# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Specialised Support > System76 Support > [all variants] Power management (daru2)

## nowanfoo

The old thread on this subject seems to be gone.

The problem is that power management goes haywire on the daru2: the screen dims and brightens, the battery status (both whether it's on AC, and the charge level) is horribly confused.  Setting the brightness control not to dim when on battery helps make the system usable when this happens.

This is with gutsy and kernel 2.6.22-14.  Setting ec_intr=0 in the boot helps, but even with that the system can frequently get into a state where the battery status goes haywire.  Typically this is after the laptop has been off an on a bit without being on AC between power-ups.

If anyone knows where this is being discussed now, can you post it in a follow-up?

----------


## freduardo

The old thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=609722
was moved to Ubuntu Forums > The Ubuntu Forum Community  > Forum Archive  > Main Support Categories  > System76 Support

Another thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=764970
on the suspend problems.

----------


## badbull

as you might read the ec_intr kernel option has been removed in the newer kernel. this option activate/deactivate the sending of acpi interrupts. the daru2 sends worng acpi interrupts so we use the polling mode in gutsy.(ec_intr=0)
in the new kernel the acpi embedded controler (drivers/acpi/ec.c) trys to set the mode to interrupt, if this fails it goes back to poll mode. you can't control this via boot option.
at the moment i'm compiling a hardy kernel with a modified ec.c. i'll post my experience on this later...maybe we have luck and get a kernel patch from ubuntu or system76.

----------


## laserline

If it supposed to fallback to polling automatically but doesn't actually do that, then that affects much more systems (I own a daru2).

I guess there should be a kernel update to fix that bug. not just a fix for system76 systems.

Although I won't mind this being fixed ASAP  :Smile: 

Please see this post: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=764970

Idan.

----------


## badbull

i had installed my selfbuild kernel with a default polling mode. it seems to work right, but i didn't test it much.
you can download it from ....

[edit] sorry, doesn't work...just for 3 hours then it goes crazy...

----------


## thomasaaron

We too are rolling a custom kernel that should set things straight.
It will probably take a few days.

----------


## jdb

I really like the acpi=noirq boot option.
It never goes crazy.
For me the lack of a screen brightness control has become a non issue because I like it full bright all the time anyway.

I still think I'm going to write a little progam with a brightness slider but it may be a while.  I'm trying to learn lisp & decided to make that my first project after the tutorial stuff I'm doing.  I'm an old vi guy & I'm having a heck of a time with emacs, much less the dang lisp  :Smile: 

jdb

----------


## laserline

If you need any testing, please let me know.

Idan.

----------


## laserline

> I really like the acpi=noirq boot option.
> It never goes crazy.
> For me the lack of a screen brightness control has become a non issue because I like it full bright all the time anyway.
> 
> I still think I'm going to write a little progam with a brightness slider but it may be a while.  I'm trying to learn lisp & decided to make that my first project after the tutorial stuff I'm doing.  I'm an old vi guy & I'm having a heck of a time with emacs, much less the dang lisp 
> 
> jdb


You can meanwhile use the brightness gnome applet. It works great.

----------


## zombiepig

is it possible that we are seeing the same problem (with different hardware) over here?
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=765213
Or am I way off track?  :Capital Razz:

----------


## walkeraj

> I know the feeling 
> 
> jdb


We _all_ know the feeling, and I'm going to be honest and say that this whole debacle has lowered my faith in both the company and the community a little.

Sure, the support is stellar (and Tom really should get like 30 medals), but that's only half the story.  You'd think that, after this much time, someone would have made _some_ progress, but as near as I can tell the System76 R&D team either doesn't exist, or is more concerned with finding the next new thing or fixing problems on other models.  Seriously, has _anyone_ from System76 other than Tom chimed in on this?  Because, I've not seen it.

You could say I'm not being fair to System 76 in this assessment, and perhaps I'm not.  Perhaps the R&D team doesn't employ anyone experienced in kernel development.  Even still, shouldn't the "research" part of "research and development" have seen that HDMI and suspend didn't work and that power management was flakey?  

Even looking past that, you'd think that a company-OEM relationship could have gotten some cooperation from the OEM in information that could have helped SOMEONE write a patch to this problem.  We bought these things with the understanding that they would work as laptops, after all, and what good is a laptop without suspend or power management?  I guess this is why the Darter3 isn't MSI.

Someone will probably come back at me and tell me to write a patch for it myself.  Had someone said that when this problem started, I would have come back and said I didn't know the kernel that well and would need 6 months to a year to get up to speed, and would have laughed, thinking that someone would probably fix it three times over in that time period, but this is where the kernel team starts to look not-so-good.  How long have these bugs been open?  I know, it's entirely volunteer, and I appreciate that.  I work with and contribute to open source, too, but... didn't a kernel developer get a loaner unit to develop on?  What happened with that?

It would all be terribly frustrating if it hadn't been like this for so long.  As it is, it just kind of  :Sad:

----------


## ceminino

The worst is that when you buy a laptop is basically for two years, and if it isn't fixed after one year you're really fu**ed! I don't blame System 76 about the problem, since it's a kernel problem, I'm just annoyed that they recommend a laptop which has those problem as a start.

----------


## val67

> The worst is that when you buy a laptop is basically for two years, and if it isn't fixed after one year you're really fu**ed! I don't blame System 76 about the problem, since it's a kernel problem, I'm just annoyed that they recommend a laptop which has those problem as a start.


Definitely it's System 76 fault here because they haven't tested Daru2 properly.

Here is a bigger problem, in my opinion:

With this rush to keep up with the 6 month release of Ubuntu, I am afraid that there is not enough time to sort out the outstanding bugs before moving to the next release.

To me it seemed that S76 has waited hoping that Ibex would "magically" solve the problem, which didn't happen.

Instead, S76 should have kept Hardy (LTS) and make it rock solid !

System76 should have supported Hardy LTS

----------


## jdb

I'm not so sure 76 is the one to blame.

It worked great with ec_intr=0, then the kernel changed.

It's not hard to patch the kernel to make it work but 76 would have a hard time deploying a kernel patch.

It would get blown away every time Ubuntu pushed new kernel code & they do that all the time.

I don't use Ubuntu anymore, I use Archlinux but it has the same problem.

I just don't load every new kernel update that's available & when I do load one, I patch it.

jdb

----------


## walkeraj

> I'm not so sure 76 is the one to blame.


Yeah, it's just hard to know what to think when there was never a time when it worked completely.  The day I got it, I think it was hibernate that was broken, but I was cool with that, I could still suspend, and hibernate support was coming.  Soon enough, hibernate worked, which was useful, but suspend didn't and power management was broken... and it's remained that way.




> It worked great with ec_intr=0, then the kernel changed.
> 
> It's not hard to patch the kernel to make it work


From what I was reading, it's still slow to respond to power events, and I remember when it was like that before and it was still kind of broken.




> but 76 would have a hard time deploying a kernel patch.
> 
> It would get blown away every time Ubuntu pushed new kernel code & they do that all the time.


True enough, so why can't we get a kernel level fix in place?  How long has this been a known issue?  It's quite frustrating.

I don't load every new kernel that comes down the pipe either and I'm certainly no stranger to patching my own, but I mean... I could have done that on another system for less money.

I work with open source a lot, and I'm a very big advocate of it, especially such a well-known and shining example as Ubuntu.  Indeed, just the other day my friend's laptop with Vista on it decided to randomly delete a few essential system files and she didn't have a recovery disk, so I installed Ubuntu on it for her and it works perfectly, which felt kind of ironic.

----------


## ceminino

> I'm not so sure 76 is the one to blame.
> 
> It worked great with ec_intr=0, then the kernel changed.


It never worked great, we never had standby working. I'm ashamed to say it but because of that I use windows at home, and linux just for work.

----------


## jdb

> It never worked great, we never had standby working. I'm ashamed to say it but because of that I use windows at home, and linux just for work.


I agree on the hibernate/suspend never working right.

76 should have checked the hardware out better before using it.

jdb

----------


## gaussian

> I agree on the hibernate/suspend never working right.
> 
> 76 should have checked the hardware out better before using it.
> 
> jdb



If my memory serves me correctly everything works almost perfectly with 64-bit Gutsy. The two caveats:

1) I think hibernate needs s2disk (uswsusp)
2) Using suspend will make computer hang on power down just when it is supposed to power down

I have to admit that I was little disappointed when I got my Daru with 32-bit Feisty and real suspend did not work (standby did). However for my personal use in the end really does not matter, Daru2 is my desktop replacement at home. My laptop nowadays is a Asus EEE 1000: in the end I decided Daru is too heavy to be hauled around. Can you tell I like light computers? I never understood people with 14 or 17 inch laptops. But then again, I don't play games, do video-editing or anything like that.

As a summary: Tom's support on things that matter have been so great that regardless of this I will probably buy my next computer from System 76.

----------


## jdb

> As a summary: Tom's support on things that matter have been so great that regardless of this I will probably buy my next computer from System 76.


I agree with what you say.

For me the Daru2 is great, if I'm not using it I just power down.
I like a clean boot once in a while anyway, with Archlinux & fluxbox it only takes about 40 seconds from power button to desktop.

But ..., I do understand that suspend is important to some laptop users.

jdb

----------


## williumbillium

:Sad:

----------


## bkloppenborg

Although it was posted above, this bug has the following ticket:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...ux/+bug/147560

A kernel patch was applied that worked fine up to 2.6.27-6 but was broken by another kernel patch in 2.6.27-7.

----------


## jdb

I just upgraded to 2.6.27-10 in Archlinux and acpi=noirq no longer fixes the power management problem.
Ibex is currently on 2.6.27-9 so this is something to look out for on the next kernel upgrade.

jdb

----------


## ceminino

> I've never had my daru2 shut down but I do see the high 80s when I compile a kernel or make a coding mistake & get it stuck in a loop.
> I've probably been a few degree's away from it.
> When I run sensors to check the temp it says the critical temp is 100.
> 
> jdb


sorry to bring back this long forgotten issue of the heating, but I thought I'd just drop a line since I understood what was the problem. Actually it's just dust stuck around the fan... blowing a bit air inside is enough...
I'm testing a parallel job on both cores for 1 hour and the temperature is just 83 degrees... simple solutions to simple problems  :Smile:

----------


## pavel_987

So is it safe to say that suspend will never get fixed? Or probably on the date we decided to get a new laptop.  :Sad: 

On the bright side I'm trying to 2.6.29-rc1 from git, and it looks like they fixed the power management regression in recent kernels. But I may be speaking too soon.

----------


## val67

i am still stupefied that the s76 R&D team could not have found a fix for this in more than 6 months, and include it in the s76 driver.

----------


## walkeraj

> i am still stupefied that the s76 R&D team could not have found a fix for this in more than 6 months, and include it in the s76 driver.


This model has been the black sheep for awhile now.  Even System76 has gone with a different OEM for the Daru3 because of all the problems.

I pretty much gave up awhile back, put Windows on the Daru2 using the included driver disk and sold it on Craigslist.  I  Now I have a Thinkpad that hibernates and suspends and am finally happy with a Linux laptop.

----------


## gbuntu55

I'll admit it. As a daru2 user for a little over a year now, I probably would not have gone this route if I'd known all the hacks I'd be having to do to keep some semblance of a useful system/laptop going. Along with a buggy Gnome install and problems with python scripts after the upgrade from Feisty to Gutsy and the power management problem, I have twice had to conduct major surgery on my laptop LCD screen to fix a broken/worn cable connection that runs tightly through the left hinge.

A few months ago I did a clean install of Kbuntu (Hardy) and decided *not* to use the System76 drivers. Since then I have had fewer problems but maybe I'm just getting used to the occasionally flaky nature of the system and the Ubuntu distro.

One particularly annoying problem that crops up at random every few weeks is the complete inability to properly shut down the system. This usually starts with a few icons disappearing from the menus (I'll go to shut down and notice that some of the logout/suspend icons are just missing). This is when I know I'm in trouble.

I try to shutdown and the system will go to a terminal with a login prompt. When I try to login, it just stalls for a moment and then the login prompt appears again. From this point there is no easy way to issue any commands (I have even tried ssh'ing to the laptop from another PC to no avail). ATL-ALT-DEL doesn't work and shutting down through the power button ends up scrambling the disk and then I have to run fsck and cross my fingers!

I can't count how many times I've come back from one of these problems with all my desktop reset and strange behavior from some apps until files are cleaned up.

A few weeks ago I found that using alt-sysrq S, U, B, or may just B is 
one way to reboot when in this situation. More info here:
http://www.linuxhowtos.org/Tips%20an...icks/sysrq.htm

Has anyone else encountered these issues?

Oh, one last thing about daru2. Some of the keys are beginning to get a little shall we say, "shaky". The down arrow key feels like it might give out any day now. Also, the left mouse button stopped clicking a long time a go. It still works but it's pretty "spongey".

Sorry to ramble on and take this somewhat off topic but that's my experience with the daru2 from System76. I'm thinking new laptop this year. Question is, is it time for a Mac?

----------


## val67

> Sorry to ramble on and take this somewhat off topic but that's my experience with the daru2 from System76. I'm thinking new laptop this year. Question is, is it time for a Mac?


I am leaning towards Mac as well. I think it's wrong to be forced to upgrad e every 6 months your OS to a new Ubuntu version that proves to need some other months to iron out the major bugs. By the time one finally (after months) has a functional desktop, a new Ubuntu version comes out which breaks many things.

I had hoped that the S76 driver could solve this problems, but unfortunately  this is not the case.

----------


## val67

> Now I have a Thinkpad that hibernates and suspends and am finally happy with a Linux laptop.


Can you please share the specs of your Thinkpad?

Thx,

----------


## jdb

> I am leaning towards Mac as well. I think it's wrong to be forced to upgrad e every 6 months your OS to a new Ubuntu version that proves to need some other months to iron out the major bugs. By the time one finally (after months) has a functional desktop, a new Ubuntu version comes out which breaks many things.
> 
> I had hoped that the S76 driver could solve this problems, but unfortunately  this is not the case.


Ubuntu is not the only linux distro out there.

Also, you don't have to upgrade Ubuntu every 6 months.
Hardy Heron, Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop Edition, is supported for 3 years.
The LTS stands for Long Term Support.

After three years all the major bugs will be gone & it should work fine for another year or so after that.
By then the next LTS should be pretty well bug free.

jdb

----------


## val67

> Ubuntu is not the only linux distro out there.
> 
> Also, you don't have to upgrade Ubuntu every 6 months.
> Hardy Heron, Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop Edition, is supported for 3 years.
> The LTS stands for Long Term Support.
> 
> After three years all the major bugs will be gone & it should work fine for another year or so after that.
> By then the next LTS should be pretty well bug free.
> 
> jdb


I know about the LTS releases. Problem is that if I buy a S76 laptop today, it does not come with a LTS installed. So I would have to do it all manually ... and w/out the help of the s76 driver

----------


## jdb

> I know about the LTS releases. Problem is that if I buy a S76 laptop today, it does not come with a LTS installed. So I would have to do it all manually ... and w/out the help of the s76 driver


The 76 drivers work just fine in Hardy.

jdb

----------


## val67

> The 76 drivers work just fine in Hardy.
> 
> jdb


Does it fix the Daru2 suspend/resume issue?

----------


## val67

> The 76 drivers work just fine in Hardy.
> 
> jdb


Ok, if I buy today a a76 laptop, it will come with ibex.

Assuming I have to manually reinstall hardy LTS, how can I then install the s67 driver?

----------


## jdb

> Ok, if I buy today a a76 laptop, it will come with ibex.
> 
> Assuming I have to manually reinstall hardy LTS, how can I then install the s67 driver?




```
sudo echo 'deb http://planet76.com/repositories/ ./' > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/system76.list
wget -q http://planet76.com/repositories/system76_dev.pub -O- | sudo apt-key add - && sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get install system76-driver
```

run system76-driver and select "Install Drivers" -> "Install"

The 76 drivers won't do anything for Daru2 power management.

jdb

----------


## val67

Thanks, jdb. It's good to know that Hardy is still supported, even though not installed by default.

----------


## gbuntu55

> The 76 drivers won't do anything for Daru2 power management.
> 
> jdb


What exactly do the s76 drivers do then? Like I said I've not used the s76 drivers since a clean install of Kubuntu Hardy LTS and I'm using kernel version 2.6.24-23-generic after a recent package upgrade. I don't use hibernate/suspend b/c of past issues but I don't seem to be having any problems with going from AC to battery power like we used to see with the screen brightness/apci issues.

So, what would the sys76 drivers do for my daru2 in its current config?

----------


## williumbillium

> What exactly do the s76 drivers do then? Like I said I've not used the s76 drivers since a clean install of Kubuntu Hardy LTS and I'm using kernel version 2.6.24-23-generic after a recent package upgrade. I don't use hibernate/suspend b/c of past issues but I don't seem to be having any problems with going from AC to battery power like we used to see with the screen brightness/apci issues.
> 
> So, what would the sys76 drivers do for my daru2 in its current config?


According to the System76 driver page in the wiki, in Hardy on the Daru2, support for the following items is added:

Restore, Sound, Wireless LED

The workaround for power management has to be added manually AFAIK.

----------


## williumbillium

> Also, you don't have to upgrade Ubuntu every 6 months.
> Hardy Heron, Ubuntu 8.04 LTS Desktop Edition, is supported for 3 years.
> The LTS stands for Long Term Support.
> 
> After three years all the major bugs will be gone & it should work fine for another year or so after that.
> By then the next LTS should be pretty well bug free.


The problem is that the latest release to fully work on the Daru2 is Gutsy which will no longer be supported in 3 months time.  So I am effectively, a year after purchasing my computer, being forced to "upgrade" to a release that has worse support for it.  If I don't upgrade, I no longer receive security updates which is not an option.  Of course, I don't really blame Ubuntu for this, but it is the situation I am facing none the less.

Also, the LTS releases are supported for 3 years.  It is my understanding that, after that time period, they no longer receive security updates so I wouldn't recommend continuing to use them after that time.  Can someone confirm that is the case?

----------


## gbuntu55

> According to the System76 driver page in the wiki, in Hardy on the Daru2, support for the following items is added:
> 
> Restore, Sound, Wireless LED
> 
> The workaround for power management has to be added manually AFAIK.


That's what so strange. I don't seem to have any sound or wireless LED problems and I'm not using the the driver. 

If it ain't broke...I don't see why I should install the s76 driver?

----------


## jdb

> That's what so strange. I don't seem to have any sound or wireless LED problems and I'm not using the the driver. 
> 
> If it ain't broke...I don't see why I should install the s76 driver?


The main thing it fixes is the internal & external microphones.
With the latest Ubuntu they might not need fixing anymore.
I think I remember them working without the driver but they might have been low on gain.

I'm on the latest kernel in Archlinux right now & they don't work at all with it.
I need to take a look at the 76 driver & see what the fix is.

jdb

----------


## walkeraj

From what I've seen, the System 76 "drivers" are not actually drivers, per se, but rather a series of python scripts that detect and apply certain platform-specific fixes.  A lot of the time, certain machines, especially laptops, require a bit of fiddling to get certain things like hotkeys and microphones and embedded webcams to work.  Sometimes you might need to insert a module or change the hotkey masking or have certain troublesome services disabled at suspend time or something like that when the autodetection doesn't quite do it for you.

Gradually, whatever failings keep hardware from "just working" are fixed, and tweaks aren't necessary anymore, which is almost certainly why later distributions don't have some problems, and don't require the "Drivers".

----------

