# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Ubuntu Community Discussions > Ubuntu, Linux and OS Chat >  Say Goodbye to Windows XP - StartUbuntu Project

## amjjawad

Hi,

StartUbuntu Project is a Project for ALL Ubuntu Communities (Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu Studio, Edubuntu, Mythubuntu and UbuntuKylin) and the one and only aim is to introduce the best choice for Windows XP Users and make their migration to Linux as smooth and easy as possible. It is a Community Project that IMHO, everyone should be part of this and spread the word, just as we used to do. After all, as a Linux User, you may want to give back something for Linux. What could be better than this? 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu


Windows XP EOL will be April, 2014. There is no much time left. There are some users who have joined already (as this is not a recent project) and they are contributing already but the more, the better. Each user of any Ubuntu Flavour needs to promote for his best flavour and invite his Windows XP Friends to have a look at Linux and that Linux is Ubuntu or any official Flavour and we do know for a fact that Ubuntu and its official flavours are simply the best  :Smile: 

Artwork (banner) is done by Rafael, Lubuntu Artwork Team Leader who is helping a lot with this project but creating such amazing banners and artwork which is needed.

Thank you!

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## John_McCourt

I'm not sure that the current version Ubuntu is suitable for all old windows XP machines. Yes it will run, but  very slowly.  P4 and below would be barely useable, even with Lubuntu or Xbuntu which both have a high overhead. A big part of that is  that tabbed browsers use alot of memory. When XP came out there were no tabbed browsers, so people browsed the web more sensibly.

In my opinion now is the time to start getting rid of the old PC's. Maybe giving them to people in poor countries is an option, but not for anything in the first world.

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## sudodus

Some people have not the money to spend on a new computer. Others may have the money, but want to spend it on other things.

And _John_McCourt_, you mentioned a method, how to browse the internet with old hardware. Use only one tab in the browser!

Have a look at this link, Old hardware, that describes the practical limit for useful old hardware and several tips what to do.

If the computer is to be converted to a single boot Ubuntu flavour system, the One Button Installer is a good option.

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## amjjawad

Hello and welcome to Ubuntu Forums  :Smile: 

Thank you for posting!




> I'm not sure that the current version Ubuntu is suitable for all old windows XP machines.


While indeed the campaign called StartUbuntu but if you take a look at the Wiki Page, you will find that we are actually offering more than one option  :Smile:  if Ubuntu can't be installed, there are other alternatives  :Smile: 
Lubuntu
Xubuntu

Both work on old machines.




> Yes it will run, but  very slowly.


We have no idea what kind of machines those users are having. May I remind you that so many users could have good hardware but they insist to use Windows XP for some reason (for them, they just love it). So, if Ubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Kubuntu, etc will not work on that hardware, we do have Lubuntu and Xubuntu  :Smile: 





> P4 and below would be barely useable, even with Lubuntu or Xbuntu which both have a high overhead.


Being an active tester for both of what you mentioned for the last 3 years, I have never ever faced any issue with these machines and yes, I have two different machines, both with P4 and yes, one of them have even less than 512MB RAM and yes, even on 256MB RAM, Lubuntu worked  :Smile: 

Let's remember something. It depends on what you are doing. Of course, if you are willing to open 10 tabs, you obviously need a machine that can handle that so it has nothing to do with the system you use in that case.

And, with old machine and low RAM, there is a bit of a trick:

sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install zram-config

Lubuntu 13.10 by default will be shipped with that option installed.




> A big part of that is  that tabbed browsers use alot of memory.


No doubt about that  :Smile: 





> When XP came out there were no tabbed browsers, so people browsed the web more sensibly.


True but yet again, no one knows what kind of hardware they have? guessing they didn't upgrade their machines (hardware) and they are using +10 years old machines, all of those users? is, IMHO, incorrect and wrong guess.




> In my opinion now is the time to start getting rid of the old PC's.


I disagree  :Smile: 
If it is not broken, why to get rid of it?




> Maybe giving them to people in poor countries is an option, but not for anything in the first world.


Not really off-topic but what really makes the poor people in poor countries less humans than those living in rich countries? humans are humans and everyone should be treated equally and even though you want to send that to the poor countries, what system are you proposing to be installed? XP? the outdated forsaken version of Microsoft? hmm, I don't think so  :Sad: 

If you are suggesting to get rid of these machines (very old machines), then no one should use it.
There are 5-6 years old machines can be sent to the poor people.

Thanks!

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## makitso

amjjawad,

Some planning tips:

First, remember the audience that this effort is aimed at, i.e. it's not for hard core linux/ubuntu fans but windows XP users?  Since there still on XP, that suggests that something has prevented them from upgrading?
What are the requirements that is driving your effort?  Suggest you focus on 5 items as key success factors.
What outcome are you expecting from this effort?

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## mastablasta

i have very old 1,2Ghz notebook with 20 GB HDD and 256MB ram. while it was "designed for windows xp" and Win XP does run after installing a few SP and updates it barely moves. 10 minutes to boot. crashes... i've put Chrunchbang on it and it flies. 30 sec to boot it had better battery life etc.... anyway lubuntu also ran nicely and so does AntiX. i think the notebook is really from 2001 or 2002. so 11, 12 yeas... it was a given laptop and at the time it was needed and proved as a good solution without spending any additional money.

i myself bough a new mashcine but with perhaps a bit dated components arround 2005 or 2006 and then i upgraded it only slightly (had to use the motherboard on another computer). For the most part it had 2 GB ram but now has 4 GB. it is still runing on windows XP and doea everyhting i need to do. my biggest mistake at the time is not getting a more powerful CPU as i planned ot get one later on but they didn't sell them anymore when i had some money left. anyway it's an Athlon64 CPU, with 4 GB ram and plenty disk space. and older GPU provides some excitement in games. nothing special really. 

why would i be giving it away? it works, it does what i need it to do, i can surf internet with multiple tabs (not that i need more than 4 or 5 open becuase i can't read 20 pages at the same time), i can play games from 2007-2010 sometimes even more later titles (as long as they are not too demanding)... to get a new midrange computer i would need to invest at least 500, 600 EUR if not more. so why not just free up some disk space and put linux on that? Kubuntu runs so fast on it i can barely keep up with it. 

i can still use XP for games and a few windows programmes i might need. i can get a lot for 500 EUR here. for example i add a bit money to this amount and can get a nice child room or something. 

i also inherited about half of computer with winXP (the motherboard didn't support the full freqency of CPU). so i bought a few extra components (cheapest CPU and mobo with compatible ram and AGP slots) attached disk to it and stuck Kubuntu on it. it runs like a charm (well appart from the sound issue that got screwed by ubuntu updates). again it works and is fast engouh that i can have plenty KDE desktop effects turned on. why would i throw those perfectly good componets aways for about 100 EUR at the time i got a computer with new motherboard, descent GPU and an OK CPU.

i think part of the problem in PC sales is that about 5 or 6 years ago most mashcines were just good enough for most people. they were powerfull enough and cheap enough. new ones have faster GPU, CPU more RAM but that are not that much faster. they are just not like it was in 90's when every 1 or 2 years you had a 2 times faster CPU. i checked some benchmarking sites and i see many of what is sold today in mid range is only 2x as fast as my single core CPU. ok maybe a bit more. but not that much more. which explains why i can run quite a few of new games on such old mashicne.

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## amjjawad

> amjjawad,


Hi makitso,

Long time no see  :Smile: 





> Some planning tips:
> 
> First, remember the audience that this effort is aimed at, i.e. it's not for hard core linux/ubuntu fans but windows XP users?


Solely and Purely, this is aimed for Windows XP Users, for the time being  :Smile: 
If this campaign will make any success, we can go even further but for now, Mission 1 is to reach to as many Windows XP Users as possible and offer them something they have never heard nor dreamed about.




> Since there still on XP, that suggests that something has prevented them from upgrading?


Yes, most likely, here is why:

1- They have never ever heard about Linux
2- They have heard about Linux but because the lack of beginner support, they perhaps had tried it and decided to stay with Windows.
3- They don't really care whether Windows XP will no longer be supported or not so they will keep using it - yes, I am serious, I know some  :Smile: 
4- They will listen to Microsoft and either buy new hardware or go for upgrade to Windows 7 or Windows 8

The first 2 groups are easy target.
The last 2 groups are a bit hard, specially type 3. However, nothing is impossible  :Smile: 




> What are the requirements that is driving your effort?


There is one and only thing that is driving me, that is Linux. Linux should not be kept on desks inside laptops or PC, Linux MUST be around the world, everywhere. That is my personal opinion and that is something I'd like to achieve.




> Suggest you focus on 5 items as key success factors.


Hm, but this is not a personal project and its success of failure will back to me, this is a huge community project that, IMHO, most if not everyone should really participate in, that of course if he/she is willing to spread Linux and not just using it  :Smile: 




> What outcome are you expecting from this effort?


One and only outcome = Windows XP Users (whether 1% of them or 99% of them - does not matter IMHO) to drop Windows once and for all and StartUbuntu  :Smile: 

That is all in mind right now!

Thanks a lot  :Smile:

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## stalkingwolf

> I'm not sure that the current version Ubuntu is suitable for all old windows XP machines. Yes it will run, but  very slowly.  P4 and below would be barely useable, even with Lubuntu or Xbuntu which both have a high overhead. A big part of that is  that tabbed browsers use alot of memory. When XP came out there were no tabbed browsers, so people browsed the web more sensibly.
> 
> In my opinion now is the time to start getting rid of the old PC's. Maybe giving them to people in poor countries is an option, but not for anything in the first world.


in my home there are 2 hp mini110's, a whitebox , 2 hp 5000 series towers and an emachines. all of the p4 class dual core, with 1 -3 gb of ram.  they all do very well with mint 13 . I run firefox as the default with crome and epiphany as alternates. and the mate desktop.  I also maintain several others all with mint 13 with no problems. 3 of them former windows users and two that are owned by 11 year olds with the edubuntu packages added.  They took off wiht them and havent looked back.

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## aysiu

You can run Lubuntu on 128 MB of RAM with a Celeron processor, so I highly doubt any Windows XP machine would be low-spec enough for Lubuntu to be heavy on.

That said, I don't really know that many people still running Windows XP. Lots of Windows 7. Some Vista. Some just switched over to Mac.

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## monkeybrain20122

> You can run Lubuntu on 128 MB of RAM with a Celeron processor, so I highly doubt any Windows XP machine would be low-spec enough for Lubuntu to be heavy on.
> 
> That said, I don't really know that many people still running Windows XP. Lots of Windows 7. Some Vista. Some just switched over to Mac.


I know quite a few people still using XP. In the internet cafes they are all XPs.  :Smile:

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## amjjawad

The Dutch IT news site Webwereld mentioned Start Ubuntu!

http://translate.google.com/translat...ijvers&act=url
(Google Translate link. Translation is pretty horrible. It also changed Start Ubuntu to Ubuntu Start for some weird reason)

Good to see we are getting some publicity  :Smile: 

Original: http://webwereld.nl/beveiliging/7929...achterblijvers

And, Web Upd8 has published about StartUbuntu too  :Smile: 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/webupd8/pos...51870366336203

Google+: https://plus.google.com/u/0/10191298...ts/5mK5Vp6UEuj

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## Erik1984

Nice to read about this in Dutch  :Smile:  Good work to attract so much publicity for it.

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## amjjawad

Another website but this time, with Italian Language  :Smile: 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...pread_The_Word

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## monkeybrain20122

Good initiative, though I don't think it should be targeting just xp users, like others say many XP machines are old and in need of upgrading anyway and true that there are people with newer hardware running XP (my brother) but they are probably rare or have special reasons (x program or printer only work with XP etc) By focusing just on XP it may give the inaccurate impression that Linux is a 2nd tier OS good only for very old hardware.Maybe you can add a statement "Ubuntu will be great too if you hate Windows 8!"  :Smile:  Indeed if I have a very old  XP machine my choice wouldn't be Ubuntu, something like debian with a light desktop (LXDE or xfce) would make more sense (I had one of these which finally died. Couldn't get any *buntu after 11.10 to work on it probably because  kernel dropped support for something very old, Debian Lenny worked though)

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## amjjawad

> Good initiative, though I don't think it should be targeting just xp users


For now, StartUbuntu is focusing on Windows XP, simply because: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu#Why





> like others say many XP machines are old and in need of upgrading anyway


"Do not fix it if it is not yet broken" - I do believe in this  :Smile: 

*My personal theory:* _if any upgrade would even cost 1$ and that upgrade is pointless as long as there is a Linux System that can be installed on that machine and breathe new life into it, then why to upgrade when the current available resources are more than enough?_

Another theory (which is Linux Arch's way of thinking): Unused RAM is wasted RAM.
As most Hardware Upgrade is related to RAM Upgrade. Changing a HDD is not a real upgrade IMHO beside HDDs could die faster than RAM. As for CPU, again, if it works and do the tasks I want, I would never upgrade.

But yes, this is really depend on the user him/her self. What exactly that user is doing? Graphics? Gaming? Browsing and Emails? 




> and true that there are people with newer hardware running XP (my brother) but they are probably rare or have special reasons (x program or printer only work with XP etc)


We have no data or numbers. There is no time to run a survey nor waste any second and energy to do that. So, we don't know how many with newer Hardware are using Windows XP? and to be honest, no need to go into this discussion. The whole project is to make life easier not complicated  :Wink: 




> By focusing just on XP it may give the inaccurate impression that Linux is a 2nd tier OS good only for very old hardware.


Again, it could appear this is focusing on Windows XP Users only and that is true, that is the main focus but no one says 'ONLY' for Windows XP  :Wink: 
When websites with different languages publish articles about StartUbuntu, many users will read that and surely they have different kinds of systems. So, who said we are ONLY targeting Windows XP?  :Smile:  but definitely, we should focus on that because April 2014 is not far away!




> Maybe you can add a statement "Ubuntu will be great too if you hate Windows 8!"


We are spreading 'Love' not 'Hate'.





> Indeed if I have a very old  XP machine my choice wouldn't be Ubuntu, something like debian with a light desktop (LXDE or xfce) would make more sense


You are speaking about 'yourself' but for someone who never heard nor seen Linux? I don't think that would be an easy option but that would push him miles away and make him/her go for Windows 7/8 and this is not what we want to do.




> (I had one of these which finally died. Couldn't get any *buntu after 11.10 to work on it probably because  kernel dropped support for something very old, Debian Lenny worked though)


For 3 years with Lubuntu, I've seen so rare cases when someone has a machine that can't run Lubuntu. We are not talking here about P2 with 64MB RAM, simply because, these machines can not be used nowadays. Why? not because there is no system to be installed on such hardware BUT, the real main reason is: EVEN if you have installed Linux on such machine, what exactly are you expecting to do? we are in 2013 and P2 with 64MB RAM can not perform any task. I have P2 with 64MB RAM. I have installed 11.10 and it worked. But, that was the as far as I managed to go. Beyond that, it is impossible. Any application you may think of, it will need much more a P2 and 64MB RAM and I don't think Windows XP can be installed on that machine because it was installed on my P2 and 64MB RAM and I had to wait 10mins for a right click!!!!

So, if someone really really still has such very ancient Hardware, I'd suggest he/she keeps it as a history because it would be a total waste of time to recruit that. We are talking about machines which can perform at least the nowadays tasks. Having that said, we should not look below 256MB RAM.

I struggled ONE month just to install Linux on this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php...&postcount=152
I did that to learn, prove something to myself and to others that nothing impossible with Linux but that was just a test for fun, learning and maybe promoting Linux. That was 2 years ago. If I have the same machine toady, I would not waste my time with it.

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## monkeybrain20122

> We have no data or numbers. There is no time to run a survey nor waste any second and energy to do that. So, we don't know how many with newer Hardware are using Windows XP? and to be honest, no need to go into this discussion. The whole project is to make life easier not complicated 
> 
> 
> .


You don't need to actually do a survey to take a stab at estimating the percentage. After all science makes predictions before you confirm (or refute) them with data.  :Smile: 

 How do people acquire Windows? Either OEM or they install it themselves. If You have post Vista hardware then OEM would not have put xp in there, how many Windows users who buy OEM machines would go through the troubles of swapping out the default OS? if you purchase a non OEM machine after Windows 7 release what would be the reason for you to go out of your way to buy a retail copy of XP while Windows 7 was the featured OS everywhere? I was in Asia in 2009 and I had a hard time finding XP in retail and it was actually more expensive than 7 or Vista because of the short supply. 

So people who are running Windows XP are people who acquired their hardware before 2009 and haven't upgraded the OS (granted that Vista sucks so there would be incentive to stay with XP even if Vista is available), and a small number who need to get XP "out of the way" for some reasons, but it is reasonable to assume that *some* people who have pre Windows vista hardware did end upgrading so that left even less XP users. 

The only people left out are those running unauthorized copies of XP (i.e cracked versions), it is hard to estimate how many such people are out there, but in countries like China and India it probably accounts for a very large proportion if not the majority of XP use today. Not sure if they really worry about MS support if they run a cracked OS.

EDITED: there are of course enterprise or business users that are still using XP, but they have their own upgrade logic and schedules so the campaign is not targeting these people anyway.

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## walterorlin

Some people might have multiple sets of hardware and kept the old computers around some. I know I did with one of my lubuntu machines. The first one is an old xp computer the internal hard drive broke on but with a workaround with plop so I have a machine that has 512 mb ram and a 2tb hard drive because that was the only external one I had around. I bought another comp in 2009 so it not just don't upgrade hardware it can be not getting rid of old stuff as well.

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## mastablasta

well i planned to upgrade before (max out the ram at 16GB, add SSD, better dual core CPU and yes windows 7 :-p), but at the time i had no money to spend on that. while later RAM got a lot more expencive (i still upgraded it a little to 4 GB). but CPU remained single core as they stopped selling duals and hexas for my slot. so in the end i decided not to upgrade and continue to run XP for some time. i will probably add Kubuntu to one partition.
i used to run win98 SE ifor a really long tie. i would probably not switch to XP at the time on that old maschine but the 98 couldn't read the 1GB stick of ram porpperly.

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## sudodus

Old personal computers are often _desktops_ (some years ago you got more performance per euro than with a laptop). And it is fairly easy to find another used hard disk drive (for example from a scrapped old machine). So if you want dual boot, it may be easier to _install a second internal drive_ and install Lubuntu or another Ubuntu flavour into it. Much easier and less risky than to house-clean and shrink the Windows partition, that might be rather full  :Smile: 

And the installation would be done easily with the One Button Installer

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## makitso

I belong to a computer club with guys with an age group of 45-74.  It's interesting that quite a few are on winxp.  I just sent out an email to the guys asking why;  is it cost, HW, games, or what?  Will post responses.

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## amjjawad

> I belong to a computer club with guys with an age group of 45-74.  It's interesting that quite a few are on winxp.  I just sent out an email to the guys asking why;  is it cost, HW, games, or what?  Will post responses.


Make sure to spread the word and invite them to Linux  :Wink: 

Thank you for your help  :Very Happy:

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## amjjawad

The Difference between Microsoft and Free and Open Source Software Community is:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/314865




> *Important notice for users of Windows XP:*  To continue receiving security updates for  Windows, make sure that you're running Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3).   *The support for Windows XP with Service Pack 3 ends April 8, 2014. If  youre running Windows XP with Service Pack 3 (SP3) after support ends,  to ensure that you will receive all important security updates for  Windows, you need to upgrade to a later version, such as Windows 8*.





> *you need to upgrade to a later version, such as Windows 8*


Why?
"Give me, one good reason, why do I have to do that as a Windows XP Users?" << this Question must be asked by Windows XP Users!

Now, seriously, why would someone upgrade to Windows 8 which almost all those who used it, did not like it. I'm puzzled!

Can't they simply say:

"you need to upgrade to a later version, such as Windows 8 _or go for other alternatives such is OSX/Linux_" ?????

Of course they won't, that is why there is StartUbuntu!


And by the way, 64MB for Windows XP? seriously? that could be enough ONLY after installing Windows XP without any driver and nothing whatsoever. Try to install more stuff and the machine will die!

Sigh, I wish I could edit their link and add "Linux"  :Capital Razz:

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## sudodus

> I belong to a computer club with guys with an age group of 45-74.  It's interesting that quite a few are on winxp.  I just sent out an email to the guys asking why;  is it cost, HW, games, or what?  Will post responses.


I can't wait for your post about the responses  :Razz:

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## aysiu

> Why?
> "Give me, one good reason, why do I have to do that as a Windows XP Users?" << this Question must be asked by Windows XP Users!
> 
> Now, seriously, why would someone upgrade to Windows 8 which almost all those who used it, did not like it. I'm puzzled!
> 
> Can't they simply say:
> 
> "you need to upgrade to a later version, such as Windows 8 _or go for other alternatives such is OSX/Linux_" ?????
> 
> Of course they won't, that is why there is StartUbuntu!


 It would make no sense for Microsoft to push competitors such as Mac OS X or Ubuntu. Why would Microsoft do that?

I don't really understand your objection here. Of course you don't get security updates for an outdated operating system. Ubuntu 5.04 users don't get security updates, nor do Ubuntu 9.10 users. If you want security updates, you have to use a recent version of the operating system. Microsoft still offers security updates for Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8. If someone wanted to stay with Windows, I'd recommend her jumping from XP to Windows 7 (I'm not a fan of Windows 8).

Only if she expressed interest in trying something new (without any prompting from me or some Linux zealot) would I recommend Linux.

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## amjjawad

> It would make no sense for Microsoft to push competitors such as Mac OS X or Ubuntu. Why would Microsoft do that?


I do know that  :Wink: 




> I don't really understand your objection here.


Maybe because you don't know my way of being sarcastic at Microsoft  :Wink: 




> Of course you don't get security updates for an outdated operating system. Ubuntu 5.04 users don't get security updates, nor do Ubuntu 9.10 users. If you want security updates, you have to use a recent version of the operating system. Microsoft still offers security updates for Windows Vista, Windows 7, and Windows 8. If someone wanted to stay with Windows, I'd recommend her jumping from XP to Windows 7 (I'm not a fan of Windows 8).


You really think I don't know that?  :Very Happy: 





> Only if she expressed interest in trying something new (without any prompting from me or some Linux zealot) would I recommend Linux.


She? who is she?

Edit:
I posted my previous post and quoted Microsoft's Link to support our cause, nothing more, nothing less  :Smile: 
Hope it is clear now!

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## monkeybrain20122

> If someone wanted to stay with Windows, I'd recommend her jumping from XP to Windows 7 (I'm not a fan of Windows 8).
> 
> Only if she expressed interest in trying something new (without any prompting from me or some Linux zealot) would I recommend Linux.


That goes without saying. But many people are on Windows not necessary because they *want* to stay with Windows, just because it comes with their computers. I think those are the people the campaign targets. My question to amjjwad is that perhaps not too many people like that are still on XP unless they have pre vista hardware and some of which would be painful to run current versions of Ubuntu (Ram is part of it, but also unsupported graphic drivers and kernel dropping support for old hardware etc) 

I have made some recommendations for friends etc, but I don't target specially Windows XP users (I have had some success in switching people from Vista to Lubuntu, but I don't really know anyone still on XP, except my brother, but he uses it for very special reasons, and a few people with hardware so old that I wouldn't even bother). It is actually easier than you think to get people off Windows, many have $ would easily switch to Mac even though they don't use it for anything special. The problem with Linux is that they have to install it themselves or someone (like me) would have to install it for them, and it is not always easy to find people who know how to support Linux in their vicinity, so, if they can't afford a Mac they would just upgrade Windows or buy a new Windows machine.

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## rrnbtter

Greetings,
The bulk of XP hold-outs are those companies that didn't want the expense of upgrading and licensing a new OS for multiply computers. I used to support a few law firms and they would put a paralegal behind anything that would still boot and run WordPerfect. The only part of my previous business that I still support is the real estate appraisal part. These computers run software that won't port to Linux. Most of these computers are updates that can easily run Win 7 or 8. They upgraded their hardware as needed and continued to use their XP Pro license. There have been times that some of these businesses would have been open to a Linux conversion but without the software it's a dead deal. Oddly, many of these programs in question are narrow in scope such as "Appraise-it" and could easily be ported to Linux. Somehow there has to be a wholesale demand for the conversion and porting. Most companies that use Linux on a large scale have used their own corporate programmers to create what we use today. That is what we need more of for Linux to move forward, corporate intervention. It is possible that the next few releases of Ubuntu will be sophisticated enought to attract that intervention. Even Saucy running x-mir beats anything that I have ever used.

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## ventrical

I recently tried to convert two senior users to  Ubuntu. The clients are  the age group of 65-70. Hours and hours of tutoring (free) and there is no way I could get them  to even try to understand Ubuntu Operating system. A large percentage of seniors in North America (and clients that I know) like to play Pogo Games online. That takes Java.  Ubuntu has Java in the USC but it is really hard to get it stable. One little burp or glitch and they (potential Ubuntu converts) want nothing to do with Ubuntu, but, they are willing to  sign over their machines to Java running on Vista or 7  with all of it's known malware.

  I have had greater success tutoring Ubuntu to women in the field of Education. They just love it. (Ubuntu).

  The bottom line is that if an end_user is not willing to learn or spend some time reading up, doing searches or is enthusiastic about learning Ubuntu - then - forget it. It is just not going to happen. And it's not about teaching old dogs new tricks either. It is just that some end_users become so ingrained following one set of commands for so long that  it is almost like learning a new language when trying to convert to a different OS.

 However  .. with the economy the way it is and the XP eol  on the doorstep, perhaps people will be more willing to give Ubuntu a spin. I still do installs of Lucid for people. The repos are still open as is the USC although there are not any new security updates (like really this matters eh - I have Lucid Installs that haven't even hiccuped since the original install).

Also for senior users (or potential converts) is that they are shy (or scared) of how  Unity works. It confuses them right off and if they see an error pop-up after a re-boot they immediately get frustrated and impatient with it.  It is because of this required learning curve that I am wary of who I will spend time teaching Ubuntu to in the field.

  Personally I have had tremendous success with Ubuntu but when  taking up new converts I have to give myself a reality check and ask myself how much time I have to babysit those installs. In Ubuntu's favor the help data base is so vast that it is relatively easy to solve big problems.  I think one of the core philosophies of Ubuntu concept is that we have to give it away to keep it...and so I do and I will.  :Smile: 

   ..also .. on a side note .. this WinXP eol situation is an opportunity for Canonical to really get out there and hone their marketing skills .  It could be the big paradigm that will level the playing field.

Regards...

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## sudodus

+1

This is close to my experience, maybe with the difference, that I focus more on the light-weight flavours Lubuntu and Xubuntu, particularly for old hardware.

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## ventrical

I had Raring with Mate desktop running just fine on a PIII 750MHz... but it was getting there that was the task. 

Regards..

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## sudodus

The One Button Installer is a shortcut for installing into old hardware with low RAM, where the ordinary installers have problems. Try it if you haven't done it yet  :Smile:

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## Elfy

> The One Button Installer is a shortcut for installing into old hardware with low RAM, where the ordinary installers have problems. Try it if you haven't done it yet


We know - you've already said that in this thread  :Wink:

----------


## ventrical

> The One Button Installer is a shortcut for installing into old hardware with low RAM, where the ordinary installers have problems. Try it if you haven't done it yet



I'll give it a whirl later on .. but my point is .. for a noob ...we loose them right there. It's better to have a Lubuntu Live image on a 2GB pen drive. Works anywhere  :Smile:  I mean .. for me .. it was very convincing , however, I haven't tried it on clients. I find it better to try and explain Ubuntu Linux through Lucid.

Thanks for the link! 

Regards..

----------


## amjjawad

> That goes without saying. But many people are on Windows not necessary because they *want* to stay with Windows, just because it comes with their computers.


+1

The man who had done it just for fun and he wasn't so serious, he has mentioned a very important point, IMHO. Here is what he said. I'm sure Linus, if he really wants, he can do something about it but as far as I can tell, I don't think he cares that much but that is just a guess. Or, my guess could be totally wrong and he had already tried that but it might be too hard to achieve - this is a totally different story so I prefer not to go for that.




> I think those are the people the campaign targets.


Basically, this campaign should not target Windows XP Users ONLY. However, as I have mentioned many times before, because and only because Windows XP support (AKA EOL) will come very soon (April 2014 - same month of releasing 14.04 LTS), the whole focus may seem towards Windows XP  :Smile:  
I hope this is clear enough. In fact, we have to focus on that and once we achieve what we are looking for, it would be easier then to approach others with Windows 7 and Windows 8.
IMHO, at that time, we don't really have to do anything  :Wink:  I am sure Windows XP Users who migrated to Linux, will do that after they will see what Linux is capable of.




> My question to amjjwad is that perhaps not too many people like that are still on XP unless they have pre vista hardware and some of which would be painful to run current versions of Ubuntu (Ram is part of it, but also unsupported graphic drivers and kernel dropping support for old hardware etc)


I have met, seen and talked to people with newer hardware which can support eve Windows 7 but they insist to use Windows XP. Those would be the hardest group of people to approach. They don't even update their system. How many are they? I have no idea. Yes, they most likely are using Cracked/illegal version of Windows XP.

I am not saying we should convert each and everyone to Linux. This is just non-sense. This is not the mission of this campaign. The mission of this campaign is to reach to as many Windows XP Users (mainly) as possible and if successful, we would also approach others who are using Windows 7 or 8.

For me? I am not doing this for 99% success. If you ask me? I would be very glad and happy if we could achieve even 10%. Simply, because those 10% can convert others and so on. There are many types of users:

1- Users who haven't heard, seen nor tried Linux on their entire life at all.

2- Users who haven't install Linux despite the fact they have seen it. They just think it is too complicated for them.

3- Users who have tried and install Linux but still keeping Windows XP as a Dual-Boot (for example) for whatever reason

4- Users who don't care what system they have, they just want something to work and that is all.

IMHO, above are the main 4 categories of users that exist in the world.

What StartUbuntu is targeting?

#1 and #2 and #4

#3 they already have Linux so no need to waste time nor energy with them. They know what Linux is.

#4 most likely have less experience (in general) with Computers - why would someone still insist to run unsupported or old version while there are tons of other alternatives? unless he/she has less general knowledge of computers. And, if they do have the basic experience, they just refuse to switch or even upgrade for whatever reason they have in mind. Those category is the toughest. That is why, if there is a failure ratio in StartUbuntu campaign, it might be because of this category.

#1 and #2 are easy target IMHO (easy to convert but we may need extra efforts, especially for #1).

#2 are the easiest group to be converted. They just need to make sure someone will take them under their wings and that is all. Most of them are scared from Terminal, etc.





> I have made some recommendations for friends etc, but I don't target specially Windows XP users (I have had some success in switching people from Vista to Lubuntu, but I don't really know anyone still on XP, except my brother, but he uses it for very special reasons, and a few people with hardware so old that I wouldn't even bother).


Exactly, and there are many just like your brother  :Smile: 

How old these machines are???





> It is actually easier than you think to get people off Windows, many have $ would easily switch to Mac even though they don't use it for anything special.


I won't even bother with those people. They have money and they are ready to buy anything just because their friends got that very expensive device so they want to do the same. How did I know? I have seen so many with my very eyes. So, StartUbuntu should not really bother with them. Even though it is not bad idea but we are simply not going to knock on each and every door, we are spreading the word and whoever will see that on the internet or real life, he/she is more than welcome to join  :Smile: 





> The problem with Linux is that they have to install it themselves or someone (like me) would have to install it for them, and it is not always easy to find people who know how to support Linux in their vicinity, so, if they can't afford a Mac they would just upgrade Windows or buy a new Windows machine.


Yes and No.
I have indeed took that into consideration but you have missed a very important point. We are in 2013 and now in 1994. I mean, the internet is FULL of HOWTOs, Guides, YouTubes, etc. It is very easy to find so many resources which can help you even if you haven't seen Linux before. Well, if they are too lazy to even google, then this is their problem as no one will come and feed them  :Wink:  they need to feed themselves. We will show them the way, the rest is up to them and we are ready to help as much as we can.

And, those who can't afford a Mac and might just upgrade Windows, are possibly the same people who might go for Linux for the exact same reason!

Thank you!

----------


## amjjawad

> Greetings,
> The bulk of XP hold-outs are those companies that didn't want the expense of upgrading and licensing a new OS for multiply computers. I used to support a few law firms and they would put a paralegal behind anything that would still boot and run WordPerfect. The only part of my previous business that I still support is the real estate appraisal part. These computers run software that won't port to Linux. Most of these computers are updates that can easily run Win 7 or 8. They upgraded their hardware as needed and continued to use their XP Pro license. There have been times that some of these businesses would have been open to a Linux conversion but without the software it's a dead deal. Oddly, many of these programs in question are narrow in scope such as "Appraise-it" and could easily be ported to Linux. Somehow there has to be a wholesale demand for the conversion and porting. Most companies that use Linux on a large scale have used their own corporate programmers to create what we use today. That is what we need more of for Linux to move forward, corporate intervention. It is possible that the next few releases of Ubuntu will be sophisticated enought to attract that intervention. Even Saucy running x-mir beats anything that I have ever used.


This is a different story if you ask me.
StartUbuntu is focusing on Users not Companies at this stage.

Companies, usually, they do know exactly what they want and what they need to do. No company in this world that want to spend so much money unless they really have to.

I will leave converting companies to Canonical  :Wink: 
Let's worry about the users first.

However, there are many companies are migrating. I have two friends and both confirmed to me that their different companies have migrated to Kubuntu. What I am trying to say here is, business wise and companies, they do know about Linux in most cases  :Smile:

----------


## amjjawad

> I recently tried to convert two senior users to  Ubuntu. The clients are  the age group of 65-70. Hours and hours of tutoring (free) and there is no way I could get them  to even try to understand Ubuntu Operating system. A large percentage of seniors in North America (and clients that I know) like to play Pogo Games online. That takes Java.  Ubuntu has Java in the USC but it is really hard to get it stable. One little burp or glitch and they (potential Ubuntu converts) want nothing to do with Ubuntu, but, they are willing to  sign over their machines to Java running on Vista or 7  with all of it's known malware.
> 
>   I have had greater success tutoring Ubuntu to women in the field of Education. They just love it. (Ubuntu).
> 
>   The bottom line is that if an end_user is not willing to learn or spend some time reading up, doing searches or is enthusiastic about learning Ubuntu - then - forget it. It is just not going to happen. And it's not about teaching old dogs new tricks either. It is just that some end_users become so ingrained following one set of commands for so long that  it is almost like learning a new language when trying to convert to a different OS.
> 
>  However  .. with the economy the way it is and the XP eol  on the doorstep, perhaps people will be more willing to give Ubuntu a spin. I still do installs of Lucid for people. The repos are still open as is the USC although there are not any new security updates (like really this matters eh - I have Lucid Installs that haven't even hiccuped since the original install).
> 
> Also for senior users (or potential converts) is that they are shy (or scared) of how  Unity works. It confuses them right off and if they see an error pop-up after a re-boot they immediately get frustrated and impatient with it.  It is because of this required learning curve that I am wary of who I will spend time teaching Ubuntu to in the field.
> ...


I am not going to repeat what I have already posted but just few points:

1- This is a community campaign not Canonical one.
2- This is not only about Ubuntu, we are talking about 8 alternatives (Ubuntu and all its official flavours - depends on what the user needs).
3- StartUbuntu is not looking for 100% success. If 1 out of 1000 users will be converted and migrated to Linux, this is a huge success. Spreading the word of Linux deserves more and more IMHO.

Anyway, I am aware of what you have mentioned for old people, etc. 
Thanks for sharing and let's see what will happen from now until April, 2014  :Smile:

----------


## sudodus

> I'll give it a whirl later on .. but my point is .. for a noob ...we loose them right there. It's better to have a Lubuntu Live image on a 2GB pen drive. Works anywhere  I mean .. for me .. it was very convincing , however, I haven't tried it on clients. I find it better to try and explain Ubuntu Linux through Lucid.
> 
> Thanks for the link! 
> 
> Regards..


That is certainly a possibility too. Would you prefer a _regular live desktop install iso image_, a '_persistent live_' or an '_installed system_'? If you mean 'installed system' there is one for a 4GB pendrive here, that you can flash directly without any installer -- flash in the same way as you flash the system for a mobile phone! But it is not as flexible as the OBI, that uses the whole device (HDD, SSD, USB pendrive, flash memory).

The regular live desktop install iso image is best with a cheap and slow USB pendrive because it uses ramdisk (at least when there is a reasonable amount of RAM). See this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...#Prerequisites

----------


## amjjawad

> That is certainly a possibility too. Would you prefer a _regular live desktop install iso image_, a '_persistent live_' or an '_installed system_'? If you mean 'installed system' there is one for a 4GB pendrive here, that you can flash directly without any installer -- flash in the same way as you flash the system for a mobile phone! But it is not as flexible as the OBI, that uses the whole device (HDD, SSD, USB pendrive, flash memory).
> 
> The regular live desktop install iso image is best with a cheap and slow USB pendrive because it uses ramdisk (at least when there is a reasonable amount of RAM). See this link https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...#Prerequisites


Hi my friend,

I'd appreciate if we could please stick to the subject of this thread and not go off-topic, if I may ask you that  :Smile: 

Thank you!

----------


## sudodus

> Hi my friend,
> 
> I'd appreciate if we could please stick to the subject of this thread and not go off-topic, if I may ask you that 
> 
> Thank you!


But that question to _ventrical_ is asking what kind of live image he wants to use to convince people about the advantages of linux.




> It's better to have a Lubuntu Live image on a 2GB pen drive. Works anywhere  I mean .. for me .. it was very convincing


I know that he knows enough to make his own systems.

-o-

What about you _amjjawad_? Have you considered some kind of demo system? _What_ should be offered to the Windows XP user, and _how_ should it be presented?

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Yes and No.
> I have indeed took that into consideration but you have missed a very important point. We are in 2013 and now in 1994. I mean, the internet is FULL of HOWTOs, Guides, YouTubes, etc. It is very easy to find so many resources which can help you even if you haven't seen Linux before. Well, if they are too lazy to even google, then this is their problem as no one will come and feed them  they need to feed themselves. We will show them the way, the rest is up to them and we are ready to help as much as we can.


Well this is a main point. Windows (and Mac) users by and large  do expect to be spoon fed,--or better you chew and eat for them,--they don't want to have to do things themselves by reading Howtos and guides etc. Many people are just intimidated by technical stuffs, they want to be able to use a computer and then forget about it. I know countless such people (in fact most computer users I know fall into this category) I have a friend who just got a  well paid job on some tech support desk which serves customers over the phone, he says all he does is sitting on his a$$ all day googling and then speak to his clients in an authoritative voice as if he is an expert.  :Smile: 




> I won't even bother with those people. They have money and they are  ready to buy anything just because their friends got that very expensive  device so they want to do the same. How did I know? I have seen so many  with my very eyes. So, StartUbuntu should not really bother with them.  Even though it is not bad idea but we are simply not going to knock on  each and every door, we are spreading the word and whoever will see that  on the internet or real life, he/she is more than welcome to join


My point was simply that many people did not "choose" Windows, there is no brand loyalty to MicroSoft for many average users, that was responding to aysiu that people choose to stay with Windows, most time there is no choice involved, many would choose a Mac if they could afford it (or even Linux if tech support is available.)





> Exactly, and there are many just like your brother 
> 
> How old these machines are???


He has some very old finger print reading software which he had paid a lot for and had gone out of business for almost as long as Ubuntu has been around. It runs only on XP (not even Winodws 7 compat mode, not sure about vbox).  There may be a Linux equivalent but I don't know these kind of software, he googled and found some tarball (also very old) which he thought would be similar, but I couldn't get it to compile because it requires very old libraries that are no longer supported (except maybe on Centos or something like that). His computer is very new and powerful though, I have booted Ubuntu 12.04 off an external drive and holy smoke, it is lighting fast. So hardware no problem, he just doesn't want to switch. It is a new machine but his desktop and wall paper looks like 1980.  :Smile:

----------


## ventrical

> But that question to _ventrical_ is asking what kind of live image he wants to use to convince people about the advantages of *...*


I just use the persitive option from SDC while installing the iso to pendrive. Lubuntu has always been fast, furious and to the point. It will work on any machine with a USB port or you can boot from a live CD. This of course for legacy machines.

----------


## sudodus

> I just use the persitive option from SDC while installing the iso to pendrive. Lubuntu has always been fast, furious and to the point. It will work on any machine with a USB port or you can boot from a live CD. This of course for legacy machines.


So your experience is that a persistent live standard USB 2 pendrive  performs well enough to convince people. That's great, because such  pendrives are quite cheap today  :Very Happy: 

I'm thinking aloud now: What  tweaks would make such a pendrive more attractive? That makes it  worthwhile to use persistence although it makes the pendrive slower  compared to a standard live USB drive?

- touchpad-indicator (for laptops and netbooks)
- ubuntu-tweak
- ...

Or is the _persistence_ impressive enough?

----------


## vicsar

> I know quite a few people still using XP. In the internet cafes they are all XPs.


Yes, is a scary world out there. Some of these workstations are not even up to date whit service packs.

 :Brick wall:

----------


## mastablasta

> I'm thinking aloud now: What tweaks would make such a pendrive more attractive? That makes it worthwhile to use persistence although it makes the pendrive slower compared to a standard live USB drive?


most people would likely want to see if You tube works well and also if they can play movie and mp3 music. so restricted extras on that persistance might be a good idea.

----------


## sudodus

> most people would likely want to see if You tube works well and also if they can play movie and mp3 music. so restricted extras on that persistance might be a good idea.


Yes, is a good idea to add restricted extra  :KDE Star:

----------


## MRubunt

To celebrate the end ox windows xp , i made a Countdown .  It would be a great idea to make a simple site, with a countdown  to the end of xp  and  some  explanation to switch to ubuntu .

----------


## AllenGG

*This is great !!!! * 
good going, hope this gets around!



> To celebrate the end ox windows xp , i made a Countdown .  It would be a great idea to make a simple site, with a countdown  to the end of xp  and  some  explanation to switch to ubuntu .

----------


## amjjawad

> To celebrate the end ox windows xp , i made a Countdown .  It would be a great idea to make a simple site, with a countdown  to the end of xp  and  some  explanation to switch to ubuntu .


Hi,

This is very nice, thank you  :Smile: 

But is there a simple yet nice one that we could use it on our websites/blogs/etc ? can you do it?

----------


## kevpan8152

Believe me, I know a lot of people who are still on Windows XP and who are very stubborn about that April 8th, 2014 date as if it is still months away and that there is still plenty of time to Either Upgrade to something like Windows 7 or replace the computer entirely with a Windows 8.1 OEM Computer. Never mind the fact that OEM's like Dell and HP are still allowed to sell Original Windows 8 alongside Windows 8.1 because Windows 8.1 is a free update for Windows 8 users. That's the reason why I decided to go back to running Ubuntu 24/7/365. I don't like NON-UP-TO-DATE OEM's.

----------


## kevpan8152

> I just use the persitive option from SDC while installing the iso to pendrive. Lubuntu has always been fast, furious and to the point. It will work on any machine with a USB port or you can boot from a live CD. This of course for legacy machines.


I use Pen Drive as we'll. I occasionally have to switch back to Windows 8.1 to update my Apple IPhone 5S or to Update the UEFI Firmware, which is updated using a .exe so I update my Pen Drive with the latest Ubuntu Nightly Build at the same time.

----------


## kevpan8152

I usually allocate 1 GB of space for Ubuntu to save Files on the Pen Drive. As long as you do that, the USB Pen Drive will work just fine.

----------


## King Dude

Interesting. I'll have to share this around.

----------


## philinux

Move to U, L and OS chat

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## amjjawad

Hi,

As part of StartUbuntu Activities, I have started a Real Life Project to Convert the neighbourhood where I live from Windows to Linux. So far:

Project Convert My Neighbours From Windows to Linux Status Report

 5 Machines have been converted to Linux as of today:
 Machine 1 = lubuntu 13.10
 Machine 2 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
 Machine 3 = Xubuntu 13.10
 Machine 4 = Xubuntu 13.10
 Machine 5 = Lubuntu 13.10

Where I live, there are perhaps around 4000 people and we have a facebook group where we share lots of real life topics, post Q, seek help, etc. I have started to post and talk about Linux almost everyday so people are started to be interested and approached me to convert their machines to Linux. 

Some are super happy and have never asked one single Q while some other are having some hard time so I offered to go over their place and explain whatever they need to make life easier. It is a very great way, IMHO to spread the word of StartUbuntu, convert people to Linux and see how it goes when someone who had never ever seen Linux in his/her entire life to start actually using it  :Smile:  it is not an easy challenge but definitely, fun and interesting  :Smile: 

I was about to convert the 6th machine but it seems it has a Hardware Failure so I guess there is nothing can be done.

I'd suggest those who are interested to do the same with your neighbours, friends, etc. Don't over do it. Start with few and see how it goes. This is what I am doing. I don't want to go wild and install Linux to 20 people at the same time. I want to give them all the time they need to start get used to it.

Perhaps one of the challenges is Apple Products just as iTunes. PlayOnLinux isn't really helpful so far. Most of the people in my neighbourhood are Apple Users so that would be extra fun and challenge  :Smile: 

Thank you!

----------


## amjjawad

Project: Convert My Neighbours From Windows to Linux - Status Report

*6* Machines have been converted to Linux as of today:

 Machine 1 = lubuntu 13.10
 Machine 2 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
 Machine 3 = Xubuntu 13.10
 Machine 4 = Xubuntu 13.10
 Machine 5 = Lubuntu 13.10
*  Machine 6 = Xubuntu 12.04.3*

----------


## sotiris2

I see that you have installed both xubuntu 13.10 (latest) and 12.04 (lts). Was that your choice or did you inform the users of the update & support circle differences. Moreover do you plan to update any of those machines to the new lts when it's released?

----------


## AllenGG

Note to all :  soltiris has raised an interesting point.  Many of us following this thread have installed Ubuntu on numerous machines   (me, more than 20)
and we should emphasize that we often have NOT properly raised the upgrade issue., nor updating.  It is like Win XP repeating itself,
Originally I started doing the installs because  I was sick of fixing Windows crap.  Some installs done a few years back have not neen updated, but the users have said nothing.
Thoughts please
Allen

----------


## sotiris2

Well if it's LTS upgrades it's not so much of a problem as they get 5/3 (depending on flavor) years of support. I don't think having to update them in 5 years (without having to buy anything) is going to put someone as having to buy a new pc as an update between two windows versions usually needs.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

I may disagree with you here  :Smile: 
I am indeed informing my neighbours about the 'update' and 'upgrade' issue  :Smile:  
Above all, I am having a list of the names, addresses and the hardware of my neighbours and their phone numbers. I know when I shall contact them or go myself to do an upgrade to a newer version  :Smile: 

Beside, Lubuntu Installations vs Xubuntu Installations is a small ratio. I am focusing on installing Xubuntu 12.04.3 LTS for a good reason  :Smile:  
Some weak machines that better to put Lubuntu on are less than the machines I have put Xubuntu on. So no worries, in my case, I am keeping an eye and all those users are super new to Linux. They have never ever used nor seen Linux on their entire life. They are, for now, super happy with Linux  :Smile: 
Booting and shutting down the machine in seconds were more than enough to impress them. Again, they were using Windows or Apple their entire life. They are lucky to have a Linux Geek around to show them the bright side of life. 

Just yesterday, another neighbour gave me 4 old machines. I have converted 3 so far:
HP Mini with VIA C7 M CPU and 512MB RAM = Xubuntu 12.04.3 and YES, it is running now like a brand new
Samsung Mini with ATOM CPU = Lubuntu 13.10
Old HP Laptop (can't remember the model) with Centrino and 1GB RAM = Xubuntu 12.04.3 
and finally, a very old machine with 256MB RAM which would be a real challenge for me to put Linux (not sure yet which version or system) on it and hopefully, I will manage to do that.

So, as of today, 10 machines have been converted to Linux (another neighbor gave me her Core i3 with 3GB laptop - infected with tons of viruses running Win7 - now, breathing Xubuntu 12.04.3). However, there is one machine of these that I am a bit concerned about.

It is Asus Eee laptop which has Lubuntu 13.10 now.
That Laptop will be send to Malta and will be used by an old man who just needs Gmail and Facebook as far as what his daughter (my neighbour) told me. I am concerned because I am not sure if the 'upgrade' process be as smooth as it should be or someone has to have a look? 

I think I have a friend who lives in Malta and I think he can help but I am not sure yet about the details. Well, I better NOT think negatively and hope nothing wrong will happen  :Smile:

----------


## sudodus

I am very happy reading your post  :Very Happy: 




> Hi,
> 
> Above all, I am having a list of the names, addresses and the hardware of my neighbours and their phone numbers. I know when I shall contact them or go myself to do an upgrade to a newer version


I'm also helping friends and neighbours. Thanks for the tip about list of the names, addresses and the hardware of my neighbours and their phone numbers, to know when to contact them for upgrades!



> However, there is one machine of these that I am a bit concerned about. It is Asus Eee laptop which has Lubuntu 13.10 now.
> That Laptop will be send to Malta and will be used by an old man who just needs Gmail and Facebook as far as what his daughter (my neighbour) told me. I am concerned because I am not sure if the 'upgrade' process be as smooth as it should be or someone has to have a look? 
> 
> I think I have a friend who lives in Malta and I think he can help but I am not sure yet about the details. Well, I better NOT think negatively and hope nothing wrong will happen


Maybe you can install (and test) _teamviewer_ or some other software for easy access remotely. But a friend who can be there is the best solution.

----------


## AllenGG

Sudo says:
Maybe you can install (and test) _teamviewer_ or some other software for easy access remotely. But a friend who can be there is the best solution.[/QUOTE]

I looked here, and maybe this could be the answer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
says:  *Remote Administration*  24/7 access to remote computers and servers

OK, it infers that the target machine must be on hand ? correct ?
And, any experience with it ?
(as opposed to me phoning on Skype to a landline.)
gracias, Allen

----------


## sudodus

Yes, I have used Teamviewer (not only tested locally, but also used it over a long distance helping a friend via the internet). I have not used it many times, but I know that it works. The friend at the other end must start Teamviewer and give a code for the connection.

----------


## amjjawad

Update:

12 Machines have been converted to Linux as of today:

Machine 1 = lubuntu﻿ 13.10
Machine 2 = Xubuntu﻿ 12.04.3
Machine 3 = Xubuntu 13.10
Machine 4 = Xubuntu 13.10
Machine 5 = Lubuntu 13.10
Machine 6 = Xubuntu 12.4.3
Machine 7 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
Machine 8 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
Machine 9 = Xubuntu 12.04.4
Machine 10 = Lubuntu 13.10
_Machine 11 = SliTaz﻿ - Special Case_
Machine 12 = Lubuntu 13.10

Xubuntu = 7/12
Lubuntu = 4/12
SliTaz = 1/12

ALL are very old machine except one Core i3 first generation with 3GB RAM which got Xubuntu 12.04.3

Thank you  :Smile: 

P.S.
These are Real Life activities, NOT Online. I am doing the installations and everything myself.

----------


## MoebusNet

Something to keep in mind - the notebook computers from 2002-2004 (Dell, Thinkpad, etc.) that came with Pentium-M (low-power version of the Pentium 3) processors have a bug that will not allow them to boot the 386-PAE kernel (at least not without some command-line alterations to ignore the PAE flag). The last Ubuntu version to support non-PAE processors is 12.04, which will be replaced by 14.04 as I understand it. I am currently looking at Mint Linux Debian Edition, which still uses Debian's i386 kernel to support these old single-core processors. Other than the kernel issue for newer versions, Ubuntu 12.04 is still quite usable on my 1.4 Ghz Pentium-M with 2 Gb RAM & Nvidia GTX 5200 video card with 32 Mb VRAM.

----------


## sudodus

> Something to keep in mind - the notebook computers from 2002-2004 (Dell, Thinkpad, etc.) that came with Pentium-M (low-power version of the Pentium 3) processors have a bug that will not allow them to boot the 386-PAE kernel (at least not without some command-line alterations to ignore the PAE flag). The last Ubuntu version to support non-PAE processors is 12.04, which will be replaced by 14.04 as I understand it. I am currently looking at Mint Linux Debian Edition, which still uses Debian's i386 kernel to support these old single-core processors. Other than the kernel issue for newer versions, Ubuntu 12.04 is still quite usable on my 1.4 Ghz Pentium-M with 2 Gb RAM & Nvidia GTX 5200 video card with 32 Mb VRAM.


There is a way to get those 'command-line alterations' automatically with https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu-fake-PAE

----------


## amjjawad

I forgot to update the list. 13 Laptop has been converted to Linux  :Smile: 

This time, Ubuntu GNOME 13.10 - machine is Toshiba Core i5 1st generation with 3GB RAM. Worked like a charm!

----------


## amjjawad

> I am very happy reading your post


And I am happy to see you here, my good friend  :Smile: 




> I'm also helping friends and neighbours.


That is great news, keep it up  :Very Happy: 




> Thanks for the tip about list of the names, addresses and the hardware of my neighbours and their phone numbers, to know when to contact them for upgrades!


You most welcome  :Smile: 
The most important note/information of all is the system that I have installed. It does not really matter what hardware that user has, what does matter is the system I installed.

I can't hide it. I am worried about those installations of Lubuntu 13.10 - remember the nasty zRAM bug? - I just hope when they will update their system via the GUI, they won't break it.
As for 'Upgrading', I think I will send them the command and ask them to run it on Terminal with Screenshots and everything and if I have to, chat with them on Skype, Google Hangout or make a video on YouTube. In fact, it should NOT be hard at all. While they are very new and fresh users to Linux, they don't call or contact me much due to the fact that all of them are super busy and they don't have time to break their system  :Very Happy:  I really hope that.





> Maybe you can install (and test) _teamviewer_ or some other software for easy access remotely. But a friend who can be there is the best solution.


The user I installed Lubuntu 13.10 for her on ASUS Eee Laptop (it is a mini laptop), she arrived to Malta and sent me a message on facebook. She forgot how to connect to the Wireless Network. With few instructions, she managed to do it in few seconds so I am glad that wasn't a big deal. However, she will give that laptop to her father. When she will come back, he will be alone so hope that friend of mine in Malta could be helpful, just in case  :Smile: 

By the way, the 13 machines I have converted to Linux are not the only machines I have come across. I had to deal with few 'dead' machines and had to deal with ... I guess 3 Windows machines that I didn't convert. Two their users didn't want to make the switch (one said he will call but never did) and the other wasn't interested even for a Dual-Boot. The 3rd Windows Machine had Windows 8 :/ that was my very first time I 'see' Windows 8 and I hated my life that day. 

There are many who said they will call after the new year so I am waiting.

I am not sure if I will mange to hit 20 before the end of this year but I will do my best next year to at least convert minimum of 10 per month.

----------


## amjjawad

StartUbuntu needs some help!

StartUbuntu on Social Media

Thank you in advance!

----------


## amjjawad

As of today, 15 Machines have been converted to Linux as of today:

Machine 1 = lubuntu﻿ 13.10
Machine 2 = Xubuntu﻿ 12.04.3
Machine 3 = Xubuntu 13.10
Machine 4 = Xubuntu 13.10
Machine 5 = Lubuntu 13.10
Machine 6 = Xubuntu 12.4.3
Machine 7 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
Machine 8 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
Machine 9 = Xubuntu 12.04.4
Machine 10 = Lubuntu 13.10
_Machine 11 = SliTaz GNU/Linux﻿ - Special Case_
Machine 12 = Lubuntu 13.10
Machine 13 = Ubuntu GNOME﻿ 13.10
Machine 14 = Lubuntu 13.10
Machine 15 = Xubuntu 12.04.3

#Xubuntu = 8/15
#Lubuntu = 5/15
#Ubuntu_GNOME = 1/15
#SliTaz = 1/15

I hope I could find 5 more to convert before the new year  :Smile: 

On a side note, Merry Christmas and hope we will convert as many Windows XP users as possible  :Smile: 
The 15th laptop 'had' Windows XP and now, it is breathing Xubuntu!

What about you? are you converting people in real life? 

I have started in Oct as far as I remember but Oct had very few. Nov and Dec had more laptops to convert. The more I convert, the more people start to be interested. It is not an easy mission to convert the whole neighbourhood which has around 4000 people or more and as you know, some of them have more than one machine. One of them gave me 5 different laptops, all have been converted to Linux.

I think the best way to reach to even more people is by some video. I am thinking to create videos and upload them to YouTube and share it on our Facebook Group where all the neighbours meet on social media.

----------


## xpinkprincesslysx

I'm new to Ubuntu, but I can attempt to help  :Smile: 

I think the project should focus on things like...

Do you love using ____ on your current computer? Well, you'll love (insert same or similar application here) just as much (or more)!

People that I know are afraid to switch to newer machines because of compatibility reasons, and the reason of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". There needs to be a really convincing way to at least make people want to try using a new os. Maybe a way of "trying" would help ease some converters...like a known volunteer install person who will install the os for free and provide free support when needed. Also, there should be a stress on the word FREE  :Wink:

----------


## amjjawad

> I'm new to Ubuntu, but I can attempt to help


Hello and Welcome to Ubuntu Forums and thank you for choosing and using Ubuntu/Linux  :Smile: 




> I think the project should focus on things like...
> 
> Do you love using ____ on your current computer? Well, you'll love (insert same or similar application here) just as much (or more)!


The main focus to communicate to the world that Windows XP will be expire soon. To be more accurate, to reach out to Windows XP Users all around the world. It is not impossible mission but yes, it is not easy. However, if we work as one team, each on his/her location, it would be easy enough. 





> People that I know are afraid to switch to newer machines because of compatibility reasons, and the reason of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!". There needs to be a really convincing way to at least make people want to try using a new os. Maybe a way of "trying" would help ease some converters...like a known volunteer install person who will install the os for free and provide free support when needed. Also, there should be a stress on the word FREE


For the 15 machines I converted to Linux in two months, I didn't really have to talk too much. People were quickly convinced. I didn't even have to knock the door of my neighbours, they did send me themselves. I just had to post about Linux every now and then at the beginning and in a month or so, every day, few emails in my Facebook Inbox and I have done the installation myself. NONE of them have installed Linux, I have done that for them. I have given all the information they needed. I went to some people at their place to do very simple things. One of them had problem to connect his Toshiba (he was about to trash it but when he saw Linux breathed new life into it, he became super happy) laptop with Xubuntu 13.10 IIRC to his TV (LCD) with HDMI connection. I went to his place and in few mins, all set and worked like a charm. Until now, he never called nor sent anything  :Smile: 

Some laptops had hardware failure.
One other laptop came back to me so had to re-install Xubuntu and that is all.

Now, there is the very first laptop I converted to Linux. It has a technical issue and AFAIK, it seems a hardware issue. Rather than that, all machine worked fine.

The reason why my neighbours were easily convinced to migrate to Linux is because all of them asked me to help them to look into their dead machine. Of course, most of these machine 'had' Windows XP.  So, they were sick and tired of Windows and that what made the mission in Real Life for me really easy.

By the way, there are some machines which are dead. I tried with this for example but it was hopeless.

Some other told me they will contact me after the new year in Jan 2014.

I posted on Facebook where our Real Life neighbourhood group is to tell everyone with 'old' machine to never get rid of it. There are many people wanted to trash their old machines. I told them please DO NOT do that yet. I was so glad that Linux breathed new life and that I managed to draw a smile on their faces.

That is not enough. I am planning for a massive campaign soon so I can at least reach 100 in one month (85 to go) but I guess this is a very high target because I will have to install on more than 2 laptops per day (nearly 3 per day). Let's see. Most of them promised to keep talking about Linux to their friends and colleagues. 

Where I live, people don't really care whether to pay for an Apple machine or new Laptop with Windows 8 because they have no time to look for alternatives. However, they would definitely appreciate to save some money.

----------


## dale whipkey

I have a dell inspiron e1405 60 gig hd, 512mb ram 1.8 core processer. First had karmic on it worked great, it came with windows xp it was slow. Upgraded to lucid and had many problems, went back to karmic till i tried lubuntu 12.04. Computer works great did upgrade the memory to 2 gigs, Loads faster then my son's hp with windows 7 on it, My computer was made in 2005 and still going good. I feel that Lubuntu is a good replacement for windows xp.

----------


## amjjawad

Happy New Year Wallpaper: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...Happy_New_Year

Thanks to Rafael Laguna who has done all the amazing Artwork for this Project  :Smile: 

YES, feel free to use that wallpaper, it is public  :Wink:

----------


## amjjawad

> As of today, 15 Machines have been converted to Linux as of today:
> 
> Machine 1 = lubuntu﻿ 13.10
> Machine 2 = Xubuntu﻿ 12.04.3
> Machine 3 = Xubuntu 13.10
> Machine 4 = Xubuntu 13.10
> Machine 5 = Lubuntu 13.10
> Machine 6 = Xubuntu 12.4.3
> Machine 7 = Xubuntu 12.04.3
> ...


And this is a message on Facebook has just arrived:

I sent to her asking:



> Hi Mrs. *****, How is your laptop? everything is fine?


Her reply as received:




> Hi Ali. It's working really, really well. I am learning the system but it's very easy. Thank you so much!!


And that was the owner of machine 15 which is breathing Xubuntu 12.04.3  :Very Happy: 

She just made my day!

----------


## LT1Caprice57L

> A big part of that is  that tabbed browsers use alot of memory. When XP came out there were no tabbed browsers, so *people browsed the web more sensibly*.


No we didn't.  We just had a zillion browser windows open at once, instead of tabs. (And crashed the browser ten times as often, due to the lack of memory.)

----------


## Tar_Ni

I don't think Ubuntu is the right choice for an XP machine. I tried it myself on a 1GB 1.8 Ghz Intel pentium 4 proc with 80HDD and it was as much heavy on my system than Windows 7. Yes it ''works'' but just can't handle that very well.

Users will be much better off with Lubuntu (if they can make it work, I didn't, as I had a sound problem that I couldn't resolve)

Now I am on Linux Mint Xfce and like it pretty much. But yeah, Lubuntu or Xubuntu are better options than Ubuntu for older hardwares.

----------


## sudodus

I often install _pulseaudio_ and _pavucontrol_ for better control of the audio system in Lubuntu. They come with Xubuntu out of the box.

And I agree that Lubuntu or Xubuntu are better options than Ubuntu for older hardware. See this thread Old hardware brought back to life

----------


## LT1Caprice57L

> Now I am on Linux Mint Xfce and like it pretty much. But yeah, Lubuntu or Xubuntu are better options than Ubuntu for older hardwares.


Mint XFCE is an absolutely fantastic distro.  It made my netbook usable.  Now that I have resurrected this MacBook, the netbook won't get much use, especially since its screen has been cracked and it'd be more worthy to just replace it.  However, it's the only machine I can use in the truck that has Windows at the moment, and I have some trucking-specific applications on it that won't work under Wine, so I have to keep it around for that purpose.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

This article made me feel super bad and I was thinking last night a lot of what I can do about it?

I posted to the source of that article and tried to educate people over there and asked the writer to:




> ZDNet﻿, give me one good reason why should I upgrade to Windows 7 or Windows 8 and I give you 10 reasons why everyone on Windows XP must use Linux


These words motivated me to write this: Goodbye Windows XP, Hello Linux 

I put together the 'main' reasons to switch to Linux and get rid of Windows XP once and for all. These reasons, as you know, apply to any versions of Windows. I have met so many people using Windows 8 and they are sick and tired of it. They didn't know about Linux so here comes my part to enlighten them.

Long story short, if we really call ourselves FOSS Users and believe in Ubuntu's Philosophy, I think we should do something serious in these 3 coming months to reach to as many users as possible.

I am planning to create youtube videos. Contact local and non-local TV channels. Newspapers, Magazines, etc. BUT me alone? is not enough. We do need to do that as a team.

As the first step, let's make sure to spread the word and share this:
http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2014/01...llo-linux.html

Google+, Twitter, Facebook, etc.

If you know anyone in Real Life who still use Windows XP, send him this.
If you have colleagues at school, college, work, etc .. send them this.
If you know anyone who works for a magazine or anywhere that quickly spread the word, share this with them.

Our mission is simple:

_"Dear Windows XP users, your system will die in 3 months and no longer be useful. Why not try Linux? there are 10 reasons why you may want to give it a go - http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2014/01/goodbye-windows-xp-hello-linux.html"
_
That is all.

I will start with my neighbourhood but that is not enough. I may also contact some government offices, etc. This should no longer be online on sites, etc ... this must go to real life with a huge and vast marketing campaign. 

I am dead serious to make a huge impact and migrate as many users as possible. Are you?

----------


## JDorfler

Why are we only going about trying to convert XP users?  I switched a little before Vista came out because of the simple fact XP with all the patches was a bit buggy and slow.  When Vista came out it sucked so hard I never booted into Windows again until 7.  7 did what Vista was supposed to be.  Now MSFT put out the flop called 8/8.1.  While great for gaming, totally bites for anything else for a real PC user.  These are the folks we should be going after.  The folks that complain about 8/8.1 and keep on using it.  Then again, your average user just uses the OS that is already installed so they can play games on Facebook.

----------


## sudodus

We are _not only_  trying to convert XP users. But we are coming close to end of life of XP in April, and for this reason we focus on replacing it during a few months.

----------


## leclerc65

> This article made me feel super bad and I was thinking last night a lot of what I can do about it?


I bought netbooks with Windows on them but it doesn't mean I use the OS.
I hope that governments should ban the practice of forcing PC shipped with Windows installed. Unless the maker happens to be the owner of both - or the OS is free.

----------


## amjjawad

> We are _not only_  trying to convert XP users. But we are coming close to end of life of XP in April, and for this reason we focus on replacing it during a few months.


+1

I am glad there is someone can read my mind  :Very Happy: 
Thank you, my friend. I couldn't agree more.

And, just for those who are wondering whether StartUbuntu Project will die in April 2014 after Microsoft Windows XP dies, please be informed that StartUbuntu is just getting warm up. This project definitely has more stuff to bring to the world and that would be approaching those with Windows Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8  :Smile:  so, we are just in the first phase  :Wink:

----------


## C.S.Cameron

I'm not sure that what has been said in this thread about XP equating to rundown obsolete hardware is absolutely true.
I require  Windows to run AutoCAD, SolidWorks, Caesar II and other engineering software.
I use ACAD 2002 because it boots in under a second compared to ACAD 2014 which takes over a minute.
XP runs ACAD 2002 far better than Win 7 does and besides, I just don't like 7.
Both my office and laptop have i7's with Quadro graphics.

I am not the only one, I read just the other day that XP is still running 29% of all computers, ( http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...e-is-shrinking ).
Many of these users are large corporations.

For the demise of XP I have been experimenting with running XP inside Vbox on Ubuntu, sort of a locked sandbox.
All my internet, email and downloads would be through Ubuntu.
Only engineering software would be run with XP.

As for giving old hardware to poor foreign kids, I think it is a great idea.
I have brought a few ancient motherboards, and other essential hardware, over to Sri Lanka.
The kids started their systems hanging the boards from the wall and upgrading to enclosed cases when they could afford 
This has not only made a difference to the kids but to there parents as well.
One poor tuk tuk driver started a web page and is now booking tours for visitors from all over the world.

I have run into one problem introducing Ubuntu here, Windows of any flavor is the same price as Ubuntu, and kids quickly get addicted to the games they can play on Windows.
The Windows systems quickly get infected with malware, but it is easy enough to reformat, when the system gets too bogged down.
I'm not sure what effect the freezing of XP will have here, many of the Win 7 drivers will not work on the hardware.

----------


## amjjawad

Today, I converted my first one in 2014 and the total of converted machines became 17 as of today - see this.

3 months to go starting from today. Windows XP will die completely in 3 months from today.

I am not sure how many is following StartUbuntu Project and spreading the word. I am not sure how many have installed Linux for people and explained that to them. I am not sure how many machines others have converted themselves. All that does not matter. What does 'really' matter now is we must start to focus our efforts and try to be more active and not sit and wait 8th of April, 2014 because it would be too late and most of the Windows XP users will 'pay' for Microsoft or 'buy' new not needed hardware, simply because, they have never heard of Linux yet.

Almost all the 17 machines I have converted, 90% of the people have never ever heard of Linux before. I would imagine 70% 'minimum' of the people/users who are 'still' using Windows XP have never heard of Linux as well.

What are we waiting for?

There is 'no' time for why this or why that ... no time to discuss. It is time to 'do' and being proactive.

The mission is super simple:



> *Windows XP will be expired in 8th of April, 2014*


This message needs to be delivered to as many users as possible. That of course, if we call ourselves a believer in Ubuntu's Philosophy  :Smile:  that if we are contributors to Ubuntu or any to its variants.

I was thinking about a sub-project for StartUbuntu, that is to do something for poor kids who can't even have the slowest machine on earth. Africa, AFAIK is full of them. It would be great if we organize with UN or any Organization and send them our 'old' machines. I am sure all of us have more than one machine so why not? but that can wait for now. Let's do this after 8th of April, 2014  :Smile: 

Thank you!

----------


## flyfisherbryan

I am a recent convert from Windows XP who, until this very moment, knew nothing of this campaign.  I have a Windows 7 computer on my network (my wife's) and it will take a lot to win her over, but my goal is to eventually have an entirely Ubuntu home.  I am the XP guru for my friends and am conflicted with being their "enabler" as they get support from me, not MS.  Updates happen automatically in the background so many will not notice or care when they stop. ( I myself ran Win 98 on a couple of machines for years after support stopped, and up until the end ran XP in "Classic Mode" to make it more like 98.)  I have a friend whose XP machine has not updated successfully in 10 months!  He (so far) will not let me install Linux because he "hates change".  Nevertheless, even before I learned of this effort, all my friends knew of my debate about what to do with XP and my Linux decision.  I will keep on my friends to change and, I am sure, that as they one by one have irrepairable problems, they will allow me to "Ubuntu-ize" them.    So this effort does not end in April, it really just begins then!

----------


## amjjawad

Screenshot - 01132014 - 06:14:41 PM.png

This is a feedback from one of my neighbours who used to used nothing but Windows XP and now, a happy Xubuntu user without even one single Q for 3 weeks so far  :Smile: 

I shall say no more. The screenshot is louder than 1000 words  :Wink:

----------


## makitso

I have a number of older folks that have varying degrees of computer skills and physical abilities.  Most are, no pun intended, on WINXP.  But, the common theme I see in migrating them to a new environment has been simplicity, consistency, – and supportability.   

I have always looked at the *buntus tried to pick one that would be a good base upon which to work with in building a target system.  I have found that a application dock is an easy thing for XP users to migrate to.  So, have used docky in the past for most systems.  However, it's buggy now so I have move on to plank.

Back about a year ago I spent time with Lubuntu.  But, it drove me nuts trying to customize it.  Last week I loaded up Lubuntu 14.04 and was surprised to see how far it's come – light and modern.  Gosh, I can finally run the ubuntu startup sound  :Smile:   However, it still does not have a fully-functional trash can.  Yes, I can set up a desktop icon.  But, the icon does not change when there is something in it.   This may sound trivial but it's the small things that make a difference for my target group.  

I have also spent a great deal of time with xubuntu on versions from 12.04 up to 14.04.  For older configurations, this would be a good choice.   And, it has all the basics necessary to support my customers.  Every time I use xubuntu I think “what a great distro this could be...” But, personally, I am all about aesthetics, and IMHO, the darkness of the overall package is a putoff – like it's stuck in the 90's.  I am also disappointed that look and feel things do not get high priority for example the sound applet issue that dragged on forever.

 For folks that have the equipment there is Ubuntu Gnome – my personal favorite. Two shell extensions (Taskbar and Dash to dock)  give me the control I need to make a very comfortable user-friendly system that is, IMO, the ideal target migration system.

 So, why not Ubuntu itself?  Older people get confused with the HUD – end of story.  Personally, I hate it myself.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> However, it still does not have a fully-functional trash can.  Yes, I can set up a desktop icon.  But, the icon does not change when there is something in it.   This may sound trivial but it's the small things that make a difference for my target group.



Look, I never, ever understand the point of the "trash can". If I delete something I want it gone, not being saved in the trash can and taking up space. I have seen Windows people literally running out of space because they think they have deleted stuffs and and they are actually accumulating quietly in the "trash can" (recycle bin). I think the trash can is a stupidest idea that has infected desktop design (a Windows crappy idea?) 

When I set up lubuntu for others I always configure Pcmanfm to bypass the trash can altogether. "Delete" means delete, gone. There is a warnig popup before you delete anything so there is no issue of deleting things accidentally. (Likewise in Nautilus I always add a menu item of "really delete") 

And why would anyone want the trash can on the desktop??! Do people but their garbage in their bedrooms??

----------


## makitso

> And why would anyone want the trash can on the desktop??! Do people but their garbage in their bedrooms??


Personally, I agree with you.  But, this is not about what I think or what you think, it's about this specific customer base, folks that relate to a trash can.  All the *buntu's have one except Lubuntu.

----------


## iulian X

> While indeed the campaign called StartUbuntu but if you take a look at the Wiki Page, you will find that we are actually offering more than one option  if Ubuntu can't be installed, there are other alternatives 
> Lubuntu
> Xubuntu
> Both work on old machines.Thanks!


There are 2 other distro based on Ubuntu that can be used to on old computers.
Bodhi Linux and Madbox Linux

Here in Romania we also try to tell people about the expiration on Windows Xp.
In schols and public administration there are a lot of old computers runing Xp, when xp will expire the old computeres must be changed but with this financial crisis and all there are not much money.

----------


## WBHyAz8

*mastablasta*, Something must be wrong with your laptop then, because when i used XP (I still do, alongside Ubuntu), I used it on a laptop made in 2000 or earlier and it NEVER crashed, and it booted up in 10 seconds, and it was only 500mhz fast with 256 mb of ram.









Signature: In the computing world, who needs Jobs and Apples?

----------


## C.S.Cameron

Has Microsoft changed it's mind?  

microsoft-reanimates-windows-xps-corpse:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ows-xps-corpse

----------


## CharlesA

> Has Microsoft changed it's mind?  
> 
> microsoft-reanimates-windows-xps-corpse:
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ows-xps-corpse


XP is still going EoL. MS will still be providing updates for MSE on XP until 2015.

----------


## mastablasta

isn't MSE a joke?
i am thinking dualboot - Kubuntu and windows XP for old games. of just continue with winXP with vbox&linux for web.

----------


## amjjawad

New Page has been created:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...ertCompetition

I have reached 18 so far and today, I am visiting a new neighbour and hopefully that will be No.19  :Smile:

----------


## Elfy

Competition? 

Nice to see you've done 18 machines - but the real result is in having the same number using it in a year's time  :Wink:

----------


## deadflowr

> XP is still going EoL. MS will still be providing updates for MSE on XP until 2015.


So the only company dropping support for XP this year so far is Microsoft, and even they'll still be supporting it.
lol :Capital Razz:

----------


## iulian X

> Has Microsoft changed it's mind?  
> 
> microsoft-reanimates-windows-xps-corpse:
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...ows-xps-corpse


There are some things that you did not consider.
From april 2014 it will be harder to fiind compatible aplications for XP .
I use Ubuntu and Debian but my frinds ask me often to install on their computers  .exe aplications .
I did not use Windows for a lot of years and i lost track and i find out that i could not install some aplications like Antivirus, Yahoo, codesc, browsers.

Finaly i realised that they were using XP SP2 that was expired.
If aplications made for XP SP3 wont work for XP SP2, do you think that aplications made for Win 7 will work on XP SP3 ?  :Wink:   :Very Happy:  :Very Happy:

----------


## SurfaceUnits

I have some users on XP with HP computers and HP happens to have its own Linux distro called HP FreeLnx. It is based on Debian Squeeze with Gnome 2 and not much anything added to the base distro but HP wallpapers and logos. Cairo dock and Skype look to be the only apps added to the base. I tried to update it to Wheezy but too many broken core packages to fix. So I harvested all the HP stuff and I'm now building an Ubuntu Gnome 14.04 desktop. They used the Plymouth Dandelion boot splash so I had to figure out how to get that onto Ubuntu but everything else is easypeasy. They had some HP desktop themes but they weren't working and were debianugly anyway.

here's the Dandelion boot splash someone recorded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNm71ZXMd4Q

----------


## C.S.Cameron

There is a new rumor that Microsoft is going to rename XP to Windows 9.


http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...p-as-windows-9

----------


## RedComputer

I Will write an page how to change from Windows XP to Lubuntu. Also 3 years latter Windows Vista and 6 years Windows 7 would be dead.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

I heard it will be Windows 7.5

----------


## SurfaceUnits

> I Will write an page how to change from Windows XP to Lubuntu. Also 3 years latter Windows Vista and 6 years Windows 7 would be dead.


Will you include how to harvest Internet Exploder data?

----------


## amjjawad

> I Will write an page how to change from Windows XP to Lubuntu.


Go for it  :Smile: 




> Also 3 years latter Windows Vista and 6 years Windows 7 would be dead.


Who said StartUbuntu will wait all that long?  :Wink: 
StartUbuntu did not yet start the real fun. Once we're done from Windows XP, we shall start with Windows Vista, 7 and 8 and just for the record, there is an HP Laptop sitting on my left side waiting for breathing new life instead of Windows 8.1  :Very Happy: 

For me, I am not focusing on Windows XP only, I am ready to wipe any Windows Version and install Linux. But yes, my highest priority now is Windows XP.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Hp FreeLnx to Ubuntu Project status

HP logo'ed wallpaper for grub boot menu
FreeLnx Plymouth boot and shutdown splash theme
HP logo'ed gdm login screen wallpaper
HP logo'ed Lock Screen wallpaper
grub configuration
FreeLnx application set installed

----------


## kansasnoob

Hi Ali, we seem to meet everywhere  :Very Happy: 

I just subscribed to this thread due to a response here:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...e/+bug/1205643

Please look at Andrea's posts.

I think there is some confusion regarding support cycles and such  :Sad:

----------


## Oshima_Kenji

Well... Me too.
I was going to migrate to Lubuntu.

I have an old pc, which is 11 years old now.
It's still running on windows xp sp 1
Really bad.. It's absolutely slow, being cursed by viruses, and much more.

And this year, we gotta say goodbye to our xp, or we won't get Microsoft's support anymore  :LOL:

----------


## mastablasta

> It's still running on windows xp sp 1





> And this year, we gotta say goodbye to our xp, or we won't get Microsoft's support anymore


It seems you were not using their support anyway since you are still on SP1. and no wonder PC is full of malware since you never patched the big holes that can be patched.

----------


## robin7

I really hope the Xubuntu developers will keep these new arrivals in mind when they're putting 14.04 together.  While Xubuntu is *NOT* "aimed at users of older hardware" anymore, a lot of folks with older computers are about to join our ranks in search of a "tradional desktop" that will run on their modest machines.  And/or, I really hope the Lubuntu developers will make their next release more "workable and usable" and less buggy.

I just replaced Lubuntu - which *IS* "for older computers" - with Xubuntu on my former WindowsXP machine because Abiword continuously crashed, video would not play (even after installing and reinstalling restricted-extras and such), and while it recognized my printer, it refused to load and print anything.  Xubuntu did _all_ that stuff automatically.

I would hate to see the 'buntu family miss out on a great influx of new users because one is too heavy for the older hardware and the other is too buggy and halting to be useful.

----------


## ibjsb4

IS  ..  is NOT

It is NOT that black and white  :Smile:   When installing on older machines my first choice is Xubuntu.  My rule of thumb is dual core and a gig of ram for Xubuntu, can be done with less, but this is my choice.  Single core and less than a gig of ram = Lubuntu.

My machines are all dual core or dual processors, oldest machine being a 2005.  All run Ubuntu (Gnome) and does not fit your 'is, is not' equation.

And ..

To buggy .. less buggy

There are thousands of happy Lu and X users out there or they would of never made the cut.  So I would say that is personal opinion, not fact.

----------


## robin7

> There are thousands of happy Lu and X users out there or they would of never made the cut.  So I would say that is personal opinion, not fact.


Granted, *your milegage may vary*, as they say.  But what happened on my machine is not a matter of mere opinion, but fact.  I didn't make that up for goodnessakes, Abiword really did crash several times, videos really failed to play, and the printer really did fail.  *That's not "my opinion," it's my experience.*

But my computer is a 12-year-old Dell with a Celeron 2.5 GHz processor and a paltry little 512 MB of RAM.  One that should have run Lubuntu effortlessly.  Lubu was plenty fast (I mean reeeeally fast, wonderful speed and responsiveness!), it just wouldn't do what I needed it to.  Xubuntu 12.04 runs kinda okay on it, but I'll be researching ways to make Xubu leaner and meaner without sacrificing it's wonderful functionality.

I expect that pretty soon Xubuntu will outrun my hardware and I'll revisit Lubuntu before I run off to try Puppy or something, lol.  I think LXDE has a bright future going into Qt instead of GTK, and I suspect that some of my own Lubuntu issues were caused by conflicts between some apps that were made to run on GTK2 and others that run on GTK3.  Things should settle down soon and I'm looking forward to playing with Lubuntu some more.  Very fast, very simple, very nice looking.  I even wrote a nice "review" of Lubuntu here.

----------


## leclerc65

> Abiword really did crash several times, videos really failed to play, and the printer really did fail. That's not "my opinion," it's my experience.


For me the File Managers (Thunar, PCManFM ...) are deal breakers. 
I just distro-hopped to OpenSuse KDE, it seemed rock solid. I really like Dolphin but unfortunately the Codecs is deal breaker.
Still hang on to Mint Maya Mate...sigh, and Precise Puppy for lightweight hardwares.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

HP FreeLnx to Ubuntu Project 

Customization of the Cairo-Dock with launchers and apps
HP Logo for Activities 



I have two customers scheduled for upgrades plus one new computer  - will be using 13.10 Gnome 3.8.4

----------


## vasa1

> ... "review" of Lubuntu here.


Do you find shortened urls more informative? Why did you use one? Just curious.

----------


## robin7

> Do you find shortened urls more informative? Why did you use one? Just curious.


Not really... When I write a post to my wordpress blog I get an e-mail with that shortened link to the post.  I just copied-and-pasted it from the e-mail.  No special reason to use a shortened url, it's just the one Wordpress sent me.

----------


## vasa1

> Not really... When I write a post to my wordpress blog I get an e-mail with that shortened link to the post.  I just copied-and-pasted it from the e-mail.  No special reason to use a shortened url, it's just the one Wordpress sent me.


Thanks for explaining  :Smile: 

The reason I asked is because I seem to remember this forum having a policy about preferring full urls for transparency. Maybe I'm mixing up things in my mind  :Wink:

----------


## mastablasta

> HP FreeLnx to Ubuntu Project 
> 
> Customization of the Cairo-Dock with launchers and apps
> HP Logo for Activities 
> 
> 
> I have two customers scheduled for upgrades plus one new computer - will be using 13.10 Gnome 3.8.4



is it allowed to use HP logo like that?

----------


## Buntu Bunny

> While Xubuntu is *NOT* "aimed at users of older hardware" anymore, a lot of folks with older computers are about to join our ranks in search of a "traditional desktop" that will run on their modest machines.


+1. Xubuntu is the flavour I've been promoting.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

> is it allowed to use HP logo like that?


only if HP created it, which they did. You apparently don't know about HP's linux distro.

----------


## ibjsb4

> only if HP created it, which they did. You apparently don't know about HP's linux distro.


I would like to know about this, could you provide a link?

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Have another customer to move to Xubuntu next month; an old Dell peecee

----------


## dadoublem

HP had a linux distro? That's surprising.

----------


## mastablasta

> only if HP created it, which they did. You apparently don't know about HP's linux distro.


i ment is it segal to glue them to Ubuntu.

they have HP Linux for workstations nbut as i read they are SuSE and RedHat.

as i remember there was nobranding in the HP that had SUSE preinstalled.

----------


## WinXpRefugee

This is what I did 
OLD OLD Xp machine
DELL Dimention 2350 Desktop

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2202041

----------


## SurfaceUnits

> i ment is it segal to glue them to Ubuntu.
> 
> they have HP Linux for workstations nbut as i read they are SuSE and RedHat.
> 
> as i remember there was nobranding in the HP that had SUSE preinstalled.


*Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 downloads for HP*

----------


## kansasnoob

> *Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 downloads for HP*


But does it carry that HP logo?

A link would be nice  :Wink:

----------


## CitadelUniversal

Is this what your referring to? https://wiki.debian.org/HP/ProLiant?...ProLiant%29%29 -- http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/s...ian/index.html

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

I've been very bad and so weak this month so couldn't achieve many except 4.5 more  :Sad: 

*Total now is 20.5* that I have converted *myself*. There is another neighbour who might install Lubuntu himself on his Mini HP. He said the only thing that is stopping him to switch is Photoshop:




> I might soon in a very earnest attempt to embrace the open source community's principles again give it a try once more. The issues stopping me are programs compatibility like photoshop and other same programs. Has this been addressed? Thanks.


I of course suggested GIMP and Inkscape. He added:




> yeah i already use gimp but it is no where as efficient as adobe.


Tried to convince him to use GIMP. He wrote:



> you know i should invest more in Gimp then. however are you aware of any program that acts like lightroom? google color fx is just not enouhg!



Because I am not a Graphics Designer, so couldn't really answer that Q.

Then:



> you know, what made curious about Linux was the philosophy behind it. in a world governed by $$$ someone somewhere thought about us who have to use windows (no apple for me).
> i have tried it and i liked it but what put me off was the codes i had to enter everytime to customize the program.
> then Google came and endorsed this philosophy by throw in in android system..
> well i will try and install it on my mini hp and see.
> see you don't need to convert me as i am already linux'd


And to wrap up the chat:



> yes great. thanks Ali. i will give it a try. it is nice talking to you neighbor! i will let you once i have installed Lubuntu


There are many Facebook Group on the City that I live and there are 'new' groups I have joined yesterday on the area around my community. 10mins by car to reach there. I have joined and started to advertise about Linux, etc. Let's see how it goes. I hope in 1-2 months that the whole city will be aware of this project and that is exactly the point.

Again, if everyone who is interested about StartUbuntu to do the same on his/her area, we would achieve a huge success.

My own facebook group on my neighbourhood has 58 and growing. I am asking from those who started to use Linux to write a feedback on the other groups with +1000 - +5000 members and they're doing so already. But that is NOT enough.

I am still looking for someone who works in any media (TV, newspaper, etc). That would be great with the minimum effort. I mean to reach out to so many in less time with less efforts.
Let me gather my strength and recharge ASAP. I still feel weak so don't want to overdo it.

Thanks!

----------


## KBD47

I love lubuntu but have concerns about its shorter support cycle, so been more interested in lxle lately. Also like Linux Lite, Mint Xfce 13, and Xubuntu 12.04. Will be interested in the new LTS Buntus this Spring, but wondering if they will leave the old XP machines even further behind regarding software support? I welcome any thoughts on that and regarding if it affects amjjawad's excellent efforts. In other words--will it be a good idea to point XP user to the newer LTS that's coming up, or older, but still supported LTS? Thanks.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

I suspect there are die hard XP fans who just wouldn't switch or update and they don't care if MS stops supporting it. Just look at some people on this forum ( almost Feb 2014) with questions about Ubuntu 10.04, 9.04 and even Hardy (I don't even know which number it was). Some people just don't like change.  :Smile:

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> I love lubuntu but have concerns about its shorter support cycle, so been more interested in lxle lately. Also like Linux Lite,


lubuntu shares almost all of Ubuntu's repositories except for a few things.  I think if you have lubuntu 12.04 and add this ppa it would become a LTS https://launchpad.net/~lxle/+archive/updates 
Out of the box I find lubuntu a lot cleaner. Lxle comes with too many junks IMO and have too many ppas enabled. I have no problem with ppas, I use quite a few but I add them myself. I think it is problematic to install a lot of ppas without the user's knowledge because conflicts may arise later and the user wouldn't know what happened. Just my two cents.

----------


## sudodus

> I think if you have lubuntu 12.04 and add this ppa it would be the same as lxle in terms of support.https://launchpad.net/~lxle/+archive/updates
> Out of the box I find lubuntu a lot cleaner. Lxle comes with too many junks IMO and have too many ppas enabled. I have no problem with ppas, I use quite a few but I add them myself. I think it is problematic to install a lot of ppas without the user's knowledge because conflicts may arise later and the users wouldn't know what happened. Just my two cents.


Interesting post  :Smile:

----------


## claracc

```
lubuntu shares almost all of Ubuntu's repositories except for a few things. I think if you have lubuntu 12.04 and add this ppa it would become a LTS https://launchpad.net/~lxle/+archive/updates
Out of the box I find lubuntu a lot cleaner. Lxle comes with too many junks IMO and have too many ppas enabled. I have no problem with ppas, I use quite a few but I add them myself. I think it is problematic to install a lot of ppas without the user's knowledge because conflicts may arise later and the user wouldn't know what happened. Just my two cents.
```

Please, could someone add more information about it?. I find it very interesting since I have an old pentium III laptop with lubuntu 12.04 installed, I have tried lubuntu 12.10 installation and it doesn't work in such an old dinosaur.

If installing the forementioned ppa changes my unsupported now lubuntu 12.04 in a LTS till 2017 I will do.

Thanks

----------


## monkeybrain20122

I think you can compare the sources.list of lxle and lubuntu 12.04 and check what provides the long term support. I am not sure but I think the lxle ppa is the only important difference.

----------


## KBD47

Thanks monkeybrain.
I'm running lxle right now on a netbook and love it. Only downside is DVD size iso, some old computers only have cd drive, and lubuntu is cd size, as is xubuntu and Linux lite.

----------


## amjjawad

> I love lubuntu but have concerns about its shorter support cycle, so been more interested in lxle lately. Also like Linux Lite, Mint Xfce 13, and Xubuntu 12.04. Will be interested in the new LTS Buntus this Spring, but wondering if they will leave the old XP machines even further behind regarding software support? I welcome any thoughts on that and regarding if it affects amjjawad's excellent efforts. In other words--will it be a good idea to point XP user to the newer LTS that's coming up, or older, but still supported LTS? Thanks.


Hi,

Because the EOL of Microsoft Windows XP is going to be on 8th or April, 2014 and that is before releasing the final version of 14.04 according to the release schedule, we have no choice but to go for 13.10 and/or 12.04 LTS (Xubuntu and other alternatives with LTS release - except Lubuntu of course). 

If you take a look at my list, you will see that I am using: Ubuntu GNOME 13.10, Xubuntu 12.04.3 LTS and Lubuntu 13.10  :Smile: 

The theory of Windows XP Users have 'old machines' is not really true when it comes to reality, it is just a theory, not a reality.
Prove that? If you insist, you can take a look at the list here. Forget the list. Let me tell you this. I have seen with my very eyes many machines which are strong enough to run any version of Windows rather than XP but the user was using nothing but Windows XP.

What does it mean?
It means, Windows XP is installed on wide range of Hardware. From old machines (which only Lubuntu and maybe Xubuntu are the only valid options from Ubuntu Family) to powerful machines enough to run Windows 7 (which means Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu and Kubuntu can work nicely) and maybe even Windows 8.

Yes, the logic says: Windows XP? = High chance of having 'Old' machine.

Reality? Windows XP = installed on wide range of hardware (256MB RAM - 4GB RAM and above).

This is what I have seen by my very eyes with so many machines of my project to convert the neighbourhood to Linux.

As I mentioned before, I keep a list of the names + contacts of the people who have 13.10 installed. Once 14.04 is released, I will inform them and ask them to upgrade. By that time, all of them will be familiar with Linux already  :Smile: 
I have started this late in October 2013 till date. NO serious issue as of this very moment. Very and I mean very simple questions that requires me sending a reply on a facebook message, end of story  :Smile: 

This tells me that Linux is much more easier than what we all thought. I must say, I am surprised. It is either I underestimated the users OR Linux is really really easy. I didn't imagine that until I read/hear the feedback from my neighbours who are 5-10mins walking on feet away from where I'm sitting right now writing this.

LTS vs NON-LTS?
We should 'not' worry about that. I have no idea we are wasting our time to discuss that  :Very Happy: 
Really, nowadays, even the Alpha1 of any Ubuntu Development Release is Rock Solid.

Don't worry though, I am not going to install a beta version for anyone  :Capital Razz:   :Wink:

----------


## KBD47

Hi Amjjawad! Recently I was given a ten year old XP machine retired from service in an Insurance Office. I bumped up the ram to 1500 mb, and the old Athalon XP 2800 2.08 ghz cpu works fine, but the video card was the crappy Geforce4 mx440. The last time that card was supported in Ubuntu well was 10.04. Maybe my case is unique, maybe everyone else will be retiring much younger machines, but I suspect come springtime there will be many old machines retired when all the warnings reach a fever pitch about support from MS ending for XP. My concern is that the newer kernels and releases that leave old drivers behind may be problematic for some. There is 3 years left of support on certain LTS releases that may work better for people with really old machines, at least that is what I'm thinking, I may be wrong  :Smile:

----------


## sudodus

> Hi Amjjawad! Recently I was given a ten year old XP machine retired from service in an Insurance Office. I bumped up the ram to 1500 mb, and the old Athalon XP 2800 2.08 ghz cpu works fine, but the video card was the crappy Geforce4 mx440. The last time that card was supported in Ubuntu well was 10.04. Maybe my case is unique, maybe everyone else will be retiring much younger machines, but I suspect come springtime there will be many old machines retired when all the warnings reach a fever pitch about support from MS ending for XP. My concern is that the newer kernels and releases that leave old drivers behind may be problematic for some. There is 3 years left of support on certain LTS releases that may work better for people with really old machines, at least that is what I'm thinking, I may be wrong


+1

I think you are right. Ubuntu 12.04 LTS based flavours, re-spins and distros are a good choice for many (but not all) ten year old computers. But sometimes we must also look outside the Ubuntu based systems. Knoppix is often good at co-ooperating with old hardware. Various Puppy linux versions or Tiny Core are also good alternatives. We must realize that there is a limit when the computer is not really useful for web browsing, but it can still be a good experience to learn linux with it. See also this link Old hardware brought back to life

----------


## KBD47

Thanks Sudodus! Frequently I will go to Debian Stable when all else fails, or when I need a very lightweight OS. Of course the Ubuntu spins are more convenient.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

You are looking at US$50 for the cheapest modern PCI video card. That being a GeForce GT 610 512MB 64-bit DDR3 PCI and it needs a 300Watt PS

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

Just to keep you posted:

1- http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2014/01...onvert-my.html

So far, 8 machines in January and there are a lot of others people who are very interested. I found out that advertising with text is not working as I want to. So, I did something different. After each time I convert a machine, I take a picture, upload it to the facebook group where +5000 residence are there, and that is all what it takes for others to feel jealous or curious and would like to convert their machines to Linux.

Other people from other areas are approaching me too. I am so much ready to convert the whole city then the whole country. It just takes some time  :Wink: 

2- StartUbuntu Project needs more contributors

3- StartUbuntu Project needs Social Media Moderators

4- Flyer Idea

5- Sticker Idea

You can always stay up-to-date with StartUbuntu news by joining the mailing list:
https://launchpad.net/~startubuntu

Thank you!

P.S.
What about your record?
How many machines have you converted in real life???

----------


## sudodus

> So far, 8 machines in January and there are a lot of others people who are very interested. I found out that advertising with text is not working as I want to. So, I did something different. After each time I convert a machine, I take a picture, upload it to the facebook group where +5000 residence are there, and that is all what it takes for others to feel jealous or curious and would like to convert their machines to Linux.
> 
> Other people from other areas are approaching me too. I am so much ready to convert the whole city then the whole country. It just takes some time


Great idea, and great inspiration  :Very Happy: 

I convert a few, but not as many as you in real life. I hope, though, that my software contributions will help people via the internet ...

----------


## amjjawad

> Great idea, and great inspiration 
> 
> I convert a few, but not as many as you in real life. I hope, though, that my software contributions will help people via the internet ...


Thank you, my good friend  :Smile: 

This is truly a very unique experience. I didn't imagine I could learn a lot from it. I am leaning a lot of new things and everyday, I meet new people from different countries and this is just great. I am also leaning more about marketing/advertising techniques. When one approach doesn't work well, I try to find another one. So far, my new approach is triple better than the old one. In one day, 3 machines have been converted. Final record for January 2014 is 9 installations and 8.5 machines (one is dual-booting). 

I have a feeling that in February, I might do 20 installations but that will require more efforts and less time for Ubuntu GNOME, ToriOS and other stuff so I must take it easy and have some sort of balance.

Note: Until now, I am doing the installations myself. I am doing everything from A-Z and the user is doing nothing but using the machine. Yes, it is hard time and extra efforts but every beginning is hard. The system is new. Linux is like Greek here. People are so far away from searching for different system. They are super busy, that is why I sometimes go myself to their places to take their machines.

It is not just a computer project. I find this project is much more and far beyond just a computer thing.

I feel so tired. Once I finish machine number 25, I will log off and recharge for tomorrow's new round  :Very Happy:

----------


## amjjawad

Good news  :Smile: 

It makes me feel really good whenever I read such news.

I'm very confident that it is a matter of time. Everyday, my feelings became strong and stronger. The golden ear of Microsoft will come to an end. Just like the company they bought (Nokia). No matter what they will do, Epic will fail, sooner or later. It is about time when the world starts to realize that Linux is NOT just free and save money, it is open the mind and do much more  :Smile:

----------


## Old_Grey_Wolf

> Good news 
> ... 
> It is about time when the world starts to realize that Linux is NOT just free and save money, it is open the mind and do much more


The article was not about Linux; however, it was about open formats.

----------


## amjjawad

Amazing and great news  :Very Happy: 




> Thanks to Pierre for following up off-list and getting us the files we
> needed. Thanks also to Robert Streeter who offered up some help!
> 
> Pasi Lallinaho and I spent the past day passing drafts back and forth
> and now have a Xubuntu alternate version of the flyer all ready and
> uploaded to spreadubuntu.org
> 
> A4 size: http://spreadubuntu.org/en/material/...buntu-flyer-a4
> 
> ...


The above was an email form Lyz (Xubuntu Marketing Team Leader and one of Ubuntu Council Members). Special thanks to Xubuntu Team for spreading the word.

All the other communities need to participate as well. I sent an email to Ubuntu GNOME (my team) and hope the Artwork Team will do something like that. I also sent to Lubuntu Team and I hope Rafael has enough time to help as well  :Smile: 

Edit:
I added that to my website:
http://amjjawad.net/startubuntu-xubuntu-flyer/

P.S.
I know my website looks so bad but I have no time to work on it.

----------


## droidpatch

i need a little more convincing, my intrigue has increased by 2/7ths.

----------


## amjjawad

Two more things:

1- Xubuntu Flyer that I shared on Facebook, Twitter and Google+ was translated quickly to two languages a side from English:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...mmunity_Flyers

2- I have reached to new milestone - 30 Linux Installations on 30 machines, all by myself:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...ertCompetition

Near Future Plan:
1- Get other communities (official variants of Ubuntu) to do flyers as well  :Smile: 

2- I must make new record and reach to 40 and hopefully 50 converted machine for Feb 2014  :Smile: 

Thank you!

----------


## kansasnoob

> Two more things:
> 
> 1- Xubuntu Flyer that I shared on Facebook, Twitter and Google+ was translated quickly to two languages a side from English:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...mmunity_Flyers
> 
> 2- I have reached to new milestone - 30 Linux Installations on 30 machines, all by myself:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...ertCompetition
> 
> Near Future Plan:
> ...


I'm currently at 53 - but I started in 2008 with some old Win 98 and Win ME boxes  :Tongue: 

Many hardware upgrades involved but I've loved the journey.

----------


## amjjawad

> I'm currently at 53 - but I started in 2008 with some old Win 98 and Win ME boxes 
> 
> Many hardware upgrades involved but I've loved the journey.


I have started late in October and in 2013, I had only 16 but now, with the first two months of 2014, I have broken my own record in 2013 and installed on 17 so total is 33  :Very Happy:

----------


## amjjawad

How about we contact Mr. Gates and offer him a switch to Linux? 
I am sure he will be much less stressful  :Wink: 

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blog...indows-81.html

He will be so happy and glad. We all know what could happen. Most likely, he will migrate the entire Microsoft to Linux  :Very Happy:

----------


## stilnovo1

Hi to everybody!

Kansansnoob has suggested me this interesting thread.

I'm the typical user that has always used only Windows from the 3.11 version onwards (except for Commodore 64, Amiga and Atari ST, of course!). 

Sometimes, it happened to me to read something about Linux, but it seemed too complicated and I didn't find any interest. Effectively, at the beginning words as 'distros, repositories, terminals, grub, sudo' etc are not so attractives as turning on the computer and simply using it.

The last september, while watching a good 'Doctor Who' episode, a flash of inspiration: to throw away my old desktop pc coming from the past century (1999). I picked it up in 2007 from a customer who was throwing away in its turn. It had Win 98, a Nvdivia Riva TNT graphic card and a 1,5ghz cpu etc.
So, not so bad for web-browsing use. I upgraded it from Win 98 to XP Professional Edition, without formatting (!!). So, the last september it was quite unusable: very but very slow, the only browser that permitted me to open within 10 minutes a page was Opera, defragmenting and tweaking it was now useless. So it was the time for the trash can.
But before I wanted to play with it, and I remembered something I had read in the past about something called more or less kbuntu, kubuntu or similar, maybe for old computers. I was wrong, but in those days I didn't know.
So, after some time passed in reading literature, I installed a 2nd pci hdd and installed kubuntu 12.04. The first load was a disaster: bad graphic, error messages and crashes everywhere: so, I learned that drivers in Linux world are a problems! Mine was Nvidia legacy driver and Nouvevau. But I'm curious, so I continued to play with the old machine. I read a lot of articles at that time, and after a month I gave up with Kubuntu and I installed Lubuntu 13.10. Again problems, but I followed some posts in the very active Linux forums and finally, after having discovered the existence of xorg.conf file, I had at the beginning of november a working Lubuntu machine. After a long-suffering period, and tkinkings like 'why am I doing this?', my old pc has changed into something else: serviceable in one word.
In the meanwhile, I was continuing to read posts and articles about Ubuntu in particular, but I discovered a big world made of interesting distros.... but the infos were not always so clear.

Anyway, I spoke about this with my boss, that showed interest for this: instead of spending money after the next april, we could try to keep actual pcs and to change OS. But this point I think is not so clear also today to him.... I installed on three machines very similar to my old one (Nvidia Riva...sic!) Lubuntu 13.10, and we gave them to some my colleagues that are normal users in order to understand if the change was really possible.
To tell the truth, at the beginning we installed on one more powerful machine Ubuntu 12.04, but it didn't like to my colleague who was using it, so we decided (after another short panel test with Xubuntu) for Lubuntu 13.10. People is learning very fast and they say that it is 'not so similar to XP but instead it seems an "improved" Win 98'...

Ok, so in a short period four pcs were converted to Lubuntu 13.10 from XP. On those machines I installed VirtualBox to use some specific company XP programmes, and in this moment the test is going well.

Unluckily, we have also some Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo L7320 given to the salesmen for customer reports etc "Ok", I said: Lubuntu also here! No, something doesn't work (as Kansasnoob knows!!), so now people in my company thinks that this choice in not so good and that buying new computers with Windows 8 would be a better choice.... In the meanwhile, in order to acquire knowledge, I've persuaded two friends to install an Ubuntu flavour (one Kubuntu 12.04, the other Lubuntu 13.10).

So, now I have some installations done behind (not so much like you all, obviously!), and these are some thinkings coming from my little experience till now:

- no one installation has been easy and has been ok from the first trial: driver problems has been the main ones, and vesa drivers are not attractive for a whole user experience; the installations were successful between the 3rd and the 5th trial

- at the beginning, finding the right documentation to introduce a beginner used to use only Windows pcs is not so easy. A lot of forums but sometimes it seems like an exclusive club: not so much for someone that wants to start in an easy way

- I love the terminal, but few users love to solve problems with a cli tool...I wouldn't underestimate the importance of more user-friendly solutions

- this is a big historical opportunity for the Linux world to have many more users in one shot. I think also however that you can 'convert' a Windows user starting from its actual hardware: in the future, once he will be used to the new OS, he will buy a more specific and compatible hardware. This is a classical vicious circle: if Linux developers won't support the old hardware in order to tempt the users and the companies to keep their actual hardware, saving money today, they will not buy specific and Linux-tweaked hardware tomorrow.

- Once the installation is done with a good result, all the Ubuntu flavours are very pleasable to use - the difficult is to get this target!!

- I like computers, but I'm not a computer-geek: if I see that every time I have to do an installation is a problem, I will look for other solutions. Now I'm used to turn-on the pc and to use it without any particular problem, and I'm not obliged to use Power-shell. 

- I've learned that every time there are updatings, something can go wrong: with Xp is rarely happened

These want to be constructive criticisms: my old pc running Lubuntu 13.10 makes me very satisfied, and I'm still tweaking it with very good results. But I like also to use a pc without doing any activity on the OS. A user experience like an Android device would be nice (from my user's point of view)

Uh, I wrote too much, excuse me!!

----------


## kansasnoob

> Hi to everybody!
> 
> Kansansnoob has suggested me this interesting thread.
> 
> I'm the typical user that has always used only Windows from the 3.11 version onwards (except for Commodore 64, Amiga and Atari ST, of course!). 
> 
> Sometimes, it happened to me to read something about Linux, but it seemed too complicated and I didn't find any interest. Effectively, at the beginning words as 'distros, repositories, terminals, grub, sudo' etc are not so attractives as turning on the computer and simply using it.
> 
> The last september, while watching a good 'Doctor Who' episode, a flash of inspiration: to throw away my old desktop pc coming from the past century (1999). I picked it up in 2007 from a customer who was throwing away in its turn. It had Win 98, a Nvdivia Riva TNT graphic card and a 1,5ghz cpu etc.
> ...


Where and when did I do that?

I communicate with so many people that I want to be sure we're on the same page  :Very Happy: 

I'm thinking here:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...e/+bug/1205643

But I may be mistaken  :Confused:

----------


## amjjawad

Hi, 

I forgot to share this with you. Yesterday, one of the students of Toledo University share this picture with me  :Very Happy: 

2014-02-08 14.02.25.jpg

I wish and hope that everyone if possible to do his/her best to spread the word at places such us Universities as these places IMHO are the best to promote for such projects/causes.

Our aim is noble. We're trying our best to draw a smile on people face AND save their money. While I don't like to think about it this way but we can't deny money talks nowadays and when someone will understand he/she can really 'save' by not paying anything for a software nor a hardware, they will consider using Linux. But again, that shouldn't be the main focus. FOSS = Fee and Open Your Mind not Just Save Your Money.

Spreading the word of StartUbuntu in Real Life is an important key success.

As for Online Activities, I have asked from ToriOS Website Administrator to add StartUbuntu Banner to the website of my new project:
http://torios.org/

Also, I put that on my ugly website (have no time to work on it and it is still new by the way):
http://amjjawad.net/

I have asked in the past from everyone to do that on their blogs, website, facebook, twitter, google+, etc.

The student from University of Toledo who approached me months ago, I offered him and to his University my FULL support and help. They have a project called:
https://launchpad.net/~rocketsosi

If there is anyone who lives in Ohio, USA, it would be great if you could help and support those students. 

It is very important IMHO to support such initiative world wide. So, if anyone of us who could do the same, that would be great. Yes, it is extra efforts but I do love it and enjoy every bit of it. I will never be late to share my skills and experience with anyone. I wish I could do more. I feel I did nothing yet  :Smile: 

Thank you!

----------


## stilnovo1

@ kansasnoob: yes, you are right! that's the page!

----------


## kansasnoob

> @ kansasnoob: yes, you are right! that's the page!


OK, lets focus on the FUJITSU SIEMENS AMILO L7320:

CPU =         Intel Celeron M 1.70GHz
Graphics = VIA P4M800 Pro/P4M800 
RAM =        1GB DDR2

I know from personal experience that the Openchrome video driver for that graphics chip is broken in Saucy (13.10) and also the 12.04.4 HWE stack for Precise. So using those images is not a possibility. For the benefit of others here's a link explaining the LTS HWE process for Ubuntu Precise:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack

Only the 12.04 and 12.04.1 images have the original kernel and X-stack, so they are the only ones that will be supported without major upgrades until April 2017.

Based on my own experience with VIA P4M800 Pro/P4M800 graphics it will only perform acceptably, or at all, with Lubuntu which uses the Openbox window manager, Xubuntu which uses Xfwm, or the Metacity window manager which is supported by Edubuntu for their LTSP installs. Well, in Precise Metacity is actually supported for Unity-2D in Ubuntu itself but after 12.04 the Unity-2D project was discontinued and I found it to be a bit too heavy for that graphics chip anyway.

Regardless I really prefer using Ubuntu 12.04.1 images and then doing this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1966370

I could try to give many reasons for my preference but let's limit it to support cycle:

Lubuntu Precise was only supported for 18 months, so it's already EOL.

Xubuntu Precise is only supported for 3 years so it reaches EOL in April 2015.

As stated previously Ubuntu Precise itself is good until April 2017, and the components comprising the "classic (no effects)" session will also be supported by Edubuntu until April 2017.

Now, here you mentioned a lot of other problems regarding installation and grub:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...43/comments/39

I certainly have some ideas  :Wink: 

But I need to take a breather ............... and clean my bathroom before I get reported to the board of health  :LOL:

----------


## kansasnoob

> @ kansasnoob: yes, you are right! that's the page!


This bug report should also be of interest to you:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...e/+bug/1122991

----------


## stilnovo1

@ kansasnoob

After your posts in Launchpad, I've understood the problem regarding the support for HWE. Initially I didn't understand that every following version of Precise has got the HWE of Quantal (12.04.2), Raring (12.04.3) and Saucy (12.04.4). The link you've provided to me is very clear about this.

So, the last saturday the weather in Italy was very bad and I decided (to try) to format Kubuntu 12.04.4 (I got it from lsb_release -a) and to install a 12.04.1 iso. But the results weren't good, as probably you've already read in the lauchpad page of 'our' bug...

The frustrating aspect is that with the Livecd session speed, colours, resolution of the graphics are correct (even for 12.04.4), but during the installation something goes wrong. The most curious thing is that while installing Ubuntu 12.04.0 (the only one I was successful), the installation stops until you don't press any key, and it restarts (if you don't keep a finger on a key it's a continous 'stop and go')... but the installation goes wrong anyway, the graphic that was so nice with Livecd session doesn't work after (during the load the screen becomes dark). 
So, the only solution I've found until now to see something on the screen is to put vesa driver in the conf.org file.
With vesa the colours are correct but quite faded, and the maximum screen resolution is lower (from WXGA to XGA). In the livecd session, where I imagine that the loaded system is simpler than the installed one, screen resolution and colours are perfect. 
Another curiosity: the only installation (I've tried about 11 different installations...) with correct graphic is Kubuntu 12.04.1... it often crashes, it's generally slower but graphic is WXGA and colours are ok (until it works).

So, I'm now worried for the result I've to expect from 14.04. We have in our Company a total of 6 identical computers like this, although in 2007 laptops were more expensive than now it was considered quite chip (550 euros - about 752USD expended) in that times. Now with the same price level you have better pcs, in 2007 the slump didn't exist.... many people in Italy, even in big companies, don't seriously consider the problem of the end of the extended assistance in XP from Microsoft. Many times you hear answers as "oh, well, we'll install a better antivirus(!!)" or "we don't surf on dangerous websites...".
Luckily in the Company where I work they listen to me, so now we're seriously trying to study the situation mainly putting beside in a dual boot configuration Xp with ..... (fill in the dots!!). I love Lxde desktop, it's elegant, nice, fast, simple, modern and Lubuntu gives me the chance to have a complete ready working environment with good repositories. And it works with old computers, making them resuscitated. Infact the desktop Pcs with Lubuntu 13.10 are working very well, the users that are testing it consider it very pleasable. I've understood that this year the support for it will end, but I'm confident that 14.04 will work on them (I hope).

But for those "delightful" Amilo I really don't know what to do: I cannot give to a colleague a thing like that one I've installed. I'm using it, but not everybody can appreciate the fact that now they have something that works quite well with XP, while tomorrow I can only propose faded graphic and lower screen resolution for their laptops! 
The result, then, will be that we continue to buy Pcs with Windows inside, since the experience of today could be not very good with Linux world. It's a pity, in Italy we say 'it's a dog that bites its own tail'!

Well, I don't know how and where to post this problem, it's from now only 5 months I'm approaching this interesting world, so if you can help me....

thaks in advance!

----------


## sudodus

@_stilnovo1_

It should be possible to preserve the good graphics of the live session, when you are running an installed system. It is 'only' a question of finding the correct settings. Unfortunately that 'only' might be difficult  :Wink: 

You can try some re-spin or flavour of Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, for example _Bento Linux_ or _Bodhi Linux_ or some _Linux Mint_ flavour. Maybe one of them will work out of the box with your graphics card.

----------


## stilnovo1

Hi sudodus!

Thanks for your reply. The distros you reported to me are very interesting, but I am afraid of that the main problems are my chipset (VIA P4M800) in combination with openchrome driver from one side and the HWE from the other... so, maybe, I will find these problems on every distro. Is this correct or am I wrong?

----------


## sudodus

Maybe, maybe not. It only costs the time to try. Download the iso, flash it to a USB drive and run a live session. If successful try installation.

----------


## sudodus

There is a distro, that is known to be exceptionally good at recognizing old hardware, _Knoppix_. But it is made to run from a live drive (typically but not necessarily a USB pendrive). You can make a "poor man's install" which corresponds to frugal install or a persistent live system. So if nothing else works, you can resort to Knoppix. (I don't know if it would be accepted by your colleagues at work, but for a system at home, it should be OK).

http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html

----------


## kansasnoob

I'm actually thinking of two things:

(1) If you still have Ubuntu 12.04 installed and updated try installing only the package 'lubuntu-core'. It has a light foot print:



```
lance@lance-desktop:~$ sudo apt-get install lubuntu-core
[sudo] password for lance: 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
The following package was automatically installed and is no longer required:
  libgle3
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following extra packages will be installed:
  elementary-icon-theme galculator giblib1 gnome-icon-theme-full libfm-data
  libfm-gtk-data libfm-gtk1 libfm1 libid3tag0 libimlib2 libmenu-cache1
  libobrender27 libobt0 lightdm-gtk-greeter lubuntu-artwork
  lubuntu-artwork-12-04 lubuntu-default-settings lubuntu-icon-theme
  lxmenu-data lxpanel lxsession lxshortcut obconf openbox openbox-themes
  pcmanfm plymouth-theme-lubuntu-logo plymouth-theme-lubuntu-text scrot
  xscreensaver xscreensaver-data
Suggested packages:
  gpicview lxde-common menu ttf-dejavu libxml2-dev xfishtank xdaliclock
  xscreensaver-gl fortune qcam streamer gdm3 kdm-gdmcompat
Recommended packages:
  amixer
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  elementary-icon-theme galculator giblib1 gnome-icon-theme-full libfm-data
  libfm-gtk-data libfm-gtk1 libfm1 libid3tag0 libimlib2 libmenu-cache1
  libobrender27 libobt0 lightdm-gtk-greeter lubuntu-artwork
  lubuntu-artwork-12-04 lubuntu-core lubuntu-default-settings
  lubuntu-icon-theme lxmenu-data lxpanel lxsession lxshortcut obconf openbox
  openbox-themes pcmanfm plymouth-theme-lubuntu-logo
  plymouth-theme-lubuntu-text scrot xscreensaver xscreensaver-data
0 upgraded, 32 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.
Need to get 15.3 MB of archives.
After this operation, 62.6 MB of additional disk space will be used.
```

Then log into the Lubuntu session.

(2) Try LXLE:

http://lxle.net/

But wait until I have time to check out LXLE 12.04.4 because I'm not sure if they opted into the HWE stack or not  :Smile:

----------


## kansasnoob

> @ kansasnoob
> 
> After your posts in Launchpad, I've understood the problem regarding the support for HWE. Initially I didn't understand that every following version of Precise has got the HWE of Quantal (12.04.2), Raring (12.04.3) and Saucy (12.04.4). The link you've provided to me is very clear about this.
> 
> So, the last saturday the weather in Italy was very bad and I decided (to try) to format Kubuntu 12.04.4 (I got it from lsb_release -a) and to install a 12.04.1 iso. But the results weren't good, as probably you've already read in the lauchpad page of 'our' bug...
> 
> The frustrating aspect is that with the Livecd session speed, colours, resolution of the graphics are correct (even for 12.04.4), but during the installation something goes wrong. The most curious thing is that while installing Ubuntu 12.04.0 (the only one I was successful), the installation stops until you don't press any key, and it restarts (if you don't keep a finger on a key it's a continous 'stop and go')... but the installation goes wrong anyway, the graphic that was so nice with Livecd session doesn't work after (during the load the screen becomes dark). 
> So, the only solution I've found until now to see something on the screen is to put vesa driver in the conf.org file.
> With vesa the colours are correct but quite faded, and the maximum screen resolution is lower (from WXGA to XGA). In the livecd session, where I imagine that the loaded system is simpler than the installed one, screen resolution and colours are perfect. 
> ...


OK, you really love LXDE/Lubuntu - please see the highlighted text above. I happen to prefer a different DE but no problem  :Very Happy: 

I'd earlier recommended trying either installing 'lubuntu-core' in Ubuntu Precise (either 12.04 or 12.04.1) or trying the latest LXLE.

Well I tested LXLE 12.04.4 on this hardware:

VIA C7 CPU @ 1500MHz
*VIA CN700/P4M800 Pro/P4M800 CE/VN800 Graphics [S3 UniChrome Pro] (rev 01)*
VIA VT8233/A/8235/8237 AC97 Audio Controller (rev 60)
Ethernet controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6102 [Rhine-II] (rev 78)
1GB DDR2 RAM

The good news is that it works great so they opted out of the HWE stack. (BTW Xubuntu did the same).

The bad news is that I have a major problem with them enabling "proposed-updates" by default! I do a lot of SRU testing and I can assure you that having "proposed-updates" enabled will eventually bork your system!!!! So if you decide to use LXLE please disable the "proposed-updates" immediately after installation!!!!

And, as previously mentioned, DO NOT choose to download updates during installation!

I'm also a bit concerned because they include 'bleachbit' as a default app. I maintain quite a few machines and I find it capable of really breaking things if end users don't know what they're doing  :Sad: 

I'm also concerned about your problems with the installer (ubiquity) and grub. Since you're working with laptops are you using both a wired power source and a wired internet connection?

Installation, particularly in a dual/multi-boot does require a bit of knowledge and grub can be problematic if you don't know exactly what you're doing  :Very Happy:

----------


## vasa1

> ...
> I'm also a bit concerned *because they include 'bleachbit' as a default app*. I maintain quite a few machines and I find it capable of really breaking things if end users don't know what they're doing 
> ...


Can you please clarify what is meant by "they"? AFAIK, Lubuntu does _not_ install bleachbit by default. I don't know about LXLE.

----------


## kansasnoob

> Can you please clarify what is meant by "they"? AFAIK, Lubuntu does _not_ install bleachbit by default. I don't know about LXLE.


Right, it's a choice made by LXLE. A choice I dislike, so of the two choices I provided I would install either Ubuntu 12.04 or 12.04.1, then I'd install 'lubuntu-core' and login to Lubuntu  :Very Happy: 

Can't say I'm a huge fan of LXDE  :Sad: 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not hating on it! We just all have opinions and I'd personally always start with Ubuntu and apply my own tweaks.

----------


## sudodus

Have you noticed that the Ubuntu mini.iso seems to be replaced by a tarball in Trusty Tahr?

http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/

----------


## kansasnoob

> Have you noticed that the Ubuntu mini.iso seems to be replaced by a tarball in Trusty Tahr?
> 
> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-core/daily/current/


Uh, 'ubuntu-core' and the Netboot image are two different things:

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/m...nes/308/builds

But a few hours ago the netboot image had the wrong kernel - it takes a few hours some times for things to get in sync  :Wink:

----------


## sudodus

For several days (weeks) I have seen no mini.iso

Also now when following your link I get




> *Not Found*
> 
>  The requested URL  /ubuntu/dists/trusty/main/installer-i386/20101020ubuntu278/images/netboot/mini.iso  was not found on this server.
>  Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu) Server at archive.ubuntu.com Port 80

----------


## stilnovo1

Ciao from Italy!

Well, the main problem is that, once installed the 12.04.0 from alternate (it goes smooth without any problem), the system is not loaded and it remains only a dark screen: I suppose Xserver freezes there, although I have configurated a formally correct xorg.conf settings for openchrome. I've already learnt how to do with the "nice" Nvidia Riva TNT 2, other unpleasant hardware that I've found on 4 Pcs in our company!! The Xserver log is a precious informations' source about this!

Erick, I've done all the installations with a connected power cable and with a wired connection, so I'm quite hopeless! I've followed every instruction you gave me (no updates, 12.04.1 and 12.04.0 iso etc.). By the way, you are right, Ubuntu DE is very pleasant, I think I'll install it very soon but my colleagues prefer something more traditional and less effective on the system resource... so we come back also to LXDE!

Jokes aside, this is an interesting world, on one of those company's pcs I've installed KDE together with LXDE, and to me it seems to have different computers! But now I have to solve this problems... Some days ago I installed also Bleachbit: I've found it very similar to CCleaner for Windows world.

----------


## kansasnoob

> For several days (weeks) I have seen no mini.iso
> 
> Also now when following your link I get


Yeah, it seems the QA Tracker is a hot mess, but these links to the mini.iso should work if the kernel has been upgraded:

http://www.fr.php.net/ubuntu/dists/t...mages/netboot/

http://www.fr.php.net/ubuntu/dists/t...mages/netboot/

----------


## sudodus

> Yeah, it seems the QA Tracker is a hot mess, but these links to the mini.iso should work if the kernel has been upgraded:
> 
> http://www.fr.php.net/ubuntu/dists/t...mages/netboot/
> 
> http://www.fr.php.net/ubuntu/dists/t...mages/netboot/


They work

Thanks a lot _kansasnoob_  :Very Happy:

----------


## stilnovo1

ciao from Italy!

Well, after I have read the nice sudodus' tutorial he wrote about Lubuntu-fake-pae, and since I have a Dothan CPU, I have looked for a distro that could have an installation without PAE feature.
Hardinfo gave me pae feature in the list, but I've seen in many forums that this is a controversial issue.
So I've tried to install, after sudodus' suggestions, Bodhi Linux 32 bits but the non-pae version.
Ok, now I'm writing from the hateful Amilo 7320 with correct screen resolution, correct colours and with an incredible speed (lshw doesn't give me the openchrome driver, but it works!).
Some strange things have occurred, mainly the one that during the installation I had to continously press an any key as I've already written in one of my past posts here, otherwise the installation freezes.
The impact with Body has been a little bit hard, but now the system runs quite well.
Excuse me for the probably silly question, but should I open a post regarding this laptop? We have bought it (them) in 2007, so I don't think it's so old (is it?).

@ sudodus: in your opinion, may I try to install beside to Bodhi a new Ubuntu 12.04 installation following the procedure you have described? I imagine I cannot install Unity as a DE via the terminal in Bodhi, or can I? I imagined to do a new partition and then a new Precise installation.... 
anyway, it's hard life! I imagine that there will be other Amilo 7320 owners that will pass from XP to 'other', so this could be useful to facilitate this complicated migration towards Ubuntu of Lubuntu or (why not?) Kubuntu 12.04 (14.04?)....

----------


## sudodus

> ciao from Italy!
> 
> Well, after I have read the nice sudodus' tutorial he wrote about Lubuntu-fake-pae, and since I have a Dothan CPU, I have looked for a distro that could have an installation without PAE feature.
> Hardinfo gave me pae feature in the list, but I've seen in many forums that this is a controversial issue.
> So I've tried to install, after sudodus' suggestions, Bodhi Linux 32 bits but the non-pae version.
> Ok, now I'm writing from the hateful Amilo 7320 with correct screen resolution, correct colours and with an incredible speed (lshw doesn't give me the openchrome driver, but it works!).
> Some strange things have occurred, mainly the one that during the installation I had to continously press an any key as I've already written in one of my past posts here, otherwise the installation freezes.
> The impact with Body has been a little bit hard, but now the system runs quite well.
> Excuse me for the probably silly question, but should I open a post regarding this laptop? We have bought it (them) in 2007, so I don't think it's so old (is it?).


I think it is better to have a thread, that is dedicated to your problems with this laptop. It makes it easier to keep those specific posts apart from all other StartUbuntu Project posts, and it might also attract new helpers. Make a 'transfer post' in this thread with a link to that new thread (when you have started it).



> @ sudodus: in your opinion, may I try to install beside to Bodhi a new Ubuntu 12.04 installation following the procedure you have described? I imagine I cannot install Unity as a DE via the terminal in Bodhi, or can I? I imagined to do a new partition and then a new Precise installation.... 
> anyway, it's hard life! I imagine that there will be other Amilo 7320 owners that will pass from XP to 'other', so this could be useful to facilitate this complicated migration towards Ubuntu of Lubuntu or (why not?) Kubuntu 12.04 (14.04?)....


Yes you can make a small partition of say 12 GB and install whatever distro, flavour, re-spin of linux, that you want to test. Alternatively, you can test it on an external drive. A fast USB 3 pendrive or a USB hard disk drive is good enough for such installations too, if you do not want to mess with the internal drive. See these links

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...n/FromUSBStick

One Button Installer, 'OBI'

Howto help USB boot drives

and of course the Lubuntu-fake-PAE link. Many of the tarballs of the OBI will run with non-pae CPUs.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

Good news is:
http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-mark...tubuntu-flyer/

Xubuntu Team seems to be the only 'interested' team to spread the word of StartUbuntu and Xubuntu at the same time and they seem so serious to offer Xubuntu as Windows XP alternative (which as per my own personal real life experience, it is indeed one of the strongest options for many reasons) and I personally highly appreciate their great efforts and I'm helping them both in real life and on the internet as much as I can. 

Bad news is:
Other flavours are not doing anything serious as of now. Yes, many are interested but very few contributions.

Really, it is not a rocket science  :Smile: 
Everything you need is here. If you wish to support your favourite Ubuntu variant, then what are you waiting for?  :Wink:  clock is ticking  :Smile: 

I am not going to contact each and every Ubuntu Community. If they wish to spread the word of their own flavour, that is good and if they don't, that is their call.

I'm personally wishing all the best to Xubuntu Team for what they're doing - great job really.
I wish all the other flavours will do that same.

P.S.
I can only keep nagging Alfredo (Ubuntu GNOME Artwork Team Leader) to do the same for Ubuntu GNOME  :Wink:

----------


## KBD47

I installed the Xubuntu 14.04 alpha2 to a computer last night, and it looks to be a very strong release. Nice looking distro too.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

I'm very puzzled. I'm, really. Why the world is wasting their time?

I feel so bad and sad about this  :Sad: 

This article: http://zd.net/1hbxAKs
Made me so bad.

I am not sure if this is right or wrong, healthy or not but IMHO, this is a totally waste of time. I know we can't force everyone to use Linux, this is just can't happen but what I mean is, people are wasting their time with endless discussion, buy the headache, waste their money, efforts, energy, etc etc ... for what? over Windows XP? really? sigh!

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Hi,
> 
> I'm very puzzled. I'm, really. Why the world is wasting their time?
> 
> I feel so bad and sad about this


People hate changes.  :Smile:  Even on these forums there were folks showing up not long ago wondering why their lucid or Karmic (Karmic???!!!) machines weren't working and would rather resorting to some weird work arounds to hang on to their dead OSes instead of simply installing a supported version of Ubuntu.

----------


## Habitual

> Windows XP EOL will be April, 2014. There is no much time left.


It's not going to stop working all of a sudden.

More FUD, I fear.
Windows XP going EOL, I do not.

----------


## KBD47

I think some people will not accept what to them is a theoretical danger, plus they think Microsoft just wants to sell them a new OS. I think the approach should be a positive one. Ask them why they want to run an outdated OS when they can use a faster, lighter, much better looking Linux system that is safe and secure and takes little effort to install  :Smile:

----------


## monkeybrain20122

My brother is one of those people who will stick to xp regardless. He has a brand new, super powerful desktop running XP(yeah one of the few people I know who still own desktops) He makes the machine look like some relic from the 1980's. He has a huge collection of 1980's music in his music folder which I have a hard time even recalling the name of some of these people. All his software is outdated and some has been dead even before there was ubuntu. He is one of those "I hate change" people. He sounds and behaves a lot older than he actually is (keeping saying he is too old to learn new things, the guy is only 40!). He says he cannot switch to other os or upgrade Windows because no modern OS would run his software collection.  :Surprised:  But he was sufficiently impressed when I showed him a Ubuntu installation in an external drive which he could boot off his machine.

----------


## neel3

> it may give the inaccurate impression that Linux is a 2nd tier OS good only for very old hardware.Maybe you can add a statement "Ubuntu will be great too if you hate Windows 8!"  Indeed if I have a very old  XP machine my choice wouldn't be Ubuntu, something like debian with a light desktop (LXDE or xfce) would make more sense


Until steam machines launch, our only option is to install Linux on older machines.
if you don't agree, give me one International brand that sells mid to high range graphics/gaming computer.

When steam OS launches, Brand names like Acer, Asus, Lenovo, etc. will start shipping Linux(including Steam OS) computers worldwide to compete with steam machines. Currently, these companies don't see high end Linux frontier as a feasible market.

Most people require a "need" to change their lifestyle, including their computing habits. The path Microsoft is taking with Windows 8 is "need" enough to change from Windows XP to Linux for most XP users.
Others have a specific "need", like they may have bought software worth thousands of dollars, which is compatible with XP only, and requires a similar amount to get a version compatible with the latest OS. For simplified example, think Macromedia Flash vs. Adobe Flash CS6

@ amjjawad,
Why dosen't your project include Linux Mint & Zorin OS ?

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Until steam machines launch, our only option is to install Linux on older machines.
> if you don't agree, give me one International brand that sells mid to high range graphics/gaming computer.


Actually most computer users don't play games. Gamers are a small but vocal minority of computer users. On the other hand most laptops from the last 3 years would come with at least 4 G of ram and it can run full blown Ubuntu with all the eye candies without problem and much faster than Windows, let alone lubuntu.

----------


## kansasnoob

> Actually most computer users don't play games. Gamers are a small but vocal minority of computer users. On the other hand most laptops from the last 3 years would come with at least 4 G of ram and it can run full blown Ubuntu with all the eye candies without problem, let alone lubuntu.


+1!

Especially true of XP users!

True gamers stay updated constantly, I know because I buy a lot of their recycled hardware  :Very Happy:

----------


## neel3

> Actually most computer users don't play games. Gamers are a small but vocal minority of computer users. On the other hand most laptops from the last 3 years would come with at least 4 G of ram and it can run full blown Ubuntu with all the eye candies without problem and much faster than Windows, let alone lubuntu.


I said graphics first, gaming second.
Graphics for Linux = GIMP, Inkscape, Synfig Studio, Audacity,   Blender, FreeCAD, etc.

Desktop high range Specs in 2005 : 8 GB DDR2, 1 GB GDDR3
Desktop high range Specs in 2015 : 64 GB DDR4, 5GB GDDR6

9 year old specs still looks prety good; the 4 GB RAM you are talking about is from pre-XP era, when graphics cards were still in their infancy.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> I said graphics first, gaming second.
> Graphics for Linux = GIMP, Inkscape, Synfig Studio, Audacity,   Blender, FreeCAD, etc.
> 
> Desktop high range Specs in 2005 : 8 GB DDR2, 1 GB GDDR3
> Desktop high range Specs in 2015 : 64 GB DDR4, 5GB GDDR6
> 
> 9 year old specs still looks prety good; the 4 GB RAM you are talking about is from pre-XP era, when graphics cards were still in their infancy.


Actually graphic tends to work better with newer machines because of better drivers (except the most bleeding edge releases) Nvidia's Linux support is on par with Windows'--unless you get optimus but I heard bumblebee actually is working very well. Intel drivers are also better for new hd graphic than old cards. AMD doesn't even release drivers for old cards. In general the graphic card manufacturers for obvious reason don't care for old hardware and many old cards can't even work with the latest FOSS drivers (incompatible kernel etc)

Other than gamers no one really complains about Linux's graphic (on recent enough hardware). There are of course issues here and there especially with AMD apparently, but the loudest complaint always come from gamers. I doubt that you need ultra high fps to work with gimp, inkscape, blender etc. Gamers tend to be people with too much time, too much money to burn and no  social life  :Smile:  They are a tiny but obnoxiously nitpicking  minority  whose obsessions usually have little to with most users'.

----------


## neel3

Yes, AMD is going the way of walled garden, especially with it's Mantle technology. 
nVidia has been more open since nVidia saw marketing opportunities, first in Android, then in Steam Machines.



> Other than gamers no one really complains about Linux's graphic (on recent enough hardware). I doubt that you need ultra high fps to work with gimp, inkscape, blender etc. Gamers tend to be people with too much time, too much money to burn and no  social life They are a tiny but obnoxiously nitpicking  minority  whose obsessions usually have little to with most users'.


FPS is a gaming term, not a requirement for Graphics applications. Rendering needs graphics power, & larger projects need more memory.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi and thanks for posting  :Smile: 




> Until steam machines launch, our only option is to install Linux on older machines.
> if you don't agree, give me one International brand that sells mid to high range graphics/gaming computer.
> 
> When steam OS launches, Brand names like Acer, Asus, Lenovo, etc. will start shipping Linux(including Steam OS) computers worldwide to compete with steam machines. Currently, these companies don't see high end Linux frontier as a feasible market.
> 
> Most people require a "need" to change their lifestyle, including their computing habits. The path Microsoft is taking with Windows 8 is "need" enough to change from Windows XP to Linux for most XP users.
> Others have a specific "need", like they may have bought software worth thousands of dollars, which is compatible with XP only, and requires a similar amount to get a version compatible with the latest OS. For simplified example, think Macromedia Flash vs. Adobe Flash CS6


Have you watched this before?
The father of Linux is explaining why Linux didn't take over the desktop machines yet  :Smile: 




> @ amjjawad,
> Why dosen't your project include Linux Mint & Zorin OS ?


Simply, because we're not at Phase 6 yet  :Wink: 

As long as it is StartUbuntu, I can't include any other system except Ubuntu and all its official variants.

Above all, it is VERY bad idea to provide lots of options to newcomers. This is a very confusing and we have discussed that over and over again on many mailing lists and teams and communities and here on the Ubuntu Forums as well that one of the worst nightmares for newcomers to Linux coming from Windows is: there are SO MANY options they may be offered, and not to mention, the very worst advice in the history of humanity when you ask a super newcomer to visit DistroWatch.com  :Smile:  he/she will right away go back to Windows and never come back again.

The idea is NOT just spread the word of Linux/FOSS but rather think HOWTO do that  :Wink: 
We must follow the right approach.

There are categories of users that StartUbuntu project should NOT bother nor waste time with. Those "I hate to change, I am in love with XP" who will never ever change no matter what you show them, etc etc is a category that I advice to not waste any efforts as a community. However, if someone has a brother, a friend, etc .. he/she can try with them as an individual. As a community, our efforts should be focused on specific categories and I have explained that on this thread over and over again  :Smile: 

Everything should be here:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu

If you couldn't find what you're looking for, please let us know  :Smile: 

Also, the reason why Xubuntu Flyer has only two options was indeed the very same reason why it is a super bad idea to give a newcomer more than 2 options.

Option 1: If your machine can handle Ubuntu AND you like Unity = Use Ubuntu
Option 2: If your machine can't handle Ubuntu AND/OR you don't like Unity = Use Xubuntu, Lubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME and/or Kubuntu

As for
Ubuntu Stuido
Edubuntu
and the rest

I consider these options as somehow special case. For example, if someone doesn't need any education packages installed by default, there is no reason to use Edubutnu  :Smile: 

Hope that helps!

----------


## stilnovo1

@sudodus: since I'm new to this forum, may I ask to you a suggestion on where (category) to start my new threat regarding that "pleasable" Amilo L7320? The problem, as you know is about the difficulty of installation.

By the way, today I have just done another installation on a friend of mine's laptop. With this pc, from when I've approached the Linux' world (last september), I've "converted" a total of 10 computers, all of them were running XP. 7 of them now have Lubuntu 13.10, 2 Xubuntu 12.04, 1 Kubuntu 12.04.

Well, I'm not a veteran, but I can say that no one of those installations has been easy: I've learnt a lot of things and for this I'm quite happy, but I think that a person that is not stubborn like me maybe would prefer an easier way to install. To be better precise: the installation would be easy, but it always happens something that makes hard to do a fast thing: an unsupported graphic card, a processor with a Celeron M inside (for example!!) etc. that complicate very much.

I'm talking about hardware that actually is running XP, so I think that it should be very well supported without to oblige a normal user to become an expert of HWE stack, for example.

Once people have a problemless working machine today, for sure the same people will buy in the future a new Ubuntu-powered computer.

So, I think that from one side developers should be more (Pangoline) precise on the analisys about the drivers and the procedures for the machines that are actually running XP, specially the developers that take care about Lubuntu and Xubuntu: simple and clear procedures on how to convert an XP machine to one of that two 'flavours', maybe the most suitables for those computers. Now many things are clear to me, but believe to me that I've discovered only in recent times this beautiful world: it's not simple for a normal user to convert its machine from XP to another OS. The steps to do this must be simples and clears. 

I think that it could be very useful to do a page for newbies where to teach in very simple words, with some images and with a basic glossary, the basic concepts as 'repository', superuser, why you have to mount a partition before to look at in etc. 
Very simple things for all of you, but quite hard at the beginning. Once you have known them, they won't frighten you anymore! Yes, there are many books, tutorials etc but why don't make things easier?
Another useful thing could be to find one/two slogans, in order to excite people curiosity. For sure, in these critical economical times nobody wants to throw away your own computer!
I've seen that once installed, in less than a month a person can use L/Xubuntu with succes and satisfaction.
Am I wrong?

----------


## wiggy252

Agree with the above!
MY dads Laptop running Vista was just going wrong all the time.
I have now installed Ubuntu 13.10 and it wasn't easy, he would never have been able to do it.

You need to plug the ethernet cable in as the wireless adapter card is not recognised.
The display was very blocky then just lines across it after install, so un-useable!

Luckily after the third power off/on the display stayed on long enough for me to download the additonal drivers so I could select the Broadcom wireless driver and Nvidia graphics card.
These should be included without having to download them!
What concerns me is that if the screen hadn't recovered how would you manage to get it up and running, remembering that a complete novice wouldn't know anything about the terminal.

After that printing should be sorted out, if you have a HP printer then  your in luck as they do provide very good Linux support, the canon  printer did work but not great and a lot of functionality was messed up.

These basic sorts of things really need to be what I would class as a priority because a newcomer who runs in to these issues on a first trial or install will just give up and go back to Windows/Mac
Its OK having all the latest gizmos and gadgets for the desktop, but if you can't get to the the point of even seeing them it's a little bit pointless.

Cheers

Ian

----------


## sudodus

> @sudodus: since I'm new to this forum, may I ask to you a suggestion on where (category) to start my new thread regarding that "pleasable" Amilo L7320? The problem, as you know is about the difficulty of installation.


I would put the new thread in the Hardware forum and write about the problematic hardware (the graphics card) in the opening post. You can also add links to related topics (including some of your posts in this thread). But it can also be argued that it should be put in the Installation & Upgrades forum.



> By the way, today I have just done another installation on a friend of mine's laptop. With this pc, from when I've approached the Linux' world (last september), I've "converted" a total of 10 computers, all of them were running XP. 7 of them now have Lubuntu 13.10, 2 Xubuntu 12.04, 1 Kubuntu 12.04.
> 
> Well, I'm not a veteran, but I can say that no one of those installations has been easy: I've learnt a lot of things and for this I'm quite happy, but I think that a person that is not stubborn like me maybe would prefer an easier way to install. To be better precise: the installation would be easy, but it always happens something that makes hard to do a fast thing: an unsupported graphic card, a processor with a Celeron M inside (for example!!) etc. that complicate very much.
> 
> I'm talking about hardware that actually is running XP, so I think that it should be very well supported without to oblige a normal user to become an expert of HWE stack, for example.
> 
> Once people have a problemless working machine today, for sure the same people will buy in the future a new Ubuntu-powered computer.
> 
> So, I think that from one side developers should be more (Pangoline) precise on the analisys about the drivers and the procedures for the machines that are actually running XP, specially the developers that take care about Lubuntu and Xubuntu: simple and clear procedures on how to convert an XP machine to one of that two 'flavours', maybe the most suitables for those computers. Now many things are clear to me, but believe to me that I've discovered only in recent times this beautiful world: it's not simple for a normal user to convert its machine from XP to another OS. The steps to do this must be simples and clears. 
> ...


I have also climbed a long and sometimes steep learning curve for linux. There are attempts to make things easier. Ubuntu's main goal is this (but it is focusing on newer hardware than that of old XP computers) and it is still difficult because the hardware manufacturers are not interested enough of the free and open software. They think (or know?!) that there is not enough money to earn by making linux drivers.

If this is important enough for you, and you have the time, please help us improving the Ubuntu community documents (the wiki pages). To give you an example, I 'adopted' the following old and existing page, and I try to improve it and keep it up to date.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/In...n/FromUSBStick

----------


## stilnovo1

@ sudodus: thank you very much for the suggestions!

Finally, I've begun the new thread regarding the problems on Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo L7320 here. 

I can undestand that Ubuntu is focusing on newer hardware, but it would be very nice if Lubuntu or Xubuntu would concentrate their efforts on XP-running hardware. How can you find new users if you don't introduce them to the use? And what better oportunity will occur than this one in april? If I were an Ubuntu developer I would be very focused on the next 14.04 L/Xubuntu versions, maybe those are the most important 'flavours' in this historical moment. Then, when you will have a user base, the things will be easier and you will be able to promote every DE environment in a new hardware. I'm trying to convince my Company to switch to Lubuntu, but this problem on my laptop (owned by other colleagues in my company) has put on hold my idea... so in the future it will be difficult for me to convince the Property to buy a new Linux-powered pc. My colleagues want to turn on the pc, to use facebook and (sometimes) to work on it!


@ sudodus: I see that you are an expert, and the page you have 'adopted' requires advanced technical knowledge that I actually don't have... it's not a long time I've discovered the Linux world (from the last september), and I "study" only in few moments in my free time (in this period I was ill at home, so I had some more time...).

Anyway, I'd like to participate to something like a page for real absolute beginners: I've seen for example on my parents that want to learn to use a pc (digital divide due to the age), that it's easier for them to learn with Lubuntu (13.10) than with Win 7. 
I think that this Community should create a website or a project where to spread the 'LABC' (LinuxABC): I remember at the beginning that I wasn't able to understand what a repository was for example. Also looking for a program doing simple things like to erase the cache has not been so simple: the first time I've put a search more or less like "CCleaner for Linux"!!
Finally, we can say that you/we should create a more popular culture about this arguments.
Unluckily, for the moment I don't feel myself so ready for more skilled arguments... if there were simpler things...

----------


## kansasnoob

> @ sudodus: thank you very much for the suggestions!
> 
> Finally, I've begun the new thread regarding the problems on Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo L7320 here. 
> 
> I can undestand that Ubuntu is focusing on newer hardware, but it would be very nice if Lubuntu or Xubuntu would concentrate their efforts on XP-running hardware. How can you find new users if you don't introduce them to the use? And what better oportunity will occur than this one in april? If I were an Ubuntu developer I would be very focused on the next 14.04 L/Xubuntu versions, maybe those are the most important 'flavours' in this historical moment. Then, when you will have a user base, the things will be easier and you will be able to promote every DE environment in a new hardware. I'm trying to convince my Company to switch to Lubuntu, but this problem on my laptop (owned by other colleagues in my company) has put on hold my idea... so in the future it will be difficult for me to convince the Property to buy a new Linux-powered pc. My colleagues want to turn on the pc, to use facebook and (sometimes) to work on it!
> 
> 
> @ sudodus: I see that you are an expert, and the page you have 'adopted' requires advanced technical knowledge that I actually don't have... it's not a long time I've discovered the Linux world (from the last september), and I "study" only in few moments in my free time (in this period I was ill at home, so I had some more time...).
> 
> ...


I subscribed to that thread out of curiosity but I'll be busy for about a week with iso-testing  :Smile:

----------


## sudodus

> @ sudodus: thank you very much for the suggestions!
> 
> Finally, I've begun the new thread regarding the problems on Fujitsu-Siemens Amilo L7320 here.


I'll subscribe to that page  :Smile: 



> Anyway, I'd like to participate to something like a page for real absolute beginners: I've seen for example on my parents that want to learn to use a pc (digital divide due to the age), that it's easier for them to learn with Lubuntu (13.10) than with Win 7. 
> I think that this Community should create a website or a project where to spread the 'LABC' (LinuxABC): I remember at the beginning that I wasn't able to understand what a repository was for example. Also looking for a program doing simple things like to erase the cache has not been so simple: the first time I've put a search more or less like "CCleaner for Linux"!!
> Finally, we can say that you/we should create a more popular culture about this arguments.
> Unluckily, for the moment I don't feel myself so ready for more skilled arguments... if there were simpler things...


I think it is a great idea to create or develop a website or a project where to spread the 'LABC' (LinuxABC).

There should be several such websites already, at different levels (on a scale from simple to advanced) and focusing on different aspects of linux. Maybe it would be possible for you to find bits and pieces and merge them to something that really will help beginners. So you can create a 'hub' where people can find basic tips and links to more detailed information.

In priciple these Ubuntu Forums are intended to serve that purpose, to find the right level in dialogue with the user who has a problem, suggest solutions directly and link to deeper sources of information. Sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail to find the right level in dialogue with the user who has a problem.

----------


## Elfy

> ... but it would be very nice if Lubuntu or Xubuntu would concentrate their efforts on XP-running hardware...


From the Xubuntu strategy document




> Xubuntu does not explicitly target users with low, modest, or high powered machines but instead targets the entire spectrum.


if by 


> concentrate their efforts on XP-running hardware


 you mean make sure the OS we are readying for release in 2014 should be able to run on machines that were running XP in the early part of the 2000's - then you'll be in for a shock.

If it works on those machines then that's great.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Xubuntu 13.10 is running great on a 2005 Dell Dimension 2400. Just needs a PCI video card for graphics.

----------


## sudodus

> I'm trying to convince my Company to switch to Lubuntu, but this problem on my laptop (owned by other colleagues in my company) has put on hold my idea... so in the future it will be difficult for me to convince the Property to buy a new Linux-powered pc. My colleagues want to turn on the pc, to use facebook and (sometimes) to work on it!


I've been thinking about this - _how to convert to linux in a company or a particular office or site of a company or other organisation_.

Many old and 'middle-aged' computers, that run Windows XP, Vista or 7 work well with linux without any tweaking or proprietary drivers. Some computers have hardware, that does not work well with linux, and it might be possible but time-consuming to make them work properly. I think you must focus of what works without too much effort, otherwise it will cost more to convert an old computer than to buy a new one with Windows or Mac OS.

But there is another way to go. Middle-aged or even fairly new computers are discarded by big companies and other organisations. There are companies that specialize in taking care of these computers, wiping the hard disk drives according to certified methods. As a by-product these specialist companies can sell the discarded computers 'second-hand' with or without an installed operating system. In many countries, for example Sweden, there is a market for such second-hand computers of good quality, and some companies and organisations as well as private persons buy them instead of new computers.

_It is possible to find batches of second-hand computers that play well with Ubuntu or an Ubuntu based flavour like Xubuntu, Lubuntu or Kubuntu_, and it is a better option to buy such computers, than to try converting computers, that you have in the company, but cannot co-operate with linux.

----------


## Tar_Ni

Xubuntu 13.10 works so well of my Pentium 4 that I wish it were a LTS  release. I am afraid to switch over 14.04 in April, for fear that it might not work as well.

 Really, I've tried many distros and flavour, such as Ubuntu,  Lubuntu, Mint Cinnamon and Xfce, Puppy, Buddhie Linux, LXLE ect and all had problems and  didn't work well with my hardwares. I am not an expert and have no time nor the motivation to spend days making things work. I just want something that can prolong the life of this computer without much tweaking.

So far Xubuntu 13.10 works flawlessy and though it's perhaps not as lightweight as Lubuntu it is a lot more responsive than Ubuntu on older hardwares.





> Xubuntu 13.10 is running great on a 2005 Dell Dimension 2400. Just needs a PCI video card for graphics.


How much RAM do you have in it?

----------


## SurfaceUnits



----------


## SurfaceUnits

My Ubuntu Gnome 13.10 Desktop for Dell PC's with dual core CPU's or better and at least 2GB RAM



Dash to Dock Extension installed as well as Cairo-Dock. And I always install KingSoft Office for its ability to render MS Office documents

----------


## stilnovo1

@kansasnoob, @sudodus: thanks for having subscribed my (first) thread in Ubuntu Forums!

@Elfy: my phrase about targeting XP-running machines was above all an hope! I think that a lot of people actually use one or even more computers that runs XP (among desktops, laptops etc.). All those computers where will they go? I've thought it could be an occasion for Xubuntu but I'm quite new to this interesting world and I still cannot understand all the differences between the different distros.

----------


## Tar_Ni

I agree with you stilnovo1,

But I think that Xubuntu already works well on XP era machines in terms of performance. It's as much responsive as Windows XP if not more and use less RAM and CPU. I mean it seems that a lot of people are running 13.10 on computers with 1GB RAM or less without any problem. My hope is that Xubuntu 14.04 will give around the same performance as 13.10 on these machines, so that users will be able to sit on this LTS for at least 5 years if need be.

----------


## amjjawad

ChangeYourOS-2reasons.jpg

----------


## amjjawad

> Anyway, I'd like to participate to something like a page for real absolute beginners: I've seen for example on my parents that want to learn to use a pc (digital divide due to the age), that it's easier for them to learn with Lubuntu (13.10) than with Win 7. 
> I think that this Community should create a website or a project where to spread the 'LABC' (LinuxABC): I remember at the beginning that I wasn't able to understand what a repository was for example. Also looking for a program doing simple things like to erase the cache has not been so simple: the first time I've put a search more or less like "CCleaner for Linux"!!
> Finally, we can say that you/we should create a more popular culture about this arguments.
> Unluckily, for the moment I don't feel myself so ready for more skilled arguments... if there were simpler things...


Hi there,

I'm not just the founder of StartUbuntu but also the founder of this project which is exactly what you're talking about. I thought to merge the two projects but then, I gave it another thought. StartUbuntu is growing faster and faster than IamNewToLinux and one day, StartUbuntu will go to Phase 6 and be StartLinux so I don't think it is good idea to merge these two projects but rather keep them to work side by side  :Smile: 

If you're interested, contact me directly and let's keep this thread for 'StartUbuntu' Project only, shall we?  :Smile: 

IMHO, there is no need to create new projects but rather use existing ones. Let's join forces, not spread the efforts across so many projects and directions. This will leave us weak, not strong. This is what I learned the hard way with 3 years being super active for many Ubuntu Communities. 

It doesn't matter whether you are an expert or not, in fact, you might be the best candidate to help. Those who have spent some years with Linux, most of them find hard time to communicate with newcomers to Linux. Sometimes, I feel that myself. That is why I always seek to deal with newcomers and convert people to Linux in real life as I showed here on this thread.

StartUbuntu has a noble cause  :Smile: 
Saving time, money and trouble for Windows XP Users and that is just the beginning.

Once we are done from Windows XP, we will start targeting other versions  :Wink: 
And, once we grow even bigger, it will be time for Phase 6 and StartUbuntu will be StartLinux. However, this will never happen 'unless' other communities join. Someone the other day asked why Linux Mint isn't included for example? well, when it is the right time to go to phase 6 AND other communities are interested, why not?

As for now, StartUbuntu will use the main flavours only: Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME.
As I explained earlier, other flavours such as Ubuntu Studio has special uses and after all, it runes XFCE  :Smile: 

Hope this help  :Wink:

----------


## SurfaceUnits

> 


An inexpensive GeForce 8400 GS PCI video card, nVidia driver, and nomodeset in grub and everything is spiffalicious

----------


## eric152

Windows XP will not get support anymore, so indeed, Linux could be a good alternative to make these old PC still working safe online! But the question is: which one with which support?

People still having XP enjoyed over 10 years of support from Microsoft, and out of the scope of the 6 months Linux release cycle: they will probably be more interessted by the LTS versions!

Windows XP came out in 2001 and became very popular the SP1 out in 2002. It was the time of desktop computers based on Athlon XP and Pentium 4  by 2 Ghz, with 256 MB of RAM or more. It was the time of the AGP graphic cards, before the PCI Express came out. In 2002, the main stream user had middle range graphic cards like Geforce4 ti4200 or even the MX range, or the Ati 9200 and co. 

LXDE is the one of the lightest desktop environment and these PC could quite easily run a current Lubuntu distribution. These PC still work fine for family office and internet work. The Windows XP environment get too much slow down with an antivirus software, so Linux without will be much faster. The only part where they are out of the game are online video, since FlashPlayer is so hungry and makes the video so slow!

We come to the main issue under Linux: the VGA DRIVER!
The open source drivers are to buggy to be used in a daily basis. I've tried Lubuntu 13.x with a Geforce2 MX and the "nouveau" driver, and the icon are not even shown on the destkop! 

Nvidia and Ati ended the support of their 10+ years old cards. Their proprietary drivers -I think here especially on the nvidia-96x serie- only run up to X.org 1.12.

So unfortunately, current/upcoming 2014 LTS distributions does NOT offer any alternative to Windows XP for these early XP PC!

If we stick with the proprietary driver, we have to go back to the distribution with X.org <= 1.12.
And if we think long term support, I see the following possibilities:

- Current Debian stable 7.x with X.org 1.12. Stable are out ~ every 2 years, with 1 year support after the new one. 7.x came out in mid 2013, so this will offer support to mid 2016.
- Ubuntu 12.04 LTS is based on X.org 1.11. Support until 04.2017. Unfortunately, the lighter derivate Xubuntu LTS has only 3 years support so until 04.2015, and even lighter Lubuntu was NOT a LTS. 
- Mint 13 LTS based on the above offer also support until 04.2017, but seems that LXDE is not proposed anymore. A pitty since Mint seens to already integrate the proprietary VGA drivers!

I really wish the Lubuntu 14.04 LTS would be based on Xorg 1.12 like Debian 7.x

So middle term solution: "old" Linux from 2012
Long term solution: fix the open source drivers???

----------


## sudodus

The linux drivers for graphics are certainly creating problems for many old computers and their owners. Fortunately many graphics cards are still supported, at least if we step forward in time of manufacture from 2001 to around 2004. XP was delivered with computers during several years (overlapping Vista and later on delivered with netbooks).

See the first and the few last posts of this link for tips about Ubuntu based linux versions, flavours and respins: Old hardware brought back to life

----------


## eric152

thanks, it describes more distribution, and the LXLE should be the best choice for a computer from 2002-2004.
It fits the "10 years support": for a 2002-2004 computer, take a 2012 LTS. For a 2004+ computer, wait for the 2014 LTS?

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Patrick d'Emmabuntüs has announced the release of the latest update to Emmabuntüs, a Xubuntu-based distribution made specifically for refurbished computers destined for humanitarian organisations: "The  Emmabuntüs team is pleased to announce the 6th maintenance release of  Emmabuntüs 2 1.07 based on Xubuntu 12.04.4. This distribution was  designed to make the refurbishing of computers given to humanitarian  organizations, especially Emmaüs communities (where the name comes  from), and to promote the discovery of Linux by beginners, but also to  extend the lifespan of the equipment and to reduce over consumption and  over waste in electronics.

http://distrowatch.com/8315

----------


## Tar_Ni

@eric152
The support for Windows XP is ending on April 8, 2014. The new Ubuntu LTS is coming on 17 April 2014. It's only 9 days of difference. I think that XP users genuinely interested to switch over the Ubuntu family can wait for this short amount of time after the support of XP is ended.

At any rate, users of PC with 256MB should consider using Linux Puppy or DSM (Damn Small Linux) instead as I think that even Lubuntu is more apt to perform decently on a 512MB RAM system at least. PCs below 512MB are becoming scarce in use these days anyway.

It is my understanding that most XP users today have computers ranging between 512MB and 2GB of RAM. Which is what Lubuntu and Xubuntu are best at. Above 2GB you can run Windows 7 comfortably and so that's probably where these users will be going to.

----------


## eric152

Yes, waiting for the 2014 LTS is probably the best choice for PC <= 10 years old. For older (2000-2004), the 2012 LTS based distro might be a better option because of the VGA drivers as explained before.
It seems there are plenty of distro anyway: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightwe...x_distribution

About the choice of a distribution, what is still unclear to me is the Ubuntu upgrade or re install strategy, so I opened a new thread for that here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2208224
I just know that under Debian, it is very easy with "apt-get dist upgrade" ...

----------


## mastablasta

there is a blog example on start ubuntu page. is that allowed to be used/translated into local labguage? i am talking the one where it describes linux vs. windows differences and sugestions on distro of choice.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

My most recent XP replacement install

----------


## stilnovo1

@amjjawad: Hi, now I've better understood all your huge activity you do to spread this world... It now sometimes happen to me to talk in everyday life about using a computer in a different way from which we are used, at least for people like me that have discovered the Linux-based OS only in recent times... I've always thought that this was a way for university students or for geeks or for engineers, but now I realize that those were only my prejudices.
Unluckily, my (low) technical level and even my scarce free time don't make me a valuable collaborator, but if you think I can do something, I can try.
I above all think at people like me that try to approach this world (here it is my idea of "Lab-c" Linux abc - just kidding!).
I've seen tons of tutorials, guides etc. but no one for normal people (for 'normal' I mean people who are'n passionate about informatics) that want to turn on a pc and to use it without thinking too much about which engine is moving the car, at least at the beginning. 
For example ,a lot of people use Android devices with quite powerful smartphones: after all, the Android's roots are in part in this world and should be or should become quite normal for an Android's user to become a Linux's user...

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

I was bored so thought to do something useful and convert the negative feeling to a positive one  :Wink: 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu#Updates

http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2014/03...tem-based.html

Please, spread the word  :Smile: 

Thank you!

----------


## neel3

My little contribution to this project...
http://opensource.wikia.com/wiki/Fal..._Rise_of_Linux

----------


## mastablasta

> I've seen tons of tutorials, guides etc. but no one for normal people (for 'normal' I mean people who are'n passionate about informatics) that want to turn on a pc and to use it without thinking too much about which engine is moving the car, at least at the beginning.


there are - for exampel Ubutnu manual, online wiki manual and also psychocats guides are simple and to the point.

there is no starter screen like in android where on first start it explains you what is where and how you do things.

----------


## sudodus

> Originally Posted by stilnovo1
> 
> 
> I'm trying to convince my Company to switch to  Lubuntu, but this problem on my laptop (owned by other colleagues in my  company) has put on hold my idea... so in the future it will be  difficult for me to convince the Property to buy a new Linux-powered pc.  My colleagues want to turn on the pc, to use facebook and (sometimes)  to work on it!
> 
> 
> I've been thinking about this - _how to convert to linux in a company or a particular office or site of a company or other organisation_.
> 
> Many old and 'middle-aged' computers, that run Windows XP, Vista or 7  work well with linux without any tweaking or proprietary drivers. Some  computers have hardware, that does not work well with linux, and it  might be possible but time-consuming to make them work properly. I think  you must focus of what works without too much effort, otherwise it will  cost more to convert an old computer than to buy a new one with Windows  or Mac OS.
> ...


This link shows the idea and flow chart of a company selling second-hand computers.

That company's basic price for the recycled computers is without any installed operating system. They install Windows 7 for a fee, so if you want to install linux, you need not pay for Windows.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Had to forego a Linux replacement for XP today because of no printer drivers for a Dell MFP 1600N. Will install 7 in a couple of months.

----------


## stilnovo1

@surfaceunits: this unluckily is one of the problems also for us: a printer for labels that has got new drivers in 7 but not in any Linux distro... I've thought about testing the program with Wine or installing VirtualBox (and then an XP VM), but my colleagues don't like this idea since the say the procedure would become much more complicated than today...sic! In the meanwhile our IT (external) maintenance company has proposed to our Property a special price for Win 7 to convert all the machines... (double sic!). It's hard, but I don't give up!

@sudodus: Sweden and the northern europe Countries are very advanced about recycling electronic devices (and not only recycling!). It's a reasonable argument to buy a second-hand computer, but maybe it's easier to do it for a private than a Company. I should be able to run the OS on existing company's computers, but I see I'm not always lucky with that hardware... The President Roosevelt used to say: Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.... I find this is a wonderful aphorism and it's what I have to do (if I'll be able!!)

@mastablasta: yes, you are right: there are many existing guides, but I've not found anything for real beginners. If we want that a Linux OS was used as a full normal alternative thing than other OSs, I think that we have to create a simpler and more diffused basic culture about this world. This is a constructive criticism: have you seen that in short time Android's devices have become so diffused? The same scheme should be adopted by "Linuxians": then people will naturally extend their knowledge to more complicated arguments, but (and it's also my personal experience) starting from zero I've not found a 'starting point' that can facilitate the introduction to this world, you have to 'googling' too much for all -from basics to those more complicated.

The culture about IT in general is often underestimated: the actual society works with computer machines, but it's easier to capture attention saying an aphorims in latin than showing the possibility to have a working PC with another Operative System! A computer is not (only) an household appliance, but it's often considered at that same level.
In any case, I think that a person has to feel free to "only" turn on a computer without knowing at all what is happening inside it, since I believe that a computer is a tool but not an end (except sometimes for we passionate, of course!!).

----------


## SurfaceUnits

another replacement install on a P4 2.4Ghz Del Dimension

----------


## C.S.Cameron

Inquirer poll shows 9% of XP users will move to Linux:

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...d-of-life-poll

----------


## stilnovo1

A (maybe silly) question: has Lubuntu Team contemplated something special for the 14.04 launching?

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Inquirer poll shows 9% of XP users will move to Linux:
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...d-of-life-poll


It is 10% now, more than those who would move to Windows8 (9%)

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> @surfaceunits: this unluckily is one of the problems also for us: a printer for labels that has got new drivers in 7 but not in any Linux distro... I've thought about testing the program with Wine or installing VirtualBox (and then an XP VM), but my colleagues don't like this idea since the say the procedure would become much more complicated than today...sic! In the meanwhile our IT (external) maintenance company has proposed to our Property a special price for Win 7 to convert all the machines... (double sic!). It's hard, but I don't give up!


At where I worked the (hp) laser printer had xp driver but not Win7 (it worked out of the box with Ubuntu though). Their solution was to keep one old machine on XP just to use the printer. It wasn't necessary for all machines to be able to access the printer, if you want to print something go to the XP machine, otherwsie use the Windows7 ones (all of them basically) You guys may be able to do the same, upgrade one  machine to Win7 just for printing (or just keep XP and cut it off from the internet) Use Linux on the rest.

----------


## stilnovo1

Thanks monkeybrain20122 for the suggest, I'll propose it!

----------


## amjjawad

Hi everyone, 

Maybe you're wondering why Ali is so silent? well, I'm not, I'm so busy  

How? 

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StartUbuntu/...ertCompetition 

37 and 2 more on their way to be converted to Linux. Actually, one has  been converted by having hard time: 
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209918 


And the other is coming - my neighbour is coming now to me to give it to me. 

You see, if I'm silent here, it doesn't mean I'm doing nothing  :Very Happy:  

Now, beat my record if you can  :Capital Razz:   :Capital Razz:   :Capital Razz:  

Thank you! 

P.S. 
These are the installations I do myself. I have no idea how many people  I have converted by the word of mouth and other means.

----------


## daniroma

Hi Folks!

Proudly announce switching from XP to Xubuntu on neighbour PC (AMD Athlon 1800+, 1GB RAM, SiS Graphic adapter, March 13, 2014).
In a place where everyone knows only windows OS and programs, it is hard to make a change.

Still there is a hope when they have to choose to use old hardware or spent money to buy new PC (and new windows license).


I talk to lot of people about the advantage of linux OS, and I believe the situation will change soon in advantage of low-resource distros.

----------


## C.S.Cameron

Here is something from PC World about XP alts based on Ubuntu:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/21076...-a-new-pc.html

----------


## codingman

> I'm not sure that the current version Ubuntu is suitable for all old windows XP machines. Yes it will run, but  very slowly.  P4 and below would be barely useable, even with Lubuntu or Xbuntu which both have a high overhead. A big part of that is  that tabbed browsers use alot of memory. When XP came out there were no tabbed browsers, so people browsed the web more sensibly.
> 
> In my opinion now is the time to start getting rid of the old PC's. Maybe giving them to people in poor countries is an option, but not for anything in the first world.


Answer: w3m or links.

----------


## ibjsb4

Got a new project today, a Acer AspireOne, Single core Atom@1.6, 1G of ram and 120G hdd.

I really like putting xubuntu on everything  :Smile:   Will the Atom processor do the job?

----------


## KBD47

I've got 3 netbooks with those specs. The Atom processor can be a bit slow, but I've found adding some swap memory (about 3 gigs) makes it run a bit quicker. If you can upgrade the ram to 2 gigs that will speed it up a bit also. I've got Xubuntu on one of the netbooks and Debian Wheezy on the other two. They run pretty well.

----------


## ibjsb4

This machine is used only for internet at the local cafe.  User only cares about firefox and chrome.  Maybe xfce?

----------


## KBD47

It's kind of bad timing because Xubuntu LTS has short support cycle left and the new one is not out yet. In your place I would either install Mint Xfce 13 LTS with 3 more years support, though you will have to remove the medibuntu source before updating and will have over 600 updates, or install the newly released MX-14:
http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=08356
  I would probably go with the latter. Both options use Xfce. I won't consider anything but LTS releases or Debian Stable for other users, would rather not become their full time tech support person  :Smile:

----------


## ibjsb4

Xubuntu LTS is supported for three years and has another year to go; right?

----------


## Elfy

> Xubuntu LTS is supported for three years and has another year to go; right?


Yes  :Smile:

----------


## philinux

> Xubuntu LTS is supported for three years and has another year to go; right?


Xubuntu 14.04 due out 17th April.

----------


## ibjsb4

Hay Elfy .. what brought you out of the woods  :Smile:

----------


## KBD47

Yes, Xubuntu has 1 more year support.
Mint Xfce 13 has 3 years.
MX-14 over 2 years.
Linux Lite 3 years?
LXLE (Lubuntu based) 3 years.
  Those are the lighter OS's I'm familiar with.

----------


## CharlesA

> Got a new project today, a Acer AspireOne, Single core Atom@1.6, 1G of ram and 120G hdd.
> 
> I really like putting xubuntu on everything   Will the Atom processor do the job?


I run Fedora 20 on one with similar specs. Runs fine.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Xubuntu 13.10 on DellDimension 2400 P4 2.2GHz 768 MB GeForce 6200

----------


## Tar_Ni

> Got a new project today, a Acer AspireOne, Single core Atom@1.6, 1G of ram and 120G hdd.
> 
> I really like putting xubuntu on everything   Will the Atom processor do the job?


Lubuntu would be faster on that type of hardwares. Your laptop will have even more breath for multitasking. It's a pretty OS for low-end laptop and older computers.

I installed Lubuntu 13.10 on a Intel Pentium 4 1.8 ghz, 1 GB RAM and 80gig Hard Drive and it's lightning fast, really. The PC boot in about 20 seconds and shut in less than 10. 

Lubuntu 14.04 LTS is coming up April 17th.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

My happiness is huge to the point that I can't have it all, must share it  :Very Happy: 

I have successfully convinced 40 people in Real Life to migrate to GNU/Linux  :Very Happy: 
40 Machines are happily running/breathing Lubuntu, Xubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME  :Very Happy: 
And, more to come ...

My Record. 

Thank you!

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Hi,
> 
> My happiness is huge to the point that I can't have it all, must share it 
> 
> I have successfully convinced 40 people in Real Life to migrate to GNU/Linux 
> 40 Machines are happily running/breathing Lubuntu, Xubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME 
> And, more to come ...
> 
> My Record. 
> ...


I can't bear to see that there are still people coming to this forum asking for advice to set up dual boot with XP, maybe you can perform your art of persuasion here when you are not too busy setting up Lubuntu physically  :Smile:

----------


## WogBoy

Windows refugee here, I had Xp installed but as support is finished and my desktop is a 2x Intel core 2 CPU 6320@ 1.86 ghz and 1 GB ram I played around with linux once or twice, Mint 13,  Unbuntu And Zorin one day I was looking at some youtube video and saw a clip called puppy linux, Seemed ok to me so I looked into it as it was only a 200 mb download I gave it a go, I loved it so much I installed it to HDD getting rid of XP for ever,  I now use it daily on my desktop to surf the net and email as it boots fast.

Then I got a laptop.
*Hp Pavilion G6, AMD A4-3305M With Radeon HD Graphics 1.90 Ghz 4Gb Ram*.

And decided to try Unbuntu 12 lts on it then Zorin lts, Both were cool, But being the type that loves eyecandy I wanted to "tweak" both the distros ( oh yes they were installed to a 32 GB USB each and I could boot my laptop from USB ( hey this is great for a point and click Windows user) Anyway, While trying to "tweak" the settings I found Kubuntu, Oh yeah, I installed it to 32 GB usb and played with it for about 3 months ( breaking it everyother day and reinstalling it) Then I found Virtual Machine. So I pulled the Hard Drive out of my new laptop and put a old 120 GB one in ( storing my 500GB with windows on it in a safe place), Next I installed puppy linux on the laptop then Virtual Machine then Kubuntu on VM, I still broke Kubuntu but now no more Installs  ( thank you snapshots) I finally figured out how to "tweak" the settings and eyecandy the way I wanted, Messed with DK's IP Tables that kinda thing,  you get the idea? 
I was so happy with the end result I got a new 500GB 2.5 inch Hitachi HDD put it in the laptop and installed Kubuntu and set it up the way I wanted installed heaps of games apps wallpapers etc. I am now Windows free, I have 2 Pc's both Linux.

Now to my point... I think.
None of this was easy, But, It wasnt that hard, I read a lot of stuff on forums including this 1, Googled a lot, And wait for it, Youtubed a lot of stuff,  Yes I went to Youtube and searched Tweak Unbuntu ( love Nixie Pixel ) seeing the stuff done made it easier, Plus looking at Nixie wasnt that bad too...LOL. I love Linux, I now hate Windows and all the expense malware and stuff that comes along with being a Windowsite.
If I can do it so can YOU forget about XP download a Linux distro and try it as a live first then install it to USB and boot from that for a bit, You will be like me, You will DELETE Windows for ever.
Join a forum like this read a lot google youtube, Ask questions.

Remember There are no stupid questions only stupid mistakes.


@ People answering Novices questions.
When answering a question be as specific as you can do not assume that a user knows what put it in */usr/src. means.
or
*
*cd* to the directory or type *sh ./configure* ...*type where?

Remember we are Novices 

Thanks*

----------


## sudodus

Welcome to the Ubuntu Forums _WogBoy_  :Smile: 

and thanks for sharing your experience  :KDE Star:

----------


## Ashrael

Well, you might be less safe on XP, but at least you can use usb-wifi.... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...569&p=12979964.

----------


## amjjawad

> I can't bear to see that there are still people coming to this forum asking for advice to set up dual boot with XP, maybe you can perform your art of persuasion here when you are not too busy setting up Lubuntu physically


Hi and thank for posting  :Smile: 

If after all what has been written everywhere on the Internet about Windows XP reached its EOL and there are some people who are insisting to use it and ignoring each and every advice, I must say that we should not really waste time to convince them. The answer is simple: because they do know for sure it is not right to use an outdated version of Microsoft Windows XP but they care less, that is why they're insisting to use Windows XP. They don't care whether this is harmful or not.

If they're doing that because they're not aware of the downside of this action, it means those people never ever 'read' anything  :Very Happy:  for the last 6 months or more, almost every day, I see tons of articles about Windows XP reaching its EOL. Unless someone is living without Internet, everyone must be aware by now.

Those who refuse to listen were not the target of this project from the first day of StartUbuntu. We would rather put our time and efforts with those who might listen than those who refuse to listen.

I used to spend tons of time here and give a high quality support:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1812877

Sadly, my so many projects and roles are pushing me away from doing this  :Sad: 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad#Summary_of_my_Roles

Who knows? maybe if I retire from all these roles, I might be back here to provide support  :Very Happy: 

But really, Dual-Booting Windows XP and any other system?
I'd highly recommend that we should be extra clear to any user asking for help about a solid fact: Windows XP is dead.
We should remind them of this fact before anything else.

I don't know whether it is good idea to help them or not? I mean to guide them through how to dual boot with Windows XP. I guess this is wrong. But that is just me  :Smile:

----------


## leithanne2

I'm 64, female, educated and retired. I am your target group.

Girls read directions.
Retired folks have the time to learn new stuff.
My  generation fixed stuff, instead of buying new. I ran to the corner tube  tester shop, in the 50's, so my Daddy could tell which tv tube was bad.

I've  been dabbling with Linux for a long time. Mostly on really bad hardware. Had a Compaq 2100 as a kitchen  computer til the keyboard crapped out. But it was a toy to play with,  and I never got much past sudo apt-get.

Until Micro$oft pulled  the plug on my beloved Dimension 2350. I just couldn't let it go.  Lubuntu runs better on it than XP ever did, and, with all the free time I  have, I'm gonna really learn linux. And spread the word.

I'm working on 3 XP friends.

Friend #1 is an adorable old codger who thinks he's smarter than hackers, and can run XP, safely. Not much hope there. Wish I could let him see how much better Lubuntu runs on crappy old hardware, but we're on different coasts.

Friend #2 doesn't understand the danger, is too busy... I'll get him, yet.

Friend #3 said "XP in my opinion was the best..I hated to see that one go..Right now I'm using Google Chrome..and so far, it is pretty good." She's the one that I really worry about.

So what do I tell these folks? #1 and #2 are perfectly capable of upgrading to Lubuntu. Just praying for #3

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Well, you might be less safe on XP, but at least you can use usb-wifi.... http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...569&p=12979964.


You must have extraordinary bad luck or it may be your shopping habits.. I have used a few usb wifi cards in the past on different machines and except for one all worked out of the box. the one exception worked as well after editing some config files and doesn't require that any more for newer kernels. I didn't do any particular research, I just picked the cheapest ones (if they didn't work I could exchange within a week)

----------


## CharlesA

> You must have extraordinary bad luck or it may be your shopping habits.. I have used a few usb wifi cards in the past on different machines and except for one all worked out of the box. the one exception worked as well after editing some config files and doesn't require that any more for newer kernels. I didn't do any particular research, I just picked the cheapest ones (if they didn't work I could exchange within a week)


That's been my experience as far as USB wifi goes, but I also try to stick to Alfa's.

----------


## sudodus

> I'm 64, female, educated and retired. I am your target group.
> 
> Girls read directions.
> Retired folks have the time to learn new stuff.
> My  generation fixed stuff, instead of buying new. I ran to the corner tube  tester shop, in the 50's, so my Daddy could tell which tv tube was bad.
> 
> I've  been dabbling with Linux for a long time. Mostly on really bad hardware. Had a Compaq 2100 as a kitchen  computer til the keyboard crapped out. But it was a toy to play with,  and I never got much past sudo apt-get.
> 
> Until Micro$oft pulled  the plug on my beloved Dimension 2350. I just couldn't let it go.  Lubuntu runs better on it than XP ever did, and, with all the free time I  have, I'm gonna really learn linux. And spread the word.


Welcome  :Smile: 

Ask for help when you need it!
Help other people at the Ubuntu forums when you have the time and knowledge.



> I'm working on 3 XP friends.
> 
> Friend #1 is an adorable old codger who thinks he's smarter than hackers, and can run XP, safely. Not much hope there. Wish I could let him see how much better Lubuntu runs on crappy old hardware, but we're on different coasts.
> 
> Friend #2 doesn't understand the danger, is too busy... I'll get him, yet.
> 
> Friend #3 said "XP in my opinion was the best..I hated to see that one go..Right now I'm using Google Chrome..and so far, it is pretty good." She's the one that I really worry about.
> 
> So what do I tell these folks? #1 and #2 are perfectly capable of upgrading to Lubuntu. Just praying for #3


Sometimes it is most difficult to convince old friends.

One thing that might impress on them is to install a full Lubuntu system into a fast USB pendrive (I would suggest a USB 3 pendrive according to this link to USB 2 and USB 3 speed tests for installers) and run your own complete personalized environment on their computer just like that.

----------


## daniroma

Hello again!

Another  switching from XP to Kubuntu 13.10 on neighbour PC (Intel Core2Duo, 2GB RAM, April 09 , 2014).

First testing the OS with USB live disk. He like it very much.

More to come?
I hope this...

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Another XP replacement using Xubuntu 14.04 on a Dell Inspiron 546 with AMD 7550 and 2GB
Guy got his AT&T 4G card today and 14.04 runs it out of the box.
They bought a HP AIO printer with the money saved

----------


## John_Maloon

Can you point me in the direction to get the pinned desktop items and how to do that? I am very new to this, and have converted an old dell demension to xubuntu.

thank you, John

----------


## SurfaceUnits

https://www.google.com/search?client...utf-8&oe=utf-8

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

It is really hard to steal some time to write something nowadays, specially it is the final week in Trusty Tahr Cycle and the very first LTS version for Ubuntu GNOME.

Anyway, I thought I have to write this  :Wink: 

Part1: Things you will miss when you will start using GNU/Linux

Happy Reading  :Smile:

----------


## KingLeonidas

It's a good project, but it will be hard. People use Windows since ever, I am not seeing my Pap using Ubuntu, it is very hard for most of people as the linux is for "hackers" concept remain very strong aroung.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> It's a good project, but it will be hard. People use Windows since ever, I am not seeing my Pap using Ubuntu, it is very hard for most of people as the linux is for "hackers" concept remain very strong aroung.


Actually quite the opposite. The completely clueless users wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you set it up for them.  :Smile: 

I don't know how clueless your pap is or whether that was implied as people often use their parents as stereotypes for computer illiteracy, that is kind of wrong and offensive to parents. But now disclaimer out of the way, here we go.  :Smile:  I bet my dad wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I switch out his Windows 7 for kubuntu and use wine for some of his xp era stuffs. The only  problem is that he will miss his aquarium screen saver, which unfortunately doesn't work in wine and even if it does, wouldn't function like a screensaver. I have yet to find a screensaver for Linux that provides a 3d realistic aquarium for folks like my dad.  :Sad:

----------


## Bill Tetzeli

> Can you point me in the direction to get the pinned desktop items and how to do that? I am very new to this, and have converted an old dell demension to xubuntu.
> 
> thank you, John


Pinning is slightly inconvenient in Xubuntu, but only slightly.  Just go to the start menu, click and hold down on the icon for the program you want to pin, then drag it down to the bottom panel (the launching dock).  In my experience you actually have to drag it down twice, sort of a double swoop, but once you see a vertical red line appear in the bottom panel you can release the mouse button and the program will be pinned there.  It will only pin on the extreme right or left of the menu at first, but you can right-click on the launcher icon, select "Move" from the context menu and then reposition it wherever you want.

----------


## riverguy99

I hear over and over about how you shouldn't even bother to try running Ubuntu on "old machines."  Please define "old machine."  I have three Dell D620s in our office that we use docked to desktop displays, one with dual displays, all running Ubuntu 12.04 and doing it very well.  We do lots of photo work in GIMP and in Website software with often half a dozen apps running at the same time and they all handle it beautifully.  These were used when we bought them as refurbs from Dell 7 years ago.  You can buy a refurb any time on eBay to $125.  We use laptops because here in the Sonoma County Redwoods we have frequent power interruptions and laptops have their own built-in Uninterruptable Power Supplies.  Plus they're cheap.

Are they as "fast" as a brand new $1000 machine?  No.  But for my money, I can easily wait the extra 3 seconds for a complex screen redraw.  I have a ten-year-old Toshiba laptop, remember those antiques with the big, square display?  My grandkids use it for hours on end on Youtube, email, and Internet video games and ever since I switched it from XP to Ubuntu, I have not had to spend any more time removing the malware that they kept accumulating.

Please don't let anyone talk you into the idea that you need a new computer to run Linux.  I haven't found one old enough to qualify as "too old for Linux."

----------


## SurfaceUnits

> Actually quite the opposite. The completely clueless users wouldn't be able to tell the difference if you set it up for them. 
> 
> I don't know how clueless your pap is or whether that was implied as people often use their parents as stereotypes for computer illiteracy, that is kind of wrong and offensive to parents. But now disclaimer out of the way, here we go.  I bet my dad wouldn't be able to tell the difference if I switch out his Windows 7 for kubuntu and use wine for some of his xp era stuffs. The only  problem is that he will miss his aquarium screen saver, which unfortunately doesn't work in wine and even if it does, wouldn't function like a screensaver. I have yet to find a screensaver for Linux that provides a 3d realistic aquarium for folks like my dad.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8W9s5DjW6J4

or put a webframe gadget on his desktop and load this   http://www.aquariumofpacific.org/exh..._tropical_reef

----------


## riverguy99

You're 64?  Just a kid, eh?  I'm 77 and just finished converting our five office and home computers (and the one my grendkids use) over to Ubuntu 12.04. Good old XP has served me (and many millions of other individuals and busineses) well, but when Mr. Gates finally could no longer allow us the freedom of not downgrading to something else, that did it.  I'm working on several friends to convert and have had some of them do some work on one of my laptops just to see how difficult it would be to make the switch.  None so far as been able to tell the difference except for the launcher strip on the left side of the screen.  One, who does a lot of writing, was hard pressed to tell the difference between WORD and Libre Writer, except that he loved the idea that Libre would open any file you toss at it, unlike MS WORD, where you have to have the right "upgraded" version. We do publishing, camera-read copy for the printers, and lots of photo and graphics work, and so far we have had no problems with any of it.  I have had a shut-down issue with one of our installs, but that will be resolved soon.  Go for it!

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Kingsoft Office is more compatible with MS Office than Libre

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Kingsoft Office is more compatible with MS Office than Libre


Or not use MS Office formats. There is no way to be 100% compatible with MSO formats because they are designed to be incompatible with everything else, even older versions of MSO in order to undermine competitions and force people to upgrade. The only sure fire way to solve the compatibility problem is to stop using these formats. It may not be feasible for all people, but a surprising number of home users have no real need for these formats, they get themselves locked into them  because 'everyone uses MS office' and 'everyone' means they and their friends. 

Since Kingsoft doesn't even support other formats than MS's this is a total show stopper. It just encourages the addiction to MS formats, and what if MS changes its formats again? This is a distinct possibility. Unless KingSoft is using MS codes (legally by agreeing to MS's terms or illegally by stealing, we have no way to know as it is closed source) how can it guarantee continued compatibility as reversed engineering is always hit and miss?  So will it go out of business if it is no longer compatible as compatibility with MS is its only selling point?  So I won't recommend it.

----------


## sudodus

> I hear over and over about how you shouldn't even bother to try running Ubuntu on "old machines."  Please define "old machine."  I have three Dell D620s in our office that we use docked to desktop displays, one with dual displays, all running Ubuntu 12.04 and doing it very well.  We do lots of photo work in GIMP and in Website software with often half a dozen apps running at the same time and they all handle it beautifully.  These were used when we bought them as refurbs from Dell 7 years ago.  You can buy a refurb any time on eBay to $125.  We use laptops because here in the Sonoma County Redwoods we have frequent power interruptions and laptops have their own built-in Uninterruptable Power Supplies.  Plus they're cheap.
> 
> Are they as "fast" as a brand new $1000 machine?  No.  But for my money, I can easily wait the extra 3 seconds for a complex screen redraw.  I have a ten-year-old Toshiba laptop, remember those antiques with the big, square display?  My grandkids use it for hours on end on Youtube, email, and Internet video games and ever since I switched it from XP to Ubuntu, I have not had to spend any more time removing the malware that they kept accumulating.
> 
> Please don't let anyone talk you into the idea that you need a new computer to run Linux.  I haven't found one old enough to qualify as "too old for Linux."


I agree, that Ubuntu can work on old or weak machines. Xubuntu has a lighter desktop and can run on older or weaker machines. Lubuntu has an ultra light desktop and can run on even older or weaker machines. I think the amount of RAM is crucial. I want 2 GB for Ubuntu, 1 GB for Xubuntu and 512 MB RAM for Lubuntu. But of course the processor makes a difference too, as well as the graphics hardware.

See the advice about the limit, where is it getting hard to use the hardware in this link

Old hardware brought back to life

----------


## monkeybrain20122

Well not all old machines are the same, some were top of the line in their days and some were crappy even when they came out. And it also depends on definition. For gamers with money to burn a 3 years old machine would be 'old' and a 4-5 years old machine is ancient, for normal people may be that means 7-8 years and for people in the old hardware thread you probably need to have something 10+ years old to even be allowed to post there.  :Smile:

----------


## sudodus

Citing post #2 of Old hardware brought back to life




> Don’t take for granted that there is a solution and don't give the  person asking a false hope. Not every old computer can be brought into  usable condition, so _sorry, you have to recycle this dinosaur_ might be the only sensible answer. If you never post this regardless of the hardware in question you are probably too lenient.


I suggest the following rule of thumb: 10 years is the limit age for making a computer really useful for everyday desktop tasks including normal web browsing. And yes, there are exceptions to every rule  :Wink:

----------


## SurfaceUnits

> Or not use MS Office formats. There is no way to be 100% compatible with MSO formats because they are designed to be incompatible with everything else, even older versions of MSO in order to undermine competitions and force people to upgrade. The only sure fire way to solve the compatibility problem is to stop using these formats. It may not be feasible for all people, but a surprising number of home users have no real need for these formats, they get themselves locked into them  because 'everyone uses MS office' and 'everyone' means they and their friends. 
> 
> Since Kingsoft doesn't even support other formats than MS's this is a total show stopper. It just encourages the addiction to MS formats, and what if MS changes its formats again? This is a distinct possibility. Unless KingSoft is using MS codes (legally by agreeing to MS's terms or illegally by stealing, we have no way to know as it is closed source) how can it guarantee continued compatibility as reversed engineering is always hit and miss?  So will it go out of business if it is_Mobile broadband_ is the marketing term for wireless Internet access through a portable modem, mobile phone, USB wireless modem, no longer compatible as compatibility with MS is its only selling point?  So I won't recommend it.



Well, when one has to read a highly formatted Word document on a nixbox, KingSoft is the only solution that come close. May be one could get a SkyDrive account and read it that way.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Well, when one has to read a highly formatted Word document on a nixbox, KingSoft is the only solution that come close. May be one could get a SkyDrive account and read it that way.


Well most people wouldn't need to read highlty formatted word documents. That is even for people who use Word a lot for publishing in academic journals, I know that because I work with such people. LO is completely adequate for what they do, but there is an inertia because faculties get MSO practically free (of course the Uni pays MS out of another stash) If they have to pay out of their own pockets I think there will be a lot more conversions.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

I just opened a flyer I use for business in LO 4.2.3.3 and it looks like ****. In KSO it needed a bit tweaking but is usable.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

Just did another XP replacement on an old Compaq. Just needed an nVidia 6200 board and Xubuntu with KingSoft Office.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> I just opened a flyer I use for business in LO 4.2.3.3 and it looks like ****. In KSO it needed a bit tweaking but is usable.


So you made the flyer yourself? Since it is for your business you have a choice for its format and the tool you create it with. Why did you make in MSO? Also I suppose a flyer should not change so why not make it in odf and export to pdf?

----------


## stilnovo1

Hi to Everybody!

I'm frequently using at home Lubuntu 13.10 from the last november, installed on a 1999 computer (so, from the last century!!) with 676mb ram, a Pentium 4 (Willamette, 1,6ghz) and a nvidia riva tnt2 graphic card.... the computer has come to me as 'potential trash' from a customer of mine, it had Windows XP (and previously Win 98) and with this configuration it was unusable: now I can even see Youtube video (not in full screen, obviously) and I'm quite proud of this installation... With XP it was impossible to use it for web surfing or even to run something else than Wordpad! Now Libreoffice runs quite well... From that experience I've then installed Lubuntu also on other, more recent machines: for me actually is the best OS since it doesn't change too much the way to work and it allows a gradual approach to Linux...

----------


## eric13

> Lubuntu 13.10 installed on a 1999 computer with 676mb ram, a Pentium 4 and a nvidia riva tnt2 graphic card


just wondering: are you using the default "nouveau" driver? Works fine withs TNT2? If yes, lucky you! And a pity that the TNT2 is better than a Geforce2 to 4 whose display is broken on Lubuntu 13.10 ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2168979 which refer to the bug with Nouveau drivers: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51477 )

----------


## John_Maloon

> https://www.google.com/search?client...utf-8&oe=utf-8


Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks

----------


## C.S.Cameron

14.04 is almost here and the French police will be converting 70000 computers to it from XP.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...xp-alternative

----------


## sudodus

> 14.04 is almost here and the French police will be converting 70000 computers to it from XP.
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...xp-alternative


Interesting  :Smile: 

I wonder about the hardware specs of those computers, how many of them that actually will run well with standard Ubuntu. Or if it will be some tailor-made Ubuntu.

----------


## vasa1

> Just did another XP replacement on an old Compaq. Just needed an nVidia 6200 board and Xubuntu with KingSoft Office.


Looks like KSO is getting pushed  :Smile:

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> Looks like KSO is getting pushed


I question the wisdom of trapping people in MicroSoft formats. Many people (especially home users) don't have to use these but KSO doesn't even support open formats, it just encourages the addiction and dependency to .docx and .xlsx and further entrenches them. Moreover, how do they guarantee this high level of compatibility in the future unless they use MS codes?

I converted a few old computers and never installed KSO, no one has ever complained about LO.

----------


## sudodus

A friend of mine told me today, that he is very impressed by the newest version of Libre Office  :Wink:

----------


## KBD47

I agree with you, and I like LibreOffice, but I think if Kingsoft helps to wean them off of MS even if with baby steps, let's do whatever it takes. Eventually they will get more comfortable and explore Linux alternative apps.

----------


## monkeybrain20122

> I agree with you, and I like LibreOffice, but I think if Kingsoft helps to wean them off of MS even if with baby steps, let's do whatever it takes. Eventually they will get more comfortable and explore Linux alternative apps.


But it doesn't help to wean them off MS, actually exactly the opposite. KSO supports *only* MS formats and apparently does it uncannily well based on fans' testimonies(does it steal codes from MS, is it MS's partner/front? Nobody knows as it is closed. There are rumours and speculations on the Chinese blogs). There is no way and no incentive to switch to other formats with KSO.

----------


## KBD47

Keep in mind many of these people, most of these people, already have a catalog of Doc files or Docx files, and the minute they see LO wants to save in odt they will be wary. And I continue to have issues in LO with docx and formatting issues. Kingsoft doesn't seem to have as many issues. If LO handled everything perfectly that would be great, in some cases it's still not there yet. Like I said, I'm a LO fan, but I'm not against making things as easy as possible for people to move from Windows  :Smile:

----------


## vasa1

> I question the wisdom of trapping people in MicroSoft formats. Many people (especially home users) don't have to use these but KSO doesn't even support open formats, it just encourages the addiction and dependency to .docx and .xlsx and further entrenches them. Moreover, how do they guarantee this high level of compatibility in the future unless they use MS codes?
> ...


This is the point people seem to be missing. There's really (IMO) no need for most of the formatting unique to proprietary software: 100%-compatibility with proprietary software is entrapment. People should understand that most of the formatting one yearns for is unnecessary (which is not bad per se) and also prevents communicating with people using other form factors which don't have the "muscle" to carry proprietary software.

To that extent, KSO and even LibreOffice are slowing down the acceptance of the pure open document format by trying to be compatible with whatever proprietary software makers dream of.

----------


## KBD47

I agree KSO should support odt format. I wish someone who had influence with them would push them to do so. 
  Getting back on topic--I see the Lubuntu download page has the new 14.04 listed, but not active links yet. Should be ready soon  :Smile:

----------


## C.S.Cameron

> I agree KSO should support odt format. I wish someone who had influence with them would push them to do so. 
>   Getting back on topic--I see the Lubuntu download page has the new 14.04 listed, but not active links yet. Should be ready soon


I downloaded both 32 and 64 bit Ubuntu yesterday.

----------


## KBD47

Lubuntu 14.04 has a bug with the nm-applet not showing up. 
Xubuntu 14.04 was excellent for me, no problems installing it. 
Same for main Ubuntu 14.04, worked great, and it might just be me, but Ubuntu seems lighter and faster and running cooler on my netbook than before. I wonder if they are making it a bit lighter for the phone stuff?

----------


## sudodus

> Lubuntu 14.04 has a bug with the nm-applet not showing up. 
> Xubuntu 14.04 was excellent for me, no problems installing it. 
> Same for main Ubuntu 14.04, worked great, and it might just be me, but Ubuntu seems lighter and faster and running cooler on my netbook than before. I wonder if they are making it a bit lighter for the phone stuff?


Do you still have all those flavours installed? In that case it would be nice with some comparison of CPU and RAM usage, and maybe time from cold boot to a usable desktop. I'm really glad to read that standard Ubuntu is getting lighter  :Smile:

----------


## KBD47

I didn't install Lubuntu because I thought it was missing my firmware, but found out later yesterday that Lubuntu had a nm-applet problem.
I installed Xubuntu on my wife's netbook and it works like a charm. I installed Ubuntu on my netbook and it is working surprisingly good. I'm going to check it out later today and see how it is doing. I have 2 gigs of ram on that machine, will take a closer look later.

----------


## KBD47

Here it is with Ubuntu 14.04 Unity

System:    Host: karlton-Aspire-one Kernel: 3.13.0-24-generic i686 (32 bit) Desktop: Gnome Distro: Ubuntu 14.04 trusty
Machine:   Mobo: Acer model: Aspire one version: V1.03 Bios: Acer version: V1.03 date: 04/13/2009
CPU:       Single core Intel Atom CPU N270 (-HT-) cache: 512 KB flags: (nx pae sse sse2 sse3 ssse3) 
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1066.00 MHz 2: 1333.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Mobile 945GSE Express Integrated Graphics Controller 
           X.Org: 1.15.1 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa) Resolution: 1024x600@60.0hz 
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel 945GME x86/MMX/SSE2 GLX Version: 1.4 Mesa 10.1.0
Audio:     Card: Intel NM10/ICH7 Family High Definition Audio Controller driver: snd_hda_intel 
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture ver: k3.13.0-24-generic
Network:   Card-1: Qualcomm Atheros AR242x / AR542x Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) driver: ath5k 
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:24:2c:39:9e:20
           Card-2: Qualcomm Atheros AR8132 Fast Ethernet driver: atl1c 
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: 00:23:5a:9a:24:5b
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 160.0GB (3.8% used) 1: id: /dev/sda model: Hitachi_HTS54321 size: 160.0GB 
Partition: ID: / size: 62G used: 5.7G (10%) fs: ext4 ID: swap-1 size: 3.16GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap 
RAID:      No RAID devices detected - /proc/mdstat and md_mod kernel raid module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 26.8C mobo: N/A 
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A 
Info:      Processes: 167 Uptime: 2 min Memory: 349.4/2006.4MB Client: Shell (bash) inxi: 1.9.17 

3 tabs open, including Google Music, Google News, Yahoo News.http://imgur.com/DuPvqtA

acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +26.8°C  (crit = +100.0°C)


coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +46.0°C  (crit = +90.0°C)

I'll see what it looks like using Debian Wheezy as that's the other distro on this machine.

----------


## KBD47

Same computer, same tabs open with one tab streaming music just like with Ubuntu.
Debian 7 Wheezy Gnome desktop.
http://imgur.com/cP2hzkg

Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +26.8°C  (crit = +100.0°C)


coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +49.0°C  (crit = +90.0°C)

I would say the difference is negligible. 642 Ram use for Ubuntu Unity. 400 Ram use for Debian Wheezy Gnome. The CPU use was very close. Again, that was streaming music with 3 Chrome tabs open. I would say both these OS's feel good, fast and lightweight. Lubuntu or Xubuntu would be even faster.

Edit: OK I installed Xubuntu on the same model computer, except this one only had 1 gig instead of 2 gigs ram:
http://imgur.com/Imsc4lz

Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +26.8°C  (crit = +100.0°C)


coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +41.0°C  (crit = +90.0°C)


  They all run great, ram use is very close between Xubuntu and Debian Wheezy. Temp was improved on Xubuntu.

Edit2: Lubuntu is pretty much the same outcome as Xubuntu:
http://imgur.com/dnkfhk8

Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +26.8°C  (crit = +100.0°C)


coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:       +45.0°C  (crit = +90.0°C)

----------


## sudodus

So the core runs 3 degrees cooler with Ubuntu.

----------


## KBD47

> So the core runs 3 degrees cooler with Ubuntu.


Yes, I wonder if the newer kernel in Ubuntu helps. Wheezy is using the 3.2 kernel.

----------


## eric13

you could try a backported kernel in debian, e.g. 3.13 here: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy-b...-0.bpo.1-amd64

----------


## KBD47

Good idea. It's just a few degrees, but if it gets intolerably hot I may do that.

----------


## makitso

At our computer club meeting yesterday one of the guys brought in 5 old corporate laptops with WINXP on them.  We played around with installing different Ubuntu variants to see how they would work (Ubuntu, Ubuntu gnome, xubuntu, lubuntu, mint, and Zoirn).  Two laptops gave us problems as detailed below:

Dell inspirion Ubuntu 14.04 and no wireless notes from one of the guys email:

I'm giving up on any "straight" L/X/Ubuntu version on this Dell Inspiron 6400 laptop. When I got home and fired it up I had no Ethernet connection. I thought something we tried by removing/installing things may have screwed something up so I wiped it and did a clean install using 14.04 (this time using 64-bit hoping it might make a difference). In live mode and during the install I had Ethernet and it was accessing the 'net to install updates. Upon rebooting, I had no network (wired or wireless). Argh! I did some Googling to find this was not that uncommon for this laptop and the Broadcom hardware. I tried a few things I found, but there was still no joy.

I have been screwing around for a few hours trying 14.04 both 32 and 64 and 13.10. All had the same problem. I had it working with Zorin, but after talking with Rob today about some stuff he's read I don't think that's the best choice. So, I decided to try Mint (13.10 base). After rebooting, I had wired networking like I did with Zorin yesterday. I applied the same fix I found yesterday (the same one we tried today that didn't cooperate in 14.04) and it worked.

This is the thread I found yesterday:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...141076&page=2&

All I had to do to get wireless working was
sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter firmware-b43-installer
and reboot.

Mint is based on Ubuntu 13.10.

With Linux's track record for handling about any hardware you throw at it, it strikes me as really odd that this problem persists on hardware that has been around for so long. With all of the discussions (and fixes) documented in the forums, you would think it would have been fixed long ago. Oh well, at least it's working on what is reported to be the 4th most popular OS behind Windows, Mac and Ubuntu.

--------------

Acer Aspire 3680 and lubuntu 14.04, 2gs Ram.

Using live cd, at prompt to either install or try, took install option.  Then, checked the box to download while installing. Expected the wireless prompt but it just hung at this point.  Second time, went the "try it" process and then the install and proceeded as expected. However, upon the reboot after the install, the system was messed up, screen was half sized, wired mouse erratic etc.  Started over with Ubuntu gnome and everything went fine and have a nice running system.

----------


## stilnovo1

> just wondering: are you using the default "nouveau" driver? Works fine withs TNT2? If yes, lucky you! And a pity that the TNT2 is better than a Geforce2 to 4 whose display is broken on Lubuntu 13.10 ( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2168979 which refer to the bug with Nouveau drivers: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=51477 )


Hi! Excuse me for my late reply.

Well, this has been my very first installation, when I approached Linux' world on the last september... infact, the first trial I did has even been with Kubuntu 12.04!! I rapidly learnt what 'vesa' meant, the graphic was horrible... Then, I tried with Xubuntu 12.04, same problem, black screen or vesa (low screen resolution etc.).
Finally, I tried with Lubuntu 13.10. After a quite problematic installation, Nouveau started! Right screen resolution, right colour depth etc. 
Curiously, Nouveau started after two actions:

- I phisically inverted the ram modules inside laptop's case

- I solved a problem with the installed wi-fi card (Marvell 8335) using ndiswrapper

After having done those things, Nouveau spontaneously started...


After this old computer, I installed Lubuntu 13.10 on another old pc (2004) we have at work, that was still running Windows 2000.
Also there I found a Nvidia Riva TNT2, but no wifi card since it is connected to a phisical ethernet cable.
The installation has worked fine from the beginning.

I'm using the latest available kernels (3.11.0-19-generic) for Lubuntu 13.10.

Rightly now I'm using that pc.

Then I tried with an Amilo L7320, but this is another story... (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2207391)

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

Me and my rusty memory ... I forgot to share this  :Smile: 

http://amjjawad.blogspot.com/2014/01...onvert-my.html

No, I'm not yet done ... more on the way  :Wink:

----------


## r_avital

There are hundres of millions of cash registers and other point-of-sale systems in the world, that run WinXP.  There are hospitals and clinics where doctors and nurses walk around with tablet-PCs recording data, then plug them into docks at various workstations.  Then there's tire shops, body shops, and other technical, mechanical, manufacturing environments where WinXP is used in customized worksations.  Audiologists use XP machines to adjust audio levels on their patients' hearing aids.  And that only begins to scratch the surface of how deep WinXP has penetrated workplaces and businesses.   That's what happens when a system has been stable for over a decade, and users will resist change, even at the risk of being left without periodic security patches.

Think that population is going to put up with the instabilities of all flavors of Ubuntu (which I happen to love despite it all)?  No, they need turnkey systems.  Drop it in, turn it on, and it better have a minimal learning curve, and be rock solid.  I'll wager the business owner, IT admin at a hospital, or any other business environment where dependability and reliability are critical, would sooner look at something like RedHat.

----------


## poet1

Edit: Sorry, I don't have time to read all previous posts. That's why this replies to the OP.




> Hi,
> 
> StartUbuntu Project is a Project for ALL Ubuntu Communities (Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu, Kubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Ubuntu Studio, Edubuntu, Mythubuntu and UbuntuKylin) and the one and only aim is to introduce the best choice for Windows XP Users and make their migration to Linux as smooth and easy as possible. It is a Community Project that IMHO, everyone should be part of this and spread the word, just as we used to do. After all, as a Linux User, you may want to give back something for Linux.


Thanks for posting this, too.




> What could be better than this?


Honestly, I have my concerns and I have my ideas for making Ubuntu and specific software better. Principally speaking. I get that gut-feeling that things could improve. I mean, honestly, how good is it now? It is REALLY good. 

And thank you to everyone behind Ubuntu for making it what it is. Cannot go without thanks!

But my own ideas demand a different thread or post. I won't expand here unless appropriate to do so.  :Smile:  Save you the attention, space, and time. Haha.




> Windows XP EOL will be April, 2014. There is no much time left. There are some users who have joined already (as this is not a recent project) and they are contributing already but the more, the better. Each user of any Ubuntu Flavour needs to promote for his best flavour and invite his Windows XP Friends to have a look at Linux and that Linux is Ubuntu or any official Flavour and we do know for a fact that Ubuntu and its official flavours are simply the best


I think promoting goes hand in hand with respect. Duh!  :Capital Razz:  And, I'm not saying you or anyone else does not do it with respect. I'm just thinking around here, how I can personally go ahead with spreading the word. I'd rather hand my friends and family the ideas, concepts, and know-how, and let them make their own decision regarding Linux.

Again, though -- this comes back to how Ubuntu and specific software can improve. And yes, this also means I back Ubuntu -- because I care enough to voice improvements, like other people do.




> Thank you!


Thank you! Will have to check the site out.

*poet1*

----------


## LastDino

The thing to look out for is this: In older PC's its not actually the processors (Of course, assuming they are around P4 range) but the RAM. I would advise getting upgrade in RAM if possible, it costs almost nothing (At least where I live). If you do that you should be more than able to get all the functionality out of Ubuntu and many of its other family members.  I've myself used XP for around 6-7 and Win 7 for 1 & 1/2 years, I first went to Ubuntu flagship and then had a taste of the few other distro's as well, my experience was quite pleasant tbh 
Probably because I'm no gamer and I don't use Auto-CAD on my home PC, but lets be honest, anyone who is shifting from old XP device is bound to be the same as its hardly usable for either in this day and age. 

I'm currently using Xubuntu and I love that distro.

----------


## pfeiffep

+1


> I would advise getting upgrade in RAM if possible


 Upgrading the ram in my old Dell laptop from 512 MB to 2 GB made all the difference in the world.

----------


## SurfaceUnits

95.263% of computer users aren't zealots. If KingSoft Office allows them to do what they need to do, they will happily use it.

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

49 as of today, 51 to go for my first 100 machines  :Very Happy: 

After I convert 100, I will make a big party and then start the next Phase of StartUbuntu Project or perhaps start it earlier  :Very Happy: 

These are just my Real Life Record  :Wink: 
I can't remember how many people I have managed to convert online  :Very Happy: 

Hope the convert project for you is working well?!  :Smile:

----------


## monkeybrain20122

Hi amjjawad, I am planning to put lubuntu on someone's old xp machine, but I am alerted to a bug in lubuntu where the updater never notifies users for update. This bug has been around since 12.04. This would explain why some people I have installed lubuntu for never update! I think this is a major security concern for basic users who would not check for updates by themselves. I  ended up telling them to update manually every week with synaptic and somewhat embrassingly (as something that I expect to work doesn't)

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...r/+bug/1046563

----------


## riverguy99

> Hi,
> 
> 49 as of today, 51 to go for my first 100 machines 
> 
> After I convert 100, I will make a big party and then start the next Phase of StartUbuntu Project or perhaps start it earlier 
> 
> These are just my Real Life Record 
> I can't remember how many people I have managed to convert online 
> 
> Hope the convert project for you is working well?!


So far, I've converted all five of our office and home computers to Ubuntu.  Four to 12.04 and one to 12.10. My Lovely Bride, who hates change and is somewhat of a technophobe, had no issues at all changing over from XP.  She wasn't too happy about having to learn GIMP when she had been using Photoshop for her work for years, but she's fine with it now. (I installed  2.8 and enabled "single pane mode" and it made all the difference in the world!)  I also did the Dell XPS laptop my granddaughters use and they didn't even notice!  I just put all their girlie-program links back on and they're fine.  But then 9-and 11-yr-olds are pretty adaptable!

We still have two machines with XP dual boot just in case we need to run something that must have ******* to run, but so far, this has also not been an issue, so XP just quietly sits there in the computer's basement.

I'm diligently working on some friends and associates to let me help them switch, but there's a lot of resistance.  Even after I let them play on one of our machines, they tell me, oh yeah, this is great! Then they still worry about being able to stick with their *******-dedicated programs.  We need a better sales pitch, I guess!

I also hear and read a lot of concerns about being able to run Ubuntu on older machines.  I've installed 12.04 on a ten-year-old Toshiba laptop (remember those old ones with the square display?) and it runs fine.  It is a bit slow, but then so was XP on that machine.  I also installed 12.04 on a first-edition Acer Netbook.  Works great.  Two of our office machines are Dell D-630s and they drive dual displays, are connected to remote keyboards, and they run all our office and publishing company apps just fine.  Sometimes we have GIMP, Libre Office and several Web programs all running at the same time.  No issues. 

Carry on!

----------


## amjjawad

> Hi amjjawad, I am planning to put lubuntu on someone's old xp machine, but I am alerted to a bug in lubuntu where the updater never notifies users for update. This bug has been around since 12.04. This would explain why some people I have installed lubuntu for never update! I think this is a major security concern for basic users who would not check for updates by themselves. I  ended up telling them to update manually every week with synaptic and somewhat embrassingly (as something that I expect to work doesn't)
> 
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...r/+bug/1046563


Hi and thanks a lot for posting  :Smile: 

If truth to be told, I'm not aware of this bug. But I noticed the same topic is being discussed on Lubuntu Mailing List ...

For me, I never follow any update notifier as I always update my system manually using the Terminal and I have stopped using Lubuntu for some months now. But this is definitely great post and helpful as I'm still using Lubuntu on my real life project to convert my neighbourhood. Hmm, I must be careful about this from now and on  :Smile: 

If truth to be told, while Lubuntu has so many good features, bugs like this will definitely make me think more than twice before installing it. Why? because I'm dealing with 100% 'new' users to GNU/Linux; they have never ever heard of Linux. There are many other issues, one of them is the resolution with small display (11 inch). Still waiting for Julien to step in. And there are more.

In fact, for someone like me? I don't mind to live with the current workaround if any. BUT and a HUGE BUT ... my neighbours are:
Non-Technical people.Never ever heard of GNU/Linux before nor used it (rarely, I find someone who knows).Super busy to the point they don't have time to pick their laptops from me (sometimes, I have to wait for a week).Because of #3 they have no time to learn new stuff and depend on me 90% to answer their QsBecause I'm converting many people (so far 49), I don't have time and I can't do the workaround for all of them at the same time - this is an overkill for me at the moment. 

Mainly, these are the reasons that I must be careful and select the right system for them.

I haven't yet used Ubuntu, Kubuntu nor anything else. My choices are always: Ubuntu GNOME, Xubuntu and Lubuntu (because I know about these more and I use them daily or used them before).

I'm planning to write some blog post about my real life experience with StartUbuntu. I must admit, I have learned a lot and I'm not just talking about the technical learning, I'm talking about everything in general  :Smile:  once I find some time (so many projects, no time even to shave), I will write and share it.

Sometimes, I feel all these projects are overkill and I wish I could be free for a week but every time I think about how FOSS and GNU/Linux could change the life or someone like it did with me, I can't stop spreading the word. The success of StartUbuntu in real life in my case was over 90% and it is very impressive. 

Thank you for promoting for StartUbuntu. The best help our project got was from Xubuntu Team. Lyz has done a lot and I appreciate that. Still hope and wait for the other flavours to step in  :Smile:

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## mastablasta

> Because I'm converting many people (so far 49), I don't have time and I can't do the workaround for all of them at the same time - this is an overkill for me at the moment.


imagine now movien 5000+ PC's from WinXP to linux  :Smile:  frankly some of the bugs are a bit silly and should be picked up and solved ASAP. i mean plenty of them include stuff people would normaly do so it's hard for me to understand they od not get picked during testing periods.

furthermore Kubuntu (if menu is set to classic) look a lot like windows. it's not just the look it'sd also the way things are done, changed, desktop is setup, the way "control panel" is setup, the ay how you can do almost all via GUI... it has cool and beneficial deskotp effects for those that can handle it. KDE has it's own ofice suite. i've been using it for some time and many features are still undiscovered and still suprise me when i find them. they improved really a lot and seem to listen to user "complaints", suggestions, ideas. most of all i find that best GUI applications are based on qt and in KDE.

for those with older maschines disabling the special desktop effects speeds it all up and makes it all very snappy and still beautiful even on those maschines.


and form all this i have great hopes in new LXQT project. excelent GUI qt based apps on a light qt desktop. what better for an older maschine?!?

Gnome hides features in user GUI as to not overwhelm the users with options. KDE doesn't hide them but presents them. however they imrpoved a lot that these presented features are presented in a way that in my opinion is not overwhelming at all yet they are still available. use of tabs, separation of options etc. will have you see but a few options on each screen.

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## monkeybrain20122

I have converted only a few for friends, usually older laptops which I put lubuntu on, except for one with enough power to run Ubuntu. 

Instead of convert as many as possible that come my way I try to focus on quality instead. I take my time to optimize the systems for the best performance so I do quite a bit of testings and tweakings before I deliever the laptops, sometimes takes days or even weeks. I figure I am playing the OEM here, Windows works mostly smoothly because the OEMS have done the optimization and testing (at least in theory), I would like to offer comparable experience for those I install Ubuntu for, so I am very thorough about testing and implementing work arounds if things don't work out of the box. A lot of the tweaks would be quite beyond new users. But then I still miss things like the lubuntu update notifier bug because I use synaptic to manual update and I don't use lubuntu myself.

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## DhrSchap

In fact I have succesfully transferred a couple of "old" PCs to Xubuntu. Whereas in XP they virtually were useless (fire-up, return 30 minutes later) now they are performing very well and are excellent for day-to-day use as browsing the internet and writing a document.

Here are the specs of the 2 PCs

1. AMD Athlon Barton core 2800+ (running at 2250 Mhz), with 1 GB of memory (entry into service around 2003- selfbuilt)
2. Intel pentium III @866 Mhz with 384 Mb memory (entry into service around 2000- compaq)

The oldest PC still going strong in my home network is a PC originally equiped with windows 98, it is an original pentium 133 Mhz with a whopping 48 Mb of ram which entered into service in 1996 (Gateway2000). It runs as a fileserver and backup webserver on Linux Mandrake.

By the way, and I am writing this from Africa, poor people do not need the old stuff which is no good anymore in the developed world, that applies for clothes but also for e-waste. The 4g was rolled out in my hometown well before many cities in other parts of the world just to give an example. So thanks but no thanks for that.

 :Wave:

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## Ripp_Steakface

I noticed that support for XP was dropping a while back and I didn't have the budget for Windows 7, so after some playing around I put Xubuntu 14.04 on my Asus EeePC 900HA and it's running great! At this point I can't even believe I considered putting Windows on this laptop again.

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## SurfaceUnits

Just did an install on a Toshiba laptop for a lady who is tired of shopathome and coupon.com crap on her Windows 7.

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## amjjawad

Hi,

You really want to read this  :Very Happy: 

China bans use of Microsoft's Windows 8 on government computers: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...A4J07Q20140520  :Very Happy: 

Orginally shared by: http://www.webupd8.org/
I have seen that on Facebook

Time to spread the word of StartUbuntu  :Very Happy:

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## sudodus

OBI-9w

Hi _amjjawad_  and everybody else interested in an installer for very old computers,

There is a new and special version of the 9w installer, the OBI-9w installer.

This version is made for very old computers without PAE capability. The One Button Installer is run from the 9w installer's debian system. Now
there is a super light-weight installer, that can

- install from CD, DVD and USB
- create not only single boot but also dual boot systems.

Prepare partitions with Gparted and run the One Button Installer at the advanced level to create dual boot or multi boot system.

There are special tarballs for the 9w installer, and these tarballs come with the iso file. Right now I have only uploaded one iso file of the
OBI-9w installer. It contains a mini.iso version of Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with _phillw_'s non-pae kernel.

http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9...24-text-9w.iso

After installation you can easily build Lubuntu, Lubuntu Core, Ubuntu Server or a custom system with your selection of packages.

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## amjjawad

Hi all,

I can't stop thinking about this article:
http://www.zdnet.com/why-microsoft-l...ux-7000035218/

Kidding a side, I have a feeling that one day, Microsoft Windows will be just another GNU/Linux Distribution  :Smile: 
With all due respect to Microsoft and for whatever they did to the software and computer world, one has to admit that Linux rules the world and the rest come behind. Time will tell  :Smile: 

Happy reading! 

P.S.
I am working on proposing a session in UOS 1411 (less than 2 weeks from today) for StartUbuntu and I have a surprise for you  :Smile:  not really a surprise, let's say good news and yes, it is about StartUbuntu  :Wink:

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## amjjawad

Hi everyone, 

My apology for the short notice. I'd like to invite you to attend: 
http://summit.ubuntu.com/uos-1411/me...ntu-next-step/ 

And share your ideas here. I am interested to know what are you  thinking? what do you have in mind? etc   :Smile: 
Feel free to join StartUbuntu mailing list  :Smile: 

I shall make an announcement on that session  :Wink: 

Thank you!

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## Mike_Walsh

Hello, amjjawad.

I've been reading this thread with interest the last couple of hours! I have to confess to being absolutely amazed at the attitude of John McCourt in the very first reply to your thread - post#2. It may be alright for some people to throw away & buy new every couple of years (indeed, each successive offering from MicroSoft has more or less mandated such action), but I think some people are talking out of their backsides...

I've been using the 'buntus since May, having decided that nearly 13 years of XP was enough for anybody; yes, I liked it, but with EOL having passed, I felt I was ready for something different. John McCourt's assertion that the (then) current version of Ubuntu - which by my calculations would have been 13.04 - not being capable of running  on XP machines has, perhaps, a shred of truth in it, if you take Ubuntu itself as the case in point. Unity, with its requirement for 3D acceleration, isn't really suitable for some of them, it's true....but this isn't the case for all, by a wide margin.

Case in point: I myself run 2 elderly machines. I was gifted a Compaq Presario desktop PC from my sister, back in January. It was running XP, EOL was fast approaching, and like so many non technically-minded people, she bought herself a new one with Win 7 preinstalled. I ran it till May, when I migrated to Ubuntu (I made the decision in less than 48 hrs!) I tried it out via Wubi; thought, "I like the look of this...", and wiped XP out of my life for good, and installed 14.04 in its place.

The Compaq has the amazing Athlon 64; the first commercially available CPU to natively run both 32- & 64-bit applications. It was the Pentium 4's direct competitor in the marketplace at the time; the machine dates from late 2005, and came with 1 GB RAM as standard, and a WD Caviar 'Black' HDD of 160 GB capacity; a fairly 'high-end' system for its day. My sister only used it for shopping on E-Bay & Amazon, and playing The Sims.....it had a very easy life! I've since uprated that to 3 GB, and will soon be increasing to 4 GB (I've got to replace the two 512MB sticks with 1 GB sticks, to get the extra 1 GB, and am limited to 4 GB by virtue of having DDR1 slots). The ATI Xpress200 integrated graphics chip copes with 14.04 without a murmur, and boot-up times are in the order of 45 seconds or so; impressive, compared to the 5+ minutes needed for XP.

I've just discovered the latest version of Puppy Linux; 'Tahrpup' 6.0. I tried out this little gem about a fortnight ago; my God, what a revelation...! With my current set-up, boot-up times are, well.....'quick' is an understatement. It runs from a flash drive, this being the way Puppy has worked for years, and it runs entirely in RAM, the installed size being somewhere in the region of 160 MB. I timed it from selecting 'Boot from USB', to the desktop being up-and-running this morning; 14 seconds..... Say 20-25 from powering up to being ready to use.....that IS impressive!

I've no sooner clicked on, say, Chrome's icon on the desktop, than it's open and ready. The same goes for every application I've got installed, plus all the pre-installed stuff that comes with Puppy as standard; how they get nearly 200 apps into 160MB I will NEVER know.....but the net result is an OS/machine combination that will beat the pants off just about anything else on the market for speed & responsiveness; including some very high-end stuff. It'll do everything I want it to; browsing, word processing, and a lot of graphics stuff......I've had an interest in graphic design for over 30 years. I run the GIMP, LibreCAD, Blender, and a little-known Windows app called PhotoScape, which I've not been able to find a direct equivalent to in Linux; this runs in Wine, version 1.7.32. So it's hardly 'lightweight', as far as features go; and it's the fastest setup I've ever found.....faster than my brother's top-end iMac, and my Mum's 3-yr old Dell Inspiron  15R, with a quad-core i5 & 6 GB of DDR3, plus a 750 GB HDD.

Now why on EARTH would I want to throw that away?

**************************************************  *************************************

I have an even older Dell Inspiron laptop; an original 1100, from 2002-3. OK, it's a 'brick'; the battery pack alone weighs more than a MacBook 'Air'.....but it still works perfectly, and has the nicest keyboard & touchpad I've ever come across in ANY laptop. It came with just 128 MB RAM, and a 20GB Hitachi Travelstar HDD, along with a Netburst-generation Celeron processor.....and running XP. It used to take nearly 10 minutes to boot-up! It now has 1 GB of RAM, and an 80 GB HDD. 

I've installed 'Tahrpup' into a SanDisk Cruzer Fit 'nano' flash drive, which I leave permanently plugged into one of the 2 USB 2.0s on the back; the other is occupied by a TP-Link WN725N 'nano' wireless adapter. I now have another amazing system, which boots-up in about 40 seconds, and runs the same range of apps as the one on the Compaq. Before anybody asks, yes, you CAN install Puppy to the HDD, but it's not really recommended, as it was designed from the word go to run from a flashdrive for portability, and has been optimized for the kind of read/write speeds inherent in a flashdrive.....so I use the internal HDD purely for storage. It's been set-up for network printing, too.....so will print from the other 'Tahrpup' installation as the host.

And these kind of machines should be scrapped, or sent to the Third World as 'charity donations'?

Words fail me. If it ain't broke.....


Regards,

Mike.  :Wink:

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## Alex Eagle

I paraphrase:


> there are other alternatives 
> Lubuntu
> Xubuntu
> 
> Both work on old machines.
> 
> 
> if Ubuntu, Ubuntu GNOME, Kubuntu, etc will not work on that hardware, we do have Lubuntu and Xubuntu 
> 
> ...


Let's also not forget (without taking away from the 'buntus) that there are other distros of Linux. For example, Debian, even Raspian (designed specially for the Raspberry Pi, which has very small RAM, no HHD, a small processor - I think -  and runs the OS off of an SD card as small as 4GB). There are many distros of Linux, and consequently Ubuntu, that require *very* little.

This is a great project, Windows sucks, and I don't see any problem with StartUbuntu.

Thank you, and goodnight!  :Very Happy:

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## Alex Eagle

> I've just discovered the latest version of Puppy Linux; 'Tahrpup' 6.0. I tried out this little gem about a fortnight ago; my God, what a revelation...! With my current set-up, boot-up times are, well.....'quick' is an understatement. It runs from a flash drive, this being the way Puppy has worked for years, and it runs entirely in RAM, the installed size being somewhere in the region of 160 MB. I timed it from selecting 'Boot from USB', to the desktop being up-and-running this morning; 14 seconds..... Say 20-25 from powering up to being ready to use.....that IS impressive!
> 
> I've no sooner clicked on, say, Chrome's icon on the desktop, than it's open and ready. The same goes for every application I've got installed, plus all the pre-installed stuff that comes with Puppy as standard; how they get nearly 200 apps into 160MB I will NEVER know.....but the net result is an OS/machine combination that will beat the pants off just about anything else on the market for speed & responsiveness; including some very high-end stuff.
> 
> faster than my brother's top-end iMac, and my Mum's 3-yr old Dell Inspiron  15R, with a quad-core i5 & 6 GB of DDR3, plus a 750 GB HDD.
> 
> Now why on EARTH would I want to throw that away?


Yo Mike! Well said buddy. It makes me wonder how well Ubuntu (or Tahrpup) would run on something like a Mac Pro or an Alienware (damn! I shiver at the name!  :Razz:  power packed or what. It's like a laptop Iron Man.)

Do you think I could try Tahrpup?  Given my current speed probs because of having to use the vesa driver... 

Regards,

Al.

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## Mike_Walsh

Hey, Alex.

I don't see any reason at all why you shouldn't give Tahrpup a go; gotta be worth a try, mate. Here's the download link:-

http://distro.ibiblio.org/puppylinux...pup%20-6.0-CE/

You want the first of the bottom 4 entries.....tahr_6.0_CE_PAE.iso. No need to worry about 32- or 64-bit; Puppies are ALL 32-bit.....so they'll run on ANYTHING. Burn it to a CD.

I'll give you a tip (and this was learnt over many repeated installation attempts of earlier Puppies); load it in (the entire OS sits in RAM, so it is FAST!).....and before you do ANYthing else, find the Puppy Installer in the menu, and get it installed to a flashdrive. The instructions are real easy to follow, but if you get stuck, give us a shout. 

As soon as you've done that, shutdown straight away, and create your 'save-file'; Puppy saves your changes at shutdown, and at half-hourly intervals while you're using it; cuts down on the read/write cycles to your flash drive.....which is what wears them out sooner or later.

Having done that, you can then boot from your flashdrive, and check that the install procedure worked properly. Another little tip; I've discovered that a 'Puppy' flashdrive doesn't like sharing space on my USB hub with any other USB installs, of ANY kind! Make sure it's the ONLY thing you've got plugged in ( at least until it's booted); after that, it's quite happy.

Give it a try, & let us know how you get on.

Regards,

Mike.  :Smile:

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## Alex Eagle

Paraphrase: 


> Burn it to a CD.
> 
>  load it in, find the Puppy Installer in the menu, and get it installed to a flashdrive.
> 
> As soon as you've done that, shutdown straight away, and create your 'save-file'; Puppy saves your changes at shutdown, and at half-hourly intervals while you're using it; cuts down on the read/write cycles to your flash drive.....which is what wears them out sooner or later.
> 
> Having done that, you can then boot from your flashdrive


Can you PM me the instructions a bit more detailed? Sorry but I'm not quite with you. Load what, and where? What menu? By get it installed I presume you mean the installer. Create the save file on another PC or reboot and do it on this one? And what save file?

Sorry about this dude!  :Very Happy:

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## mörgæs

Please don't use personal messages. We prefer to have everything in the open to benefit all users.

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## Mike_Walsh

Hello, morgaes.


Originally posted by morgaes:-



> Please don't use personal messages. We prefer to have everything in the open to benefit all users.


Understood, and appreciated; but this IS a forum for Ubuntu and ITS derivatives.....I don't think the membership really want to know about 'Puppy Linux'... (Or perhaps they WOULD be interested; I wouldn't like to say..!)

Be that as it may, 'Puppy Linux' does have its own forums.

I suppose you COULD say, in a very roundabout fashion, that the Puppies ARE 'buntu derivatives.....they all seem to be based on Ubuntu releases, anyway.

Regards,

Mike.

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## mörgæs

Yes, perhaps a better option is to open a thread in one of these fora:
http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=446

----------


## Alex Eagle

Or perhaps a still better option is to quickly metion what Mike sent me?




> Morning, young'un,
> 
> Sorry if that was confusing; I'll try and explain it a bit more carefully for you.
> 
> Firstly, you have to know that all versions of Puppy Linux were designed  to run from a flash drive, right from the first one.....back in, I  think, 2004. They were always intended to be carried around in your  pocket, from one place to another.
> 
> Obviously, your first move is to burn that .iso file to a CD (as slowly  as possible; important for any install disk, really). Once you've done  that, arrange things so you can boot from the CD, just like using an  Ubuntu 'Live Session. You'll be quite surprised how quick Puppy boots;  the first time is slower, because nothing's setup yet, but....anyway.  When it first starts, you get a 'setup' screen; DO select the firewall,  and select 'Run internet apps as Spot' (I'll try and explain about  'Spot' later...) THIS assumes, of course, that your screen is behaving  itself; this setup screen is where you get to select different video  drivers'n'stuff, I believe, although that isn't something I've needed to  do.....mine runs fine with the standard AMD driver.
> 
> Then go to the  Menu button (bottom left, just like Windows), and select 'Setup'; then  down near the bottom of the sub-menu, 'Puppy Installer'. I can't really  talk you through this next bit, because there are SO many windows, but  really, Alex, a blind man couldn't get lost.....the instructions are so  easy, and self explanatory.
> ...


Good?

P.S: Mike; Please help! This craptop is lapsing into it's crappy days again... It keeps on going through slow patches. I have installed Wine so that might be something because I seem to hae some Win apps that I've not installed so there might be a bunch of bloatware type extras I don't need. If you could help me out with this on th LTS thread I'd appreciate it.  :Smile:

----------


## Mike_Walsh

Hey, Alex.

Will do, if I can. Just for your information, if you want to go ahead with the 'Puppy' install, here's the link to the 'Puppy' forums:-

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/ind...f65577c1a72286

They should be able to answer any further questions, probably better than I can; some of these guys have been using 'Puppy' ever since it first appeared! I doubt there's anything about the O/S they DON'T know.

And don't forget; this shouldn't slow your 'crap-top' down one whit; the entire thing runs in RAM, so it is blazingly fast.....it's a real lesson in the meaning of a 'minimal' installation, even though at the same time, it's surprisingly full-featured for its footprint!

Regards,

Mike.  :Wink:

----------


## oldrocker99

I bought, for $50, a 2007 Lenovo 3000 N100, with a 32-bit :Think:  Intel Core Duo T2300E / 1.66 GHz, which would run like the proverbial dog on Windows 7 (not to mention being a paperweight with Windows 8  :Brick wall: ), but with 32-bit Ubuntu MATE 14.04.1 (now available!), it runs like a top.

Another aging PC brought back to useful life with Linux!

----------


## amjjawad

Hi everyone,

I have wrote this post just now and thought to share it here:
http://amjjawad.net/startubuntu-leadership/

Thank you!

----------


## amjjawad

Hi,

I'm stepping down from the project I have founded:
http://amjjawad.net/startubuntu-needs-new-driver/

Looking forward to hand over the project to whoever wishes to step in.

Thank you!

----------

