# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Specialised Support > System76 Support > [other] Zareason vs System76

## Orcris

Which one is better? I know Zareason is cheaper, which is why I'm considering using it, but System76 is also more popular. Which one is better?

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## Dragonbite

When I compare them I don't see much of a difference, and usually it is in System 76's favor.

What system(s) are you looking at?

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## wss

I have no experience with Zareason, but I've been using a Serval Professional for the past couple months. So far, it's been very solid. I recommend this product.  :Smile:

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## Orcris

I'm not looking at any specific model. I will probably get the cheapest model netbook. I just want to know which one I should use.

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## bill516

> I will probably get the cheapest model netbook.


In which case there is no point to asking which vendor is "best," and certainly not on a site dedicated to support from one of the vendors.

I understand how difficult this economy is.  A lot of people are struggling.  That said do remember that you may get what you pay for.  "Best" and "cheapest" do not often go together in my experience.

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## BBQdave

> I'm not looking at any specific model. I will probably get the cheapest model netbook. I just want to know which one I should use.


Currently System76 does not offer a net-book.  Zareason offers a 10'' and 11'' model.  From my research both are great companies and do well by the GNU/Linux community.

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## memilanuk

> I know Zareason is cheaper



That was my initial impression too... but when I sat down with a spreadsheet and priced out, option by option, two similarly spec'd machines (Serval vs. Verix2)... System76 looks to be a couple hundred $$$ cheaper - and thats *if* I don't opt for a couple of features that ZAreason doesn't offer...

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## Dragonbite

If I take the base System76 Pangolin Performance and the ZaReason Strata 5330 with upping the chip to match the i5 in the Pangolin and matching ram, hd, etc. I get $ 838.00 for ZaReason and $699.00 for the System76 machine and as far as I can see they have the same specs (or am I missing something?).

Even if I update the System76 to the second i5 chip (+$59) it is still $758 vs $838

i5 chip
2 GB Ram
250 GB hard drive
Intel BGN wireless
Intel Graphics
6-cell battery
1.3 MP webcame
SD card reader (ZaReason might read more cards)

One thing that could be different, I guess, is the i5 chips may not be a direct comparison and ZaReason offers more than just Ubuntu installed but otherwise I don't see much of a difference between the two.

If I take the System76 and pop up to the first i7 chip option, go to 4 GB of Ram and increase the hard drive to 500 GB the price creeps up to $831!

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## isantop

> If I take the base System76 Pangolin Performance and the ZaReason Strata 5330 with upping the chip to match the i5 in the Pangolin and matching ram, hd, etc. I get $ 838.00 for ZaReason and $699.00 for the System76 machine and as far as I can see they have the same specs (or am I missing something?).
> 
> Even if I update the System76 to the second i5 chip (+$59) it is still $758 vs $838
> 
> i5 chip
> 2 GB Ram
> 250 GB hard drive
> Intel BGN wireless
> Intel Graphics
> ...


There is actually a sizeable difference. The Pangolin offers 2nd-generation Intel chips (Sandy Bridge) that offer much more performance and much lower power consumption. In addition to that, the Pangolin will offer much faster graphics since the GPU on sandy bridge chips is integrated onto the CPU chip, rather than the motherboard. 

The Pangolin also offers faster RAM. This won't make as big a difference than the processor will, but it is still there. That Strata is actually more comparable in specs to a Lemur 2.

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## norfair

I can't fully compare and contrast the two, but I can say that a ZaReason desktop was actually my first computer purchase (using my own money) and my first time ever seeing, using, and loving Ubuntu (or Linux for that matter). Their customer service is amazing, however their products seem a bit more behind the times than those of System76. None of their notebooks feature LED displays (though, I believe their netbooks), and many of their desktops still feature the old Intel SSD drives, and other seemingly more dated parts. Not to mention that their current lineup of desktops are rather mundane in appearance.

But, I'm still super partial to ZaReason and check the site weekly for a potential upgrade model (desktop or notebook). Unlike System76, they offer AMD options (yay!) and offer installation of a variety of Linux operating systems. They'll make the system 32 or 64 bit upon request and will ship the system with any additional programs you want pre-installed. I also like they don't ship their systems with proprietary drivers. And while it's not a bad or good thing to have them, I just like that their systems are made to "just work" on their own. 

So, yeah, I really like ZaReason - I just wish they were able to jazz their wares up a bit. And while I haven't purchased anything from System76 (yet!), I have been in contact with them via email and those I have corresponded with have delivered nothing short of excellent customer service. Now, if they'd just introduce a the new Lemur with a matte screen and a few other tweaks as mentioned in the Lemur thread floating about, they'd have my order for Oneric in no time flat!

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## dxgc

My take:

The really short version is "whatever" vs "we really care".

The slightly longer version: I have two ZaReason desktops. When looking for a netbook I checked there first.  Ultimately they seemed to have the best deal.

When I ordered, their web site garbled my order, so I added a note. Two or three days later I hadn't heard anything, and since they made it clear that they don't do any support, I checked the web site for information.

I found that most of the site was placeholder pages. 

I finally found a way to contact them, and got a sort of "Well, it's probably OK. What's the big deal?" kind of response.

Along with this was a side note that they had intended to get back to me but had lost the draft email.

I canceled my order. 

Then the "CEO" followed up with a separate, final email in effect telling me not to whine so much.

This is all paraphrasing -- I have the emails and may publish them some day because I'm still hopping mad.

OK, then I go to System76. Totally the opposite.

The first thing that happened after I placed my order is that I got an email confirming that and also telling me that there was a problem with my credit card. I've had this card since 1987, have never had a problem, and have never even paid a penny in interest.

It turned out that System76 is very picky. They discovered that I had no physical address on file with my credit card issuer, something that even the issuer wasn't aware of. 

Dang. That's sharp.

Overall, it took me a bit to straighten things out, but I am grateful, and I said so.

The order went through without a hitch after that, and I've been able to do some more research on the System76 forums, which are much, much, much better than what the other company provides, which is basically absolutely nothing, and don't bother us, thank you very much.

Because of my experience I will never ever consider buying anything from ZaReason again. No matter what.

For my next portable computing purchase, System76 is very much in the running.

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## eljayski

When I went Linux, I bought a zareason netbook for my wife and a starling for me, just to compare.

The starling is solid, the zareason feels flimsy.  Both work as intended.  Since then, i've purchased two more sys76s and no more zareasons.

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## jppelt

I've purchased from both.  System 76 has very nice computers.  The thing that will keep me returning to Zareason is: 1) not wedded to Unbuntu, will load just about any distro (my latest was a Ubuntu/Mint 64 bit dual load) and, most importantly to me, 2) no drivers: they build their computers to work without requiring you to install specific vendor drivers.  

Either way, you will not go wrong and prevent M$ or Mac claiming a sale.

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## jwh400

I have a Zareason small form factor desktop that's been in daily use for seven years and a Stratus 2660 laptop that's three years old and both have performed flawlessly. 

In October 2011 I purchased a System76 Pangolin P8 that arrived DOA. According to a few threads here System76 was aware of this but shipped it anyway. They emailed me a line of code to get it going but it did nothing so I did a reinstall. This is when I learned about the System76 driver. Since an OS doesn't require a 'driver' to boot, I view this device as little more than an attempt to keep you from using an OS other than the one they choose for you. Not even Microsoft requires this from their vendors. Yet.

After finally getting it going it would run a few minutes when purple lines would start appearing across the screen. When this happened I would have about 30 seconds to shut it down before it would freeze hard. I reinstalled different versions of Ubuntu but got the same results so it's a hardware issue that I can't find. A few emails were exchanged between myself and System76 but they eventually stopped responding. I assume they became bored with my little problem. My $1000 mistake has been sitting on a shelf since early December.

I recommend Zareason but if you want something a bit more polished, go with Dell or HP and install the OS of your choice.

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## isantop

In our defence, I'd like to clarify a few things from this post:




> According to a few threads here System76 was aware of this but shipped it anyway.


This issue was discovered after a few of the systems had shipped. Once we discovered it, we immediately halted shipment until a fix could be applied. A few systems made it out without the fix, which is unfortunate, but we would never knowingly ship a system that doesn't work out of the box. This issue simply happened to slip through our testing, and we've improved our methods since then.




> This is when I learned about the System76 driver. Since an OS doesn't require a 'driver' to boot, I view this device as little more than an attempt to keep you from using an OS other than the one they choose for you. Not even Microsoft requires this from their vendors. Yet.


Our systems will not require the System76 Driver to boot, it merely fixes any remaining glitches after a fresh installation. On many systems, it's only used for things like hotkeys, and is distributed in order to allow customers to perform an installation using any Ubuntu installation media, rather than one that is System76 specific. We also use it to fix regressions, so in the event something breaks in a new version of Ubuntu, we can patch it there and distribute the fix to our customers. 

We don't lock any of our systems to Ubuntu, and the customer is free to install any OS they'd like; it won't void your warranty. In addition, while we can't provide software support for non-Ubuntu OSs, we will support any supported copy of Ubuntu on a given system, even if a non-Ubuntu OS has been previously installed.

Also, if you're still having issues with your system, feel free to open a support case from your account on our website. We were aware of issues with our previous email-based support system, and have since developed an all new system in-house. It's fixed virtually all of the issues we had with the old system, and I'm confident we can get your system up and running in a very timely manner.

EDIT: I'll also note that if you open a ticket and mention that you're confident this is a hardware issue, we'll get you straight into the repair queue. Under our new system, we can have the system ready to be shipped back within 24 hours in most cases.

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## mgolden

I bought a Gazelle Pro in October and had that issue configuring it - which was okay because I intended to reinstall Kubuntu on it anyway.  The system76 repository was not a problem to add, and everything works fine (and has on 12.04 as well).

The main issue right now is that zareason has some laptops with specs roughly the same as the Gazelle (though considerably more expensive, by my calculation) and system76 doesn't (yet).  When they have them again, I would have no problem recommending system76.

(Don't use the laptop bag they'll send you, though!)

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## aykoola

EU Shipping would be great  :Smile:

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## ufugu

I actually wanted to go with Zareason since they are close enough to bike to and I could save on shipping and see the shop. But the price comparisons were not even close and I ended up going with '76 to get a more powerful laptop with features I really wanted for much less.

Also: Subjective, but I do have to say the Zareasons are much better looking!

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## Ubun2to

> I actually wanted to go with Zareason since they are close enough to bike to and I could save on shipping and see the shop. But the price comparisons were not even close and I ended up going with '76 to get a more powerful laptop with features I really wanted for much less.
> 
> Also: Subjective, but I do have to say the Zareasons are much better looking!


I say System76 looks better, but it's all in the eye of the beholder.
Personally, I love my System76 Lemur Ultra, and plan on sticking with it for all my new computer purchases-high quality devices and customer support, and it doesn't come with a sacrifice in price.

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## 3Miro

Take a note that most of the posts here are very old. The current ZaReason laptop lineup seems impressive, but notice how they are selling machines with Nvidia Optimus Technology. While Optimus can be made to sort-of-work on a modern Linux machine, it is still very iffy technology. I doubt ZaReason has the manpower to support technology that Nvidia refuses to support. This makes me weary of the ZaReason's products, I am sure they will work, but I don't think they can provide the same smooth experience as System76.

Also, pay attention to the specs, System76 is consistent in selling laptops with Intel third generation iX processors, ZaReason still has models with generation one and two. This is not really a problem, just that one should pay attention to what they are ordering.

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## dodo3773

> Our systems will not require the System76 Driver to boot, it merely fixes any remaining glitches after a fresh installation.


System76 does not manufacture the hardware or write drivers for it. The drivers and firmware (usually a separate package than the kernel itself (example: needed for intel wifi firmware iwlwifi )) are in the kernel itself just like when you install GNU / Linux on any other hardware.




> The thing that will keep me returning to Zareason is: 1) not wedded to Unbuntu, will load just about any distro (my latest was a Ubuntu/Mint 64 bit dual load)


Same ignorance as the previous drivers comment more or less. You can boot as many operating systems as you want on a System76 machine (just like any other). Went from Ubuntu (pre-installed) Arch -> Gentoo -> Arch. No problem at all. It doesn't matter. The hardware is good and reasonable priced. The quality of the build is solid. The customer service is great. They don't support Windows in any way (this is a benefit for me since I despise Microsoft (yeah, I'm one of "those" people haha)). The only thing I would like to see someday is a completely open system (no firmware required, coreboot, etc..). But I doubt Zareason offers that either.

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## Lemuriano

ThinkPenguin may be another option.


https://www.thinkpenguin.com/

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## Ubun2to

> ThinkPenguin may be another option.
> 
> 
> https://www.thinkpenguin.com/


A bit outdated on the specs, like ZaReason.
The thing I'm wondering is what is the generation of the processors you can get?

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