi-user.target
```

on one Intel laptop I got stuck on black screen on boot. Solution was to go to recovery mode, root shell, and issue

```
systemctl set-default graphical.target
```

and all was back and OK. So, that's learning curve for me.  :Wink:

----------


## zika

> If you've not specifically edited grub (either at boot or by editing /etc/default/grub) then you will be booting with upstart. You can only boot with systemd by making changes.


With „clean“ grub file I've been booting in SystemD (looking at messages that either scroll in front of me or in log-file(s)) even before I've purged UPStart from install. Only remnant (now) of UPStart:

```
:~$ dpkg -l|grep upstart
ii  libupstart1:amd64                                     1.13.2-0ubuntu2
                            amd64        Upstart Client Library
ii  upstart-bin                                           1.13.2-0ubuntu2
                            amd64        event-based init daemon - essential binaries
```

----------


## Elfy

> how do i boot with upstart?


That's what this thread 'hijack' is about  :Smile: 




> Read this first..
> 
> http://askubuntu.com/questions/42091...t-with-systemd
> 
> Not about replacing upstart with systemd
> 
> Regards..





> With clean grub file I've been booting in SystemD (looking at messages that either scroll in front of me or in log-file(s)) even before I've purged UPStart from install. Only remnant (now) of UPStart:
> 
> ```
> :~$ dpkg -l|grep upstart
> ii  libupstart1:amd64                                     1.13.2-0ubuntu2
>                             amd64        Upstart Client Library
> ii  upstart-bin                                           1.13.2-0ubuntu2
>                             amd64        event-based init daemon - essential binaries
> ```


Nor this.

The long and short of it is - if you do NOTHING to a default *buntu installation - you boot upstart NOT systemd.

----------


## zika

> The long and short of it is - if you do NOTHING to a default *buntu installation - you boot upstart NOT systemd.


I've installed yesterday 14.10 daily on laptop (among others mine at workplace of mine) and... SystemD as far as I remember. Vanilla, first boot. I might be wrong, too fast in removing remnants of UPStart, but...
I'll check monday on next candidate for install.


> That's what this thread 'hijack' is about


Sorry, I did not notice change of person asking question(s). I was focused on the question per se and (as usual) not on the person posting it. Mea culpa.

----------


## Elfy

systemd packages are installed - as we all know, but systemd isn't being used - systemd-analyze shows that



I'm not that concerned about thread content in here, just more concerned that the user asking how to boot with upstart doesn't get confused by all the trees in the wood  :Wink: 

The answer to their query is as I said  :Smile: 

As long as you don't do anything to make an install boot with systemd - you aren't (at least not yet for anyone coming here during 15.04 or 15.10 or 16.04  :Capital Razz:  )

----------


## zika

```
:~$ systemd-analyze Startup finished in 4.465s (kernel) + 18.483s (userspace) = 22.948s
:~$ dpkg -l systemd*Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
| Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
|/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
||/ Name                                                  Version                         Architecture                    Description
+++-=====================================================-===============================-===============================-===============================================================================================================
ii  systemd                                               208-8ubuntu8                    amd64                           system and service manager
ii  systemd-gui                                           1:3-2                           all                             transitional package for systemd-ui
rc  systemd-services                                      204-5ubuntu20.7                 amd64                           systemd runtime services
ii  systemd-shim                                          8-1                             amd64                           shim for systemd
ii  systemd-sysv                                          208-8ubuntu8                    amd64                           system and service manager - SysV links
ii  systemd-ui                                            3-2                             amd64                           graphical frontend for systemd
```

New time(s) coming, pictures of Terminal...  :Wink:  systemd-service is virtual (dummy) package that is depreciated.
Yes, I did install systemd-sysv and purged upstart (in different order, of course) so I might be mislead i.e. I did not pay enough attention on first boot. What I'm sure is that it is SystemD (now) runing by default as it is the only candidate here.  :Wink: 
Over&out  :Whistle: 
Update₁: Forgot

```
:~$ cat /etc/default/grub|grep LINUX_DEFAULT
GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX_DEFAULT=""
```

 OK, that might be because I've cleaned machine(s) from UpStart...

----------


## Elfy

> ```
> :~$ systemd-analyze Startup finished in 4.465s (kernel) + 18.483s (userspace) = 22.948s
> :~$ dpkg -l systemd*Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold
> | Status=Not/Inst/Conf-files/Unpacked/halF-conf/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend
> |/ Err?=(none)/Reinst-required (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)
> ||/ Name                                                  Version                         Architecture                    Description
> +++-=====================================================-===============================-===============================-===============================================================================================================
> ii  systemd                                               208-8ubuntu8                    amd64                           system and service manager
> ii  systemd-gui                                           1:3-2                           all                             transitional package for systemd-ui
> ...


I'm talking about a default install zika  :Smile: 

Because I am as positive that systemd is NOT running from a vanilla install  :Wink: 

No need to over and out anything at all - we can always (at least I can) move posts to a new thread - probably a useful conversation to have 
given that _eventually_ systemd will be default ...

----------


## zika

> I'm talking about a default install zika 
> Because I am as positive that systemd is NOT running from a vanilla install


So was I but I'm, as I wrote twice, not sure if I did purge UpStart during that first uptime of that machine. Not sure if I watched first boot screen or was there splash to cloud my perception. To many machines installed in last few days/weeks. Luckily all with 14.10 despite some serious boot and install obstacles/hurdles to be jumpd over. But, nice experience and something new learned. I hope that is not due to early dementia that I do perceive some of that as learning...  :Wink: 



> No need to over and out anything at all - we can always (at least I can) move posts to a new thread - probably a useful conversation to have given that _eventually_ systemd will be default ...


If I were moderating I would merge split from here with http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2224798. I was just running from/out_of hijack-off-topic situation, nothing more and nothing less.  :Wink:

----------


## ventrical

> Because I am as positive that systemd is NOT running from a vanilla install


That's been the case here from day one. Early on I had thought it would be installed by default. Even Ubuntu-Desktop-next does not have systemd installed by default (but the packets are there).

----------


## Elfy

> ...
> If I were moderating I would merge split from here with http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2224798. I was just running from/out_of hijack-off-topic situation, nothing more and nothing less.


worked for me - some comments seem a little odd as they refer to http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2247949 but hey ho

----------


## zika

> hey ho


Ditto  :Wink:

----------


## ventrical

> In these „two more ways“ there is not any change in /atc/default/grub needed as I've written in a thread mentioned. Change back, as I wrote is a „simple“ (mind the caveat I explained) purge of systemd-sysv or install of upstart since devs have done a good job and those two simply do not coexist together but do ask for other one when removed.


Ok.. thank you . I have an extra system that I am going to try and experiment with that method on. I'll leave my results in that systemd appropiate forum.

 I installed 



```
systemd-sysv
```

and it auto removed upstart. I


```
sudo apt-get purge upstart
```

 just because.

  I edit the grub file at /etc/default/grub and restored it back to quiet splash.



```
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following extra packages will be installed:
  upstart
Suggested packages:
  graphviz upstart-monitor
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  systemd-sysv
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  upstart
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/111 kB of archives.
After this operation, 574 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
dpkg: systemd-sysv: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 friendly-recovery depends on upstart | systemd-sysv; however:
  Package upstart is not installed.
  Package systemd-sysv is to be removed.

(Reading database ... 537891 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing systemd-sysv (208-8ubuntu8) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-2) ...
Selecting previously unselected package upstart.
(Reading database ... 537875 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to unpack .../upstart_1.13.2-0ubuntu2_i386.deb ...
Unpacking upstart (1.13.2-0ubuntu2) ...
Processing triggers for man-db (2.7.0.2-2) ...
Processing triggers for dbus (1.8.8-1ubuntu2) ...
Setting up upstart (1.13.2-0ubuntu2) ...
Processing triggers for dbus (1.8.8-1ubuntu2) ...
ventrical@ventrical-desktop:~$
```

and you are right about devs doing good job.

edit

 The only caveat is that I had to edit out,



```
init=/lib/systemd/systemd
```

from grub menu. So it is very well automated.

----------


## Cavsfan

I have been booting exclusively with systemd for the most part.


```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ systemd-analyze
Startup finished in 4.485s (kernel) + 19.217s (userspace) = 23.703s
```



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libpam-systemd:amd64                                  208-8ubuntu8                               amd64        system and service manager - PAM module
ii  libsystemd-daemon0:amd64                              208-8ubuntu8                               amd64        systemd utility library
ii  libsystemd-journal0:amd64                             208-8ubuntu8                               amd64        systemd journal utility library
ii  libsystemd-login0:amd64                               208-8ubuntu8                               amd64        systemd login utility library
ii  systemd                                               208-8ubuntu8                               amd64        system and service manager
rc  systemd-services                                      204-5ubuntu20                              amd64        systemd runtime services
ii  systemd-shim                                          8-1                                        amd64        shim for systemd
```

I guess that is how I stumbled upon that bug about systemd getting the time 4 hours behind for US EST.
I just happened to boot with upstart and the time was right. Then I seen the bug fix was just for upstart.

----------


## zika

> I guess that is how I stumbled upon that bug about systemd getting the time 4 hours behind for US EST.
> I just happened to boot with upstart and the time was right. Then I seen the bug fix was just for upstart.


Comes Monday I will probably be another brick in that wall since laptop I've installed 14.10 on Friday (alongside Windows, just for testing, Windows will be erased no later that Tuesday) exibits the same behavior. Main reason why I did not erase Windows is to test thsi time conundrum. Yes, it jumps two hours (|UTC-MyTime|=2) on every boot or something like that, did not have enough time to investigate that yesterday. Ideal platform to check my suggestion on UTC switch etc. Stay tuned.  :Wink:  In proper thread, of course, just finishing off-topic here.

----------


## Cavsfan

Anyone running Utopic with systemd experiencing the 4 hour behind time problem sign on to this bug if it affects you.

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...x/+bug/1382208

It was fixed for Upstart but remains broken in systemd.

----------


## Elfy

Snip from a -release e-mail



> - Steady progress on the systemd transition, with a goal to
>    switch over in the first half of the cycle.

----------


## Cavsfan

> Snip from a -release e-mail





> - Steady progress on the systemd transition, with a goal to
>    switch over in the first half of the cycle.


Do you mean in Utopic Unicorn or Vivid Vervet systemd will become the default?

----------


## Elfy

ummm ... half way through the utopic cycle was about June  :Wink:

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,
I have been running Systemd since the first post in this thread and I have never had a problem with my time function.  Neither with Systemd nor Upstart. I have used Systemd most of the duration except for the few days that Systemd-shim was causing problems. FYI

----------


## Cavsfan

> ummm ... half way through the utopic cycle was about June


Hehe!  :Laughing:  Oh you meant developmental cycle? I thought you meant life cycle. That's a good thing as I put both options - Upstart and Systemd boot in my custom grub wiki.




> Greetings,
> I have been running Systemd since the first post in this thread and I have never had a problem with my time function.  Neither with Systemd nor Upstart. I have used Systemd most of the duration except for the few days that Systemd-shim was causing problems. FYI


You're not in US Eastern Standard Time then are you?  :Smile:

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,




> You're not in US Eastern Standard Time then are you?


Sure am!  If that time zone is excluded from the problem..... Sorry I missed your memo!  :Smile:   Guess I can close that chapter.

----------


## Cavsfan

> Greetings,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  Originally Posted by Cavsfan
> 
> ...


I just booted Utopic Mate with systemd and it displayed that systemd-fsck detected a 4 hour time difference and fixed it. 
So, apparently it is fixed. Good deal! I'll go back to using systemd exclusively myself.  :Smile: 

I remember EST being symlinked to another file when that problem initially occurred but can't find anything about it now. Oh well...

----------


## rrnbtter

Greetings,
@cavsfan, we just got a new systemd-shim in the downstream which could be the source of the fix. I've been getting continous updates which makes this interesting.

----------


## harry332

Interested to know how many of you have already upgraded your setup with the new systemd (v. 215).
Compared to the old one a new libsystemd0 has been introduced, while the rest of the libsystemd-* libraries are deprecated.
These are now transitional packages because other packages (like dbus, pulseaudio and policykit-1) still depend on them.

Systemd 215 is in the Vivid proposed repo now.

I use solely systemd: with systemd-sysv installed and upstart, cgmanager, libcgmanager0 and systemd-shim purged.

----------


## zika

> Interested to know how many of you have already upgraded your setup with the new systemd (v. 215).
> Compared to the old one a new libsystemd0 has been introduced, while the rest of the libsystemd-* libraries are deprecated.
> These are now transitional packages because other packages (like dbus, pulseaudio and policykit-1) still depend on them.
> Systemd 215 is in the Vivid proposed repo now.
> I use solely systemd: with systemd-sysv installed and upstart, cgmanager, libcgmanager0 and systemd-shim purged.


No UpStart here also but

```
:~$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  indicator-datetime systemd-shim ubuntu-desktop unity-control-center unity-control-center-signon webaccounts-extension-common xul-ext-webaccounts
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libsystemd0
The following packages will be upgraded:
  libpam-systemd libsystemd-daemon0 libsystemd-journal0 libsystemd-login0 libudev1 systemd systemd-sysv udev
8 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 7 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/3657 kB of archives.
After this operation, 1365 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.
```



```
libpam-systemd (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
libsystemd-daemon0 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
libsystemd-journal0 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
libsystemd-login0 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
libudev1 (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
systemd (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
systemd-sysv (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
udev (208-8ubuntu8 => 215-5ubuntu1)
```

a bit too much stuff to purge at this moment. It almost got me this morning, I've accepted dist-upgrade, aforementioned stuff was purged, but I managed to get it back before trouble could peak its head...  :Wink: 
Waiting for fog to clear, hopefully soon.In the meantime I've found a bit of nice reading, just to clear what is going on: http://ralph.soika.com/debian-jessie-systemd-shim/

----------


## harry332

> ... ...
> Waiting for fog to clear, hopefully soon.In the meantime I've found a bit of nice reading, just to clear what is going on: http://ralph.soika.com/debian-jessie-systemd-shim/


Right, the new systemd 215 will remove systemd-shim, which, after all was created because of upstart. Systemd does not use it.
However, if you already have removed upstart, you do not need systemd-shim either.
Just check that you have init=/lib/systemd/systemd in your kernel line.

Somebody told me that one can use the kernel line or systemd-sysv, but that both is not needed.
Well, if I remove the kernel line and have systemd-sysv installed, I do still get a kernel panic.
So at least my set up needs the kernel line there.

But about your link (ralph soika).
In my opinion gnome-shell does certainly not need systemd-shim, and at least in Ubuntu does not depend on it.

----------


## Elfy

Wondering if perhaps we might be better closing this thread and renaming it then starting a new one given that we're expecting systemd to land as default mid-cycle. It's likely to get unwieldy ...

----------


## zika

> Right, the new systemd 215 will remove systemd-shim, which, after all was created because of upstart. Systemd does not use it.
> However, if you already have removed upstart, you do not need systemd-shim either.
> Just check that you have init=/lib/systemd/systemd in your kernel line.


No, for weeks, now. UpStartfree and fully (as possible, of course) SystemD set.
About systemd:shim, I know I do not need it but I need some of those packages that would be purgedif I would upgrade to 21, that is all I'm writing.


```
indicator-datetime systemd-shim ubuntu-desktop unity-control-center unity-control-center-signon webaccounts-extension-common xul-ext-webaccounts
```


Just because of that I do wait.




> Somebody told me that one can use the kernel line or systemd-sysv, but that both is not needed.
> Well, if I remove the kernel line and have systemd-sysv installed, I do still get a kernel panic.
> So at least my set up needs the kernel line there.


I'm happy for quite some time with no-kernel line intervention and SystemD booting intself. Fast and nice.




> But about your link (ralph soika).
> In my opinion gnome-shell does certainly not need systemd-shim, and at least in Ubuntu does not depend on it.


I was not concerned (and still am not) with GS but it just helped me to put pieces together in this slow Saturday morning, noon or even afternoon now. Shopping, etc.

----------


## harry332

> No, for weeks, now. UpStartfree and fully (as possible, of course) SystemD set.
> About systemd:shim, I know I do not need it but I need some of those packages that would be purgedif I would upgrade to 21, that is all I'm writing.
> 
> 
> ```
> indicator-datetime systemd-shim ubuntu-desktop unity-control-center unity-control-center-signon webaccounts-extension-common xul-ext-webaccounts
> ```
> 
> 
> ...


Sure, there are packages that cannot cope with systemd-sysv, and thus they need systemd-shim.
Note, that if you do not have the "init=/lib/systemd/systemd" kernel line and you do not have systemd-sysv installed, you are not fully using systemd, but instead, you are using sysvinit. You are actually booting with sysvinit.
You see installing systemd-sysv (and removing systemd-shim) "provides the links needed for systemd to replace sysvinit. Installing systemd-sysv will overwrite /sbin/init with a link to systemd."
But like you said, you need to wait because of other packages.

----------


## Cavsfan

> Greetings,
> @cavsfan, we just got a new systemd-shim in the downstream which could be the source of the fix. I've been getting continous updates which makes this interesting.


I didn't notice that update but when I boot with systemd it shows that systend-fcsk (I believe that is the correct name) detects that the time is off by 4 hours possibly due to a BIOS setting and it says "corrected".

But, I just looked up and noticed the time shows to be off (behind) by 4 hours). This is after the 2nd boot. The first was with Upstart and the 2nd was with Systemd.

Hmmm... So, I don't know what is going on. It appeared to be fixed before.

This is in Utopic Mate after a fresh install from a final release ISO.



```
cavsfan@cavsfan-MS-7529:~$ dpkg -l | grep systemd
ii  libpam-systemd:amd64                        208-8ubuntu8                             amd64        system and service manager - PAM module
ii  libsystemd-daemon0:amd64                    208-8ubuntu8                             amd64        systemd utility library
ii  libsystemd-journal0:amd64                   208-8ubuntu8                             amd64        systemd journal utility library
ii  libsystemd-login0:amd64                     208-8ubuntu8                             amd64        systemd login utility library
ii  systemd                                     208-8ubuntu8                             amd64        system and service manager
ii  systemd-shim                                8-1                                      amd64        shim for systemd
```

----------


## Cavsfan

> Wondering if perhaps we might be better closing this thread and renaming it then starting a new one given that we're expecting systemd to land as default mid-cycle. It's likely to get unwieldy ...


Moving it would be a good idea out of the Vivid Vervet discussions as it pertains to Utopic as well. It's up to you though.  :Smile: 

I booted a 3rd time (1st upstart, 2nd systemd and 3rd systemd) and the time is still off (behind) by 4 hours. I don't understand.  :Confused:

----------


## Cavsfan

I'm pretty sure it's still broken.

The changelog does not show a fix:




> systemd-shim (8-1) unstable; urgency=medium
> 
>   * Update watch file.
>   * New upstream release.
>     - Drop patches cherry-picked from upstream.
>   * Add versioned dependency on cgmanager (>= 0.32) for new APIs.
> 
>  -- Steve Langasek <vorlon@debian.org>  Wed, 10 Sep 2014 15:51:34 +0000


Nor does the bug I filed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...x/+bug/1382208

----------


## cariboo

+1 to starting a new thread, seeing as we are now using Vivid. There is some good information i this thread, but if we keep it going as it is now, some the information may just get lost in all the noise.

----------


## Elfy

works for me  :Razz:

----------

