# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Other Discussion and Support > Ubuntu Women >  Respect for all users.

## arctic

hmmm... yes, we still need some applications for "joe average" to make his/her birthday-card dream come true. windows users have lots of options. linux users need to work with scribus, inkscape and similar apps. none of them are for the noob.  :Very Happy: 

i found that a simple way to make my desktop-experience more enjoyable is to push all apps, pagers etc to the top taskbar and shrink it to 20 pixels, thus freeing more desktop space for my design-work.

another thing is creating a desktop theme that you actually like for months (colors, wallpaper, icons) and create a gdm theme that matches the desktop theme. having a consistent looking desktop is way better than having a mix of themes (which will frustrate you sooner or later).

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## kassetra

> hmmm... yes, we still need some applications for "joe average" to make his/her birthday-card dream come true. windows users have lots of options. linux users need to work with scribus, inkscape and similar apps. none of them are for the noob.


First of all, I find it somewhat rude to suggest that only average, unidentifiable hordes of computer-illiterate people use simple publication programs because their dream is to make personalized greeting cards.  Please remember than when you refer to computer users en masse in such terms you are denigrating the Linux community.

I am a perfectly comfortable Linux user, capable of using Scribus, Inkscape, et al. and *I* would like a simple publication application.  

I don't want a full-blown graphics creation package, nor a nuts & bolts design and layout application to use just to make a simple greeting card.

My suggestions for making a better Ubuntu desktop are meant to encourage people to look for new avenues of Linux growth, and not to elicit negative comments regarding the majority of people using Windows.

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## arctic

> First of all, I find it somewhat rude to suggest that only average, unidentifiable hordes of computer-illiterate people use simple publication programs because their dream is to make personalized greeting cards. Please remember than when you refer to computer users en masse in such terms you are denigrating the Linux community.


 oh oh... i think you misunderstood what i wanted to say. okay, second try.
when referring to "noobs" i did not mean newcomers to linux in general, but newcomers to graphic-design. why? well, how should someone, who never worked with something like inkscape, quark-x-press, adobe illustrator or any other "advanced" graphic application succeed in his effort to create a nice-looking birthday card? i have seen too many people failing there miserably. so these users, who actually have not used design-applications or have little knowledge of them would prefer an easy to use app for just this task.
but i never (!) said that these apps should not be used by advanced "graphic-apps" users. personally, as i work day in and day out with quark, corel, illustrator etc, i prefer working with these high class apps because the results are more satisfying and everything can be done a whole lot faster if you know how the apps work.
so while i personally would never need some easy-to-use card-designers (like the old Microsoft Works or Publisher), i would never say that they are only useful for beginners. i mereley pointed out that the other alternatives, like using scribus result in more frustration for joe average. sorry, if you find this rude again, but it is a fact.

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## kassetra

> oh oh... i think you misunderstood what i wanted to say. okay, second try.
> 
>  personally, as i work day in and day out with quark, corel, illustrator etc, i prefer working with these high class apps because the results are more satisfying and everything can be done a whole lot faster if you know how the apps work.
> so while i personally would never need some easy-to-use card-designers (like the old Microsoft Works or Publisher), i would never say that they are only useful for beginners. i mereley pointed out that the other alternatives, like using scribus result in more frustration for joe average. sorry, if you find this rude again, but it is a fact.


No, I did not misunderstand you; not even in the slightest.

I have been in the graphic design business fifteen years.  I can make a greeting card using just about any high *END* graphics/design/layout package you can imagine in just a few minutes - it's just that I prefer NOT to many times.

You have misunderstood *ME* it would seem.

I suggested a simple publication application - not because users are frustrated by other applications, but because, in this case, a specialized application works much better.

One final note, I will not tolerate stereotyping non-Linux users as "joe average."  Please keep your comments respectful of all people.

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## arctic

> One final note, I will not tolerate stereotyping non-Linux users as "joe average." Please keep your comments respectful of all people.


i never did that and i was never offensive to anyone.   :Shame on you:  
and... what about "freedom of speech"? it slowly get the impression that some people do not value such things... you have your opinion, i have mine. please respect that.   :Wink:

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## poofyhairguy

> what about "freedom of speech"?


That is only given by the U.S. government, not private entitees (like this forum). Personally though I agree that Joe Average is a little better than what is normally used for a generic male name - "Jon Smith"- but that is only because it is my own name!

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## Stormy Eyes

> One final note, I will not tolerate stereotyping non-Linux users as "joe average."  Please keep your comments respectful of all people.


What's the beef with 'Joe Average'? It's certainly better than 'J. Random Luser', isn't it? Granted, I don't use 'Joe Average' myself, preferring just 'J. Random'.

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## kassetra

> i never did that and i was never offensive to anyone.  [img]images/smilies/eusa_naughty.gif[/img]





> yes, we still need some applications for "joe average" to make his/her birthday-card dream come true.


As far as I am concerned, if my Sister-in-law were to come to these forums looking in the Women's forums for things such as a "card-making program" and saw that comment, she would be offended - as she should be.  The implications and connotations of your statement are offensive, which is why I issued you a warning.  Now, you can either continue to question my observation of your statement, or you can understand a wider perspective of your comment.

Stormy / Poofy - 
In both of your examples, you did not use sarcastic/offensive language.

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## poofyhairguy

> Stormy / Poofy - 
> In both of your examples, you did not use sarcastic/offensive language.


I get it. It was the tone.

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