# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Specialised Support > System76 Support > [ubuntu] Meet the New System76 Laptops

## crichell

Hi Everyone,

Over the last few months we've been working to drive Ubuntu pre-loaded to a new level of quality and performance. I couldn't be more excited about the results. Today we released the new Darter Ultra and Pangolin Performance laptops.

We've moved to Intel's new Centrino 2 (Montevina) platform which enables faster processors, memory, and hard drives while reducing power consumption. On the graphics side we're now utilizing Intel's X4500 GPU and nVidia's latest 9000 series mobile graphics. I'm particularly pleased that we're able to bring the latest hardware technology to Ubuntu users. It's all thanks to amazing work throughout the Open Source Community.

Check out the new Darter @ http://system76.com/darter
and the new Pangolin @ http://system76.com/pangolin

As always we love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers,

Carl Richell
System76

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## phyzome

Can we get a nice photo of the new Pangolin keyboard? I'm a programmer, so the layout is pretty important to me. :-)

(It would be great to include that as a product shot in your online store.)

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## crichell

We have keyboard pics on the way... probably tomorrow.

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## nirvana21

Looks really good! That's excellent hardware for a laptop.

Will the Serval Performance be following suit soon? Judging by the others, a move to the Montevina platform would be expected. An option for a 320GB hard drive, a 9xxx series Nvidia card, finger print reader, and better accessory choices seem be precedented as well.

Is there any truth to this assumption?8)

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## abuakel

They all look fantastic! Keep up the great work. 
Just out of curiosity, will there be new Gazelle Value coming soon?.. Or a 13.3 inch?

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## Tart

I love my gazelle, but new darter looks soooooo sweet, I wish I waited for couple of months.

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## mobius357

Any chance the new Several will be a 17 inch?

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## thomasaaron

1. The Gazelle *probably* won't be coming back in this particular line-up.
2. Right now, it is looking like there may be a new Serval in a week or two.
3. We are working on introducing a 17". Still some things to get ironed out, though.

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## perce

The new Darter is so cheaper that the white Darter I bought last year  :Sad:  but at least mine is more beautiful...

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## phyzome

> We have keyboard pics on the way... probably tomorrow.


Great! I'm looking forward to that. :-)

I notice the new Pangolin Performance has space around the arrow keys, which is quite excellent. The old one looked pretty cramped.

Maybe you could include a keyboard shot by default for all laptops.  I have a feeling I'm not the only GNU/Linux user who has keyboard peeves. :-P

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## abuakel

The keyboard in the Darter Ultra 3 looks smaller when compared to the DarU2 one. Is it a full-sized keyboard, with the only difference in the 'Home' Pg Up' 'Pg Dn' and 'End' keys?

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## thomasaaron

It is the same size keyboard as was on the DarU1 and DarU2.

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## tssgery

The Pangolin Performance looks very tempting. 

My current Dell is giving up the ghost very quickly so I need a replacement as soon as possible.

I'm wondering if shipments of the Pangolin start on August 15th, would orders placed within the next day or two be shipped on the 15th or is there a backlog of items to go out which would delay orders a few more days?

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## thomasaaron

If you order right now, it should go out on the 15th or 16th.

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## ARhere

Sorry for thread Hijack, do you have any youtube reviews of your systems?  I like the Koala Mini!

-AR

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## thomasaaron

There are a lot of System76 reviews online:

http://www.google.com/search?q=syste...ient=firefox-a

And there are a few System76-related youtube videos, but I don't know of any specific to the Koala.

I thought this was interesting...
http://www.dawningvalley.com/2008/08...-counterparts/

But you would probably be better off posting a *new* thread asking about customers' experience with the Koala.

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## VOLKOV9

Having just bought a new Serval, I've just lived an instance of the following:

Fact| It is always better to wait two weeks to buy a laptop, since for the same price you'll be able to get the same thing, but much better.

The problem with this empirically demonstrated truth is that, by induction, it leads to:

Theorem| It is never good to buy a laptop.



...they look good.

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## arch_o_median

I'm quite pleased with mygazp3.  It is my tentative intent to purchase an open-source PDA/Cell-Phone/GPS unit in ~ one year's time.  I'm interested in the OpenMoko project's (http://www.openmoko.com) Neo Free Runner.  Given my satisfaction with system76 support and community I would pleased to discover that I could purchase an ubuntu installed system76 supported OS on a Free Runner.  Does system76 have any plans to move into this market?

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## liquidfunk

Sell them in the UK!!

 Then I can recommend them to friends!!

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## DomIncollingo

Are there any plans for a laptop that can hold 8 GB of RAM?

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## thomasaaron

Not that I know of. I'll pass that on to R&D, though. 

Just out of curiosity, what in the world do you need 8GB of RAM for in a notebook?

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## DomIncollingo

Pretty much for the same reason that you'd use that much memory in a desktop - to use it as a developer workstation replacement that can run multiple servers (JBoss, Glassfish, Tomcat, Apache, MySQL, Postgre, etc.) as well as desktop applications.  4 GB is certainly plenty for handling the load right now, but looking down the road say 6 months to a year......  It seems like many of these applications keep getting more memory hungry.  Thanks.

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## Tom--d

Hello, 

I was looking at the Koala Mini and really like it  :Smile: 

But do you ship to the UK?

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## abuakel

How many mega pixels does the DarU3 have?

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## thomasaaron

2.0 mega-pixel. Same with the Pangolin.

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## ARhere

I am looking to replace this old HP NX7000 soon.  I just moved to Denver and noticed your shop is in the area.  Do you have a sales floor where a customer can come in and touch some of your laptops, or is it production only?  (_I promise to wash my hands first_)

-AR

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## thomasaaron

Unfortunately, no. Our Denver office is used only for administrative stuff and some minor repairs. Our computers are manufactured and shipped from California.

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## ARhere

> Unfortunately, no. Our Denver office is used only for administrative stuff and some minor repairs. Our computers are manufactured and shipped from California.


Ah poop!

***comment removed***

I have seen the pictures on your web site but prefer to see one in person.  Are there any stores in Denver that carry one for customers to look at?

-AR

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## laserline

Hi,

I was wondering who is the manufacturer of the new Daru3 

Is it still an OEM from MSI or perhaps Gigabyte ?

If it's MSI, does that mean you solved the suspend problems with the Daru2 ?

Thanks,

Idan.

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## thebinaryblob

I just bought one of the new Pangolins today, I can't wait!  :Biggrin:

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## TheBuzzSaw

Is this the "daru3"?  :Smile:

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## thomasaaron

> Ah poop!
> 
> ***comment removed***
> 
> I have seen the pictures on your web site but prefer to see one in person. Are there any stores in Denver that carry one for customers to look at?


We have no brick and mortar storefronts. We just sell online at the moment. Dever is our administration office, and our computers usually ship from our manufacturing facility in California.




> Is this the "daru3"?


If you mean the Darter currently on our webiste, yes.

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## Nkosi

Hey guys, don't forget the lean budget people like me who love the gazelle line. It's lower price was *the* reason I was able to latch onto a laptop from system76. 

The higher performance/quality is always a great option for those who can afford it.

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## hrod beraht

> ...and the new Pangolin @ http://system76.com/pangolin


What are the capabilities added by the System76 Driver for the Pangolin Performance? It isn't yet mentioned on your driver wiki page.

Also, what does _'restore'_ actually mean for those computers that have that as the only entry? Anything different from just doing an install from a standard Ubuntu disc?

Thanks much for any info,
Bob

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## thomasaaron

[QUOTE]What are the capabilities added by the System76 Driver for the Pangolin Performance? It isn't yet mentioned on your driver wiki page.[/QUOTE

'twill be added soon.




> Also, what does 'restore' actually mean for those computers that have that as the only entry? Anything different from just doing an install from a standard Ubuntu disc?


You must be talking about one of the early machines. It will might add an application or two. It used to install gnucash and several other things.

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## hvacr

Will there be windows xp drivers available for the new Pangolin Performance systems.

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## thomasaaron

Yes. XP and Vista drivers would will be available.

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## hvacr

Any news on the new Serval, or any pics?

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## thomasaaron

It's coming. No pics or specs available yet. It's in the final stages of R&D, though. So it should be up within a week and a half... if not sooner.

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## NilsHG

Do you ship outside the US? (to Europe)
Where can I find info on that.

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## TIm Blokdijk

Yes, I will need two of those Pangolin laptops.
My address is:
Nieuwe Fellenoord 38
5612 KD Eindhoven
The Netherlands

Ow wait,...  :Sad:

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## flokason

> Yes, I will need two of those Pangolin laptops.
> My address is:
> Nieuwe Fellenoord 38
> 5612 KD Eindhoven
> The Netherlands
> 
> Ow wait,...


We are also 3 friends here in Iceland who despretly want System76
Currently just looking/waiting for someone we know who is going to the USA to pick them up for us.

Just hope that will be sometime on this year

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## thomasaaron

We do not currently ship outside of the Continental U.S. and Canada, as providing support is prohibitively difficult at the moment.

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## sbergman27

From your experience with the X4500 video, do you guys have any hints for those of us running the latest Intrepid on X4500?  It has the latest 2.4 driver, but only yields an unrecognizably corrupted screen for us.

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## thomasaaron

sbergman,

We've not done any testing yet with Intrepid on the x4500 computers. I had a great deal of trouble with it, though, on one of the pre-X3100 chipsets. So, I'm guessing that the Intel drivers for Intrepid are just not up to snuff yet.

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## Z_o-s-o

I see you guys are trying to rival apple in the "lets make everything F-ing expensive" catagory.  :Popcorn:

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## hashbaz12

> I see you guys are trying to rival apple in the "lets make everything F-ing expensive" catagory.


The expense comes from getting some of the better hardware offered in the laptop category. If you want a cheaper laptop, you get inferior hardware. You could say that System 76 has put their laptops in the "lets make everything F-ing" awesome for the price category. If you compare the specs on laptops in the same price range, it is clear that System 76 is offering a great deal for some great hardware. Not to mention that you get Ubuntu with most or all of the kinks worked out.

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## jbelmonte

Are there technical reasons why System76 does not offer a SSD option on the Darter? If I wanted to replace the HD that comes with the Darter with a SSD, would that cause problems and/or void the warranty? TIA for your reply.

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## thomasaaron

Installing an SSD would not void your warranty. 

We will probably offer them some time in the near future. I know R&D is playing with them.

Here's a good article on them...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive

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## calibre97

I have Kubuntu on an HP dv5035nr and would REALLY like a leaner, meaner machine. I had been looking at a Dell D430 which I'd slap Kubuntu on. The Darter Ultra is looking really nice, though. Is that the SD reader on the front with the ExpressCard slot on the left above the USB ports? Can you explain why 64-bit and are there any issues with that as there are with 64-bit Windows? (I'm assuming no but you never know). Would all the tricks and treats described throughout the 'verse for various things (like running VMWare which is how I maintain a Windows session just in case) work on a 64-bit Ubuntu the same as a 32-bit Ubuntu or must one search for that 64-bit goodness in any reply? Any possibility of offering a Kubuntu preload or are we left to ourselves to simply install KDE and there you go? What's your partition set up? I like to mess around with other distros and it'd be nice if things were already set up with spare partitions or at least one at the end.

My apologies for all the questions but I'd really rather support the likes of you than Dell and I want to know as much as possible about what I'd be getting myself into.

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## thomasaaron

> Is that the SD reader on the front with the ExpressCard slot on the left above the USB ports?


Yes on both counts




> Can you explain why 64-bit and are there any issues with that as there are with 64-bit Windows?


We resisted 64-bit for a long time. But now it is a very good OS. The only issues I know if is Flash (which works pretty darn well in 64-bit but is occasionally a little bit buggy) and java applets (we use the open source plugin which works on most applets but chokes on a select few). Plus 64-bit takes better advantage of our systems' 64-bit architecture.




> Would all the tricks and treats described throughout the 'verse for various things (like running VMWare which is how I maintain a Windows session just in case) work on a 64-bit Ubuntu the same as a 32-bit Ubuntu or must one search for that 64-bit goodness in any reply?


VMware and VirtualBox work fine on 64-bit.




> Any possibility of offering a Kubuntu preload or are we left to ourselves to simply install KDE and there you go?


For now, you'd have to install it yourself, as we do not support Kubuntu. There has been some talk of changing that soon. KDE4 is very nice.




> What's your partition set up? I like to mess around with other distros and it'd be nice if things were already set up with spare partitions or at least one at the end.


We set it up with boot, root, swap(1 x RAM) and the remainder as a separate home partition. We don't do customer setups, but you could shrink your home partition and install other OSes.

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## MorphWVUtuba

> Yes. XP and Vista drivers would will be available.


Is this also true of the Serval?

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## thomasaaron

> Is this also true of the Serval?


Yes. It is.

Every time I see your avatar, I get homesick.

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## calibre97

Thanks for the detailed response. I figured as much with the partitions but I'd like one clarification: you say the rest is a 'second' home partition...is it mapped to /home or just another partition? I would guess it's /home otherwise you'd have to come up with a name to mount it. Other than that, I'm saving up for one.

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## thomasaaron

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put 'second' in there. It was supposed to be 'separate'. I must have wrote that before my morning coffee.

I'll change it so nobody else sees it  :Wink:

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## hashbaz12

About the new Darter Ultra - is the intel x4500hd card capable of video out through the vga? Is there a way that I could connect it to a TV? 
Also, how does the upgrade process work? Can you upgrade to the newest version of Ubuntu when it comes out or will that mess up all of the drivers that System 76 has preinstalled?

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## sandalle

Awesome, I have finally found laptops I like (almost) everything on, _and_ they come with Linux!

A few questions:
 Will you be offering a 9-cell battery option? Will you be offering longer warranties (I usually select 4 year)? Will you be offering accident coverage warranties (I am now a father and fear what my child may wreak upon my nice new toy)? Will you be offering more video options (at least varying VRAM options)? Will you be offering payment plans (OAC, of course  :Wink: )? Will you be accepting other forms of payment (check, electronic check, bank routing/checking #, PayPal, etc.)? Will you be providing more details on the purchase customization page?
e.g. More than this:



> Wireless:
> 802.11 agn




Thanks, and keep up the good work.  :Smile:

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## Vadi

Wow, the new series is looking very nice.

Edit: as an existing system76 customer, I can definitely say that their service is top-notch.

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## OldDirtyTurtle

Any word on what the hardware platform for the new Serval Perf. will be?

I'm giddy with anticipation, and ready to spend some grant money!   :Cool:

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## schmindy

I bet you this is the new Serval.If I'm right, Carl adjust your pants like bill gates.

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## hvacr

Well, my new Pangolin is almost here. I have also been informed that duties on this laptop will cost me over $400.00 This laptop is not worth over $2000.00 I highly suggest that if you live in Canada, buy locally, as this is not fair at all. I am not saying this is System76 fault, but I think they should really warn customers that this is going to be very costly.

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## wrender

Does anyone know how the specifics of the taxes and duty works for ordering to Canada?

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## thomasaaron

Actually, we've never had a Canadian specify how much they've paid in duties, so that is news to us. Looking at your order, that comes to something like a 27% tax. Does that sound right?

Also, we've never had a Canadian customer complain about the duty amount, which makes me wonder if they are stiffing you. So if it looks too high, you might want to confirm with your customs office that they are calculating it correctly.

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## hvacr

> Actually, we've never had a Canadian specify how much they've paid in duties, so that is news to us. Looking at your order, that comes to something like a 27% tax. Does that sound right?
> 
> Also, we've never had a Canadian customer complain about the duty amount, which makes me wonder if they are stiffing you. So if it looks too high, you might want to confirm with your customs office that they are calculating it correctly.


Seems it's the way System76 tag this order. They tagged it as a data processing machine, which customs figure is a machine, not a laptop. This has thrown everyone in customers for a loop. I have been on the phone for over an hour dealing with this. Will post the outcome when I get it.  

Now I am getting a different story, this is nuts!!!!!


 I have called System76, and have spoken to them about the run around I am getting from DHL and customs. They are going to look into this situation for me.

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## gpstar

you should be paying only gst and pst (unless you live in alberta then no pst), there are no duties on computers here in Canada.





> Seems it's the way System76 tag this order. They tagged it as a data processing machine, which customs figure is a machine, not a laptop. This has thrown everyone in customers for a loop. I have been on the phone for over an hour dealing with this. Will post the outcome when I get it.  
> 
> Now I am getting a different story, this is nuts!!!!!
> 
> 
>  I have called System76, and have spoken to them about the run around I am getting from DHL and customs. They are going to look into this situation for me.

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## wrender

From what I have been reading it sounds like it goes like this:

notebook(As marked on the shipping slip) + Exchange rate + shipping (might cover brokerage fee, if not + Brokerage fee) + Duty (if not made/manufactured in US or Mexico) + Taxes (GST/PST/HST)

Duty is something around 14% which would then line up with your end cost which was around 27%

However if the laptop is under 10kg and is made in north America then there would be no duty. Only taxes relating to your province.

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## hvacr

> From what I have been reading it sounds like it goes like this:
> 
> notebook(As marked on the shipping slip) + Exchange rate + shipping (might cover brokerage fee, if not + Brokerage fee) + Duty (if not made/manufactured in US or Mexico) + Taxes (GST/PST/HST)
> 
> Duty is something around 14% which would then line up with your end cost which was around 27%
> 
> However if the laptop is under 10kg and is made in north America then there would be no duty. Only taxes relating to your province.


There should have been no duty charged on this at all. I have sorted the whole problem out now, and the new charges come to $210.00. This cover both gst and pst, and $7.00 process fee for DHL

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## Vadi

I'm in Canada and yeah, I had to pay duties also. I don't remember the amount however - I think it was $160 but I'm not sure.

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## wrender

Who/what number did you have to call to resolve the over charge? How are they dealing with it?

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## hvacr

This lady at DHL was supposed to fix this for me, but she has not. DHL seem to have no idea what to do, I have had so many conflicting answers from them, very frustrating.

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## hvacr

Finally picked up the laptop, got it home and unpacked. Did not like the fact that it still comes with a windows key, thought that was changed. Second complaint, I live in Canada, so English is our main language, why the heck is the laptop shipped with the default language as Spanish?

Other than that, the laptop is very nice.

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## Vadi

Windows key is useful for when you need to sell the laptop. Never know.

But my laptop came in English though. They must've messed up on yours  :Wink:

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## thomasaaron

It is not possible that your computer came configured with Spanish. All of our computers are imaged with an imaging server, which does not configure them with *any* language. Actually, when you go through the initial account set-up process when you first turn your computer on, the first option you are given is to select the language. So, I'm guessing you accidentally chose Spanish.

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## hvacr

> It is not possible that your computer came configured with Spanish. All of our computers are imaged with an imaging server, which does not configure them with *any* language. Actually, when you go through the initial account set-up process when you first turn your computer on, the first option you are given is to select the language. So, I'm guessing you accidentally chose Spanish.


Nope, I chose English for sure, as English is a long way from the spanish choice. 

Funny thing, only some of the menus were in English, some in Spanish.

Either way all is good.    :Smile:

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## advocatumdiaboli

I had a few questions about the 9-cell batteries, especially those being sold for the Pangolin and Gazelle laptops.

1. How much do they add to the overall weight of the machine?  

2. How significantly (if at all) do they stick out of the back/bottom of the machine?  

3. What is the expected increase in average battery life (this last question is of the greatest importance to me personally - I'm often working in random spots in a city where wireless Internet access is available, so I can get research done, but places to plug in my laptop and charge it are much more rare, so I may need to go for relatively long periods without being able to plug in)?

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## thomasaaron

> I had a few questions about the 9-cell batteries, especially those being sold for the Pangolin and Gazelle laptops.


Remember, these are for the PREVIOUS Pangolin, and we no longer carry the Gazelle.



```
1. How much do they add to the overall weight of the machine?
```

Not sure exactly, but probably five or six ounces.




> 2. How significantly (if at all) do they stick out of the back/bottom of the machine?


About 3/4" out of the back.




> 3. What is the expected increase in average battery life (this last question is of the greatest importance to me personally - I'm often working in random spots in a city where wireless Internet access is available, so I can get research done, but places to plug in my laptop and charge it are much more rare, so I may need to go for relatively long periods without being able to plug in)?


It gives probably an 1.5 - 2 hrs extra battery life on my GazV5. Depends somewhat on usage.

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## advocatumdiaboli

Thanks - I'm planning on buying a used Pangolin or Gazelle from a friend, and wanted to know how I could adapt it to my needs.  This helps a lot.  Incidentally, does system76 do any "certified used" laptop sales?  Just wondering...

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## thomasaaron

> and wanted to know how I could adapt it to my needs


What are your needs?




> does system76 do any "certified used" laptop sales


We do not.

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## larand

I'm pretty sure I'll be ordering a Pangolin as an early Christmas present, but just to be completely obsessive is there any chance of seeing what the top of the lid looks like before I order it? It's the one pic that doesn't seem to be on the Pangolin page.

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## starcannon

With only a $31.00 price difference on the "as pictured" models, and the lack of a decent vid card upgrade for the Darter, I think the Pangolin is the hands down winner. While the Darter is smaller and lighter, its still not in the sub-notebook range and in its size and weight it looks to me like it will be competing with notebooks like the Pangolin.

Overall, Pangolin looks like pretty decent bang for the buck, the Darter is not that appealing.

Just my .02, and at the rate of inflation I probably owe somebody change.

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## jdb

> With only a $31.00 price difference on the "as pictured" models, and the lack of a decent vid card upgrade for the Darter, I think the Pangolin is the hands down winner. While the Darter is smaller and lighter, its still not in the sub-notebook range and in its size and weight it looks to me like it will be competing with notebooks like the Pangolin.
> 
> Overall, Pangolin looks like pretty decent bang for the buck, the Darter is not that appealing.
> 
> Just my .02, and at the rate of inflation I probably owe somebody change.


It all depends what you're looking for.

I have a Daru2 & for me it is the perfect compromise.
Anything with a screen much smaller just wouldn't hack it, but this screen is big enough.
I have a shoulder case made for this size laptop & it's a whole lot easier to lug around than a bigger one.

It's always networked to my desktop when I'm home and doesn't take up much space on my desk.



jdb

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## Changturkey

Backlit keyboards, LED screens, touch media controls please!

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