# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Specialised Support > System76 Support >  Inevitable question, battery life on the Galago?

## inof8or

The biggest gripe about my laptop is that I can't take it off the chord. I need less time off the grid now because I have a fancy smartphone to do somethings but the 1.5 hours that my panp5 gives me is still no good. Is this really something I can bring with me? 

so Ballpark numbers on a scale from Power saving nut, to average, to power user, whats battery life on the Galago?

----------


## Leslie Dorner

4 hours according to System76 on their Twitter handle.

----------


## inof8or

Only 4! Still...Thought it had the fanciest new power saving chip? Disappointing.. My gf's laptop gets 6-9 with mint...

4 is not bad though considering I have a smartphone too... I guess..

----------


## Leslie Dorner

Remember, it's got the new Intel 4th generation Haswell Core i7-4750HQ which is a QUAD-CORE CPU with an additional 4 HyperThreads! 4 hours for Quad-Core in a less than 3.8 pound chassis is pretty decent by today's standards.

----------


## inof8or

Performance doesn't mater to most folks anymore. pre-2007 is long over. The percentage of people that need to cross the threshold to that type of power would be better off with a desktop or a macbook pro.  

Most have different comparison standards
A nexus 10 has twice the resolution and battery life, weighs less, runs linux and its only $400 sans the keyboard.
It does mostly everything that I need a computer to do. It does't matter that it is in a different product category if it achieves the same basic goal of portable computing. This is how muggles see it and quite frankly some of the wizards see it that way too.
The only thing that will put laptops into general consumer consideration is battery life.
If the use case is "I need power, a keyboard, and I don't mind being tethered to the wall" than I'm far more likely to consider a desktop. This is more true now than 3 years ago when other portable computing options were sparse.  Today's standards have nothing to do with moores law anymore. Its has to do with how the needs and problems are met and solved. 

I would argue that it never had anything to do with moores law but that's another story.

----------


## leecheroflife

To be honest, The 4 hours doesn't bother me much. I can't really think of any time I would be away from a power source whilst using a laptop for 4 hours.

----------


## Leslie Dorner

So don't buy a System76 laptop. Get a desktop. Better yet, get a tablet and go to a tablet forum while keeping your comments to yourself. This is the official System76 sub-forum. This is also the Ubuntu Forums.

Laptops and especially desktops are still the choice for content creators. I'd like to see you run Final Cut Pro on an iPad today. Ain't gonna happen overnight. You know all that content that you just adore? Most of it was created using very powerful desktops, laptops, and even super computers. You want to consume that stuff on a tablet or your smart phone? Be my guest. You just won't see Ubuntu Touch powered hardware until this October 2013 at the earliest and you'll see a wider selection by summer 2014.

Do you want to support Ubuntu and GNU/Linux or not? If so, then spend your money to get a System76, Emperor Linux, ZaReason, or Linux Certified PC of your choice. I'm looking at the new System76 Galagos UltraPro, but I won't get one until next summer 2014 because 1. I buy PCs in even numbered years; my Lemu4 was purchased in July 2012, and 2. I'm waiting for more power efficiency which will result in longer battery life and I am looking for a more high end Intel integrated GPU or when Ubuntu will officially support nVidia Optimus technology this time next year.

----------


## inof8or

> To be honest, The 4 hours doesn't bother me much. I can't really think of any time I would be away from a power source whilst using a laptop for 4 hours.


True, True! I'm sure that is the main course of logic in the product dev. 

However.. just because I'm next to a power source it doesn't mean I want to think about plugging into it. At under 4 pounds you might think moving around a bit and I don't want to bring that damn cord with me. Not because I'm lazy, because I'll forget it where ever I bring it or worst forget to bring it at all. Did that once with the panp5.. when I was giving a presentation! Besides its not under 4 pounds if you also have to bring a 3 pound power brick.

I'm an independent professional mostly working 8+ hour days. Most of this currently on a laptop tethered to the wall, like a desktop! I would love to have more versatility to work where I want. 4 hour battery might work if I plan ahead and think about my energy usage. "might" however is a key thing I don't want to have to deal with giving I have bigger a better things to do than babysit a undersized battery. Especially when I would gladly pay another 75$-$300 to get one that satisfied my needs. 

by my standards a $1300 7-8 battery hour laptop wins over the tablet because its the best "portable" power money can buy
Inversely a $400 10 hour tablet wins over a $1000 4 hour laptop because its the best "portable" power that coincidentally can be had a a cheap price.

----------


## Leslie Dorner

I'm hoping that this October 2013 will see new Ubuntu Touch powered tablets and smart phones so you and I can see how they function and how they perform especially regarding battery life. Understand that Ubuntu and especially Ubuntu Touch are in their infancy stage in terms of the number of active developers and ISVs that are willing to port their wares to the platform. By buying System76 devices and apps from the Ubuntu Software Center or its partners, you vote with your wallet or purse and make this a more attractive platform to code apps for and develop mature ecosystems.

The other thing that you have to realize is that Linux kernel 3.11 has some proposed new power management features to further optimize efficiency and preserve longer battery life from various devices like laptops. Once Ubuntu Touch is officially launched worldwide, expect to see further optimizations and efficiencies be incorporated into the Linux kernel so that desktops, laptops, servers, tablets, and smart phones will consume less power and deliver more speed, performance, and features. If things keep developing at their current pace, then the Linux kernel could show some improvements in power efficiency to make it as competitive as Windows 8 laptops and Surface RT or Surface Pro tablets and Windows 8 Nokia Lumia smart phones. For Ubuntu Touch to compete in terms of features and battery life with Apple's iOS and Google's Android, that will take a couple of more years of active development and continual refinements.

One of the biggest limitations is that you don't get to choose your battery capacity or cells with System76 products any longer. Until we as customers hammer this company to offer higher cell capacity lithium ion or polymer batteries, it will be the biggest weakness. You can optimize the Linux kernel as much as you want, but you're still limited to the size of the battery. I don't see enough customers pressuring System76 to offer different battery options at the time of purchase any longer so why should they compete with the PC industry on this front? This is the inherent problem. System76 customers aren't pressuring the company to innovate their battery technologies.

----------


## inof8or

> So don't buy a System76 laptop. Get a desktop. Better yet, get a tablet and go to a tablet forum while keeping your comments to yourself. This is the official System76 sub-forum. This is also the Ubuntu Forums.


I honestly want to buy a s76 product again, that's why I bother to toot this horn. The same way I did 2 years ago. When I believe they came out with a gazelle with the same lame battery stat.




> Laptops and especially desktops are still the choice for content creators. I'd like to see you run Final Cut Pro on an iPad today. Ain't gonna happen overnight.


I'm an Inventor by trade, videography and photography are side hobbys... It may surprise you that I spend more time doing these things than consuming. All in Linux with mostly open source software. Unfortunately one has to be persistent to do these things in Linux...So, mostly all of the content creating muggles use Macs.

I like to see legit content creation apps like, afteraffects/photoshop/final cut/csMax/inventor/solidworks ext working in linux without sketchy wine hacks. I agree with you, it ain't gonna happen overnight.

I'll just have figure it out content creation in android(linux) like I do in mint(linux). Both are not optimal but both are at least rooted in open source.





> Do you want to support Ubuntu and GNU/Linux or not?


OSS development is part of my work. I just want to see Collaborative development succeed. 

If, s76 and Canonical if they want to shoot themselves in the foot(s) with bad priority compromises like battery life for price and bugginess for a cutting edge desktop environment all the power to them. I'm just voicing that I'm going to move on to different "forks" if they make these mistakes.




> You can optimize the Linux kernel as much as you want, but you're still limited to the size of the battery.


Proper power management in linux would go a longer way than you think, my gf's lappy gets about 2 more hours in windows then linux. I'm sure the power of OSS would put linux ahead if the problem wasn't political. 

Sorry guys way off the battery life train! ....I want 8 hours.

----------


## screaminj3sus

Linux could certainly improve when it comes to battery life, but linux/ubuntu does a decent job (the linux kernel does plenty of power saving stuff by default, and ubuntu has pm utils scripts by default for all the power saving basics, such as putting pci devices into power saving modes on battery etc...) On my older Asus laptop my battery life in ubuntu is about the same as in windows.

The main problem with battery life in system76 laptops is because the only offer super low end 6 cell 48 Wh batteries (at least in the 14 inch models), and don't even offer any higher capacity options. If the battery is really low capacity then there is only so much the OS can do.

Anyway, aside from battery life gripes this new ultrabook does look like a very nice machine. If I had known system76 had an ultrabook in the works this year I probably would have held off on getting my lemur ultra (got one about 5 months ago). Oh well, this type of thing always happens with technology, as soon as you buy something something even better always comes right along  :Very Happy:

----------


## cprofitt

In regards to battery life my W520 with a 9 cell battery gets about 9.5 hours of battery life. My T530 gets roughly the same with a 9 cell battery.

----------


## 3Miro

Ultrabooks usually come with low wattage CPU which gives them long life for the battery. Galago comes with regular i7, which means more power and more power consumption.

----------


## Leslie Dorner

It's a very good Ultrabook PC with average looks. I sort of mistook it for an Acer Ultrabook, but with higher quality PC components and Ubuntu pre-loaded. I'm interested, but I'm having second thoughts. I've always bought new PCs with optical drives and to forgo it would be a considerable decision for me even though I have an external USB 3 Blu-Ray writer and another external USB 2 DVD/CD burner drives. I still rent discs including DVD-Videos and music CDs not to mention Blu-Ray discs from my local public libraries and I make backup copies of my own private library collection which is still growing with each purchase. I use the library to preview what I want to order to own in my library to see if it's worth the money or not. So, the Galago UltraPro would not let me do that at the library. That's a big bummer for me. I might go with the Gazelle Professional, but I prefer the Intel Iris Pro 5200. I could always get a portable USB 3 Blu-Ray burner drive, but they're kind of expensive.

----------


## RedRat

This really isn't a dump on System76. I think your criticism is on the wrong track. Look, many take laptops to class at university or they take them to business or scientific meeting to facilitate note taking. My grandson has Toshiba that is now roughly three years old running Windows and it gets around 3 hours. Really, 4 hours is just a little too short for such uses, unless the facility has a wall plug. I think this has been a problem for all laptops, whether running Ubuntu or Windows or Apple, and computer providers ought to be thinking about this. I have a Serval Pro from Sys76 and it has a battery life of about less than 1 hour. A good desktop replacement but then the battery becomes redundant. 

 I think someone mentioned that performance is probably not a major talking point anymore, pretty much just about all the various computers do just fine in that department. Perhaps it is time for manufacturers begin rethinking battery life again. Is it due to battery technology, power consumption of other components (e.g., backlight of the screen) or the CPU?

----------


## isantop

The big problem is lack of optimization in Ubuntu.

----------


## eutropia

> Ultrabooks usually come with low wattage CPU which gives them long life for the battery. Galago comes with regular i7, which means more power and more power consumption.


This.  The i7-4750HQ is totally beastmode.  Check out anandtech's review of it's higher-bin brother, the i7-4950HQ and you'll see the only chip on the market that outperformed it in computation fluid dynamics was a hex-core ivybridge CPU costing nearly $1000. The 128MB eDRAM isn't just for the graphics portion of the chip, it also acts as an L4 cache for the main CPU.

Back to the point at hand, the haswell U-series processors (the likes of which are in the new macbook air) have an average TPD of about 27W, whereas this i7 HQ series has a TPD of 47W.  Furthermore, most ultrabook OEMS are further underclocking/volting the U-series haswells for even more battery life.

This machine is an extremely portable powerhouse, and I welcome it with open arms as a developer.  I do look forward to more kernel support for haswell's power saving features, and I imagine that for the most part, I will get better battery life than 4 hours  -- I don't plan on watching videos on it full time, after all.

----------


## RedRat

What I would like to see is a laptop that I can take on an airplane and last long enough to cross the country, e.g., roughly 5-6 hour flight. That way, I can watch a movie or whatever. How many out there really need a laptop for strenuous game playing? I suspect that most users are either business people or users who use their machines to check email, maybe text, maybe Skype. I know that tablets kind of fit that bill a little bit. As Isantop said above, perhaps the next big push at the Ubuntu level ought to be optimization for power usage instead of changing the GUI and other window dressing.

----------


## isantop

I should point out that Canonical is capable of working on more than one thing at once with Ubuntu; indeed, the designers who make those sorts of GUI changes aren't even able to help with power usage optimiztion.

----------


## RedRat

"I should point out that Canonical is capable of working on more than one  thing at once with Ubuntu; indeed, the designers who make those sorts  of GUI changes aren't even able to help with power usage optimiztion."
-------------
How long have laptops been around now??? Quite a few years, I guess. How long has Ubuntu been around? Quite a few years too. I assume that Canonical is indeed capable of working on several things at once, but I think we are dealing with priorities here. Since we do not have an optimized Ubuntu for laptops, I guess that is down below GUI development. Someone, somewhere in the Canonical operation must set priorities, and I would like to see it on energy consumption. Android in tablets seems to be pretty well optimized for power, why not Ubuntu?

----------


## 3Miro

> What I would like to see is a laptop that I can take on an airplane and last long enough to cross the country, e.g., roughly 5-6 hour flight. That way, I can watch a movie or whatever. How many out there really need a laptop for strenuous game playing? I suspect that most users are either business people or users who use their machines to check email, maybe text, maybe Skype. I know that tablets kind of fit that bill a little bit. As Isantop said above, perhaps the next big push at the Ubuntu level ought to be optimization for power usage instead of changing the GUI and other window dressing.


I can get about 3 - 4 hours on my Gazelle and I have a spare battery, which means that I can last 6 hours at the least.

Ubuntu does come with optimizations for laptops, they are working behind scenes to move from "power" vs "power-safe" modes. A desktop simply never goes into power safe mode. The main reason why Galago doesn't compete with Ultrabooks on battery life is because it is not an Ultrabook (as eutropia pointed out).

----------


## isantop

What I'm saying is that Canonical don't have as many people to work on battery life optimization. It's not a question of priorities, it's a question of resources.

----------


## tagumcity

With System76'  reputation for quality, the Galago will just right for development tasks. When our Galago arrives, in goes the Samsung Pro 840 and 16GB of ram. We'll make it work with 4 hours of battery. Otherwise, we'll buy a 2nd battery. We're not expecting to be off the grid for 4 hours when pushing through on 8 threads.

----------

