# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Specialised Support > System76 Support >  Has the System76 build quality improved?

## WinterMadness

Its been years since I had a System76 laptop. I really enjoyed the hardware options. But I gotta say, the build quality was very bad. I really need a new laptop, and it needs to be able to run linux 100% 

Build quality issues I noticed:

1) Dead pixels on arrival. I know this *can* happen with other companies, but it simply never has with me.
2) Fingerprint reader that was generally useless
3) Bad ergonomics. Keys/touchpad buttons were hard to press down or the touchpad would be too easy to touch when typing etc.
4) Broken ram slot. I couldnt add more ram because it was shipped this way and never noticed until it was too late.
5) Overall flimsy design. I was always afraid that even the slightest touch would break it.

This is just off the top of my head.

I gave a very harsh review of S76 many years ago but if they fixed the build quality I might give them a second chance. Do you feel comfortable saying the physical build of the laptop is on par with Asus, Dell etc?

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## 2ndthief

I have 2 of their laptops,  a Galago and an Oryx pro. 

The Galago ( no longer available ) is a great machine, it is light and thin and easy to carry, that being said that makes it a bit flimsy. It has one really long hinge in the middle of the lid that allows some flex ( twist ) in the lid when opening. That being said it is an awesome laptop, I would put it up against any dell or hp system for build quality. It is my work machine and my daily driver for 8-10 hours a day. I recommend it 100% but they no longer offer it.

This is the reason that I purchased The Oryx, I loved the Galago I use for work so much I bough one for personal use. This one is aluminum. It is freakin' gorgeous and it is a beast. A battery eating beast. Full bright gaming you might get 2 hours out of the battery, but that is expected. This is a desktop replacement and I think that is is better then an ASUS ROG of the same size, spec. It just feels more solid. It does have a worthless fingerprint reader. This is due to S76 sourcing their laptops  from clevo. The reader is built into the middle of the trackpad buttons. Annoying that it is not operational, but not a deal breaker. It does bother me that a laptop of this price range does not have all features working but they do not actually advertise it on their site. In fact in the specs for security it only lists the kensington lock.

I personally am pleased with mine, both of them. The oryx is probably the best laptop I have ever owned, mac's included. I have not taken mine apart to see if there are issues on the inside. Your mileage may vary but I am really pleased with mine.

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## fallenshadow

@2ndtheif - Very jealous of the Oryx Pro. Looks like a truly amazing machine! 

To answer the question. I got a Galago Ultrapro late 2014. Everything was perfect out of the box and still is.  To be fair this laptop was riddled with issues, specially related to the keyboard which System 76 sent out free replacements. However, my build would have gone through all the issues and sorted them. So by the time I got mine it already ironed out all the issues.

The Galago is slim, light and powerful. Perfect laptop for me! If I had to mention something bad, I guess the screen has a bit too much flex for my liking. I wish it was a little more solid or that the back of the screen was made from metal instead of plastic. For the price I think more metal could have been used in the construction. The Oryx Pro certainly looks like a more solid piece of kit!

Checkout reviews first perhaps and maybe wait a while for them to iron out any issues on the first batch.

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## WinterMadness

I've decided to give System76 a second chance. Got my Gazelle 15' laptop today.

I have no complaints of the build quality. As far as I can tell its as good as any laptop Ive ever used.

The screen is nice, no dead pixels.
The mousepad is actually amazing. Out of all the laptops I've owned (Asus, HP and Dell mostly) this is actually the best. Strange, because S76 actually had a decent amount of complaints in this area... Well this time they got it right. 
The mouse buttons have no flaws. My panp7 forced me to press EXACTLY in the center or it wouldnt work. The mouse buttons work very nicely.
The keyboard feels great.

The only issues I have:
Speakers could be better. But then again this is a laptop we're talking about here. I don't think I've ever actually owned a laptop with good speakers.
Brightness and volume shouldnt be on function buttons. This is actually the biggest complaint I have and its not a big deal.

I used to be a HUGE System76 hater. But this laptop very much converted me. Glad I got it. System76 always had great hardware options, and thats ultimately what made me decide to go with it over something where I have less control and customization. Glad to see they fixed their biggest flaw.

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## fallenshadow

I'm happy to hear you got a nice laptop from them! To be honest im always tempted to buy more hardware from them. I love my Galago UltraPro so damn much and so many other System 76 machines look really nice! I think at some point I will at the very least get the Meerkat. It will be my next Desktop replacement I think. I admire the specs you can get for such a neat little machine! The Meerkat is so universal, I could use it as a dedicated media center, server or home PC. I may have to buy a few!  :Very Happy:

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## frogotronic

I've been using Dell laptops for a long time.  I just bought a System76 Lemur a couple of months ago.  I like it a lot, works really well.  My only complaint is that sometimes the video gets overheated and shuts the machine down (happened 3 times in the last month).  However, I do not believe this is System76's fault as this machine is using the SkyLake chipset which isn't truly and properly supported in Ubuntu 15.10 (kernel 4.2.x) - it will be fully supported in 16.04 (kernel 4.4.x; actually kernel >4.2).  

This is a very light & fast laptop - easy to use and works very well.  Good long battery life on machine - good for airports.

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## Flat Out

> I've decided to give System76 a second chance. Got my Gazelle 15' laptop today.
> 
> I have no complaints of the build quality. As far as I can tell its as good as any laptop Ive ever used.
> 
> The screen is nice, no dead pixels.
> The mousepad is actually amazing. Out of all the laptops I've owned (Asus, HP and Dell mostly) this is actually the best. Strange, because S76 actually had a decent amount of complaints in this area... Well this time they got it right. 
> The mouse buttons have no flaws. My panp7 forced me to press EXACTLY in the center or it wouldnt work. The mouse buttons work very nicely.
> The keyboard feels great.
> 
> ...


Which processor, memory and storage did you choose for your Gazelle?  I'm planning my purchase and would find that info useful.  Many thanks.

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## berk6

How is the trackpad on the Lemur? The Lemur looks like a good buy but it appears to have a small trackpad. Is this the case?

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## berk6

Sounds great man, you have changed my views on S76!

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## Collin_Tristan_OR

Sorry for long commentary, but wanted to share my experiences in detail, hopefully will help someone make an informed decision.

Had never previously purchased a System76 system, so cannot speak to past quality - however, just purchased a Lemur 6.  I could have gotten something with better quality, more power and features for less, but wanted to help support System76 because if we don't support companies which cater to Linux then there won't ever be any, or the ones that do will go out of business.  In short, root for the little guy.

I cannot say I am positively thrilled with the Lemur - I was replacing an old Dell Latitude 13 which I've had for almost 7 years and had come with Ubuntu pre-loaded.  Still have the Dell and love it to death, and the quality is far and away a million times better than the System76 system.  It had also cost a LOT of money back then.

That being said... the Lemur, for what it is, does run well, if but a bit flimsy, the construction, but I was not able to run my fav distro on it without having to go through hack-hell to make all the hardware work, hardware being the biggest issue, from big things like the wireless AC adapter (sizable hack to make that work) and little things like the function keys for brightness adjustments (and the normal hacks that typically work for that in GRUB config had zero effect).  I do that all the time anyway, figure out ways to make things work, and enjoy it - have always bought Dell in the past (for over a decade) and have RARELY been unable to get a piece of hardware to work, regardless the distro.  With the Lemur?  Well, I was looking for a laptop that I would not have to tinker with for a change, but it has turned out to be the biggest pain in the a** EVER... I like to use LMDE Mate, but there was so much to fix I just said uncle - that's insane... so rolled through a bunch of distros, and found the only ones where I did not have to fix a million things are Ubuntu - no surprise, since System76 tweaks their systems for Ubuntu.  Even yet, with Ubuntu proper, the unit ran SO HOT the track pad was uncomfortable to use, same with Ubuntu Mate.  No joke.  And also the display looked awful with these distros, whole DE was unappealing.  I was getting ready to send it back, being thoroughly disheartened, when I decided to give Xubuntu 16.04 a try - I don't like using distros with an Ubuntu base, but was getting desperate to make this thing work without having to go through tweak hell.  I don't want to have to recreate a million tweaks and fixes should I decide to do a clean install somewhere down the road (which I do like to do).  Xubuntu saved the day - forgot how much I loved XFCE, used to use it extensively in the past until Linux Mint Debian Mate came along.

With Xubuntu, the Lemur runs cool as a cucumber, so my fingers don't get toasted on the trackpad.  Get about 4 hours battery life, which isn't great, more if I don't run any resource intensive apps, but the battery is still new, of course.  All the hardware works *out of the box* with Xubuntu 16.04, did not have to hack anything except the lightdm greeter to block user name/list and guest session - and normally, I just boot to a TTY and then startx, but for some reason with the Lemur, if I don't login through lightdm, then suspend is not an option in power management for any of the settings, either on AC or on battery.  That kind of blew my mind, but I can live with it if I have to log in using lightdm to get that.  Don't really care about figuring that out, the laptop I don't use for work, just for pleasure.  Anything else with Xubuntu was easily tweaked using XFCE gui's.  The only thing I've been struggling with that I can't seem to tweak is TTY resolution - but I can live with that if I can't find a tweak that works.  And resolution on login screen is wrong, way too small, but after logging in it does reflect my prefered resolution, any fix attempts thus far have failed, but the login window settings in Xubuntu allow me to change the font size on lightdm login screen, so that's good enough for me.

The only thing I can say that is a big disappointment with the Lemur is the lack of BIOS settings - not a heck of a lot of settings in there... with Dell BIOS there are always a million settings to futz about with... the Lemur's BIOS is a desert by comparison.

The Lemur is a light laptop, and so a bit flimsy, but seems durable enough and I just bought the base model, no frills or anything.  Not sure about the wireless AC, I did not see any difference in AC vs N for speed.  Don't really care much about the wireless AC, though, and didn't really expect it to work, to be honest.  N speeds are fine for my needs anyway.  I enabled the wireless AC on my router to test it - the wireless AC is rated for 433 Mbps max on the Lemur, which is what I got with AC enabled for my router, but I get approx that rate anyway with N on the Lemur so disabled AC on my router and went back to N only.

So, in conclusion - not thrilled to death with the Lemur, but don't hate it, either, I do like it (we've been through a lot together so far, feels like an old friend already, lol), its a decent laptop and I'm helping to support a company who caters to the Linux crowd, so I feel good about that.  And it fits in the same backpack I have for my Dell Latitude 13, so didn't have to buy a new backpack for it at least, lol... saved money there... lol...

*** UPDATE ***

After having countless issues with wifi, I decided to return the Lemur.  There was just far too much I had to tweak and fix to get it running to where I could live with the laptop and not be unhappy, and the constantly dropping wifi connection was the straw that broke the camel's back.  They *say* they have a full 30 day money back guarantee, but what they DON'T tell you is that they won't refund shipping cost, which is not SO unusual, but they won't issue a pickup for return, you have to pay for shipping BOTH ways, so it was an expensive lesson for me, $80 round trip.  So, if you want to try System76, and don't like what you've bought and want to return it, just be aware you'll be out about $80 for that round trip ticket....

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## jlh68

My Lemur5 has done great.  Updated from 15.04 ->15.10 -> 16.04LTS without problems.  I opted for the SSD and I usually get 8 to 9+ hours on a charge even running WiFi.  Everything works on it, except I have a Bluetooth connection problem with one of my BT speakers.  BT headphones and other BT speaker connect OK.

I do have some cons with the case;  My trackpad and trackpad buttons and the area under my left hand have lost the silver finish and are showing black.The right side is just now starting to loose the silver finish.  This is unsightly and the finish should have been more durable or black from the get-go.I find the dark blue FN keys hard to read, so I had to use a label maker and place above the keys what the FN action is.

System76 said that the FN-F7 had no function, but it does, it toggles between the second monitor and the laptop screen, just like it would in that other OS-*******.  I reassigned the volume control from the  FN keys to the up and down arrows preceded by the Ubuntu (super) key.

I also think the case is slightly flimsy.  I wish I could find a "skin" to cover the keys to protect them from dirt, dust, and other debris.  

Other than the above I think it is a great computer.  Oh by the way, I have gotten great technical support from System76.  In some cases I have helped educate them on their computer.

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## Linuxisfast

I have been a die hard ThinkPad user but my next laptops in future will be System 76 only, Bonobo to start with, its built sold, better than my T and X series ThinkPads.

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## johndoe32

My Lemur6 is okay, but I think I could have gotten a better laptop for the same price I paid, if not cheaper, if I continued with my habit of purchasing from Dell or Lenovo. 

The battery that it came with doesn't hold up very well, making up to about 3 hours of continuous use from just Firefox and Thunderbird. I've managed to squeak out a little more time by setting more aggressive power saving settings, such as changing the additional storage drive spin down time, keeping blutooth off, sleep settings and display dimming after a short period of idleness (which works well as it will come right up without much delay), and reducing unnecessary processes where need be. I have an old Dell latitude, still with the stock battery from 5 years ago, that lasts much longer (I often see 4 hours from it, and I typically run a VM on it too) with less aggressive power saving settings. Both systems using Ubuntu 16.04 with GNOME 3.

Build quality is about on the level from what I would find by Dell or HP. The additional storage drive obviously didn't fit since I can see an ever so slight bulge beside the touch pad where it sits, but it isn't distracting. The surface lid plastic is very easily scratched if you're holding it while wearing a watch, or if you wear a suit that has a cuff button. 

A few things that really stood out to me was the 1080p IPS display, and the separated Headphone and MIC ports.
I had no problems when setting up Ubuntu 16.04 on it. All of the function media keys work, and I like being able to switch the display off (didn't have that on my Dell laptop!)
The SSD works perfectly fast and had zero issue setting up the extra storage drive. 

In fact, I've had NO issues what so ever when setting up Ubuntu 16.04 on here. It works perfectly, laptop temperatures are fine, and there doesn't seem to be any issues with the trackpad. Setting up my Dell laptop has always been a bit of a chore, so this is a breath of fresh air.
While this laptop works splendid, at the end of the day, I don't think it was really worth the $860+ that I had spent on this, but I would like to support a vendor that openly supports Linux.

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## pfeiffers

I purchased an all in one sable from system76 and i am really enjoying the computer. The Ubuntu user interface is the most friendly of any computer i have ever used. Great Product guys, thanks.

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## dgarrick2

All I can offer is my 'first time' user experience.   My first and current System76  system is a Kudu Pro that I've had since Jul-2015.   It's been golden for me.  They only issue I've ever had was not a hardware issue but an upgrade issue when we moved to Ubuntu 16.04.   I use the laptop for recording (studio and remote) and it has logged a boat load of trouble free hours for me.   I'm a big fan.

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## T1Oracle

Where are people getting this idea that Dell is cheaper? Every Dell 3520 I've priced costs more than a comparable Lemur.

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## sfeole

So has anyone purchases one of the recent Gazelles?   It's either that or a Lenovo.  I just wanted to get some input from current owners. I currently have a Lenovo T430 but was a prior Pangolin P7 owner years ago and really enjoyed it.

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## jlh68

My Blue Tooth problems have corrected them selves.  I don't know it it was an application update or what, but now BT connects easily.  All of my BT devices will connect without a hitch.  That has made BT speakers and earphones and even my cell phone work great with my Lemur5. I am still getting 8-9 hours with WiFi in operation. So I continue to believe my Lemur5 is a great laptop.

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