# The Ubuntu Forum Community > Other Discussion and Support > Art & Design >  A true photoshop alternative....No not GIMP!! "PIXEL" actually

## abs

hello all,

I came across a programme the other day, and as i cant use GIMP, as it just stresses me out just trying to do simple things, i know my GIMP comments will prompt a reaction from people, but i just wont to say in my defence, i tried many many times to use it but the usr interface and interaction is not user-friendly, click here and there then click here and here then once again...

anyhow, sorry about the bitching, am just a bit stressed these days.  :Sad: 

anyway, Check out this programme 

PIXEL 
#### This is a TRAIL version, and not FREEWARE/opensource ####
#### Test it if you wish, it is still in development ######

it's still in development but i cant wait for it to be finished,

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## Wally68

Downloaded and installed it, it's trying to sell itself to me. I detest shareware. Looks OK, but why would I spend $32 on beta software, or $100 for v1.0, when I can get PaintshopPro for $60. What's so hard about the GIMP? I find it easier to use than paintshop.

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## abs

> Downloaded and installed it, it's trying to sell itself to me. I detest shareware. Looks OK, but why would I spend $32 on beta software, or $100 for v1.0, when I can get PaintshopPro for $60. What's so hard about the GIMP? I find it easier to use than paintshop.


to be honest, i have always found Paintshop to suck!!  :Wink:  

and also, i am talking about it working on linux, am not sure if paintshop works on ubuntu, if does i still pay for Pixel over it.

 :Very Happy:

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## kakashi

how pathetic.*sorry i just felt that
you can't use gimp which is complete and free and has a strong kind user base.
but you recommend a non-opensource non-free program that is not complete, that does not have a great user base or documentation. wow you are amazing. 

why don't you try gimp a little. did you just spend 5 mins on it a decide its not a photoshop clone so its not good. 

also i am not sure if that thumbnail should be on ubuntu forums. 
i like many other read this from school, office and libraries and we sure as hell don't want even a hint a that stuff (do you see the extent of skin showing on that girl) on our screen. could not have taken a screen shot of something better.

*well here ends my ranting that accumulated while reading your post

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## jeffjj

I would recommend reading Grokking the GIMP if you have troubles using GIMP. I found that my troubles with the GIMP was me not understanding how the program worked. I can accomplish anything my co-workers can do with their editors but we take different paths to get there. I read an article that talked about the different image programs and the general conclusion was people like what they are used to...especially with a complicated program like the GIMP or Photoshop.

That said I prefer to support free software, but I have no problem buying software if I need to. What bugs me is when commercial software tries to make you pay a ton. This program walks the line as they do want quite a bit of money although not a ridiculous amount. I would prefer to not pay over $50.00 for any one given program.

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## abs

> how pathetic.*sorry i just felt that
> you can't use gimp which is complete and free and has a strong kind user base.
> but you recommend a non-opensource non-free program that is not complete, that does not have a great user base or documentation. wow you are amazing. 
> 
> why don't you try gimp a little. did you just spend 5 mins on it a decide its not a photoshop clone so its not good. 
> 
> also i am not sure if that thumbnail should be on ubuntu forums. 
> i like many other read this from school, office and libraries and we sure as hell don't want even a hint a that stuff (do you see the extent of skin showing on that girl) on our screen. could not have taken a screen shot of something better.
> 
> *well here ends my ranting that accumulated while reading your post


My oh my,

have I struck a cord with your nerves or something, i think your over reacting, I am not recommending it, nor saying people should go and buy it, I just wonted people to check it out, If you love Gimp then good for you, I love my ubuntu and OpenSource as a whole, but i don't like gimp or shall i say its not my thing, FREEDOME of Choice,  I am all for opensource. and think the whol comunity is great,

All I did was give my view on it, I do apploigies if it seemed like i am recommending you go out and buy it, I just said " I ".

##Iv just changed the screenshots so you dont get all emotional again, god knows what you might end up doing with a bit of skin showing  :Wink: 

If the OpenSource community has alternatives to commercial products then great, but if not then someone is gona fill in the gab. easy as.

Thanks "jeffjj" for a good post and not an emotional one.  :Very Happy:

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## kakashi

please change the second screen shot as well. i wanna look at the interface but i can't since the hot naked (well 99% naked anyways )chick keeps getting in the way. 
do you think i can open that in school




> ##Iv just changed the screenshots so you dont get all emotional again, god knows what you might end up doing with a bit of skin showing


the freaking point is not what you can do with a skin but how badly it reflects on you if that image opens in the library or in school or at work.
also don't even talk about what someone might do with a bit of skin since clearly you weren't DOING anything modifying a girls picture *wink wink

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## endersshadow

While I won't be buying Pixel, and I do like the GIMP as a whole, the fact that the GIMP completely takes over my taskbar has always annoyed me.  I like the single window interface of Pixel, and would like to play with it, but I'm a poor college student, and I just don't want to pay for it or have to pay for it in the future.

P.S.-If anybody knows of a way to get the GIMP to be contained all in one window, please let me know.  I will be forever grateful  :Smile:

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## fuscia

try gimpshop. the interface is set up almost exactly like photoshop. here's a review of it in PC magazine - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759...129TX1K0000530

download - http://www.gimpshop.net/

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## endersshadow

Thanks!  It doesn't come in deb, so I'm running alien on it right now...I'm excited  :Smile: 

Update: Well, my excitement is crushed.  The alien installed fine, and when I booted up GIMP, it gave me the gimpshop splash...I was pumped.  And then...it looked just like the regular GIMP...and I couldn't find an option to change the interface.  Oh well, I'll just live with it.

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## Suzan

Well, you tried to make a Photoshop-clone. For me, as someone who uses PS at work, GIMP is a little bit difficult, indeed. But the GIMP is free, it's OpenSource and it's good.

I think, the only thing you made here is an advertisement for your software. It's not free, not OpenSource - so then it's advertisement. And this forum isn't a place to put advertisement for any software, whatever it's good oder not.

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## codejunkie

why is everyone so upset about pixel not being free/opensource and not being gimp, pixel looks as it would be a good product given some time, i tried it and it seems to have some bugs, but it is a beta app come on people that is what beta products are for bug testing. and i think it's always good to have choice even if it's not foss software you don't see people complaning about buying vmware for linux and that cost's way more than $*32 bucks*, last time i checked it wasn't open source either. this is just what i've heard tons of people on these and other linux forums asking for an easy to use photoshop alternative. to the poster of this thread abs i say thanks, for bringing this to other people's attention it might actually convert some more windows users once it goes final.

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## Vidar

Yeah, what's the big fuss? Seems like an ok program for those of us that just can't stand the gimp-way of doing things. Linux needs some commercial products as well, in my opinion, just look at vmware or cedega for a couple of good examples. 

The best thing about pixel is that it might actually inspire somebody to start working on an even better OSS-application that goes along the same lines. The problem with the GIMP is that it's become a standard, just like photoshop, only problem is it has no competition that Im aware of in the OSS-community.

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## abs

> why is everyone so upset about pixel not being free/opensource and not being gimp, pixel looks as it would be a good product given some time, i tried it and it seems to have some bugs, but it is a beta app come on people that is what beta products are for bug testing. and i think it's always good to have choice even if it's not foss software you don't see people complaning about buying vmware for linux and that cost's way more than $*32 bucks*, last time i checked it wasn't open source either. this is just what i've heard tons of people on these and other linux forums asking for an easy to use photoshop alternative. to the poster of this thread abs i say thanks, for bringing this to other people's attention it might actually convert some more windows users once it goes final.



Thank god!! someone agrees with me, :Razz:   I just wonted to share this with the community in the hope that people who dont wont to use GIMP see an alternative,

Im "NOT" here to advertise things for people,  :Confused:   am not a spammer nor do I have any connection with this guy who makes it, I thought everyone should at least be aware of it  :Smile:  


use it don't use it, its your choice, and thats the point, you have a choice.


Thank you "codejunkie" & "Vidar"   :Very Happy:

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## kakashi

> Yeah, what's the big fuss? Seems like an ok program for those of us that just can't stand the gimp-way of doing things. Linux needs some commercial products as well, in my opinion, just look at vmware or cedega for a couple of good examples. 
> 
> The best thing about pixel is that it might actually inspire somebody to start working on an even better OSS-application that goes along the same lines. The problem with the GIMP is that it's become a standard, just like photoshop, only problem is it has no competition that Im aware of in the OSS-community.


yuo said it yourself. it needs competetion is OSS community. is this stupid software oss i ask you?
like i said its a beta (that takes money t use)that could be pwned by gimp (that is free)
spam spam spam

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## claydoh

I actually bought a license for Pixel back in my BeOS day, and recently bought a new one. It has come a very long way stability-wise, and it runs OK in Kubuntu. I think as a cross-platform tool, it is quite nice, but not quite in the Gimp/Photoshop vein, but more along the lines of Paint Shop Pro, version 7 or so, which I also own (and try running in wine when I get bored  :Smile:  ).

I have and am willing to spend some $$ on a project if I like it, OSS or not.

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## Wally68

Just got home from work and deleted pixel. Don't need it. No, paintshop doesn't work in ubuntu, unless there's something else I don't know. There's lot's I don't. I tried it with wine once, the installer locked up solid. Thanks to fuscia for bringing up gimpshop, I'll be checking that out for my wife. Her paintshop is the only reason I still have windows installed ( I want my 15Gigs back), as well as the primary motivation for even looking at pixel. Like I said, I like the gimp.
     Wally

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## kakashi

> why is everyone so upset about pixel not being free/opensource and not being gimp, pixel looks as it would be a good product given some time, i tried it and it seems to have some bugs, but it is a beta app come on people that is what beta products are for bug testing. and i think it's always good to have choice even if it's not foss software you don't see people complaning about buying vmware for linux and that cost's way more than $*32 bucks*, last time i checked it wasn't open source either. this is just what i've heard tons of people on these and other linux forums asking for an easy to use photoshop alternative. to the poster of this thread abs i say thanks, for bringing this to other people's attention it might actually convert some more windows users once it goes final.


i never bought vmware. 
i run qemu.

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## abs

> yuo said it yourself. it needs competetion is OSS community. is this stupid software oss i ask you?
> like i said its a beta (that takes money t use)that could be pwned by gimp (that is free)
> spam spam spam


how Silly!!!  :Brick wall:

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## claydoh

Spam???

You must be kidding! What's the difference in someone saying "Hey! look at this cool app, called Krita!" as opposed to saying "Hey, look at this cool app, called Pixel!" ? 

imnsho, the knee-jerk anti-commercial-software-OSS-is-the-only-Good-Way is more like spam than the initial post in this thread!

Pavel Kanzelsberger is no MS/Adobe/macromedia behemoth, just a guy who made a choice about his project. And choice is always a Good Thing.

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## abs

nicely put,  :Very Happy:  

personally I would like to see Ubuntu being THE platform that people would use to develop there software to.(I mean on a commercial bases as well as OpenSource) more so than it is now. so if or when you buy a game/app it will say compatible with Ubuntu. and if you dont wont to fork out some money, just get the free version or similar

commercial software will have to be extremely competitive and innovative and CHEAP to survive, as there wont be a point in making an app that the FREE version can compensate for.

any-ways, peace out people, I leave u with a message that's encountered too often in these forms thankfully  :Wink:  , Ubuntu Rocks,  :Razz:   :Very Happy:   :Smile:   :Wink:

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## ngnr

As a long time photoshop user, i have to say that for me it is not Spam, i need some alternatives for image editing under linux. 

Gimp its a good program but i don't like the UI, krita looks promising, but it is in early development , i haven't tried gimpshop and for me pixel is a good competitor.

I'm using open source software but, if i can't find a open source replacement to do my job, why i can't buy a comercial software that runs on my favorite OS ?  what's the BIG problem ?

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## dbw

omygod.   People just went crazy on this one, didn't they?  I just want to reaffirm,  abs, that this post was completely reasonable and appropriate for this venue.

1.  Open source is about choice.  Never (this is a command) *never* get mad at someone for presenting an option.

2.  Certain folks in the open source community always rail when they have to pay for software.  If we want corporations to make open source software, or software for our happy little open source operating system, we are going to have to suck it up and pay said software.  Period.  If you want to tell me that I should just buy the free verion, I might have to refer you to point 1.

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## kakashi

> Spam???
> 
> You must be kidding! What's the difference in someone saying "Hey! look at this cool app, called Krita!" as opposed to saying "Hey, look at this cool app, called Pixel!" ? 
> 
> imnsho, the knee-jerk anti-commercial-software-OSS-is-the-only-Good-Way is more like spam than the initial post in this thread!
> 
> Pavel Kanzelsberger is no MS/Adobe/macromedia behemoth, just a guy who made a choice about his project. And choice is always a Good Thing.



acutally i clasified my own post as spam. it served no purpose.

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## BLTicklemonster

Gosh, get off him. The dude doesn't like something you like, get over it. 

I use paintshop pro for quick simple easy stuff that is right there where I can find it, photo shop for finished results, and irfanview to make images look way cleaner (no pixelization) when I enlarge them. Of course having xp in vmware player on ubuntu makes this possible, but I'm getting the hang of gimp.

I do have to say that making text look 3d with shadows and all is a total pain in gimp, so yes, I'll stick to layering them in photo shop until gimp comes up with a better way of doing it. (yes, I have a 40 page tutorial on how to make 3d fonts in gimp sitting on my desk right now. what a joke!)

But that program right there looks way sweet!!! Can't wait til it is released! Great find, thanks a lot!

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## BLTicklemonster

> i never bought vmware. 
> i run qemu.


Buy vmware? I'm using the player:

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## kakashi

> Buy vmware? I'm using the player:


that could mean you either downlaoding (pirated) vmaware or downloaded the image (pirated xp) or went throught the trouble of making one using qemu.

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## BLTicklemonster

using qemu in the initial setup, yes, why? it's not like I use qemu to run xp, so what's your point? I'm just saying that I use VMware player in case anyone thinks they have to pay for vmware to have xp run in ubuntu. And what's with the Sherlock Holmes stuff there?


Okay, the affront has worn off. I'm curious, how well does XP run in qemu?

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## jozmak

Thanks a lot for telling me about this program. It is impressive. I also use the Gimp but I don't like its interface and Pixel seems a real Pearl for me. It is not impossible that at some point the developer will release it as an open source product. Today, I've read a post on their forum where someone brought up this question. The developer didn't dismiss it out of hand, in fact, he said he was thinking about it-a good sign. He is developing and managing the program all by himself, which doesn't leave much time for him to promote it. He started the project in 1997 and their forum has only 58 registered users, which means that not so many people know abut it. I think, this app needs a force behind it and the open source community would be a natural choice for that. 

Regards,
J. Mak

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## JuanC

Why Pixel don't have a native version for amd64?

Programs that are 32 bits running in 64 bits , like OpenOffice , crash in my system a lot.

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## BLTicklemonster

Wow, it's pretty danged easy, too

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## kperkins

> Why Pixel don't have a native version for amd64?
> 
> Programs that are 32 bits running in 64 bits , like OpenOffice , crash in my system a lot.


I think he's working on a 64 bit version, but remember he's one man, and he's putting out at least 3 other 32 bit versions, by himself.(which is a good argument for open sourcing it--or at least getting some help, of some kind) (and how does Gimp do on amd64s, by the way?)

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## abs

hello everyone,

Thanks for all your posts and i am glad you appreciate the Pixel  :Wink: ,  I also hope one day it will become open-source, however, if not then it would be good if he gets some help as this programme would be such an asset to the Linux Platform, probably will even convert a few more people over to Linux (Ubuntu  :Very Happy:  ), sweet...  :Smile: 

I have told the main and only developer that i will test Pixel and report the bugs,

so hopefully one day it will be stable,

 :Razz:

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## Darling

XaraX is now XaraExtreme
Well, it's not exactly a photoshop-like program, but it was my favorite windows graphics program.
And they're porting it to linux and mac (and making it open source!!!)
http://www.xaraxtreme.org/faqs.html
http://www.xaraxtreme.org/download.html

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## abs

good stuff, i never knew they were doing that,

I use to use this programme 4years ago to make logos and loved it, but lost touch now, I am sure once its released on Linux ill get a handle of it again.

.. thanks for sharing it with us  :Very Happy:  , i hope to see more programmes like it being released for Linux.

Free on Linux, as in FREE BEER  :Very Happy:

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## Minyaliel

Dunno, personally I prefer GIMP, mainly because I just can't afford a penny on software  :Capital Razz:  And I've found, it's much easier to produce great graphics for any purpose in the GIMP than the program I used while on Windows, (an admittedly pirated copy of) Paintshop Pro. Does anyone know if Terragen runs on Ubuntu?

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## BLTicklemonster

Terragen? Like UT mapping Terragen, terrain generator?

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## towsonu2003

> I also hope one day it will become open-source


oh well, not gonna use when there is OPEN SOURCE alternative. I'm learning to use GIMP and it seems it's not worse than photoshop. gotta learn how to use... just like linux...

I would wait till it's open source (if ever), then help them fix bugs and stuff...

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## BLTicklemonster

> XaraX is now XaraExtreme
> Well, it's not exactly a photoshop-like program, but it was my favorite windows graphics program.
> And they're porting it to linux and mac (and making it open source!!!)
> http://www.xaraxtreme.org/faqs.html
> http://www.xaraxtreme.org/download.html


Yay, I've got something else that doesn't do anything but sit there!!! Odd.

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## Minyaliel

> Terragen? Like UT mapping Terragen, terrain generator?


 Err... yes? I quite liked fiddling around with it when I had Windows.

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## BLTicklemonster

Cool, have you tried using it in Wine? I'm a mapper/scriptor ( www.utmappers.com ) and am having problems with mapping in linux. I had to make a virtual drive for windows in linux just to use the editor, I wonder if terragen works in wine? But then that would be a pain to have to go back and forth between the two. Sure would be nice if someone could get linux to use stuff like unrealed. I see it's got a version for mac, so I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to get it to linux.

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## BLTicklemonster

http://www.openscenegraph.org/

Check that out. For Linux. If you figure out how to make it work, would you please share this info with this total noob? I keep seeing neat stuff in synaptic (where you can also find and install this under libopenscenegraphc2), and installing them, then I never see the stinking things again. No idea where they go, how to start them, anything....

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## etc

I love how some of you don't use the Gimp because it has a different ui than Photoshop.  You are the same people who pledge that you shouldn't complain that Ubuntu isn't Windows.

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## abs

> I love how some of you don't use the Gimp because it has a different ui than Photoshop.  You are the same people who pledge that you shouldn't complain that Ubuntu isn't Windows.


Love your constructed criticism. Keep it up.  :Confused:

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## kakashi

> Love your constructed criticism. Keep it up.


he is right though. 
i argue a lot over gimp and photo shop with my freinds who only use windows. since they have never trie gimp they can't appreciate it. it takes weeks to learn and years to master a software. you ppl are used to photoshop cuz you spent so much time usng it. try using gimp for half that time and then saying its bad.

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## kperkins

I love Gimp, I use Gimp everyday, I haven't used Photoshop for over a year.
That being said, Photoshop does some things better, and makes some things easier to do than Gimp. (Like animated gifs--I had to download, and install gifsicle so that I could control how many times a gif cycles, because the only choice in Gimp is forever--or slicing images--I haven't found anything for Linux that makes slicing images as easy as in Photoshop, although svgslice for Inkscape looks promising, if I could figure it out.  :Very Happy: )

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## Vidar

The problem is that the gimp don't seem to be developed by people with the slightest idea of how to make a nice working enviroment for a professional artist. 

Don't take that to seriously now, it's just the way I see it. I have been thinking about getting in touch with the gimp-developers, but having heard so much about the way the take to critisism and new ideas - I have not even bothered. I keep doing my professional work in photoshop through wine or at work.

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## jasplund

I thought this discussion was about Pixel and not about gimp. I think pixel looks promicing. especially since it works with 16-bit images and color management (well gimp 2.4 will work with CM as well)

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## Vidar

It sure does look promising, I really hope he decides to open up the project.  :Smile: 

Although, I wouldn't mind to pay him a little something, but I often feel more at ease with donating for software.

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## BLTicklemonster

I've got to agree. Gimp with it's multiple windows (oops closed the wrong one, where'd it go?... never to be seen again because ... well, your average user shouldn't be bothered with something like that ever in the first place. I mean get real) (not to worry, I finally figured it out, it's just that I know other people who cuss when I say gimp) is just a tad bit too wierd. You'd think that they would have at least one time in their life opened up photoshop or paintshop and seen the ease with which they are navigated.

Shame there isn't some kind of "make your own gui" program for linux where you can just point and click in another program to decide what does what and where and make your own customized versions of things. That would totally rock. (first wiseguy who suggest I learn to write code and make one myself gets a ham sandwich in the kiester  :Razz:  )

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## fuscia

wait! why would anyone pay for something when they can get gimp for free, by default even?

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## BLTicklemonster

That's understandable. And though I prefer photoshop and paintshop over gimp for ease of use and simplicity, Gimp is growing on me a little at a time. I would prefer layer manipulation as in photoshop so that I can make 3d logos and such, and everything in the same window would be nice, but Gimp's pretty cool once you get familiar with it's quirky multiple windows and ways to go about things.

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## Vidar

> wait! why would anyone pay for something when they can get gimp for free, by default even?


Because you like the software and want to support the developer? Because you think that the software has qualities that overcome the pricetag by far? Because there's no equally good OSS application? 

There's a lot of reasons to do this.

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## kakashi

really i use gimp to make animatted gif too. its quite easy

also whats with ppl against the multiple windows. i find it most convenient. instead of like in photoshop where multiple images and open up behind each other and get confusing here i can a make a one image on top and minimize the windows i don;t use.

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## zetsurin

> yuo said it yourself. it needs competetion is OSS community. is this stupid software oss i ask you?
> like i said its a beta (that takes money t use)that could be pwned by gimp (that is free)
> spam spam spam


Kakashi, you are a moron.  A 100% open source moron as well, if that makes you feel better.  There is NOTHING wrong with a well written, quality closed source app made by a business who requires food, clothing and shelter.  The point that needs to really be emphasised to you is that the word FREE in the Linux world comes from FREEDOM, not FREELOADING you tight wad.  If you so oppose professional products, turn the other cheeck and let others in this community express their FREEDOM.  I appeciate the efforts of the GIMP developers, but like the original poster it's not an app I care to use.  Generally you get what you pay for and some people, like myself and the original poster agree that it's perfectly fare and above board to charge and not release the source for your apps.

The only gimp here is you my friend.

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## abs

> Because you like the software and want to support the developer? Because you think that the software has qualities that overcome the pricetag by far? Because there's no equally good OSS application? 
> 
> There's a lot of reasons to do this.


Totally true dude, a lot of people are always asking for a Photoshop alternative or at lease a programme that has a friendlier interface, I remember when I first used Photoshop, It took me minutes to figure my way around, and thats what Pixel does.  I am glad this programme has been made at lease now when people ask the all too familiar question on Linux forums, you can say "oh have you tried Pixel" everyone knows GIMP but if they were happy with it then the question of a Photoshop alternative would not have been asked in the begging,

I think GIMP is a great package but it just needs to change the UI or at least have the option too.
_
its like nokia phones, anyone who picks one up can very easily find there way around, with out having to read a manual._ speaking from a design and ergonomics point of view, 

Also you cant change the industrys standard that easily,(not unless the product is truly innovative and people love it i.e. FIREFOX or you are the market leader  :Wink:  ), OpenOffice for instance is very similar to MS office in UI, people are all too well accustomed to MS offices layout.

have you ever noticed how google does things, everything it does is designed to be as SIMPLE as possible, from the google Talk to google's picasa.

anyways, if GIMP dose not address these issues, then someone ells will, i.e. PIXEL. Just to reinforce this, Ubuntu is great because it is SIMPLE  :Razz:   and easy to use, and the community is well tied with it's developers and ideas are never short, Wi-Fi applications, auto hard drive mounting and rest, its easy of use is what makes it a fantastic OS.

thats why GIMP needs to start listing to people when they criticise it, especially people from the design world. Whither its about the UI or functions.

another instance is Apple, they work closely with the Graphics users and add new features or improve existing ones through there input.
 :Wink:

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## Perfect Storm

Depends, depends, depends....It really depends what I want to do. I use both Gimp, photoshop and pixel in linux. Everyone with its own strength.

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## abs

> Kakashi, you are a moron.  A 100% open source moron as well, if that makes you feel better.  There is NOTHING wrong with a well written, quality closed source app made by a business who requires food, clothing and shelter.  The point that needs to really be emphasised to you is that the word FREE in the Linux world comes from FREEDOM, not FREELOADING you tight wad.  If you so oppose professional products, turn the other cheeck and let others in this community express their FREEDOM.  I appeciate the efforts of the GIMP developers, but like the original poster it's not an app I care to use.  Generally you get what you pay for and some people, like myself and the original poster agree that it's perfectly fare and above board to charge and not release the source for your apps.
> 
> The only gimp here is you my friend.


cheers for putting it so bluntly  :Very Happy:  

I hope people make that distinction and understand what the word FREE in Linux means. (should be a wiki entry  :Wink:  )

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## kperkins

> really i use gimp to make animatted gif too. its quite easy
> 
> also whats with ppl against the multiple windows. i find it most convenient. instead of like in photoshop where multiple images and open up behind each other and get confusing here i can a make a one image on top and minimize the windows i don;t use.


I use it for animated gifs also, but as I said, I have to use a different program to adjust the number of cycles for it.  (I notice you said nothing about image slicing/mapping.  :Very Happy: )
Multiple windows sucks, because if you have other programs open in the same virtual desktop, then gimp gets lost--you have to click several times on the panel to bring up all the gimp windows, instead of just once. (and don't tell me to just put it on a different workspace--that's a crappy solution--I don't always want to have to switch between workspaces to use a program, and sometimes need it open in the same workplace for various reasons.)

----------


## xmastree

I was using Gimp recently, and one thing about the multiple windows *really* annoyed me.
I was using one of the built-in scripts, which opened a window. I clicked on the font select button and nothing happened. It took me a while (and a lot of hair pulling) before I realised that when I clicked that button, a window opened which was smaller than the one I was loking at, and was *completely hidden* behind it.
That's a real pain unless you're expecting it.

On the other hand, the picture I was working on was long and thin (horizontally) so I was able to arrange the windows I needed below it.

----------


## kakashi

ok if your so annoyed by gimps multi windows try using gimpshop. i think that is much more like photoshop, even the menus and options are named similar.

i suppose the reason i hated photoshop and did not use it is cuz it just too damn bloody expensive (my whole computer cost $250 so i am not spending more than that for 1 software) for me to use unless i resort to piracy. now however i have become used to gimp so a prefer it (but most ppl won't i know)

for all you ppl who can afford it go ahead use it. no body can convince you otherwise cuz in many ways photoshop is better. however it is constraned by the limits of closed source software, and from what i have read the fillters in gimp blow the filters in photoshop out of the water. also remember that photoshop is at version 7 and gimp at version 2.xxx. give it some devel tiome as well ppl.

also please join the gimp usability project if you find flaws in the interface. the developers are humans like you and me and probably so techy that it does not seem bad to them. HELP them out here
GIMP OpenUsability

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Let us take note real quick of the fact that just because we don't agree, that doesn't make any of us wrong. It's like when my kids argue because one of them says one thing is better than another, I have to intervene and let them know that it's a matter of preference.

It's perfectly okay for someone to like an interface so much that they will pay money to use it. Likewise, it's perfectly okay for someone to like that interface so much that they would like to see it used by other programs.

As far as all the gimpwindows, look at it like this: They are all inside your screen anyway, right? So then why not have them open in a main gimp window so that if nothing else, they are grouped together? What's the difference, except for at present, as was stated, they can get lost if you have more than one app going, which I did last night doing this to a buddy of mine:



sloppy, yeah; just having some fun, not trying to win awards, but man, I kept losing my gimpwindows because I had mail and fox and ftp open all at once.

----------


## kperkins

> I was using Gimp recently, and one thing about the multiple windows *really* annoyed me.
> I was using one of the built-in scripts, which opened a window. I clicked on the font select button and nothing happened. It took me a while (and a lot of hair pulling) before I realised that when I clicked that button, a window opened which was smaller than the one I was loking at, and was *completely hidden* behind it.
> That's a real pain unless you're expecting it.
> 
> On the other hand, the picture I was working on was long and thin (horizontally) so I was able to arrange the windows I needed below it.


That's a bug, and is taken care of in a newer version, I believe.

----------


## kperkins

> ok if your so annoyed by gimps multi windows try using gimpshop. i think that is much more like photoshop, even the menus and options are named similar.
> 
> i suppose the reason i hated photoshop and did not use it is cuz it just too damn bloody expensive (my whole computer cost $250 so i am not spending more than that for 1 software) for me to use unless i resort to piracy. now however i have become used to gimp so a prefer it (but most ppl won't i know)
> 
> for all you ppl who can afford it go ahead use it. no body can convince you otherwise cuz in many ways photoshop is better. however it is constraned by the limits of closed source software, and from what i have read the fillters in gimp blow the filters in photoshop out of the water. also remember that photoshop is at version 7 and gimp at version 2.xxx. give it some devel tiome as well ppl.
> 
> also please join the gimp usability project if you find flaws in the interface. the developers are humans like you and me and probably so techy that it does not seem bad to them. HELP them out here
> GIMP OpenUsability


Actually, I think that gimpshop has the same problem with multiple windows, I think that just the menus are changed.
Anyways, I just downloaded 2.3.5 and installed it. I has an option (under window management) called dock transient windows, and it takes care or the multi window problem of having to click each tab to bring each window up, and color management is there, too, so now I've nothing to bitch about.
Gimp 2.4 is gonna be a Photshop killer!  :Very Happy:

----------


## BLTicklemonster

I'm trying to install gimpshop, but I have to install darwinports, and to install darwinports, I have to install openssl. I did from synaptic. Darwinports said I didn't. I went and downloaded openssl from their site, and am installing it by hand, then I'll go back and try darwinports again, then gimpshop.

....okay got to have a perl parser, too. nice to have been warned of of all this....

Bam: 



```
configure: error: Package requirements (libart-2.0) were not met.
Consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if you
installed software in a non-standard prefix.

Alternatively you may set the LIBART_CFLAGS and LIBART_LIBS environment variables
to avoid the need to call pkg-config.  See the pkg-config man page for
more details.
```

I have 2.0.2


Forget it. 

See why Linux is still light years from being accepted by average people? It's not Linux, it's the people who write the programs, and don't make an effort to tell people exactly what is to be done to install them. Go ahead and flame me, I know some of you propellor heads are aghast at me for even saying that, "you should learn linux, stupid", yeah, right. I'm not the one writing stuff and forgetting to make it usable. Maybe Arnieboy can teach people how to make installers...

Oh well, it was worth a shot, but personally, my time is not worth this silliness. I already have photoshop, and know well enough how to use it. Why would I care to be bothered to do all of this (with many many many different programs, not just gimpshop, mind you) when I can tweak Windows and make it work fast and stable and not be bothered with all this? Trust me, there's no way I'd put out something and not cover all the bases when writing an installation guide. 

My rant for the moment is done.

Now to seriously consider if Ubuntu is really worth having, as I've run into this type of problem way too often. I have several projects I'm working on, and trying to get ubuntu to work the way I want it to is taking up way too much of my time. Surely one day all of this will maybe be fixed, but until then, I'm afraid Ubuntu is just a curiousity better left (as with all linux distros) to people who already know it, or have time to waste learning it.

I lied, I stil had ranting to do.

----------


## MetalMusicAddict

The rant doesnt match the sig man. "Goodbye Windows, hello freedom!!!  :Smile: "

I do understand the rant though. Ive often been driven mad by some of the linux ways. We have to understand though that most apps we love to use arent done by major co. like Adobe.

In the end we have to _want_ to switch. I cant give up yet on my CS2. I paid too much damn money.  :Smile:

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> The rant doesnt match the sig man. "Goodbye Windows, hello freedom!!! "
> 
> I do understand the rant though. Ive often been driven mad by some of the linux ways. We have to understand though that most apps we love to use arent done by major co. like Adobe.
> 
> In the end we have to _want_ to switch. I cant give up yet on my CS2. I paid too much damn money.


Oh, right, sorry. Changed, and I'll be reclaiming my 80 gig hard drive to use for a spare drive for windows apps. It was fun, but a total waste of time.

----------


## kakashi

like i said my part in this DISCUSSION was useless since i only defend gimp. i did use photoshop in a course my school offered us so while i have used it i can't say i have used it much or remember much. 
have fun using pixel if you like it. or photoshop. i will stay FREE for now.

----------


## nighthawk39

Adobe Photoshop is hands down the best software available.  There is no denying it.  I used GIMP for about 6 months before I got into Photoshop and Photoshop makes it loads easier to do simple things.  Plus it can do lots more.

----------


## kperkins

> like i said my part in this DISCUSSION was useless since i only defend gimp. i did use photoshop in a course my school offered us so while i have used it i can't say i have used it much or remember much. 
> have fun using pixel if you like it. or photoshop. i will stay FREE for now.


I'm with you on that.  I use Gimp, and Love it, but know that it can be better.  I used Photoshop for years, and never even tried to use it with Wine, after I deleted my Windows for good.
But this wasn't a thread about Photoshop, it was a thread about Pixel, and I say hurrah! for Pixel, and the developer who is taking the time to port it to different OSes, even though he isn't opening it up.  It is buggy, and it is beta, but it has some features that I'd love to see in Gimp.  And I'd pay the $70 (or whatever it was) if I could get it working on my system, without crashing every few minutes.

----------


## jozmak

I have a feeling that the pixel project goes to nowhere. It is a decade old and still hasn't reached a stable release. Recently, someone asked the developer about pixel tutorials. And it is incredible that after having been in development for so long, pixel had no tutorials. The same thing with documentation. If you add to this the 60 registered users, he could attract during this period, it becomes pretty obvious that the developer hit the plateau. I hope, he realizes this and releases pixel for the open source community soon.
On the Gimp:
I am hoping that at some point adventurous developers come along and fork the program. After all, it needs only a modern interface; but don't expect this from the current developers because they are so stubborn like the donkey of that mythological figure whose name is on the tip of my tongue but I cannot spit out..you know the guy with the hay...
I also follow the Gimp usability project, where everybody is frustrated because of the procrastinating developers. Many usability experts have already resigned from the project and I think, others will follow soon. 
So let's hope that xara for Linux will be out soon because, sadly, that will be the only professional quality graphic application available for graphic artist on the Linux platform. 

jozmak

----------


## angrykeyboarder

> hello all,
> 
> I came across a programmer the other day, and as i cant use GIMP, as it just stresses me out just trying to do simple things, i know my GIMP comments will prompt a reaction from people, but i just wont to say in my defense, i tried many many times to use it but the user interface and interaction is not user-friendly, click here and there then click here and here then once again...


When it comes to image editing software, I'm the village idiot. I run Paint Shop Pro 9, PhotoImpact 10, Photoshop CS10 AND The GIMP on Windows. On Linux I run The GIMP and Krita I'm still trying to adjust to Krita).

Photoshop is overkill and complicated for non-pros. Paint Shop Pro is a nice balance between overly simplified and overly-complex. I've used it for years.

PhotoImpact is much like Paint Shop Pro but it has a few features I like that PSP does not and vice-versa.

The GIMP was difficult for me to pick up at first, but honestly I find myself going to it first when I'm running Windows and naturally the same is true in Linux. 

Now, if you want something more Photoshop-like that isn't shareware or commercial, you might take a look at.

http://freshmeat.net/projects/gimpshop/.

I've not tried it myself, but then, I find Photoshop mostly difficult, so I rarely use it anyway. Therefore, I have no need for a Photoshop-like open source application.  :Smile: .  The plain old GIMP 2.x is just fine.

YMMV

----------


## chinaski

I did not try Pixel and I won't. 

I am pretty satisfied with The Gimp and yes, coming from Photoshop Gimp GUI it's not what you would like to see at first, but now that I am used to it I like it and find floating panels much more useful than single window.

I agree it's a good thing to have choice, and have no problem paying for software, but I am not keen to install non open source apps on my GNU/Linux box.

----------


## factotum218

meh, use what you want, i float in between gimp, inkscape, and photoshop 7 on my linux box.
Otherwise pretty much just just a text editor for writing markup and style-sheets. And yes, photoshop 7 on ubuntu

----------


## curuxz

Gimp beats photoshop once you give over the brainpower to learn it. This pixel crap, paying for a beta? wtf get this spam off can the mods step in here, no one is going to pay for something thats worse than the open source alternatives this is just an advert tread!!!

And don't you dare justify your advert by saying look at Vmware, because that is a company that gives a working product that is the best in its feild and worth the money, This advert is for a beta that is inferior and unstable. 

Edit: Removed personal remark.

----------


## abs

> Gimp beats photoshop once you give over the brainpower to learn it. This pixel crap, paying for a beta? wtf get this spam off can the mods step in here, no one is going to pay for something thats worse than the open source alternatives this is just an advert tread!!!
> 
> And don't you dare justify your advert by saying look at Vmware, because that is a company that gives a working product that is the best in its feild and worth the money, This advert is for a beta that is inferior and unstable. The closed source issue has nothing to do with it, your doing the same as advertising ms paint in a photoshop forum if you get flamed its your own stupid fault!



Edit: Removed personal remark.

----------


## M3ta7h3ad

lol not sure about wanting pixel. But if I can buy a trial version of that girl..

PHWOAR!!!!!  :Very Happy:

----------


## mlomker

> lol not sure about wanting pixel. But if I can buy a trial version of that girl..


This is a long thread and I don't care to close it over a couple recent posts.  Please make posts about the product and not each other.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Pixel is pretty cool, psp and photoshop are pretty cool. mspaint is a joke. You'd think that Moft would have at least beefed it up a bit.

Anyway, I like gimp just fine now, I just wish it were all in one window (though if you think about it, your desktop can be that window) with everything where it can be found. 

One problem I'm having in gimp is finding levels and saturation and such. Like if I have an image that's too dark or whatever, I have yet to find where to use levels to get it where I want it. I know it has a function like that, because I could swear I saw a reference to it somewhere. Rt click on the image, go to... and bam, can't find anything. Anybody know where that is?

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> On Linux I run The GIMP and Krita I'm still trying to adjust to Krita).


And how would one get krita if one didn't want to install koffice?

----------


## aysiu

> mspaint is a joke.


 It's not a joke. It's for very simple needs, and it doesn't take as long to load as Photoshop or GIMP. 




> You'd think that Moft would have at least beefed it up a bit.


 I agree with this, though. Kolourpaint is a lot like MSPaint but far more sophisticated.

----------


## abs

> This is a long thread and I don't care to close it over a couple recent posts.  Please make posts about the product and not each other.



sorry about the comments,  :Wink: 

just giving as good as i get.  :Smile: 

anyhow, back to the main subject. Pixle, gimp, and photoshop showdown,  :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## Knomefan

> And how would one get krita if one didn't want to install koffice?


Just a thought, but what about apt-get install krita?

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> Just a thought, but what about apt-get install krita?


smartaleck.

lol thanks, duh.

----------


## kperkins

> Pixel is pretty cool, psp and photoshop are pretty cool. mspaint is a joke. You'd think that Moft would have at least beefed it up a bit.
> 
> Anyway, I like gimp just fine now, I just wish it were all in one window (though if you think about it, your desktop can be that window) with everything where it can be found. 
> 
> One problem I'm having in gimp is finding levels and saturation and such. Like if I have an image that's too dark or whatever, I have yet to find where to use levels to get it where I want it. I know it has a function like that, because I could swear I saw a reference to it somewhere. Rt click on the image, go to... and bam, can't find anything. Anybody know where that is?


Right click the pic (or from the menus at the top) choose Tools > Color Tools > Levels (or Saturation)
In the development branch (as of 2.3.5--which I'm running, as well as 2.2.8 ) colors have their own menu, instead of being buried in the tools menu.  (Menus in general are much easier to navigate.)

----------


## kperkins

I would pay for pixel, if, I could get it to work without crashing every couple of minutes.  I has some features that I like better (ie. work better for me) than Gimp's version of the same.  But it still has many problems, and is too unusable for a release candidate.

----------


## bobp0303

> ...One problem I'm having in gimp is finding levels and saturation and such. Like if I have an image that's too dark or whatever, I have yet to find where to use levels to get it where I want it. I know it has a function like that, because I could swear I saw a reference to it somewhere. Rt click on the image, go to... and bam, can't find anything. Anybody know where that is?


Tools/Color Tools took me right to levels and saturation -- I agree with you about both the learning curve and Gimp being worth it in the end.  Of course, in my case a lot of the learning curve is due to this being my first serious image manipulation tool!  :Smile: 

(I'm using Gimp 2.2.8, in case you can't find the tools where I said I found them)
Bob.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Bingo, thanks!

----------


## pelle.k

> please change the second screen shot as well. i wanna look at the interface but i can't since the hot naked (well 99% naked anyways )chick keeps getting in the way. 
> do you think i can open that in school
> 
> 
> 
> the freaking point is not what you can do with a skin but how badly it reflects on you if that image opens in the library or in school or at work.
> also don't even talk about what someone might do with a bit of skin since clearly you weren't DOING anything modifying a girls picture *wink wink


HAHAHA! LOL

Get a grip man. I'm sorry but thats just hilarious!
What country do you live in anyway? What school? What universe!? Trust me, if people will think less of you for browsing that second screenshot, man i would seriously consider moving somwhere else...
It's not the "freaking" 60s anymore.

----------


## snowjunkie

> Thanks!  It doesn't come in deb, so I'm running alien on it right now...I'm excited


Section 2.1 of the following page seems to have a link to a deb for GimpShop.

http://linux.suramya.com/tutorials/Install_GIMPShop/

It's not clear what version of the Gimp code base that GimpShop uses, or if it is updated as Gimp updates become available...

----------


## eriqk

> Anyway, I like gimp just fine now, I just wish it were all in one window (though if you think about it, your desktop can be that window) with everything where it can be found.


Which, I suspect, is kind of the point.
On MacOS, most programs with floating windows behave like this. The desktop is your workspace. The Gnome and Gimp way of working is different in that on MacOS, the menus are always at the top of the screen (I believe KDE has this too, to an extent).
With multiple desktops, which Mac users have to do without, this isn't really a problem. Put Gimp on one desktop, Inkskape on another, the internet stuff on yet another one, &c.

Groet, Erik

----------


## super

do either of these gimp alternatives have debian packages as yet? i really would like to try them out. especially gimp-shop.  :Confused:  

as for gimp, it's the program that i currently use. but the multiple windows make task switching a complete pain in the ****.

----------


## ardchoille

GIMP too hard to learn? I love the gimp. It took me a little while to learn it, but it's much better than paying for closed source software and I can't stand shareware.

----------


## super

> do either of these gimp alternatives have debian packages as yet? i really would like to try them out. especially gimp-shop.  
> 
> as for gimp, it's the program that i currently use. but the multiple windows make task switching a complete pain in the ****.


EDIT: nevermind, i missed snowjunkie's post.

----------


## PhilOSparta

Wow, the thread had a lot to say.  I have been using the GIMP for well over a year and I don't think there is a replacement for the GIMP for me.  Pixel, eat your heart out. :Wink:  

 As a member of two photo clubs, I try to get other photographers interested in the GIMP as an alternative to PhotoShop(PS).  Everyone else is using MS whatever and even though the GIMP has a version for their OSs, they arn't interested. 

 I believe that most people would "rather fight than switch". :Smile:  

People have a tendency to stick with what they first learn.   Almost every printer, scanner and camera comes with a skinny version of PS.
Purchase a photography mag and see how many PS articles are in it.
Enough said.

Keep on Grokking (The GIMP)!

BTW  64Bit version is great.

----------


## kakashi

for those ppl who don't like a floating windows concept and would like a more a photoshop like behavior you can try out the latest gimp 2.3.6. it as a docking type feature does allows  you to control the windows aat the same time. 
here is a .deb for it. 
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=114213

or you can compile it from source

----------


## jeff--

I still use photoshop on windows because I don't want to have to learn something new, but Imight have to try Pixel, looks more similar to PS than GIMP does.

----------


## Krigl

> please change the second screen shot as well. i wanna look at the interface but i can't since the hot naked (well 99% naked anyways )chick keeps getting in the way. 
> do you think i can open that in school
> 
> 
> 
> the freaking point is not what you can do with a skin but how badly it reflects on you if that image opens in the library or in school or at work.
> also don't even talk about what someone might do with a bit of skin since clearly you weren't DOING anything modifying a girls picture *wink wink


Well the girl is obviously typical example of Photoshop Hottie, i.e. you take standard model and modify it - colour of skin, lights'n'shades etc. That's normal with model's pics. It's too late, dunno how the chick looked before putting interface in front of her but it looks she has a swimmingsuit, though minimalistic, so what's going on. At least she's not handcuffed and chained like the girl in my bash. Wait for the screenshot. Anyway, would you complain if he'd modifying guns pics? Would that be better than sexy girl (no offense, but I'm always curious)?
Btw. don't be ashamed in library, people there are used for much harder pornography,e.g. Microsoft logo.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> Well the girl is obviously typical example of Photoshop Hottie, i.e. you take standard model and modify it - colour of skin, lights'n'shades etc. That's normal with model's pics. It's too late, dunno how the chick looked before putting interface in front of her but it looks she has a swimmingsuit, though minimalistic, so what's going on. At least she's not handcuffed and chained like the girl in my bash. Wait for the screenshot. Anyway, would you complain if he'd modifying guns pics? Would that be better than sexy girl (no offense, but I'm always curious)?
> Btw. don't be ashamed in library, people there are used for much harder pornography,e.g. Microsoft logo.



What's with the sarcasm? Dude made a request, honor it. Why do you people think if someone is asking you to do something, that they are trying to censor you? I have my own little office at work, and if I have a picture of a woman who is pretty, but in a freaking overcoat, there's this one dumba** who will, if he sees it, make lude and immature remarks about her loudly, and everyone in the office thinks ole Schroeder is in his office looking at pron. Perhaps the fellow has morons like that around him and doesn't want the attention? Maybe he's in a school environment, and wants to maintain some decorum? 

You people really blow my mind they way you are always looking to start some intellectual debate you overhead once, and think you are witty enough to carry it on. Well you aren't so stop it. This post wasn't even close to being something that should have drawn that kind of a response. 

Now show me the chick you're talking about!!!

----------


## kakashi

wow amazing thread. among the last 4 posts only one had anything to contribute and that was ignored for a sarcasmed remark. amazing. well i am off to unsubscirbe from this thread. by all. 
last word. it seems most ppl woes are the mutl-windows display that causes you to lose windows. well the newest versions have a solution to that. here  a link to a thread with a link to a deb package of gimp 2.3.6. try it and see. enjoy.
edit. here the link itself
http://rapidshare.de/files/10635040/..._i386.deb.html

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> wow amazing thread. among the last 4 posts only one had anything to contribute and that was ignored for a sarcasmed remark. amazing. well i am off to unsubscirbe from this thread. by all. 
> last word. it seems most ppl woes are the mutl-windows display that causes you to lose windows. well the newest versions have a solution to that. here  a link to a thread with a link to a deb package of gimp 2.3.6. try it and see. enjoy.
> edit. here the link itself
> http://rapidshare.de/files/10635040/..._i386.deb.html


I mean to thank you for that, but I got bent out of shape. My bad. 

Thanks for the link.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> for those ppl who don't like a floating windows concept and would like a more a photoshop like behavior you can try out the latest gimp 2.3.6. it as a docking type feature does allows  you to control the windows aat the same time. 
> here is a .deb for it. 
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=114213
> 
> or you can compile it from source





```
bill@ubuntu:~$ sudo dpkg -i gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb
(Reading database ... 132262 files and directories currently installed.)
Preparing to replace gimp 2.2.8-2ubuntu6 (using gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb) ...
Unpacking replacement gimp ...
dpkg: error processing gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb (--install):
 trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/gimp/2.0/environ/pygimp.env', which is also in package gimp-python
dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
 gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb
```

What am I doing wrong?

----------


## kakashi

> ```
> bill@ubuntu:~$ sudo dpkg -i gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb
> (Reading database ... 132262 files and directories currently installed.)
> Preparing to replace gimp 2.2.8-2ubuntu6 (using gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb) ...
> Unpacking replacement gimp ...
> dpkg: error processing gimp_2.3.6-1_i386.deb (--install):
>  trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/gimp/2.0/environ/pygimp.env', which is also in package gimp-python
> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
> Errors were encountered while processing:
> ...


well this one gimp package actually contains and replaces all the packages like libgimp,gimp etc. 

i had the same erroe  as you. 
try this 
sudo  apt-get remove --purge gimp-python
and if that does not work
 apt-get remove --purge gimp gimp-data libgimp2.0

that sould do it.
edit
oh yeah and thanks for the support.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Yay, I've succeeded in removing Gimp, but I can't install the newer one!


```
checking for GLIB - version >= 2.8.0...
*** 'pkg-config --modversion glib-2.0' returned 2.8.0, but GLIB (2.8.3)
*** was found! If pkg-config was correct, then it is best
*** to remove the old version of GLib. You may also be able to fix the error
*** by modifying your LD_LIBRARY_PATH enviroment variable, or by editing
*** /etc/ld.so.conf. Make sure you have run ldconfig if that is
*** required on your system.
*** If pkg-config was wrong, set the environment variable PKG_CONFIG_PATH
*** to point to the correct configuration files
no
configure: error: Test for GLIB failed. See the file 'INSTALL' for help.
```

So I look in install, and I see I need glib, gtk, etc. upgraded.

So I go try glib first. 2.8.5. It installs fine, I try to ldconfig it, but can't for some reason that escapes me, but suffice it to say I don't think it likes me.

So I try to install gtk-2.8.9



```
checking for GLIB - version >= 2.7.1...
*** 'pkg-config --modversion glib-2.0' returned 2.8.0, but GLIB (2.8.3)
*** was found! If pkg-config was correct, then it is best
*** to remove the old version of GLib. You may also be able to fix the error
*** by modifying your LD_LIBRARY_PATH enviroment variable, or by editing
*** /etc/ld.so.conf. Make sure you have run ldconfig if that is
*** required on your system.
*** If pkg-config was wrong, set the environment variable PKG_CONFIG_PATH
*** to point to the correct configuration files
no
configure: error:
*** GLIB 2.7.1 or better is required. The latest version of
*** GLIB is always available from ftp://ftp.gtk.org/pub/gtk/.
```

There is no /etc/ld/so.conf, and I don't know about LD_LIBRARY_PATH or the other one...

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Okay, I have a GNU image manipulation program. (was looking for gimp, koff koff, and was like oh noes)

So what is this docking that I hear about in this very quickly loading little powerhouse I have now?

----------


## kakashi

> Okay, I have a GNU image manipulation program. (was looking for gimp, koff koff, and was like oh noes)
> 
> So what is this docking that I hear about in this very quickly loading little powerhouse I have now?


yeah the quick loading is right. it loads faster than gedit does . lol.
file>>preferences>>window manegment. select the options here. 

ps. did your glib problem fix??
i checked and i have glib-2.8.3

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Opps, sorry, Kak, I gave up on it.

----------


## jsmidt

I prefere gimp.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

Hello there,

Well, I find Pixel32 pretty interesting. It has alot of features that you don't find in many apps besides PhotoShop, unfortunately not all of them are fully functional yet, and the brush engine is not the most robust. The GIMP has a nice set of tools, but the lack of non-destructive editing and an alot more flexible brush engine make texture/mattepainting and in general digital painting tedious. Also I'm not able to paint on very large documents in the GIMP without a major slowdown while I can still paint fine in PhotoShop on the same machine. Also one thing that bothers me a bit about the GIMP is that its developers are rather defensive and partly ignorant to any input from users. I find their attitute is the minority, because alot of OSS developers are very interested in user feedback and strife to make their application best usable for everybody (Ubuntu is one of the prime examples). 

Anyway, I hope that P32 is able to maintain development, since it has such strong similarities to PhotoShop. If we all recall, Macromedia was sued by Adobe a while back and we see what happened to them.

----------


## abs

> Hello there,
> 
> Well, I find Pixel32 pretty interesting. It has alot of features that you don't find in many apps besides PhotoShop, unfortunately not all of them are fully functional yet, and the brush engine is not the most robust. The GIMP has a nice set of tools, but the lack of non-destructive editing and an alot more flexible brush engine make texture/mattepainting and in general digital painting tedious. Also I'm not able to paint on very large documents in the GIMP without a major slowdown while I can still paint fine in PhotoShop on the same machine. Also one thing that bothers me a bit about the GIMP is that its developers are rather defensive and partly ignorant to any input from users. I find their attitute is the minority, because alot of OSS developers are very interested in user feedback and strife to make their application best usable for everybody (Ubuntu is one of the prime examples). 
> 
> Anyway, I hope that P32 is able to maintain development, since it has such strong similarities to PhotoShop. If we all recall, Macromedia was sued by Adobe a while back and we see what happened to them.


true,

I think GIMP has come along way but it has not changed much, in terms of UI, if there is such a big split between users, then surly that acts as a big indicator to how the app is preforming,

what i hear from users all the time is that GIMP's UI is diffuclt and i have lost the number of times i come across this, developers need to take this on board and make a good App (GIMP) a greate one.

----------


## centered effect

I have not tried Pixel or Krita yet, but I may in the next few days.  Pixel looks like a good Photoshop alternative that *seems* to be much easier to use than the Gimp. Krita looks good with a simplier work flow than the alternatives.  It will be good to test them both.

I keep my Windows machine for my design work and game design/editing (Adobe CS suite, Macromedia, Quark, Lightwave, GTKradiant, etc) because I feel there are no Linux replacements that work easily for me (or stable at times).  

To add to the Pixel/Gimp/Photoshop/whatever debate.  I think any person should use what they are comforable with using.  I have been using Photoshop since version 5.5 and I am acustomed to it.  Using Gimp as an alternative was hard, but it lacked the work flow that I was used to, and it didn't have alot of web elements that PS and Image Ready have (granted Adobe may have spoiled everyone with that feature it is a good feature to have).

----------


## BLTicklemonster

To me, the biggest and baddest and best thing they could do to gimp would be to make creating 3d effects with text as simple as it is in photoshop. I have a 37 page tutorial printed out sitting here on my desk on how to make 3d effects with text in gimp.

(then they can make it like gimpshop  :Wink:  )

----------


## anacron

well at least im going to try pixel, looks nice and simple! - I've tryed gimpshop, but I think it's even worse than the original gimp(and im not really saying that gimp is bad), gimpshop isn't working because, changin' the names in menu doesn't change the inteface of program, and keyboard shortcuts doesn't make that either.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

Woo hoo, found some plugins and using fu script, I can make nice 3d fonts. muahahaha. 

Now, last thing before they make it photoshop, lol, why are my images no where near as clean as in photoshop? I can take the same image and open it in the two of them, and the gimp image has no where near the clarity.


no wait, wrong forum. Sorry. (if anyone has suggestions, though, post away. and the k program totally stinks, btw)

----------


## blud

> I came across a programme the other day, and as i cant use GIMP, as it just stresses me out just trying to do simple things, i know my GIMP comments will prompt a reaction from people, but i just wont to say in my defence, i tried many many times to use it but the usr interface and interaction is not user-friendly, click here and there then click here and here then once again...


I'm liking this a substitute for photoshop that isn't GIMP I'm sorry but it really iritates me when I ask people what an alternative to photoshop isa for Linux (I'm only a n00b) and the first reply is always GIMP I've been using GIMP for a little while in Windows and you try to explain to them that you require photoshop as well as GIMP and people don't understand that. What I don't like is the price tag sorry but that's one of the reasons I'm heading towards Linux and Open Source software am sick of paying a fortune for software I've spent more on software than what I have on the 3 computers I have sitting in my house I reckon.

You might like also to try Gimpshop yes it's still GIMP but it has a Photoshop interface have been using this in Windows alot easier than the standard interface I can actually understand it. the website is
www.gimpshop.net         sorry not sure how to make it a link
the only downside is I'm not sure that it will work in Ubuntu as it is an RPM application not a DEB.


OK Sorry this post now seems a bit pointless as now having gone back and read the other post it has already been bought up I thought I'd use the spoace to post a reply on what I thought of the behavior and some of the posts in this thread have half it was just critisism for him giving people an alternative to GIMP that wasn't Opensource I believe that sort if thing is not required

PS Gee there was alot of complaing about this thread wasn't there I thought the whole idea of Linux was "Free" as kin freedom of choice not free beer his freedom of choice is to use Pixel ok you rchoice is to use GIMP doesn't mean you have to moputh of at him because he uses a different program than you REMEMBER FREEDOM OF CHOICE use whatever you wish if you want to pay for your software that's fine if you want to use Open Source that's fine to but don't critisise people coz they use a different program to you.

----------


## Delvien

Looks too much like a photoshop rip off.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

??? It may be set up to keep everything handy, but I dont' see it looking like a photoshop rip off. But then you might, so there's no arguement there, you say tomato, I say V8. Anyway, the image crispness. As stated, I notice that Gimp isn't near as clean as photoshop. Is there some resolution fix I can make to make my images cleaner? I can take a 800x600 bmp in photoshop and make it a jpg at 100k and it's clear, I take the same image in gimp, and it's not clear. What can I do?

----------


## BLTicklemonster

With GIMP


With PHOTOSHOP


(Yeah, we lost. Prolly shoulda picked one where we won)

----------


## abs

> I'm liking this a substitute for photoshop that isn't GIMP I'm sorry but it really iritates me when I ask people what an alternative to photoshop isa for Linux (I'm only a n00b) and the first reply is always GIMP I've been using GIMP for a little while in Windows and you try to explain to them that you require photoshop as well as GIMP and people don't understand that. What I don't like is the price tag sorry but that's one of the reasons I'm heading towards Linux and Open Source software am sick of paying a fortune for software I've spent more on software than what I have on the 3 computers I have sitting in my house I reckon.
> 
> You might like also to try Gimpshop yes it's still GIMP but it has a Photoshop interface have been using this in Windows alot easier than the standard interface I can actually understand it. the website is
> www.gimpshop.net         sorry not sure how to make it a link
> the only downside is I'm not sure that it will work in Ubuntu as it is an RPM application not a DEB.
> 
> 
> OK Sorry this post now seems a bit pointless as now having gone back and read the other post it has already been bought up I thought I'd use the spoace to post a reply on what I thought of the behavior and some of the posts in this thread have half it was just critisism for him giving people an alternative to GIMP that wasn't Opensource I believe that sort if thing is not required
> 
> PS Gee there was alot of complaing about this thread wasn't there I thought the whole idea of Linux was "Free" as kin freedom of choice not free beer his freedom of choice is to use Pixel ok you rchoice is to use GIMP doesn't mean you have to moputh of at him because he uses a different program than you REMEMBER FREEDOM OF CHOICE use whatever you wish if you want to pay for your software that's fine if you want to use Open Source that's fine to but don't critisise people coz they use a different program to you.


I never relised that this post was gona get soo much attention, but hay, its all good, its freedom, freedom to post, freedom to review, question and rant if you need to, its FREEDOM. FREEDOM OF CHOICE....  :Dancing:  

I feel like brave-heart now  :Wink:

----------


## abs

> With GIMP
> 
> 
> With PHOTOSHOP
> 
> 
> (Yeah, we lost. Prolly shoulda picked one where we won)



Photoshop is a clear winner in this INSTANCE, with these comparisons, and its not just subtle difference, its too clear,  :Smile:   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## dudus

> I came across a programme the other day, and as i cant use GIMP, as it just stresses me out just trying to do simple things, i know my GIMP comments will prompt a reaction from people, but i just wont to say in my defence, i tried many many times to use it but the usr interface and interaction is not user-friendly, click here and there then click here and here then once again...


The new version of the gimp that will be in Dapper has designed it's menus as everyone complains about it.

The multi-window mode gimp works is very discussed either. And the developers seem to think it's better.

There is a GIMP verssion called GIMPshop that is the GIMP moded to look like Photoshop. The menus are in the same place and the documents share the same window. As you see it's no way an issue to trash the gimp.

----------


## Delvien

I tried out the well, trial, and im suprised on the performance. Its very fast, very intuative. But the 100 dollar price tag is a downer...

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> The new version of the gimp that will be in Dapper has designed it's menus as everyone complains about it.
> 
> The multi-window mode gimp works is very discussed either. And the developers seem to think it's better.
> 
> There is a GIMP verssion called GIMPshop that is the GIMP moded to look like Photoshop. The menus are in the same place and the documents share the same window. As you see it's no way an issue to trash the gimp.


I had a friend named Chris Morrow from Sao Paulo, we called him Julio, back n the 80s in Atlanta. He was an art student. Great guy. I wonder what ever became of him... I had a hard time following his english, too. So what you are saying is that the gimp in dapper is redesigned, and is like the gimpshop? That would be nice! Can't wait to get dapper when it's ready for prime time! (don't worry, I have a hard time understanding everybody, you're doing okay)

----------


## abs

> The new version of the gimp that will be in Dapper has designed it's menus as everyone complains about it.
> 
> The multi-window mode gimp works is very discussed either. And the developers seem to think it's better.
> 
> There is a GIMP verssion called GIMPshop that is the GIMP moded to look like Photoshop. The menus are in the same place and the documents share the same window. As you see it's no way an issue to trash the gimp.


not quite sure what you mean dude, if your saying that dapper comes with something similor to GIMPshop then great, if not I think they need to strip out all the little icons in the menus in GIMP as it just confuses me, and just make a version of GIMP called GIMPTU, or something like that, anyways has veryone checked out the novel survy about what people ownt ported over to linux, and Photoshop seems to be at the top.  :Very Happy:

----------


## kaaredyret

Fanatics usually only have one answer to any complex question. How can a little freedom of choice annoy so many, and how can they believe that the answer to their need is the answer to anyones need. Scary. Fanatism.

Some guys REALLY need a girlfriend.

----------


## Delvien

After playing around with Pixel ive found that its just a nicer knock off to Photoshop, but sitll performs well, has some nice features, but not worth paying for... Specially since Gimp is free. and adobe PS is free *cough *cough if you are that kind of user *cough *cough.

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> After playing around with Pixel ive found that its just a nicer knock off to Photoshop, but sitll performs well, has some nice features, but not worth paying for... Specially since Gimp is free. and adobe PS is free *cough *cough if you are that kind of user *cough *cough.


I have CS, which one do you have? lol

----------


## dudus

> I had a friend named Chris Morrow from Sao Paulo, we called him Julio, back n the 80s in Atlanta. He was an art student. Great guy. I wonder what ever became of him... I had a hard time following his english, too. So what you are saying is that the gimp in dapper is redesigned, and is like the gimpshop? That would be nice! Can't wait to get dapper when it's ready for prime time! (don't worry, I have a hard time understanding everybody, you're doing okay)


Ok I didn't make myself clear.

What I meant is that the new version of gimp in dapper will have menu structure improved.

And that there is another paralel version of gimp alled gimpshop that has the menus identical to photoshop.

That's 2 redesigns.... Ok it's sounds yet more confusing now. :Think:

----------


## BLTicklemonster

No, that's better. The thing about english is, the less sense it makes, the more sense you make. lol

Anyway, thanks for the input. I'm upgrading to dapper now. (not because of this post, just thought I'd throw that in)

----------


## dudus

> No, that's better. The thing about english is, the less sense it makes, the more sense you make. lol
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the input. I'm upgrading to dapper now. (not because of this post, just thought I'd throw that in)


Believe it or not I did an english course a couple of year ago. Useless thing.

I'm very excited about desit-upgrading either. But I'll try to hold myself till the beta release in march.

Good luck

----------


## abs

> Fanatics usually only have one answer to any complex question. How can a little freedom of choice annoy so many, and how can they believe that the answer to their need is the answer to anyones need. Scary. Fanatism.
> 
> Some guys REALLY need a girlfriend.


true said, How things have spiralled out of control  :Wink:  , its all good, anyways at least now, people looking for Photoshop alternative can find this forum and see there some light at the end of the tunnel.

you know, if Adobe just port there amazing packages over to Linux then none of these arguments would even be necessary.  :Wink: 

or we could just dream of flying cows,  :Mr. Green:

----------


## dudus

> true said, How things have spiralled out of control  , its all good, anyways at least now, people looking for Photoshop alternative can find this forum and see there some light at the end of the tunnel.
> 
> you know, if Adobe just port there amazing packages over to Linux then none of these arguments would even be necessary. 
> 
> or we could just dream of flying cows,


Photoshop will allways be proprietary, even if they port it to linux. This is a plus for gimp (or PIXEL whatever). Only a designer with especific needs would rather buy the expenssive photoshop than use Gimp.

For most people an image processor like gimp is far beyond they needs.

I'd say that I miss Ilustrator more than I miss Photoshop. But that's just because Inkscape is still an early beta. With some time and some GPL magic Inkscape will do the jop as Gimp does today.

----------


## abs

> Photoshop will allways be proprietary, even if they port it to linux. This is a plus for gimp (or PIXEL whatever). Only a designer with especific needs would rather buy the expenssive photoshop than use Gimp.
> 
> For most people an image processor like gimp is far beyond they needs.
> 
> I'd say that I miss Ilustrator more than I miss Photoshop. But that's just because Inkscape is still an early beta. With some time and some GPL magic Inkscape will do the jop as Gimp does today.


I know photoshop will stay proprietary, I dont mean that Adobe should make photoshop Opensource, that would be crazy, If GIMP is such an over kill for most users then they should make a cut down version or at least one that can be easly used by first time users,

I bet that if you stuck a new user at computer with GIMP and one with Photoshop/Paintshop they will pick up photoshop quicker, It's not the functions of each programe all though GIMP is limited on sum, I am and have always been talking about the uesr interface.

anyways, I think i should  :Silenced:   cos I keep on talking  :Wink:

----------


## BLTicklemonster

I'm headed to take classes in adobe photoshop cs starting tonight. I wonder if I'll learn anything useful?

----------


## dudus

> I bet that if you stuck a new user at computer with GIMP and one with Photoshop/Paintshop they will pick up photoshop quicker, It's not the functions of each programe all though GIMP is limited on sum, I am and have always been talking about the uesr interface.


Have you tried gimpshop?

It's a gimp interface alternative that tries to mimic photoshop.
It would be easier to use gimpshop than gimp for the photoshopers.

check some screenshots here.

I disagree with you when it comes to new users. I find both interfaces intersting. They have different aproaches. Hard to say witch one is better.




> anyways, I think i should   cos I keep on talking


Talking is good! :Smile:

----------


## alfonz

abs, Thanks for the heads up. 

I've been a photoshop user for years and some of you might agree that going from PS to Gimp is a bit confusing. I have no dout in my mind that Gimp is as good as everyone says, however I have no problem paying $30-40 for software that has the same display and has the potential to be as feature full as PS. Its a matter of personal choice.

Besides $30-40 vs. $300 windows + $600 Adobe PS hmmmm 

I'll take option #1 to go please  :Very Happy: 

Cheers!

Gimp Shop does look interesting, I think I'll try it out

----------


## alfonz

> I'm headed to take classes in adobe photoshop cs starting tonight. I wonder if I'll learn anything useful?


I've gone through those, it depends on your instructor and what he/she wants to teach you but its usualy the basics.

Best way is by trial and error and see what you can come up with using what is available to you. You'd be suprized what you can come up with.

----------


## JuanC

> I think he's working on a 64 bit version, but remember he's one man, and he's putting out at least 3 other 32 bit versions, by himself.(which is a good argument for open sourcing it--or at least getting some help, of some kind) (and how does Gimp do on amd64s, by the way?)


Any update about an Amd64 native version of Pixel?

----------


## abs

> abs, Thanks for the heads up. 
> 
> I've been a photoshop user for years and some of you might agree that going from PS to Gimp is a bit confusing. I have no dout in my mind that Gimp is as good as everyone says, however I have no problem paying $30-40 for software that has the same display and has the potential to be as feature full as PS. Its a matter of personal choice.
> 
> Besides $30-40 vs. $300 windows + $600 Adobe PS hmmmm 
> 
> I'll take option #1 to go please 
> 
> Cheers!
> ...



no probs, and in comparison 30$-40$ seems a hell of a lot better,  :Wink: 
maybe adobe will port photoshop over after Novell's survy, although thats a long shot.

one day ay..... I would'nt hold my breath  :Sad: .....

----------


## Koba

yo, i personally want to thank you for introducing me to this program. this is very talented, and is great for me to use my graphics on Ubuntu. when this thread was made, there was no "this is better than Gimp, nananana!", all he was doing was showing a good peice of work to the community of people who like the way photoshop is layed out. I could care less which is "better" photoshop or gimp, they are both very different, they both have great capabilities, and they both have thier share of users. fighting over which is better is very childish, and i feel that half this thread was totally off topic. so i would like to thank you again for this peice of software, and please, go easy on the flaming.

----------


## Sirin

> #### This is a TRAIL version, and not FREEWARE/opensource ####


So... how do you work a "trail version"?  :Confused:

----------


## abs

> So... how do you work a "trail version"?


hay,


just download Pixel for the website and use it, its a DEMO really, i dont think its limited, its just cool to try. I have the full version, waiting for a STABLE release  :Think:

----------


## buggzero

im a true and blue photoshop fan, infact that and some games are holding me back from deleting my winxp install.

The gimp so far, ive found usable, i havent done anything in as much detail and elaboration as i have in photoshop, but for a free open source software, its worked for me.

Im particularly interested in gimp shop, because all the features are there, its just like most people said, the user interface is like running naked through cornfield backwards.

I have to admit, Pixel looks awsome, and it does excite me to see that this could boost up the improvement to design programs. But it says 30 day trial and watermarks? bogus to me. Ill be keeping an eye on it, but linux is suppost to be consumer liberation, not the monopoly man trying to sneak through the back door.

----------


## GreySim

> So... how do you work a "trail version"?


 :Think:  

It only comes with tools that would be useful for editing nature pics.

 :Very Happy:

----------


## Swiss

> also i am not sure if that thumbnail should be on ubuntu forums. 
> i like many other read this from school, office and libraries and we sure as hell don't want even a hint a that stuff (do you see the extent of skin showing on that girl) on our screen. could not have taken a screen shot of something better.



Hear hear!

----------


## IYY

I read once about a mod that converts Gimp to be more like photoshop. Basically, just makes it all in one window, and rearranges the menus. Have you tried it?

----------


## abs

> Hear hear!



I thought that as well.  :Twisted Evil:   I guess that dude should go around ubuntu forums with closed eyes, one way to avoid pictures.

----------


## xrado

does anyone have GIMP development release deb packages. i tryed 2.3.6 on slackware and i can tell you its much user frendly and very stable. i cant work with 2.2.10 any more. There is new 2.3.7 version out now.

----------


## angrykeyboarder

> does anyone have GIMP development release deb packages. i tryed 2.3.6 on slackware and i can tell you its much user frendly and very stable. i cant work with 2.2.10 any more. There is new 2.3.7 version out now.


Welll you can either complie from source:

http://www.gimp.org/downloads/#mirrors

Or you might try Debian's Experimental Packages.

http://packages.debian.org/experimental/graphics/gimp

Try adding the Debian experimental distro to your sources.list file and then see if you can upgrade The GIMP without creating a mess.

deb http://[URL="http://www.debian.org/mirror/list"]DEBIAN-MIRROR[/URL]/debian experimental main

But don't blame me if your hard drive melts, your power supply shorts out and/or your monitor explodes, starting a huge fire that burns down your neighborhood.

----------


## kperkins

I have gimp 2.3.6 working on my computer, with no problems.  Loving it more than the 2.2 series.  The interface is getting better and better.

----------


## xrado

i added



```
deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian experimental main
```

to my source.list, but after sudo apt-get update i get :



```
W: GPG error: http://http.us.debian.org experimental Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 010908312D230C5F
W: You may want to run apt-get update to correct these problems
```

...where do i get this key, and where do i put it?

----------


## hap0

I just read through every post, and as yet have not seen the following points mentioned. So I will offer them in response to why I just found $32 dollars was not too much to spend toward Pixel:
Pixel supports CMYK, GIMP does not (any scribus using printer/publishers out there?).Photoshop experience is often listed as desirable by prospective employers.Pixel offers a close approximation to Photoshop experience (inexpensively) regardless of operating system.I tried Gimpshop early on and found it was an unsustainable one-time hack, which it will always remain unless the modification is ported into a localisation option for current GIMP development.
Cheers.

----------


## kaaredyret

> Some people like the GIMP, the open source community's answer to Adobe Photoshop, but a recent survey by Novell showed that Photoshop is one of the top three applications Linux users want ported to their platform, which indicates the GIMP may not be meeting the needs of Linux users. Designers' efforts to improve the GIMP have failed in the past. Maybe now is the time for a more radical approach.


http://software.newsforge.com/articl.../03/07/1813207

----------


## Jengu

The GIMP's UI sucks for new users. I don't want to have to use virtual desktops. and I don't want have to memorize key presses to draw a *line*.

That people are considering costly alternatives over a piece of free software says something about the usability of the latter...

KDE has Krita, but I haven't tried it. Maybe give it a shot.

----------


## mrgnash

Bah. All Gimp requires is a little persistence and adaptability. As a long-time Photoshop user, it took me about a week to get fully acclimated to Gimp's way of doing things -- thanks in large part to Grokking the Gimp and Gimptalk.com 

I'm not a professional designer or anything, but I think I can crank out pretty ok graphics and have no trouble using Gimp exclusively to do so. Some of its features are actually more intuitive than Photoshop, e.g: adjusting values such as brightness/contrast and hue/saturation per layer (Gimp has a seperate menu item for 'image' and 'layer') is more obvious than Photoshop, which can be a little confusing in this regard.

Of course, if you need to do something really uber, then Photoshop may be a requisite application. In that case, one could probably justify the price tag for the full suite; especially when you could claim the cost back on tax  :Smile:  But I'm betting few of us would be in that boat. The reality is that most people who parrot on about Photoshop being the only program that meets their needs, have obtained it illegally. Gimp is truly free and I think it's a pretty exceptional program given that fact.

----------


## jeremy

I don't know if I missed something, but I deleted pixel after half an hour, I couldn't take a programme with such a pathetic jpg optimization interface seriously.

----------


## Single

I think sooner or later, Krita will be the true opensource replacement of Photoshop.

----------


## dada1958

I use Photoshop 7 on my Mac, it's a legal license. I use the Gimp on my Ubuntu PC and I like the Gimp unless it lacks CMYK support but when you use it with Scribus that shouldn't be that big problem because Scribus has its own CMYK conversion.
What I really miss in the Gimp are actions.

----------


## colsinc

I helped with making the school yearbook for a number of years, and we used Photoshop and PageMaker (later InDesign)-all commercial Adobe apps, running on OS X.  Since leaving school, I've done a couple of similar jobs (for a different school).  I used the GIMP and Scribus, and didn't have too many troubles with the 'migration'.  

I do think commercial apps for linux are in general a good thing though - I'm a pov uni student so I doubt I would buy any - but for many businesses, Linux is out of the question as it won't run certain 'niche' commercial apps.  

closed source is not always the enemy.  Putting profits above the ideal of making good technology, *vendor lock-in tactics*, are.  That said, the open source ideology is truly magnificent.

thanks for telling us about it abs!

----------


## abs

I can only compair Krita to windows Native BMP editor, It looks like it would need a few years yet,

anyhow, I cant belive that my Post has made it into the news, Hora, I am a little star struck  :Wink: 

I am happy that we, the comunity have raised there voice over a subject that  everyone is passionate about. Image editting on linux. Gimp, Photoshop, pixel , which ever your prefrence maybe, It has showed that there is alot of disatisfaction with varios aspects. this disatisfaction should been seen as FEEDBACK, A programe should not take 1 week to learn. it should be easy to pick-up, has an easy to follow UI. stright forward functions.

if everyone thinks photoshop is great, ask your self why.  from the begging photoshop was easy to use, that said, one must not ignor any radical ideas.

I would like to see GIMP take bold and innovative steps and change its UI, it dose not have to be like photoshop, it needs to be easy to use. from the very first time you use it.

GIMP celebrated 10years not long ago. lets make sure the next few years bring about change and not more of the same old 10years.


my nagging is over..... for now  :Smile:

----------


## kperkins

The problem with Gimp and it's UI is that the developers don't seem to care what the users have to say about it. Users have been bitching about the UI since, well, since just about when it started being developed, I think, and the devlopers keep insisting that their way is best.  The 2.3.x series has addressed some of these issues (as well as CMYK support), but not all, or even most of them (the menus are definitely better, andtransient dock works ok, but not eactly like it should) . At this point, I think it would take a massive rewrite of Gimp to do something about the UI (maybe not, I've never really looked at the source code to see exactly what's going on)

----------


## abs

> The problem with Gimp and it's UI is that the developers don't seem to care what the users have to say about it. Users have been bitching about the UI since, well, since just about when it started being developed, I think, and the devlopers keep insisting that their way is best.  The 2.3.x series has addressed some of these issues (as well as CMYK support), but not all, or even most of them (the menus are definitely better, andtransient dock works ok, but not eactly like it should) . At this point, I think it would take a massive rewrite of Gimp to do something about the UI (maybe not, I've never really looked at the source code to see exactly what's going on)


it seems there is a general feeling that developers are, like you say not listening, I would find it hard if i was a developer, having a user bitching about the code i wrote, however, surly that this would be a big sign that I need to do things differently, Feedback is the key in all of this, developers need to interpret this feedback in the right way and act accordantly. its always been that way, the users command the market, well at least in the software world.

Great work by the GIMP developers, if only user feedback played a bigger part of it all.

never mind ay, if Photoshop does make the transition over to Linux, then this argument is setteld, as people would just get Photoshop, legal or *legal.



---

----------


## regeya

> Bah. All Gimp requires is a little persistence and adaptability.


So how's that GIMP LAB-space working for you?

----------


## mrgnash

> So how's that GIMP LAB-space working for you?


Never use it. Why would I?  :Confused:

----------


## pizzach

Meh.  Gimp and Photoshop both have their learning pitfalls.  I think more of the problems come from when you realize....I have to learn another huge image editing program!?!

I don't know what all you people mean by photoshop being single mode window.  On my mac it has a bunch of windows.  But they are a heck of a lot smarter than the GIMP ones. If you click another program they dissappear.  Also, they never get hidden below other windows.

----------


## takayuki

hello all,

i've been a mac user since os 7.5.3, way back in the dark ages of computing ('97).  i've used photoshop for nearly as long.  i create websites part time to supplement my income.

the other day a pc fell into my lap and suddenly i'm staring at the ubuntu interface and i like it.  i really like this os.  the more i use it and learn about it, the more i want to take my whole website mysql, php, photshop, text-wrangler, mac os-based web development process and move it to ubuntu.  

here's my, "can i make the move to ubuntu" thought process.

text editor: i can live without my favorite text editor, text wrangler, even though blue fish, imho, isn't as good.  it's good enough.

mysql and php: install on ubuntu is easier than os x.

web site testing: better on ubuntu.  i can install cross-over office and check my pages on ie6 for wintel no problems.

image editing:  on the mac i use photoshop 7.  image editing is my main obstacle to moving full-time to ubuntu.  I tested gimpshop and was impressed at the speed, etc., but i kept bumping into limitations, having to do workarounds to get things done.  a simple workaround for adding a drop shadow to text is fine if you have all the time in the world, but i don't.  i have to get it done quickly and move on to the next task.

(side note on gimpshop's interface.  it's fine as far as i'm concerned.  in the mac version of photoshop all the pallettes are individual windows.  i like it that way.  it's all i've ever known, so it's a non-issue.)

enter pixel.  it loads fast, has a great interface.  loved the speed.  it ain't bloated!  i could use it instantly without having to re-think things, or to figure out how to do things.  i just went into photoshop mode and started playing with it and fairly easily could get some things done.

*but* it is a bit buggy, especially dealing with text.  i don't think pixel is ready for prime-time yet.  i'm going to register, not b/c i'm going to put it to immediate use, but b/c i want pixel to succeed.  think of all the new ubuntu/linux users who could come on board b/c suddenly there wasn't the "lack of photoshop" issue stopping them.

this isn't about open source, or everything should be free, it's about making linux a viable option for everyone.  

takayuki

----------


## mrgnash

Yeah I don't know what the big deal is about having a single window interface. Back when I was using XP, I often wished that Photoshop had a multi-window interface similar to Gimp. I'm the sorta guy that likes to have multiple application windows present on the desktop all at once so I can easily switch/share data between them.

----------


## kperkins

> hello all,
> 
> i've been a mac user since os 7.5.3, way back in the dark ages of computing ('97).  i've used photoshop for nearly as long.  i create websites part time to supplement my income.
> 
> the other day a pc fell into my lap and suddenly i'm staring at the ubuntu interface and i like it.  i really like this os.  the more i use it and learn about it, the more i want to take my whole website mysql, php, photshop, text-wrangler, mac os-based web development process and move it to ubuntu.  
> 
> here's my, "can i make the move to ubuntu" thought process.
> 
> text editor: i can live without my favorite text editor, text wrangler, even though blue fish, imho, isn't as good.  it's good enough.


Just FYI Bluefish isn't really a "text" editor per-se, it's a code editor.  I'm sure you use textwrangler for coding, and I think that you'll find Bluefish is on par with it in that area. (If not there are many other code editors out there--Quanta for one.)  For text editing you have gedit, abiword, and OOo--it's all about choice, and what feels right to you.




> <snip>
> image editing:  on the mac i use photoshop 7.  image editing is my main obstacle to moving full-time to ubuntu.  I tested gimpshop and was impressed at the speed, etc., but i kept bumping into limitations, having to do workarounds to get things done.  a simple workaround for adding a drop shadow to text is fine if you have all the time in the world, but i don't.  i have to get it done quickly and move on to the next task.
> 
> (side note on gimpshop's interface.  it's fine as far as i'm concerned.  in the mac version of photoshop all the pallettes are individual windows.  i like it that way.  it's all i've ever known, so it's a non-issue.)


I don't have a problem with multiple windows, my problem is with how they act.  If the Gimp devs want to keep the multi-window interface, they need it to work like it does on the Mac, so that all it's windows work together. (In the dev version--2.3.x--they have transient dock, which works, but not quite perfectly yet.  So that's a step in that direction.  Also, menus are much better , and more intuitive.)
As far as drop shadows, you don't need a work around. In the 2.2.x series got to Script-Fu > Shadow > Drop-Shadow in 2.3.x Filters > Light and Shadow > Drop-shadow--couldn't be simpler.  



> enter pixel.  it loads fast, has a great interface.  loved the speed.  it ain't bloated!  i could use it instantly without having to re-think things, or to figure out how to do things.  i just went into photoshop mode and started playing with it and fairly easily could get some things done.
> 
> *but* it is a bit buggy, especially dealing with text.  i don't think pixel is ready for prime-time yet.  i'm going to register, not b/c i'm going to put it to immediate use, but b/c i want pixel to succeed.  think of all the new ubuntu/linux users who could come on board b/c suddenly there wasn't the "lack of photoshop" issue stopping them.
> 
> this isn't about open source, or everything should be free, it's about making linux a viable option for everyone.  
> 
> takayuki


Pixel may become a viable option, we'll see--the developer's been working on it for 7 years (if I remember right) and hasn't hit a 1.0 release, and it's still buggy as hell. I'd pay his price for it, if I could use it,right nowI can't.

----------


## jasplund

It would be great if someone could make repository files and directories and they will be hosted by Pavel/PIXEL

see this thread: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=239

----------


## stoffe

What a buggy piece of crap. And it sure has some strange ideas of workflow (or maybe that is just more bugs). Don't bother folks, check back in another 7 years or so, then it might be something...

----------


## claydoh

> What a buggy piece of crap. And it sure has some strange ideas of workflow (or maybe that is just more bugs). Don't bother folks, check back in another 7 years or so, then it might be something...


Buggy? I don't find it so  (but as a paying customer I have acces to the newest builds), it is less buggy for me than Krita has been recently. Krita being Gimp's only real competition atm. But to each his own....

----------


## curtis1005

Gimp is powerful, but the hard to use.

I hate the resize dialog.Default tool panel takes up too many screen space, also tools are lined up in 4 column, it is hard to look for a tool button. I have to assign hotkey to help myself quickly switch between different tools

hopefully, gimp's interface will soon be improved in future.

----------


## unoobu

> how pathetic.


Holy crap.

----------


## unoobu

> I love how some of you don't use the Gimp because it has a different ui than Photoshop.  You are the same people who pledge that you shouldn't complain that Ubuntu isn't Windows.


Sorry, but that is bu******.  GIMP can not do everything that Photoshop can, and the fact that the toolbars open seperate windows is ILLOGICAL!  For a true graphic designer, GIMP is not an option.

However, Xara is something I am going to look into.  I hope it can do the nifty layer shading and decoration techniques that Photoshop could...  I used that more than anything for graphic design...

----------


## commodore

A program is just a tool. An artist makes the artwork, not the tool. A good artist can make a good piece of work with the worst app ever. Unoobu this means you can't do graphic design. You are just closed to Photoshop and you let it do your work.

----------


## niviche

> An artist makes the artwork, not the tool.


But you can't hammer a nail with a screwdriver. Have you ever tried to do some professional print work with Gimp?

----------


## abs

all.

keep your eye out for Xara Lx, its not photoshop but it is pritty damn good, and very quick at vector work, give it some time to mature (u can download it as it is now close to beeing fully functional) then the opensource community would gain a fantastic application.


--

----------


## PingunZ

I use Photoshop in windows and gimp in linux.
I mostly use photoshop when I am following howto's. Or making icons etc ...
I also suck in gimp  :Wink:  I've tried it for a couple of hours, it got lots of good things but I'm not made for it  :Wink: 

Edit: Pixel doesn't even work so can't compare -_-

Grtz PingunZ

----------


## alphaomega

I find that anything you have to pay for in Linux doesn't really meet expectations.  Anyone with a bit of patience can manipulate what they need to in inkscape of gimp to get the job done. After suffering with Xandros and Mandrake trying to make me pay for open source, I am very distant when someone wants me to pay for software for Linux.

----------


## OneSeventeen

Sorry to drudge up an old thread.... I have tried pixel and I like the features (supporting vector filters is a neccessity for me, as I always make mistakes, change my mind, etc, and re-doing 10 steps just so I can chang ethe shape of something that has a bevel and a shadow just isn't my cup of tea.)

I prefer Photoshop CS atm, but for vector art I use Inkscape near exclusively.  In fact, my website, woventhorns.com was created all in linux, and the logo for my university's health fair was made in linux using inkscape.  But when it comes to the shiny graphics on my widgets, I had to go back to photoshop, since I'm not too good with the gimp scripts.

I mainly use gimp for photo editing, resizing, rotating, and cropping, but not much else.  I chalk this up to laziness on my part, and don't fault the gimp developers, but I definitely think they should fork the gimp and create a version that targets the lazy.  I feel like I can do anything in the gimp that I can in PS, but it will probably take me 20 to 30 times longer, depending on the complexity.

(I still don't care for pixel though, because it never seems to work properly for me, even on windows)

----------


## Richard, The One, The Onl

> I would recommend reading Grokking the GIMP if you have troubles using GIMP. I found that my troubles with the GIMP was me not understanding how the program worked. I can accomplish anything my co-workers can do with their editors but we take different paths to get there. I read an article that talked about the different image programs and the general conclusion was people like what they are used to...especially with a complicated program like the GIMP or Photoshop.
> 
> That said I prefer to support free software, but I have no problem buying software if I need to. What bugs me is when commercial software tries to make you pay a ton. This program walks the line as they do want quite a bit of money although not a ridiculous amount. I would prefer to not pay over $50.00 for any one given program.


I just downloaded the GIMP and gave it a try.
I think it's great, but I really need to know how to apply effects to text, similar to what Photoshop does with drop shadows, glows, fills, etc. in layering.
Any specific place I can find that out???

----------


## Kimm

Try Filters.
I dont know if there is any text-specific functions.

----------


## CarpKing

> I really need to know how to apply effects to text


Dropshadow is found in Script-Fu -> Shadow; other functions may be found in Filters, Python-Fu, and Script-Fu, and all that I know of work on text as well as other layers.  The GIMP manual can be found at http://docs.gimp.org/ and downloaded.  IMHO it should really be included; if not with the program itself, then in distros that contain the program.  But in any case, it should help you get started. Or there's always fooling around until you figure it out.  I didn't look at the manual for some time after starting with the GIMP, and I still haven't read the whole thing, but I have a feeling I would be farther along now if I had done so earlier.

----------


## ikilledclown

Coming from photoshop to gimp I found quite easy, it's simple and if you ask me less comlicated than photoshop, why pay for anything else unless it makes you coffee as well.

----------


## luca.b

I have used GIMP to assemble figures that I then put in one of my scientific publications. I think that with the unstable branch (2.3.x) it's getting there feature-wise. What still bothers me is its horrid UI.

----------


## markuman

hm, i've tested pixel, but can't understand ...
i prefer gimp! it's more stable as pixel and runs realy faster for me!

i'll stay @ gimp!

----------


## Perfect Storm

Faster? The newest pixel, starts up in 1 secs. Also the (pay) version is quiet stable (at least for me).

----------


## smartalecks

> Faster? The newest pixel, starts up in 1 secs. Also the (pay) version is quiet stable (at least for me).


Yep i just got the pay version of beta6

It works very well, very stable except when it comes to some file types and brushes in general (the brush engine was re-written and will come out in beta 7). It starts up in a second, and the filters are very fast. Its only $32 right now too, and all updates until v2 are included.

The only problem I had was there was a libSDL error- it would start but it would be far too bright and transparent. It was easy to fix tho, a workaround was on his site.

----------


## jsimmons

> I'm trying to install gimpshop, but I have to install darwinports, and to install darwinports, I have to install openssl. I did from synaptic. Darwinports said I didn't. I went and downloaded openssl from their site, and am installing it by hand, then I'll go back and try darwinports again, then gimpshop.
> 
> ....okay got to have a perl parser, too. nice to have been warned of of all this....
> 
> ...snipped remainder of rant ...


10-4 brother. Endless hidden dependencies, the requirement to compile many of the components, and almost non-existant gracious help from those with the secret knowledge is going to keep Linux from being generally accepted on the desktop.

But wait! Most Linuz zealots don't care if it's ever accepted on the desktop! "We don't care if joe-blow-average understands it or not!"  I actually got that response once from a group of zealots.  Until the Linuz "elite" accept the inevitable conclusion that to beat Microsoft you have to play their game where usability and "dumbing down" is concerned, Linux is going to remain a hobby OS that amounts to little more than a curious little blip in computer history and will never un-seat Microsoft. Afterall, there are MILLIONS more desktop users than there are servers.  And here's the last seemingly ignored factoid for the propeller heads - DESKTOP USERS WANT AN ALTERNATIVE TO WINDOWS, and guess what - they would FREAKIN PAY FOR IT IF WAS HALFWAY DECENT.

Oh yeah, I'm planted firmly in the "The Gimp sucks" camp.  I would rather run Paintshop Pro or Photoshop under Wine then have to deal with The Gimp's idea of a multi-window application.  At least Wine installs and runs without any complaints...

----------


## kakashi

> 10-4 brother. Endless hidden dependencies, the requirement to compile many of the components, and almost non-existant gracious help from those with the secret knowledge is going to keep Linux from being generally accepted on the desktop.
> 
> But wait! Most Linuz zealots don't care if it's ever accepted on the desktop! "We don't care if joe-blow-average understands it or not!"  I actually got that response once from a group of zealots.  Until the Linuz "elite" accept the inevitable conclusion that to beat Microsoft you have to play their game where usability and "dumbing down" is concerned, Linux is going to remain a hobby OS that amounts to little more than a curious little blip in computer history and will never un-seat Microsoft. Afterall, there are MILLIONS more desktop users than there are servers.  And here's the last seemingly ignored factoid for the propeller heads - DESKTOP USERS WANT AN ALTERNATIVE TO WINDOWS, and guess what - they would FREAKIN PAY FOR IT IF WAS HALFWAY DECENT.
> 
> Oh yeah, I'm planted firmly in the "The Gimp sucks" camp.  I would rather run Paintshop Pro or Photoshop under Wine then have to deal with The Gimp's idea of a multi-window application.  At least Wine installs and runs without any complaints...


you do realize that wine is only easy to install cuz you get a nice deb for it. there are deb for gimp use them. 

also the newer versions of gimp have awesome multi window ability. the version i posted 2.3.6 was already great but try the further versions like 2.3.9. 

 just because you can compile anything for a damn don't diss on linux.

----------


## jsimmons

> you do realize that wine is only easy to install cuz you get a nice deb for it. there are deb for gimp use them. 
> 
> also the newer versions of gimp have awesome multi window ability. the version i posted 2.3.6 was already great but try the further versions like 2.3.9. 
> 
>  just because you can compile anything for a damn don't diss on linux.


"Couldn't" compile wasn't anywhere in my statement.  My complaint is that I *have to*. That's a crock. I want to do stuff, not spend countless hourse chasing down dependancies and compiling crap.  I spend all day at work compiling crap, and I DON'T want to have to do it at home too.  And I'm not "dissin' Linux". I'dm dissin' folks like - well - you who seem to think everyone should share your penchant for compiling everything you use on your system.

Oh yeah - Wine is an example of software that has a decent installer - and it should. It's been under development for a number of years.

----------


## calande

Ok, because GIMP can't be compared to Photoshop. It's been 4 years that I've tried to use GIMP with their online docs. It's just too crappy. Over the years they haven't improved it and added featured that people have been asking for. It's about time a good alternative to GIMP comes up.

----------


## jehnx

> Ok, because GIMP can't be compared to Photoshop. It's been 4 years that I've tried to use GIMP with their online docs. It's just too crappy. Over the years they haven't improved it and added featured that people have been asking for. It's about time a good alternative to GIMP comes up.


You might want to try out GIMPshop, then.  I used to really dislike The GIMP a while back, too, when I was on Caldera OpenLinux 2.3 I believe, and I hadn't tried it anymore til recently, and now I really like this new GIMPshop program.

----------


## abs

GIMPshop, I think XARA LX will is looking like a great little package, hope it picks up more developers,

----------


## BrokeBody

Pixel is a RGB, CMYK and HDR image editing, photo retouching and manipulating program available for many operating systems formerly known as Pixel32. It is available for Windows, Linux, Linspire, MacOSX, BeOS, Zeta, QNX, MorphOS, FreeBSD, eComStation, OS/2, SkyOS and even old plain DOS, for both x86 and PowerPC architectures.



Pixel image editor has been developed by Pavel Kanzelsberger (Banská Bystrica, Slovakia) since 1997 (current version since 2003 after few rewrites) and is still in heavy development. In 2005, the first release candidates appeared and once all the bugs are fixed, a final release may be ready by end of 2005. Release Candidate 3 is already available to public. Release Candidate 4 will follow in July 2005 by latest, followed by final beta testing in August-December 2005. Final stable product will be released in 2006.

Even if its not finished yet, Pixel got few awards.

      and others.

November 2004 - Image editors comparison in czech Computer magazine (21/2004). Pixel got 8/10 points and was better than GIMP and PhotoImpact. In some test categories even better than Paint Shop Pro and PhotoPaint.

September 2005 - Computer magazine (18/2005) is doing image editors comparison again, year after previous one and this time Pixel gets 2nd place with only 2% difference right after Photoshop CS2. PDF with article is here, magazines website is here. Pixel 1.0 RC4 is also included on their CD and DVD packaged with magazine.

----------


## BrokeBody

Just to know everyone. This is not a spam or something. :Wink:

----------


## abs

hay pal, 

you might wont to check my post out about pixel, 

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=89690

regards,

Abs

----------


## BrokeBody

I didn't know that there is one post about Pix32 already. :Rolling Eyes:  

Besides, my post is better. :Very Happy:  

regards,

BrokeBody

----------


## RAV TUX

These threads have been merged:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...52#post1286952
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=89690

----------


## Shay Stephens

I tried downloading, but the download page is busted.  Anyone know how to reach it or the author to let him know.

A side question, does this do 16bit editing?  Or is it 8bit only like gimp?

----------


## commodore

Someone start copying it really quick. PIXEL is even crappier than GIMP because it's not free software  :Smile:

----------


## prokoudine

> A side question, does this do 16bit editing?  Or is it 8bit only like gimp?


Any chance you have a look at Features page: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=9 ?  :Very Happy: 

It has far more information of Pixel's features that you could probably expect from a forum reader.

----------


## Shay Stephens

> Any chance you have a look at Features page: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=9 ? 
> 
> It has far more information of Pixel's features that you could probably expect from a forum reader.


Yes I read that page, but it only indirectly references it.  It says:
Color Management support for RGB, CMYK, Grayscale and CIE Lab modes (8-bit and 16-bit)

I can probably assume that this also means 16bit image editing is possible, but I thought I would ask someone who is using it to see if I could get some verification.

The download link still is not working, so I have not been able to try the software myself.

----------


## regeya

I bought a license mainly to support development.

Neither Pixel nor GIMP will ever be able to touch Photoshop.  Well, maybe they will in some areas, but let's face it, no U.S. developers would be able to help with GIMP development if they ever tried to add in good RGB->CMYK support.

I always love to read peoples' replies on these.  I used to be one of those guys who advocated The GIMP as a Photoshop alternative.  Then I started using Photoshop professionally.  There really is no alternative to the real thing, guys, and it's not just a matter of not understanding The GIMP, because believe it or not, I used The GIMP before I ever used Photoshop!  Heck, I used it before there was a GTK+, back in the Motif days.  In many ways The GIMP has grown since then, but in other ways, not so much.

If all you're doing is, say, light touchup work, or generating 2D GFX for websites, The GIMP will save you hundred$ on your budget.  However, if you're wanting to get photos (especially bad photos) ready for publicantion, don't even think of advocating The GIMP.  Just don't.  You have as much right advocating that as I do advocating Perl (which I know nothing about.)

I know y'all mean well, but where I live, I can use Free Software, or I'm Free to buy a license to Windows XP or an OS X box and Free to buy a license to Photoshop and I'm Free to accept the licensing agreements to all those.  That's true Software Freedom.  Now if only I had  true Freedom from Zealots...

----------


## regeya

> Never use it. Why would I?


OMG.  Seriously, if you don't know what LAB space is, in all seriousness, you lack the experience necessary to give me a qualified answer.  Until you do, it's just hot air.

I know I'm flaming, but I feel it's justified.  It's enlightened if it's pro-Free Software, but flaming if it's not, I know, but I'm a big boy, I can take it.  :Very Happy:

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

Well, while I hope that the GIMP and Krita will continue development on a fast(er) pace, unforunately I feel they still have quite a way to go (as does Pixel) to be PhotoShop alternatives.

I read that Ubuntu actually has a repository for commercial software, now it would be great if they could bring PhotoShop and other apps like ZBrush to Linux; kind of like buying a license from Adobe etc. and then being able to install from the commercial repository if you own a valid license.

----------


## lutosdemayo

Why Photoshop tops most-wanted Linux app list
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html

A first look at GIMP 2.4
http://software.newsforge.com/articl.../09/28/1345228

 :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):   :Roll Eyes (Sarcastic):

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> Why Photoshop tops most-wanted Linux app list
> http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT6362808891.html
> 
> A first look at GIMP 2.4
> http://software.newsforge.com/articl.../09/28/1345228


Hi,

Do you mean with your statement that GIMP 2.4 will be comparable in features to PhotoShop CS2 or even CS3 which is coming out in a while?

If so I'd like to ask what you have been using PhotoShop and the GIMP for?

For digital painting the GIMP has a prehistoric brush engine. Even resizing a bitmap brush on the fly is impossible. You should have a look at brush dynamics offered by PhotoShop and Painter, the GIMP is nowhere near any of those at the moment.

Also large images seem to be handled much worse in the GIMP, when working with 9000px sized images the GIMP slows down quite a bit and won't even open some files that I can work with in both PhotoShop and Painter.

Also of course the GIMP is missing proper color management and support for other color spaces, from what I have heard the first steps have been taken but there is still a lot of missing functionality.

Quite some of the filters found in PhotoShop can not be compared at the moment to the equivalents in the GIMP, just think of PhotoShop's Liquify filter (IWarp in the GIMP). Then there are adjustment layers and layer effects for non-dstructive editing, better transform tools, much better text support, vector layers, as well as very comfortable UI features like the rotatable canvas in Painter which is supposedly going to be in CS3 as well.

For photography you'll also need 16bit support and RAW import, as well as some of the other features that I have already mentioned.

For compositing the GIMP just lacks too many features, Cinepaint is geared far more towards that. Besides non-destructive editing you'll need 16 and 32bit support, EXR, DPX, CIN import/export etc.

Yes, I do like the GIMP, it has some great tools but it still has a lot of ground to cover until it is competitive in all the areas it offers. Also some of those features mentioned in these articles highly depend on GEGL, which seems on the distant horizon.

----------


## CarpKing

I don't think that lutosdemayo meant anything so specific.  I found both links to be interesting reads.  I'm now really looking forward to GIMP 2.4, as it sounds like it will have all kinds of cool features.  It does seem that Photoshop has the edge on GIMP in many professional applications (especially those that involve printing), but for the home user, I see no reason to avoid the GIMP.  I certainly have no need for a professional graphics program, and a Linux port would not change the fact that it is far out of my price range.  I also don't see the justification for the angry rants that seem to appear in most threads that involve the GIMP (especially on forums other than this one).

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> I don't think that lutosdemayo meant anything so specific.  I found both links to be interesting reads.  I'm now really looking forward to GIMP 2.4, as it sounds like it will have all kinds of cool features.  It does seem that Photoshop has the edge on GIMP in many professional applications (especially those that involve printing), but for the home user, I see no reason to avoid the GIMP.  I certainly have no need for a professional graphics program, and a Linux port would not change the fact that it is far out of my price range.  I also don't see the justification for the angry rants that seem to appear in most threads that involve the GIMP (especially on forums other than this one).



Hi there,

Yeah, I agree with you on what you said.  :Smile: 

Unfortunately the problem is not solved though, there is still no alternative for PhotoShop on Linux or even a port of the application itself for professional sized graphics creation under Linux. There are lots of professional sized applications on Linux, both OS and commercial software, but the area of 2D graphics is not quite there yet. I really hope that the GIMP or Krita may catch up!

----------


## CarpKing

It is easy to create a simple dynamically-resizeable brush in the GIMP:
http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=105466
Don't miss the tip on adjusting hardness in post #18.  

I hope in the future the GIMP includes such a brush by default, and maybe supports dynamic resizing for any brush, not just a simple one.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

Hey,

Thanks a lot for coming back and posting that link.  :Smile: 

Unfortunately that is not what I mean though, GIMP's parametric brushes are just like the plain "Airbrush" in PhotoShop. What I was referring to are custom brushes made from alphas. Here is a a quick overview of the paint tools in PS7: http://www.creativemac.com/2002/03_m...7dynamics1.htm

Also Painter has a very advanced brush engine for natural media brushes.

 :Smile:

----------


## bluntu

When it comes to Photo editing/retouching PHOTOSHOP is not needed. You can use GIMP but.. when it comes to WEB DESIGNING like Layouts that is the problem.

GIMP and Inkscape can't do layout design, you can but it will be a lot of tweaking and non-productive.

----------


## kaamos

> When it comes to Photo editing/retouching PHOTOSHOP is not needed. You can use GIMP but.. when it comes to WEB DESIGNING like Layouts that is the problem.


Just asking (been a few years since I've used photoshop), are you talking about ps/imageready generated layouts that use only tables? I always found those extremely clunky compared to just writing the css with a suitable editor.

----------


## bluntu

http://www.templatemonster.com/category.php?type=1,9,13

Due to lack of features like Dropshadow and adjustment layer makes it difficult to design Web Templates.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> When it comes to Photo editing/retouching PHOTOSHOP is not needed. You can use GIMP but.. when it comes to WEB DESIGNING like Layouts that is the problem.
> 
> GIMP and Inkscape can't do layout design, you can but it will be a lot of tweaking and non-productive.


I'm not so much of a photographer, but I am sure you for high-res photography that goes to print you will still need many advanced features besides the print and color management ones. For example you don't want to convert your 16bit RAW images to 8bit to get them into the GIMP. To check out some software made for professional photo editing check out Aperture (http://www.apple.com/aperture/) and Lightroom (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom/).

----------


## Shay Stephens

> To check out some software made for professional photo editing check out Aperture (http://www.apple.com/aperture/) and Lightroom (http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/lightroom/).


But none of those run in linux...

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> But none of those run in linux...


Yeah, that's the problem!  :Wink: 

Edit: What I mean with that is, as I said earlier the 2D image creation and editing lags a lot behind under Linux. None of the big "industry standard" applications or even their smaller competitors run under Linux, and there are no alternatives that cover those areas (yet - I still hope for the GIMP, Krita, Pixel etc.).

----------


## %hMa@?b<C

i tried the PIXEL trial, liked it, but unless they at least make it free (as in beer) I will never use it. GO GIMP!!!

----------


## rattlerviper

Pixel is no Photoshop!  If it's photoshop you want get Photoshop!  If you don't feel like you need photoshop use Gimp it's free!  About Pixel I'll keep my comments to myself.  2 years of training in college on Photoshop has made me picky...Gimp is better than Pixel :Wink:   nuff said.

----------


## neko18

Pixel looks pretty cool, but I'm used to GIMP so I probably won't be using it anytime soon. Thanks for pointing out the program to us anyway!

----------


## Doovoo

> Pixel is no Photoshop!  If it's photoshop you want get Photoshop!


Oh, I'm sorry, has Adobe released a Linux version of that? Wait, that's right, they didn't.

The GIMP is better than Pixel right now, but only because of stability. One Pixel reaches 1.0, it will be much better than The GIMP. The GIMP has a very user-unfriendly GUI, and no matter how much users complain, they don't change it (or at least give other options in the preferences). And what's the deal with The GIMP sticking with 8 bit color? 

There are lots of tasks that The GIMP is good for, but I think it would be very hard to find any professional designer using it. Pixel offers capabilities and workflows that are actually useful to people working at a higher-level caliber. I think that it should be like Xara Xtreme and cost money on Windows and OS X and be free on Linux.

----------


## ramjet_1953

I downloaded the Pixel trial and have been playing with it for a couple of days.
For a beta edition, it has worked fine for me. No bugs have surfaced yet, although I wouldn't consider myself a power user.
I will probably buy it, as I have never been comfortable with GIMP, as I used Photoshop for years and Pixel just feels right.
I just wish that the developer could get a large company to back him further in his development and so that it could be released as open source.

Roger  :Very Happy:

----------


## toykilla

Well, I wanted to give it a shot, but cannot find any of the requires libs for x64. Bummer.

----------


## apoth

I'd rather use GIMP, but I would prefer an MDI - philosophies of that aside.

----------


## darkhatter

I'm already starting the convert to this program on windows, when I get Linux up and running I'll be using this from now on.

----------


## !nkubus

I really like gimp, I wish it would only use 1 window though, I find it really anoying to search your toolbars and layers all the time. I know the desktop trick but it dosen't feel right to me either.

Pixel however have a lovely ui ( I wish Gimp's developper would take ideas from Pixel). I Pixelwas open source I would use it in a heartbeat.

----------


## nikkiana

I'm debating buying it, to be honest... I find the fact that the GIMP isn't one window to be nearly intolerable and there are so many graphics related projects that I want to do but haven't because I open the program, get frusterated by the number of windows open, and then just quit because I'm overwhelmed.... I'm not the biggest fan of shareware, but meh.... $32 for something that solves my problem isn't _too_ bad.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

Well, the multi-window interface also has quite some advantages. For example if you have a dual display setup you can spread the dock and image window and two different displays and use the whole space of one for your image window. A lot of applications on Unix, also on MacOS, work like this. I also just realized that you can "hide" the docks and toolbox by hitting TAB to show the image window only. Or just maximize it with F11.

By the way, there is a new development version of the GIMP out, which looks very cool. I just wish they would get GEGL integrated some time in the nearer future and do something about the brush engine.

And I'd maybe change the name.  :Think:  

 :Very Happy:

----------


## Breepee

Tiggs, would be nice you told us what is so cool about the new dev version of GIMP.

Pixel is  very nice program, but it's instability is a showstopper. The GIMP is more an painting editor, whereas Pxel seems to be geared towars real photopocessing (where Photoshop does both and then some). The GIMP is really not suited for high-end photoprocessing and as such it's great to see an application fill this gap on Linux. I hope the bugs and stability issues of Pixel can be fixed.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> Tiggs, would be nice you told us what is so cool about the new dev version of GIMP.
> 
> Pixel is  very nice program, but it's instability is a showstopper. The GIMP is more an painting editor, whereas Pxel seems to be geared towars real photopocessing (where Photoshop does both and then some). The GIMP is really not suited for high-end photoprocessing and as such it's great to see an application fill this gap on Linux. I hope the bugs and stability issues of Pixel can be fixed.


Uhm, I posted my critique of the GIMP and its capabilities here: http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showpost...&postcount=208




> Hi,
> 
> Do you mean with your statement that GIMP 2.4 will be comparable in features to PhotoShop CS2 or even CS3 which is coming out in a while?
> 
> If so I'd like to ask what you have been using PhotoShop and the GIMP for?
> 
> For digital painting the GIMP has a prehistoric brush engine. Even resizing a bitmap brush on the fly is impossible. You should have a look at brush dynamics offered by PhotoShop and Painter, the GIMP is nowhere near any of those at the moment.
> 
> Also large images seem to be handled much worse in the GIMP, when working with 9000px sized images the GIMP slows down quite a bit and won't even open some files that I can work with in both PhotoShop and Painter.
> ...


You can't deny though that there has been done a lot on the  plugins and on the interface, as well as the integration of new tools. I assume a lot of those much asked for features depend on the GEGL integration. Didn't they say sometime that they even want to have node-based, non-destructive editing in the GIMP?

I don't see however why you say that the GIMP is a "painting editor". One should ask on CGTalk what features digital painters would like to see in the GIMP.

I really like Pixel and I think it is a great effort, last time I downloaded a demo though it was not more advanced than the GIMP either. Also quite instable as you said. If you need to work with higher bit depth, HDR and other color spaces I'd have a look at Krita.

With GEGL integrated the GIMP would finally have those features as well.




> We want GEGL to be as widely useful as possible. We are working on high bit depths, color management, CMYK and L*a*b native editing, flexible tile based systems, multi-threaded image processing, and more.

----------


## unlokia

I hate to have to be the one to teach the ethics and reasons for the foundation of Free Software.. AGAIN.... :Brick wall:  But I shall:

Foss... FSF.... Free Software... Open-source... whatever you call it....

We don't want some proprietory rubbishware "filling a gap" thanks VERY much!.
It seems some people just cannot be bothered to find out EXACTLY what open source and "free, as in free beer" is about. We keep our freedom of choice, our freedom to modify and distribute and share code/programs etc because OSS and FSF *DON'T* want the restrictions of proprietory company products, whereas the lazy a** world as a wh0le, seems VERY much to have lost it's morals and principals, and just DON'T CARE how they do a job, or with what tool, as long as it gets done.

Be the software counterfeit, "pirated" (I detest the analogy there  :Confused:  ) or paid for with X amount of £££/$$$ - had you DONE your background research, and were you REALLY interested in the wellbeing of the worldwide community as a wh0le, you wouldn't have been here in the first place, attempting to coax freedom fighters into using closed source trash, would you?!.

This is the wh0le crux of the problem - Microsoft/Adobe etc etc have succeeded SO well in convincing people that what they sell is good stuff, that the average person GENUINELY thinks that closed source "paid for" means that it is of a better quality and standard.

Oh dear - we need a ***LOT*** more evangelists out there, giving lectures and demonstrations of everyday situations using OSS, and giving people the TRUTH they so badly need, to flush out the residue left behind by society and its ugly brainwashing tactics.

----------


## darkhatter

I forgot to say this, but gimp users are scared whenever a new image editing program comes out, and it does better then gimp. I hope this program does take off, that way it'll start to open the market for other programs. Gimp is getting better I'm liking some of the things they are doing in the 2.3 series (2.4) but that isn't enough to take photoshops place. I played with the program a little I could get all my needs done, gimp is still gimpped but 2.4 is going to be a huge leap.

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## carlgm

What a load of rubbish some people in this thread sprout. In my opinion Photoshop is currently the best option for the money.




> giving lectures and demonstrations of everyday situations using OSS, and giving people the TRUTH they so badly need, to flush out the residue left behind by society and its ugly brainwashing tactics.


If you knocked on my door and started telling me what I want is an free, and open source graphics application because I am using and paying for Photoshop which is made and owned by the evil Adobe, i'd  either set my dog on you or closed the door on your face. :/

Freedom is choice that isn't defined by someone elses rules, with options being removed to restrict that freedom. I myself wouldn't take kindly to other people limiting my options of what I can say/do simply because they feel that they know of a better option.

I myself like idea of the open source community, especially when related to Educational programs, or programs designed for everyday use. It's great to be able to download the source and modify or just look at. That doesn't mean I would enforce my liking of the idea on someone else, or frown upon should some company which employs people have their software not free, or open source or even one guy writing a little application to do a small task.

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## unlokia

@carlgm - sit down, and grind some of those ubuntu beans for a nice cuppa coffee  :Very Happy: . I am not saying that the closed source world HAS to change its ways - that is going to be a MASSIVE job - my sister uses Photoshop CS and I dont try and stop HER. What I *AM* profoundly against, is closed source "me too!" companies, hiding their bad intentions behind the "we got something for Linux, now!" cloak - we don't WANT closed source apps in Linux - THAT was my point. 

Your response was a tad over defensive and agressive - I certainly do NOT appreciate such stupidness as suggesting I'd EVER knock on your door... why would I?? LOL!!

Carry on with whatever prop apps you use - I'm sure a lot of them work great, but it is high time the CLOSED SOURCE world REALISED we DON'T need closed source rubbish in distros, LEAST of all UBUNTU!!!. What the thick greedy cheeses don't understand is ETHICS - they just see Linux as ANOTHER way to pipe money away from FOSS development, and into their spanish villas and the suchlike. Sorry if you took it the wrong way dude, but that just IS NOT my fault!.

 :Mr. Green: 


Dude - you wanna meet Richard Stallman if you think ***I*** hate closed source. Think this is criticism?? you wouldn't know what had hit you when he has finished lectures - PROPS TO THE GUY HE INVENTED FOSS!!!!!!!!!!

----------


## Shay Stephens

A photographers point of view...

I take photos and edit them for a living.  So I need a certain level or functionality and performance to do my job.  Now, I come from a Windows background, but late last year I came around to seeing what was going on with activation, DRM, etc, etc.  I have to make a change away from windows/photoshop.

I did the initial app tests, and nothing really stood out as being capable enough for what I was doing.  But I kept trying.  I finally got PS7 working in crossover office.  A partial success, but I can't edit RAW.  I found Bibble, it will let me edit RAW in a way I need.  I could swap out PS7 for gimp if I could just get gimp to play back recorded actions.  I don't need it to run PS actions, I just need it to record it's own actions.  Scripting in gimp-fu or python-fu is not viable for the quick and dirty stuff I do daily.  I also need 16 bit editing capability.  When gimp offers these things (hopefully soon) I will be pleased as punch.

But each month I seem to make a little progress here, a little there.  And with each advance, I grow a little less reliant on non-free (as in freedom) apps.  I don't mind paying for working apps, but I do want to maintain my freedom.

My first goal is getting rid of windows.  Then I can focus on getting rid of non-free (freedom) apps.  The goals behind not allowing non-free apps is the right way to go because it guarantees that freedom will not be corrupted little by little over time until there is no freedom left (the boiling frog principle) as has been happening with Windows.

Well it appears that I am rambling now.  The point I want to make is it can take a while to transition.  In all practical terms, not everyone can go cold turkey.  Do what you can when you, support freedom and those who offer it.  Eventually, everyone can get there  :Smile:

----------


## Breepee

BTW, an articel about GEGL:

http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/10/16/1342216

----------


## TigerWolf

You know the best thing about PIXEL - it might give adobe more reason to port photoshop to linux.

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## unlokia

That is a very valid point - as long as they release the SOURCE!!

Otherwise it is like giving a car away but keeping the keys.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> You know the best thing about PIXEL - it might give adobe more reason to port photoshop to linux.


That would be nice but I doubt it greatly. Even Disney was not able to convince them to port it to Linux, that's why they tried pushing the GIMP for a while. I read their artists didn't get along with it and they rather spent some money to make WINE run PhotoShop.

In general I don't know exactly what the GIMP is targeted to be. As the discussion goes on Slashdot I read a lot about what the GIMP is not supposed to be used for. I intend to have a closer look at Krita again, it already has quite a few of the features that I have been listing and they are interested in supporting digital painting and natural media as well. And they seem to be quite open for the users' opinions.

----------


## HanZo

I'm an idealist. I really believe in all this free software thing... but it's 6 years I try to convert to linux and I just can't at least not on my main workstation. One of the reasons is photoshop. This app is the base of all my work, I am an illustrator and use a lot of photoshop for several different things. 
I could write a list of 10 pages with all the reasons why any linux app won't work for me, and believe I've tried them all, and I continue to check anything out that gets released.
But if it was just gimp, I'll get it sorted out, the problem is linux as a whole is not well suited for what I do, so I'll probably get me a mac, and that's it.
but back to the topic, I am using ubuntu on several machines and it's great! I had it on my laptop until the poor thing died... and it's great for most tasks, but not for the creative tasks. I tried the audio and music apps, I tried video editing, I've tried Ktoon and scribus and gimp and krita... nice apps, but huge way to go. If I was somebody who just needed basic functionality I'd go for it, but I need professional standard, I need colour matching, I need duotone support and so on... I have go prepare images for print and there's enough things that can go wrong, I cannot risk to double them.
The main problem, as far as I see, is that right now oss is struggling hard to produce apps that really can cope with what's the state of the art applications for certain fields, but they lag way behind. I don't think having closed source apps on linux would be bad, I mean... there's people who have to feed a family with the coding stuff! I didn't want to do all my illustrations for free, although I've done work for free because I believed in it.
I'd really love to see pixel become a working full featured application, something I can use for my work, maybe spending even less than with photoshop... but I can say the same for Gimp...n personally I don't care if if it's open source or not... I think you will always have both things... and both need on each other. Oss should focus more on innovation, because it's where its strengh lays... OSS can dare to go where no commercial company would ever go!

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## Shay Stephens

> I'm an idealist. I really believe in all this free software thing... but it's 6 years I try to convert to linux and I just can't at least not on my main workstation. One of the reasons is photoshop. This app is the base of all my work, I am an illustrator and use a lot of photoshop for several different things.


As more and more artists like you join the crowd, pressure is put on the apps to take directions that were not there or needed before.  I think the next couple of years will be pivotal and we will see a lot of change in the direction of artistic use in linux.

----------


## P_Badger

Oof, well, I've been giving Gimp a good shot for the past couple of weeks, and it's not all TOO bad once one has gotten over the differences from photoshop.

But Gimp will NOT EVER become a professional piece of software unless the programmers can get over themselves and add 16/32 bit picture handling and CMYK. It's strange that they'd leave those completely out. Should mention that changing the brush size is a bit of a mess, too.

Hopefully Gimp 2.4 will come out in the next few decades, and improve on what's out now. Hell, I'd happily pay for a copy, too, but not for what's currently being pedaled. Maybe if we all got together and threw 20 bux at them or something, they'd feel more inclined to finish.

----------


## tiggs_the_cat

> Oof, well, I've been giving Gimp a good shot for the past couple of weeks, and it's not all TOO bad once one has gotten over the differences from photoshop.
> 
> But Gimp will NOT EVER become a professional piece of software unless the programmers can get over themselves and add 16/32 bit picture handling and CMYK. It's strange that they'd leave those completely out. Should mention that changing the brush size is a bit of a mess, too.
> 
> Hopefully Gimp 2.4 will come out in the next few decades, and improve on what's out now. Hell, I'd happily pay for a copy, too, but not for what's currently being pedaled. Maybe if we all got together and threw 20 bux at them or something, they'd feel more inclined to finish.


Well, I don't think it's a question _if_ 16/32 bit handling and different color spaces/color management etc. will be supported, only _when_. As far as I know that is all supposed to come with the GEGL integration after 2.4 is finished.

----------


## cacharreo

OK I'll try Pixel. But Gimp is GREAT!!!

----------


## beefcurry

I have been using ubuntu for sometime now (has it been that long? *stares at 5.04 disk*) And i can say that Nothing will replace photoshop for me. I have VMWARE for one purpose only, photoshop. Gimp just dosnt work out for me, neither does Pixel. I am a photographer and i Shoot in RAW, UFRAW is still not as flexible as AdobeRAW, and wine still dosnt support PS:CS2.

I think there is a number of reasons why so many people stay with photoshop, its more like a developers platform then anything else, people like me have invested quite a number of hours to use it, In terms of basic setup and basic functionality simular to photoshop i would say Pixel beats GIMP hands down as a graphical program, but there are differences. The name photoshop* <- it is MENT for the manipilation of Photos, if i wanted to edit some JPG picture of a logo somewhere, or CG some anime girl, hell even do illustrations GIMP (hense *image* manipilation program in the name, not photo manipilation program) would be very useful. But the type of taloring to photographers is VERY lacking, THAT SAME GOES WITH PIXEL. Pixel has an interface LIKE photoshop, but its functionality is alot lacking. I suppose it has many simular functions but without its RAW functionality, its many filters, filtermasks, blender modes, brush-types, plugin community/database it is no where close. By calling Pixel a "true" photoshop alternative is quite stupid since for people seriously using photoshop (not just some kid downloading a fake to play around with) its the flexibility and functionality for PHOTOGRAPHS*** that pixel currently is too short of functions (especially the vast plugin/filter community). BUT as a photoshop wanabee (trying to clone most of photoshops basic functions) it is in fact way over gimp, but once you tried the gimpshop hack you would start to wonder why ANYONE would pay for PIXEL. Yet again Krita is just as good as Pixel, if not better with a simular interface. But yet again i do expect GEGL to put the Photo into GIMP (lame XD), which will make pixel obsolete.

----------


## Perfect Storm

> it is in fact way over gimp, but once you tried the gimpshop hack you would start to wonder why ANYONE would pay for PIXEL.


I would  :Wink: 
I use both gimp, pixel and photoshop on Ubuntu and agree, for serious pro work photoshop is the way (at the current state). Hopefully in some years both gimp and pixel gets better so they can compete with photoshop so the pro users can use that instead.

----------


## Magnes

Well, Photoshop is one of the applications that stop people from using linux. I use and like GIMP, but I'm not a photographer or illustrator and I understand why Photoshop is - for some people - better (look at the conceptart - GIMP is not suited for that work). But Pixel for me is worse than GIMP (and Photshop of course) in every single detail. And it's not free and not open sourced. Sorry, but thats my opinion.

----------


## bullgr

i use photoshop the last 7 years as a pro...
so, i can't get used gimp (and also the missed parts like cmyk support)
and pixel seems to developt too slow.

the solution for me is photoshop runing in vmware (works perfect and runs smooth)...

----------


## dmn_clown

Why do people continually compare The GIMP and Photoshop when on a technical level you can't compare them?

The GIMP is aimed at low end 8-bit per channel images whereas Photoshop is aimed at the high end 16/32-bit per channel images.  The only piece of free (as in speech) software that can seriously be compared to Photoshop is Cinepaint, which is currently the #2 image editor in use in the special effects studios, right behind Photoshop.

If you want to compare the GIMP to a proprietary image editor you should compare it to one that is aimed at the exact same low end images (e.g. Paint Shop Pro).  This is where your arguments are going to have technical merit.

Pixel, while being non-free software is a decent program but it is most definitely NOT a replacement for Photoshop (Which runs nicely in cross-over office, vmware is a bit of overkill for one program) or even Cinepaint.  There are very few available plugins to augment the limited feature set and almost no features that aren't implemented better elsewhere.

Before anyone starts screaming at me, I should point out that I use the GIMP quite frequently but when I need to work on high end images I use Cinepaint because the GIMP is completely useless for anything high-end.

----------


## barmazal

Photoshop is about graphical engine which never will be open source thus any of not working, "commercial beta" of Pixel *or* open source and free Gimp can offer.
I think there are guys who can turn Gimp into more Photoshop looks (layout wise) freely for newbies to Gimp like myself to get used to it. We just not used to it as we used to Photoshop, nothing about it's accessibility or usability is wrong.

Pixel is just good looking *on screenshot*  toy which brings nostalgia for Photoshop users, while after click>start it brings you nostalgia of Bill Gates and his Windows codename "Blue Error" presentation.

----------


## qamelian

> ...any person who deals with graphics will find Gimp as inferior due to lack of functionality and solid graphical engine.


This is simply not true. I dropped Photoshop in favour of GIMP because I found it technically superior to Photoshop in far more ways than it lacked. I won't say it is perfect, but GIMP is far more extensible than Photoshop and allows me to manage workflow much better than Photoshop. As far as CMYK support, there is a plugin available that add in that functionality. Most of the other complaints that I commonly hear about the GIMP are being addressed over the course of the next two major versions. 

I also know a number of professional digital artists who have expressed a preference for working in GIMP for reasons ranging from from the functional to the creative.

The bottom line is that everyone has a preferred style in which they work and varied technical needs. For some, yes, Photoshop will be the best choice. But there are others like myself that for a variety of reasons consider Photoshop to be the _inferior_ alternative.

----------


## barmazal

i'm sorry you cannot see unclear lines Gimp creates for any graphical object, it's likely you don't even care what anti aliasing filters are.

as for functionality mainly i miss right click on layer to get into layer filters, when the stuff Python-Fu offers limited and low quality filters.

other functionality i miss is live mode for gradients which i can control and manipulate without waiting so much time for it to appear so bad timing for gradients.

----------


## ImpelGD

Thanks for posting on Pixel - I'll likely give it a try after I've installed Feisty Fawn.

I'm a graphic/web designer looking to use Ubuntu instead of Windows where possible. If anyone has any insight into using any of these non-Photoshop applications for slicing up web layouts I'd be pleased to hear it. Does Pixel and/or the GIMP do this?

----------


## barmazal

me too but seems Ive never had ability to run Pixel without having fatal error both on Windows and Ubuntu

----------


## bullgr

> I'm a graphic/web designer looking to use Ubuntu instead of Windows where possible. If anyone has any insight into using any of these non-Photoshop applications for slicing up web layouts I'd be pleased to hear it. Does Pixel and/or the GIMP do this?


1.Gimp is good for home use, for users who don't like to spend 600 euros for retouching they'r vacation photos.
2.Pixel is useless, with many bugs and very slow development. it supposed to be finish in 2005... i thing
the development can't no more continue (technical issues). so, don't hope to work like photoshop at all.
3.the solution for pro's who must use photoshop is to get a mashine with dual core cpu, install vmware, create
winblows virtual session and run photoshop from withit... it runs smooth, perfect, without slowing down.

and i write it again: solution 3 is for pro's who must use photoshop and they like run ubuntu istead winblows.

----------


## ImpelGD

> 3.the solution for pro's who must use photoshop is to get a mashine with dual core cpu, install vmware, create winblows virtual session and run photoshop from withit... it runs smooth, perfect, without slowing down.


Thanks bullgr. The vmware site confuses me (not a difficult thing to do) - which would be the best version of vmware to use? Is there a free one? And does it also work with Photoshop and InDesign CS1?

Many thanks.

----------


## bullgr

> Thanks bullgr. The vmware site confuses me (not a difficult thing to do) - which would be the best version of vmware to use? Is there a free one? And does it also work with Photoshop and InDesign CS1?
> 
> Many thanks.


go there

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=vmware

i use this howto and works perfect.
please note that you must have a dual core cpu to run smooth in vmware.
and yes, you can run ANYTHING: photoshop, corel, adobe creative studio, quark. just ANYTHING

----------


## ImpelGD

Thanks! I'll have a read...

I don't presently have a dual core CPU, but am thinking about buying a new PC anyway.

----------


## barmazal

http://blog.publicidadpixelada.com/h...untu-10-steps/

try here man, don't know if it works , still lazy to follow these 5 steps to make CS working with Ubuntu though wine

----------


## qamelian

> i'm sorry you cannot see unclear lines Gimp creates for any graphical object, it's likely you don't even care what anti aliasing filters are.
> 
> as for functionality mainly i miss right click on layer to get into layer filters, when the stuff Python-Fu offers limited and low quality filters.
> 
> other functionality i miss is live mode for gradients which i can control and manipulate without waiting so much time for it to appear so bad timing for gradients.


Well, use what you like, but I'd hack my own right arm off before I would willingly go back to Photoshop. And you first comment is uncalled for. I seems to presume a lack of knowledge on my part. I've been doing digital illustration (and getting paid for it!) for almost 20 years. I used Photoshop extensively for many years as well as many other tools for more specialist graphics tasks. I think I pretty well qualified to determine what tools are the best for my needs and Photoshop just isn't it. The list of things I can do easily in Gimp that are a struggle to accomplish in Photoshop is as long as that right arm that I thankfully _don't_ need to hack off!

----------


## barmazal

i'm sorry if i offended you or your professionalism.

----------


## bullgr

you can use what you want, but there is some people who need's some prog's and can't live without them...
and they must to be helped to get this prog's to run in ubuntu.

this is a big discussion, but i believe a OS must run anything the user likes and not to force the user to run what
the OS have available.

if a ubuntu user need's to run photoshop and don't like to use gimp, instead to taunt him and to feel forced
to boot to winblows, we can help him and advice him how to do this.

i readed in the forums many threats about to drop photoshop and use gimp... if a user ask's how to run photoshop
in ubuntu he get's answers like "use gimp, is better", "use open source", "gimp is technicaly better",  etc.
*I DON'T LIKE TO USE GIMP, I LIKE TO RUN AND USE PHOTOSHOP IN UBUNTU.*

if we like to grow up ubuntu more, we must advice users how to run the commercial prog's they like in ubuntu
(photoshop, corel, illustrator, dreamweaver, flash...)

there is a solution for that: vmware with dual core cpu. this is the future... virtualisation.
if you can't run some prog's in ubuntu, use a virtualisation mashine.

i done this and from now one i never boot in winblows...

----------


## barmazal

Does it consums much of power? Because on my dual core CS2 gets nutty nutty at some points.

----------


## bullgr

> Does it consums much of power? Because on my dual core CS2 gets nutty nutty at some points.


no, i run cs with no problems. vmware must be configured good to work photoshop smooth (2 cpu's, 512 ram, allocated disk space).

----------


## barmazal

have 1gb ddr, is there any tutorial how to set up vmware the way you mentioned? though it sucks to have Windows on Ubuntu but it seems the most solid solution.

----------


## Perfect Storm

> 2.Pixel is useless, with many bugs and very slow development. it supposed to be finish in 2005... i thing
> the development can't no more continue (technical issues). so, don't hope to work like photoshop at all.


Have you tried the pay version of Pixel, huh?
You may think it's useless but alot of people have a good use of it and besides beta 7 is going to released very soon.

----------


## barmazal

How can you pay for something is buggy in demo mod as Windows blue screen.  I don't think is right commercial trick, in this Czech guy place i would keep only Photoshop looking screenshots until commercial version is released.

----------


## bullgr

> Have you tried the pay version of Pixel, huh?
> You may think it's useless but alot of people have a good use of it and besides beta 7 is going to released very soon.


if you thing that pixel can be even close to photoshop keep dreaming...
or maybe until then i get old Age Pension
*I AM A PRO I MUST USE PHOTOSHOP AND I LIKE TO USE UBUNTU FOR OS IN MY WORKPLACE.*
if you don't accept this, then it's like you telling me "boot to winblows".

for the vmware howto i use go there
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=vmware
please note, you need a dual core cpu to run smoothly. if you have one, you will be amazed about the performance.

----------


## eldad87

Pixel look very promising, unlike gimp that is  hard to adapt afther 7 years that I'm using photoshop.

----------


## Perfect Storm

> if you thing that pixel can be even close to photoshop keep dreaming...
> or maybe until then i get old Age Pension
> *I AM A PRO I MUST USE PHOTOSHOP AND I LIKE TO USE UBUNTU FOR OS IN MY WORKPLACE.*
> if you don't accept this, then it's like you telling me "boot to winblows".
> 
> for the vmware howto i use go there
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...ghlight=vmware
> please note, you need a dual core cpu to run smoothly. if you have one, you will be amazed about the performance.


No need to be aggressive. I'm asking an honest and simple question if you have tried the pay version of of pixel, because you said it's buggy etc.

----------


## smartalecks

> No need to be aggressive. I'm asking an honest and simple question if you have tried the pay version of of pixel, because you said it's buggy etc.


I can vouch for him, I have the pay version (to support dev, but it's actually looking pretty good). I have the latest version, Beta 6, and it's pretty buggy, The text tool is pretty much unusable, and aside from the default brushes you can't really use any other brushes or make your own. Also, the interface is a bit glitchy and could use some smoothening. Some of the filters crash when using, as well.

BUT! The Beta 7, which is supposed to have corrected ALL these problems, as well as improving other features, is supposed to be a few weeks away from release (but then again, it was supposed to be months ago  :Sad:  see Pixel news).

----------


## bullgr

> No need to be aggressive. I'm asking an honest and simple question if you have tried the pay version of of pixel, because you said it's buggy etc.


i try pixel two times in the past and the last one was the demo of Pixel v1.0 Beta 6...
if found some serious problems in the stability of the program (minimize the window and the tool boxes disapears after maximizing again, sometime can't even load it).

and some tools are not that they must be. for example the clone tool (i don't go now in details) and the slice tool
are not functional as photoshop, not even in a dignified use.

and i believe that if even i buy the pay version there will be no difference. it is supposed that the demo version
of any program must impress the prospective buyer to finally choose to buy it.

i don't want to be offence to you, but i believe it's crazy to tell me someone "the demo version don't work well,
but if you buy it, then it's work good.

----------


## mech7

Pixel does not work indeed.. i can't even maximize it with it going bezerk.. also can't even press buttons. No way near a replacement of good old trusty photoshop  :Very Happy:

----------


## rejser

Iv'e tried gimp, worked worked with gimp, but still have to use photoshop through work because psd-files. Everything is psd. And actually Pixel managed to handle them. gimp can handle a few, very few. 
But sorry to say is that I belive that he has taken on a to large of a project for one man. And by taking money for the beta he will be forced to work on the program. wheter or not it is still a fun project. Which could lead to downfall. Hope not though.
Many of you argue that it's not open source or freeware. But hey, nothing in life is free. How much do you pay to the linux community? Maybe not money but time, code or something else.

----------


## Takeru27

I may try it when it gets better, but for now, I'm kind of stuck in windows because I refuse to use Gimp (used it for two years before getting Photoshop CS2). If I could find any way to run Photoshop within Ubuntu, I would be there in a flash. But if this gets better, and I'm hoping it does, I may get it and use that. It's looking great so far, but I'd rather not have to deal with all the bugs.

----------


## greymongrey

> If I could find any way to run Photoshop within Ubuntu, I would be there in a flash.


I use Photoshop 7 in Ubuntu with wine sometimes. It runs really well. I've read where CS2 is doable, I just haven't taken the time to bother to do it. 

I tried Pixel in Windows at work and it's terribly buggy. No way would I pay for it, sorry. The Gimp is much more usable at present.

----------


## mech7

> I use Photoshop 7 in Ubuntu with wine sometimes. It runs really well. I've read where CS2 is doable, I just haven't taken the time to bother to do it. 
> 
> I tried Pixel in Windows at work and it's terribly buggy. No way would I pay for it, sorry. The Gimp is much more usable at present.


Don't you have problems with PS 7 and the palletes? Everytime i need to to reset them, also i can't resize the save for web window... and the palletes still show up when i switch to a different app 0_o

----------


## greymongrey

> Don't you have problems with PS 7 and the palletes? Everytime i need to to reset them, also i can't resize the save for web window... and the palletes still show up when i switch to a different app 0_o


Yes, they do open incorrectly. However, I have learned that if I double click the top bar (active bar? or whatever it's called) of the palletes and then double click them to reopen them they display correctly. You can then save your work space and reuse it to keep the palletes displayed properly most of the time. I just close it when I'm finished. I don't like having a lot of apps open. I can see where this would be a problem with someone needing to keep it open and running other apps, however. 

I don't use it every day anymore anyway. I prefer the Gimp, to be honest.

----------


## YoungCthulhu

Gidday all,

I am completely new to full-functioned graphics packages.  Here are my first impressions of GIMP as a newbie...

I found GIMP a bit hard to get into on account of not being able to load up the GIMP-help programs.  Now I have done that I am hooked.  Believe it or not, haven't used layers until now!

I am presently drawing a dinosaur for my nephew that has 10 layers (so far) and I have found I can get so much more control this way.  I paint using gouache and watercolours but have always found these media to be fairly nerve-wracking: If you make a mistake you often have to throw it away and start again!  

Not so with the GIMP, what a hoot!  Stuff up and you just affect the one layer.  I am having a ball!   :Dancing:  

I might not be buying any more paint for a while.  :Shocked:  

Two questions now:

Is it possible to print out the GIMP help?  It is a big manual but apart from taking a screen-shop of salient bits I haven't found a way of doing this yet.I am thinking of getting a small Wacom digitiser tablet.  Is there a driver available?
Cheers  :Smile:

----------


## granite230

I just discovered a new image editor named Pixel. It's not free of charge, but it's not expensive either. Here you can find some info: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12

Could this be a "Gimp-killer"? I have no experience using the Gimp or using Pixel so I have no idea. 

Any opinions?

----------


## mech7

It is not that new it looks ok from the screenshots untill you try to run it and find out how buggy it is.

----------


## granite230

> I just discovered a new image editor named Pixel. It's not free of charge, but it's not expensive either. Here you can find some info: http://www.kanzelsberger.com/pixel/?page_id=12
> 
> Could this be a "Gimp-killer"? I have no experience using the Gimp or using Pixel so I have no idea. 
> 
> Any opinions?


I'm sorry, my 'new thread' was moved to this thread because the search feature on this forum didn't find anything when I tried to search for 'Pixel' or 'Gimp'.

*starts reading this thread*  :Mr. Green:

----------


## bubbalouie

> how Silly!!!


I wouldn't take things too personally. People with strong opinions on things will sometimes feel threatened or take offense to anything that threatens/questions the beliefs they hold. In this case some people do not like paying for software, which is fine, they can use free stuff. 

I love OSS, it is fantastic, but programmers need to eat, so we have commercial software (as you obviously well know). I have been trying to find an alternative to PSP for linux and Pixel is just that by the look of things, thanks for sharing your find, I was getting quite disheartened with the offerings (even though gimpshop and Krita arell quite impressive even 90% there, but that 10% is what I need), pixel is just what I wanted. If i still like it in a week, I will buy a copy. 

If no one supports commercial software on Linux, than linux will never gain a decent market share, we need companies to port to linux, and they won't do that unless the platform is viable. If peoples pet applications don't get ported or have alternatives (as is the case with some commercial niche apps, Protel 99SE & Nokia suite for me) then businesses and individuals will still have a hard time switching.

Once again, thanks for your post, it has helped me a lot  :Smile:

----------


## anv

Artist can use several tools and I recommend to learn many softwares instead of one. Earlier when commercials wee done by hands and taken repros, ideas were richer and usually when someone uses one tool it marks the result. In the name of creativity I see it welcome when there is several tools, but usually when people try to get easy they use one and start to believe that the one tool or brand is the only acceptable. 

 Worst thing is that people who run schools and buy in some softwares they often get offers or some other benefits like, free upgrades, or something else and when those places share just one kind of thinking from one manufacturer I think it is dangerous. Places where students should learn creativity are full by solutions which have bought one or two workers, who can even work on branch and even be resellers for some of softwares. And then students learn for exsample this Photoshop as I did also, which isn't any better than any other competitor, as from Corel family or Gimp or some others. It is just because interface is learned in two three years and it has become comfortable to use, people often get scared to try some new solution which could actually be better. I heard from some psychologist that it takes 21 days to learn out from some habit, it can differ but I believe that the amount is quite close in this case when we don't speak of any dependency kind of sickness  :Smile:  


I use:

Gimp - Bitmap editing

Inkscape - vector

Blender+Realsoft 3D - as 3D modeling tools

nvu - making basic structures of websites

Jahshaka, Cinelerra, ... - video editing

and more...

+ several music production softwares

 :KDE Star:

----------


## dergringo

The author of Pixel, namely Pavel Kanzelsberger, seems to be some kind of unpolite. Let me quote:



> [...] And I hope everything around you is opensource, you know trees, flowers, air, everything. Opensource is nice if there are those geeks to work on it, I'm not one of them, I'll rather spend my free time having real life instead of sitting in front of computer.


The source of this quote is here: http://portableapps.com/node/4697

I don't want to slander it's just that you know. Do with this information whatever you want.

Regards

Philipp

----------


## JC_510

I hated GIMP at first too. But I saw how many people swore by the program, so I spent a little time trying to get to grips with it. I've only just started spending a lot of time with it, but it is already beginning to pay off, and i'm starting to realise what a powerful program the GIMP really is.

Give it some time, look at the tutorials on the GIMP website, and *here*, and i'm sure your opinion will change soon enough.

----------


## karellen

gimp in linux, paint.net in windows. why pay when there's a free alternative suited for my needs?

----------


## burt_57

> While I won't be buying Pixel, and I do like the GIMP as a whole, the fact that the GIMP completely takes over my taskbar has always annoyed me.  I like the single window interface of Pixel, and would like to play with it, but I'm a poor college student, and I just don't want to pay for it or have to pay for it in the future.
> 
> P.S.-If anybody knows of a way to get the GIMP to be contained all in one window, please let me know.  I will be forever grateful


GIMP in one windows .yap that I would like to see.
Photoshop CS2 user for 5 years I am
Like to see my work inone windows only..
Trying GIMP realy bugg me, but maybe they will find a way to make it work in a single window.

----------


## miLl3niUm

GIMP ftw

----------


## gribelu

Most of you are really not getting the point.

Pixel isn't supposed to replace Gimp.. as you said, it's too different. It's supposed to replace Photoshop under Linux. And Gimp does have a weird interface.. i prefer running Photoshop in a VM instead of spending months to get as efficient with Gimp. But i think i could quickly learn Pixel.. well.. when it will be finished. Maybe it will suck, but i like it so far.
Btw, one of the main things that's missing from Gimp is adjustment layers. Not to mention the latest additions to Photoshop like 'smart objects' and 'smart filters'
I just tried the latest beta (6) and it has way less bugs than it had a year ago when i first tried it.

Overall, i think it is very promising. It is commercial but since i have no FOSS alternatives, that's ok.

I can't wait to see what the final version will look like... although i probably would be happier with Photoshop4Linux  :Sad:

----------


## UI-Freak

Too many fanboys here...  :Sick:  Fanboyism is a real problem for progress and reflection. Well, your loss.

----------


## ArtInvent

I haven't tried Pixel. However, one of the major problems with Gimp vs Photoshop is that Gimp does not do CMYK or 16 bit per pixel. Pixel states that it can do these modes. Not having these modes is a pretty awful limitation for print graphics professionals and advanced photograhers. This means that Gimp and hence pretty much all Linux is out of reach to these people. This is really a shame in that this is a lot of people who I think would otherwise really dig Linux.

I would also point out that I have no problems using Gimp to actually edit photos. It's a very sophisticated and stable program. The actual tools are not that different from Photoshop and the procedural differences make perfect sense and aren't that difficult to learn with a little effort. HOWEVER as has oft been mentioned, one thing that is just infuriating and should be changed is that it does not all exist in one window, like virtually every other program in the _universe_. This means it totally goobers your taskbar with tabs and can't be minimized/restored easily. I can't for the life of me figure out why this hasn't been changed. I don't see why it couldn't at least be made _optional_ to stick all the windows in one window. I have never read any defense of this layout probably because it has no conceivable advantage. And I suspect that most of the people who dislike the Gimp (and there are lots) really dislike it for this reason, or at least it's the cause of the most aggravation. For me it's a great program that I pretty much hate to have to open for that one reason. 

So I have a virtual machine with Windows and Photoshop and CorelDraw on it. Argh.

----------


## King_Critter

> HOWEVER as has oft been mentioned, one thing that is just infuriating and should be changed is that it does not all exist in one window, like virtually every other program in the _universe_. This means it totally goobers your taskbar with tabs and can't be minimized/restored easily. I can't for the life of me figure out why this hasn't been changed. I don't see why it couldn't at least be made _optional_ to stick all the windows in one window. I have never read any defense of this layout probably because it has no conceivable advantage. And I suspect that most of the people who dislike the Gimp (and there are lots) really dislike it for this reason, or at least it's the cause of the most aggravation. For me it's a great program that I pretty much hate to have to open for that one reason.


True, but it is rather easy to change, if not to a perfect photoshop clone, then pretty darn close.

Check out this screenshot to see what I'm talking about. As you can see, the only window that shows up on the taskbar is whatever image (or images) are currently open. The two toolbox things are stuck to the active image, so when you alt tab you're only alt tabbing one window.

----------


## airtonix

install beryl..
install the wndow grouping plugin

love how gimp behaves as though its got tabbed documents now

stop whinging bout MDI and SDI

----------


## marksman7328

People, there is no alternative to Photoshop. End of story.

----------


## hikaricore

> People, there is no alternative to Photoshop. End of story.


Only your third post and you manage to fail quite gracefully.

Well done.

----------


## teh'p3nsi0n3r

> People, there is no alternative to Photoshop. End of story.


thats like saying there is no alternative to windows lol   :Rolling Eyes:

----------


## weblordpepe

Thats like saying there's no cheese on my pie. Wait, no it isnt..

----------


## mech7

> thats like saying there is no alternative to windows lol


that is because it is.. photoshop is in league of it's own

----------


## psyopper

Sorry I'm coming to this conversation late, I just showed up to Ubuntu last month and this is the first I've browsed the Art section of this forum.

I have to give my vote to GimpShop. I am a long term user of Photoshop (from 6 through CS2) and I even got CS running under WINE on 7.04. But I thought to myself - why not try the Gimp? I hated it too until I stumbled upon GimpShop. 

It DOES look just like Gimp, but... it behaves almost as intuitively as Photoshop. I wrote a rather amateurish review of GimpShop in 3 parts on my blog, the point of which is to introduce GimpShop to Photoshop users so they can see how they coincide iin a usability aspect. 

Ther is a .deb of Gimpshop available on their download page. There is now CMYK support for the OS10.3 version (anyone feel like some porting/compiling?). There is a deweirdifyer plug-in for the Windows version that has been ported and updated for Gimp 2.2 via RPM (and I'll give bonus points to anyone who can get it into Ubuntu or .deb).

Read me thoughts here, and please go easy on me, I'm also new to the blogosphere though I've been computing since 1997.

----------


## elamd

Pixel sucks.

I bought it about 4 years ago for $28.00 because it looked pretty good and the demo ran okay, if quite buggy.  But I figured I was supporting this guy so he could refine Pixel into a true Photoshop alternative. 

I forgot about it and looked it up again 4 months ago and bought a new license.  Same ****, different day.  It's just as buggy as before and Pavel has no conception of deadlines.  He's always promising a new beta and it doesn't happen.  Go read the news releases and comments and forums.

I've come to the conclusion that he isn't a very good programmer or a rather sloppy one or both.  Pixel get's a lot of hype( my own included) because it looks great.  Performs like poop.

Oh well.  Here's hoping Adobe has a Linux port somewhere in the Skunkworks.

----------


## Extreme Coder

I just tried Pixel out, and I think it's pretty good. It's interface is usable (I'm looking at you GIMP). Keep in mind that I know nothing about 8-bit/16-bit stuff and CMYK, whatever that is. I only saw Photoshop once in my life, never used it. And quite honestly, I don't care if it's the industry standard. I've been stuck in MANY positions where I want to edit a picture and I just try to avoid so, because I can't use the GIMP AT ALL. Sorry, but if I can't do very basic stuff, after trying for hours to get something done in GIMP, then something is wrong. I'm still holding buying a Pixel license until I see Beta 8 released.[/rant]

Extreme Coder

----------


## beefcurry

it depends what alternative is, one that looks or feels like photoshop? then PIXEL wins. One that dominates and works extremely well as a graphics manipulation program? then I would have to vote GIMP  :Very Happy: , wasnt too hard to get used to the shortcuts, but now I'm really bad when using photoshop as a result.

----------


## starbase1

Well... In my view, Gimp is not at all bad - the interface is a bit unusual but not difficult.

In some cases the lack of some features is something of a benefit - lack of clutter is a good thing, and is also why I tend to use PS elements more than the full PS (I have both).

But it really is no substitute for Photoshop. The two real killers for me are lack of support for 16 bit channels, and lack of reliable native photoshop filter support. Any serious competition really must have those, (And CMYK support).

----------


## psyopper

> But [GIMP] really is no substitute for Photoshop. The two real killers for me are lack of support for 16 bit channels, and lack of reliable native photoshop filter support. Any serious competition really must have those, (And CMYK support).


Have you looked at pspi? It's a GIMP plugin to support Photoshop plugins... Haven't tried it and can't vouch for it because I was never in need for a plugin, I usually tried to test my creative skill (and frequently failed) to come up with creative solutions.

----------


## burt_57

Just so that you all now this............ there is no alternative to Adobe Photoshop CS2.
Like there is many OS and they look all diff. I prefer Adobe to any other image editor.
Some like Windows.other like Apple and some Linux.
So what is the big deal.
Matter of choice right !

----------


## kopilo

Personally I like illustrator much better then photoshop.. I actually find photoshop rather redundant and as for transparencies... gimp handles that much better, whilst this program does look interesting I think I`ll stay with my mix of inkscape and gimp till something better comes out.

----------


## richtard

> Personally I like illustrator much better then photoshop.. I actually find photoshop rather redundant and as for transparencies... gimp handles that much better, whilst this program does look interesting I think I`ll stay with my mix of inkscape and gimp till something better comes out.


But Illustrator and photoshop are two very different programs meant for two completely different things, as the names imply.You might as well say -  I prefer pen, ink and canvas to a photographic enlarger and light sensitive paper.  Or I like shoes much more than vests.

Couldn't get PIXEL to run on 64bit Ubuntu. Looks quite good, but the comments on the PIXEL website are quite telling; it looks as though it may well be years before its ever out of beta.

----------


## kopilo

or I like benches to stand on better then foot ladders... Humans naturally use products for more then they are designed for and considering illustrator does include a lot of pixel editing tools in one form or another (eg glossen blur). I`d say it can be used more then what it was designed for.

----------


## rhardie

I do some digital photography and there is little that can match the Adobe Lightroom application for RAW image format.  I have not found any OSS application with the same level of functionality as the Adobe product and I'd certainly pay $300 for the application to get my work done.

I play around with Linux and it's applications (in my off-time) to learn and migrate from Windows, but if I have a job to do, then I gotta get it done because my time and energy is worth MONEY (which is not a bad word, by the way).

If there is a 'free' open source program that does what I need, then I'm gonna load it on my computer and use it.  If there is a choice between OSS with less functionality and a non-OSS application that is highly developed, then I use the non-open source.

I like OSS and support the competition with MS (and I don't 'hate' Microsoft)

----------


## BrokeBody

Paint.NET

I heard that Google sponsored Paint.NET Mono project.

----------


## ububaba

If I am not installing Pixel what alternatives do I have of converting RAW format files to jpeg?

----------


## BLTicklemonster

> GIMP in one windows .yap that I would like to see.
> Photoshop CS2 user for 5 years I am
> Like to see my work inone windows only..
> Trying GIMP realy bugg me, but maybe they will find a way to make it work in a single window.


Close:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.p...highlight=gimp

Just pretend your desktop is the window... at least you only have two things to keep up with now. In PS Cs2, it's all in one window, but man, there's like 5 or 6 different little thingies going on all over it.

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## boozereaper

photoshop has always been the way to go for me.

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## beefcurry

> If I am not installing Pixel what alternatives do I have of converting RAW format files to jpeg?


try UFRAW

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## Half-Left

> Just so that you all now this............ there is no alternative to Adobe Photoshop CS2.
> Like there is many OS and they look all diff. I prefer Adobe to any other image editor.
> Some like Windows.other like Apple and some Linux.
> So what is the big deal.
> Matter of choice right !


How Ironic is it that OS X Photoshop is setup like GIMP but Windows Photoshop is in one window. Most use Mac for professional design and they dont moan about the canvas not being in the same window, infact thats one of the feature they like about GIMP.

Fact is the Windows people like to think that there way is standard and every other is wrong.

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## burt_57

> I do some digital photography and there is little that can match the Adobe Lightroom application for RAW image format.  I have not found any OSS application with the same level of functionality as the Adobe product and I'd certainly pay $300 for the application to get my work done.
> 
> I play around with Linux and it's applications (in my off-time) to learn and migrate from Windows, but if I have a job to do, then I gotta get it done because my time and energy is worth MONEY (which is not a bad word, by the way).
> 
> If there is a 'free' open source program that does what I need, then I'm gonna load it on my computer and use it.  If there is a choice between OSS with less functionality and a non-OSS application that is highly developed, then I use the non-open source.
> 
> I like OSS and support the competition with MS (and I don't 'hate' Microsoft)


Wrong you are. I have Raw Shooter and find it much better than the Adobe raw.
Oh by the way you can not buy Raw Shooter pro anymore.
Like some OS buy everybody else so did  Adobe, they bought them out..... darn it where is the competition.
Raw Shooter is the best. I know cause I have them both Adobe raw and Shooter.
Hum Wonder if I could install or make it run in Linux , that would be nice.

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## ububaba

Thanks I'll try.

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## salehid

Thanks ...

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## brian j

http://www-old.lightcrafts.com/linux/      LightZone for Linux
http://rawstudio.org/                                   Rawstudio
http://www.rawtherapee.com/                  THe Experimental RAw Photo Editor

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## eheyl

Would you say that gimp is good for laying out the elements of a webpage (a la fireworks)? And the interface is starting to grow on me, but I do wonder if anyone has used it to create textures for 3D??

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## eheyl

hmm. looked at the gimp official site and it says that the main version is 2.4.0 and its stable. In ubuntu its 2.4.0 release candidate 3. I did apt-get as they suggest and it says that I've already got the most recent version. Also, how do you get the windows in gimp to dock like in the screenshots??

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## dgrafix

first of all, Gimp is a good capable program with a great friendly community.

However, I find gimp difficult too comming from a PSP background, the whole separate window thing and when you zoom in the window doesnt expand, your tools dissapear under the painting etc. Just little things like that are hard to get used to.

Also @those on page 1, whats wrong with occasionally paying for software? Not everyone (including myself as an 'indie' developer) can write programs that will bring bread to the table by donations, support and advertising like the big & massively popular open source companies can. I will buy programs if i find it useful,  Shareware with a trial period, is a nice point between the 'freeness' of open source and the cutthroat software monopolies, certainly where the small fish (like me) are concerned.

I say support shareware!!, after all very few people will develop apps for absoulutely nothing (Including the majority of 'free' software) and by supporting shareware you are increasing the attractiveness of linux to the rest of the world because the number one reason in my experience for people going back to windows is lack of software choice. 

So, thanks for the heads up on this program i shall look at it when i get home.

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## BLTicklemonster

Bah, I've used them both (and more), and though I love photoshop (trying to get it to work in wine, but with no luck), I use GIMP the most. The complaining about gimp having a different layout, in my opinion, is invalid. Difference is good. It makes you use your brain. Embrace the differences! Or something like that.

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## Ralphie

Gimp is good for simple and quick image editing... resizing, small color changes, I use it all the time for this. Sure it is different but once you figure it out, it does the job.
If I'm working on a piece that matters -- i use photoshop CS3 through VirtualBox. no doubt about it, if you are serious, Adobe products are the way to go.

All you open source guys cant change my mind here, if you were to apply for a graphic design job and you put on your resume, "i know Gimp Shop like the back of my hand" you would not even get an interview.

Pixel looks pretty nice / user friendly, but I would probably not use it because I already pay a grip for Adobe products.
If you are one who wants a program to run natively in linux, and work like PS, pixel looks like the best choice, and in which case, would be worth the money.

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## k99goran

> I say support shareware!!


I say don't support shareware. They are the software equivalent of Spam. Tons of abandoned or under-developed 30 days trial software that keeps piling up on Tucows and similar sites waiting for unwary users to bite the bullet. Personally I don't use any shareware.

Anyway, back to the GIMP issue... I don't care much for the theory that most people prefer Photoshop over GIMP because that's what they are used to. GIMP simply looks primitive when compared to Photoshop (and most other applications).

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## potentia

> I don't care much for the theory that most people prefer Photoshop over GIMP because that's what they are used to. GIMP simply looks primitive when compared to Photoshop (and most other applications).


I has nothing to do with habbits or the look or even GUI. GIMP simply hasn't got the professional features that Photoshop users are used to and cant replace with the rather primitive feature set in GIMP. You don't just buy Photoshop if you don't need it, it is too expensive. Don't assume that Photoshop uses are drooling morons that do not know what they need to get their job done. They have plenty of choice if they cannot afford Photoshop.

Claims that GIMP is superior are just ridiculous. Fanatic. Featurewise GIMP is lightyears behind. Krita has some of these features, but performs like a 100 year old kick boxer.

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## starbase1

> All you open source guys cant change my mind here, if you were to apply for a graphic design job and you put on your resume, "i know Gimp Shop like the back of my hand" you would not even get an interview.


Now that's just silly. My photoshop skills are very, very basic, but I have had loads and loads of CD covers published, and no one has ever asked about the tools I use. They look at the images.

In a team environment you will be expected to use the same tool as everyone else, but that is in order to fit in with workflow, and nothing to directly do with the quality of the tool.

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## dgrafix

> I say don't support shareware. They are the software equivalent of Spam. Tons of abandoned or under-developed 30 days trial software that keeps piling up on Tucows and similar sites waiting for unwary users to bite the bullet. Personally I don't use any shareware.


 Bite what bullet? You really dont know what you are talking about do you. Unfinished software has no right to call itself shareware and (should) be removed if not in a beta state.  If software is unfinished it should be labeled as beta so the person downloading it knows to expect problems. I can name you Tons of abandoned or under-developed  'Free' software that is also floating around the net too so i dont see your point. Do you even know what spam is?

 You are basically saying the only people that can write software and get paid for it are the corporations and the open source giants who have enough fingers in "other pies" that they can afford to do it for free. What do you do for your day job? How would you feel if a coroprate monster came in and pushed you aside? Or how about if another large company took over and did it for free but got paid by other people (eg, charity and corporate sponsorship) im sure you would feel very different. 

If some members of the open source community (im talking the zealots here, not everyone!) dont get off their high horse and acknowlage that some people NEED to get paid for what they do then the choice of software on linux will remain limited. People will still NEED software choice and people will keep on booting windows. I personally know gimp is good, i use it a lot, but it doesnt do everything does it? where are all the alternatives? The idea of 'free' software is NOT about forcing someone to use something just because its 'free', its about freedom of choice, otherwise it becomes as bad as the monopolies it initially set out to destroy.

The original poster has found a very useful bit of software and good on him. Ive used it and it seems very useable. Im going to TRY it and if i like it or does something gimp doesnt i will buy it. Whats the problem?
The ubuntu community should be thanking him not flaming!

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## k99goran

> Unfinished software has no right to call itself shareware...


Yet it does.



> You really dont know what you are talking about do you.


I have downloaded and used a lot of shareware, so I know something.



> You are basically saying the only people that can write software and get paid for it are the corporations and the open source giants who have enough fingers in "other pies" that they can afford to do it for free.


No I am not saying that, nor did I say it, nor am I basically saying it. I said that I have used a lot of shareware and it tends to be crap. And I said that for this reason I no longer use shareware.



> What do you do for your day job? How would you feel if a coroprate monster came in and pushed you aside? Or how about if another large company took over and did it for free but got paid by other people (eg, charity and corporate sponsorship) im sure you would feel very different.


You are going to give yourself a heart attack.



> If some members of the open source community (im talking the zealots here, not everyone!) dont get off their high horse and acknowlage that some people NEED to get paid for what they do then the choice of software on linux will remain limited.


I am not on a high horse, nor do I consider myself a member of the open source community in particular. If I were as you describe, would I be criticizing GIMP?

My point is that, one of the things I don't like about Windows as a platform is the mass of badly written shareware and trialware that gunks up your system and then never uninstalls properly. I prefer free software, not so much for the non-existent sticker price, but because there is less hassle.

I have only used Pixel for a short period of time. It crashed a lot, but  was also in Beta. But the thing is, as long as it cannot be bundled with the Ubuntu distribution it cannot replace GIMP.

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## meho_r

GIMP vs. PS: well, I think the key point in design is how creative you are, not how powerful app is (of course, it matters, just to be clear). I saw people do things in GIMP that are at same quality level as those done in PS. Also, look at some other apps like Inkscape -- if you compare it with Illustrator, i.e., you will say Inkscape is 'spartan', but look what people did in it and you'll see that your knowledge of app and your creativeness is the most important. Of course, getting a job is another story  :Wink:

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## dgrafix

> My point is that, one of the things I don't like about Windows as a platform is the mass of badly written shareware and trialware that gunks up your system and then never uninstalls properly. I prefer free software, not so much for the non-existent sticker price, but because there is less hassle.


 How is free/open software any different?, it still installs and can leave junk behind in the same way. The problems you describe can also be partly blamed on the fact that windows is total crud.

Sorry for ranting (most was aimed at earlier posts too), but to compare honest shareware to spam is insulting at best. I write shareware (and a few free) programs and i have never spammed anyone or forced anyone to buy my stuff. My windows software can easly be deleted by a remove from control panel (and a delete from prog files if you want to remove the settings ) and its gone without a trace, just like any other decent off the shelf or open/free program. I strongly oppose this notion that some people seem to have that commercial software doesnt belong on this platform.
Linux NEEDS commercial software if it is going to have a large application base that will be taken seriously by the majority of PC users. What alternative or better way is there than shareware for developers who do not have the presence or resources to do otherwise? User can try it, if they dont like it then they simply dont buy it.

End of rant,

Back on topic,
Ive never really liked photoshop or the gimp to be honest, i always prefered paintshop pro personally, and am still seeking a linux solution for that one. Gimp is very very powerful but it doesnt feel as 'comfortable' or as logical to use as paintshop and photoshop is simply overkill and overprice for what i need it for.

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## potentia

> GIMP vs. PS: well, I think the key point in design is how creative you are, not how powerful app is (of course, it matters, just to be clear). I saw people do things in GIMP that are at same quality level as those done in PS. Also, look at some other apps like Inkscape -- if you compare it with Illustrator, i.e., you will say Inkscape is 'spartan', but look what people did in it and you'll see that your knowledge of app and your creativeness is the most important. Of course, getting a job is another story


It still doesn't matter when you are a professional. You can't use your forehead instead of a hammer, and you can't do LAB color enhancements without LAB color support. It is not about substituting features with creativity and how-to's. The feautures are just not there for certain things that are impossible without the professional features. Thats why people use Photoshop in the first place instead of many other alternatives. It is the leader. Period. No one would claim that Paint Shop Pro was better than Photoshop either, and PSP is ahead of GIMP as well.

It is fair to compare GIMP with many smaller programs, but GIMP vs Photoshop is a hilarious comparison. It is like comparing a bike with a car!

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## meho_r

Yes, I agree. Lack of some modes in GIMP is a pity, especially CMYK support. I hope that developers will change this in future. PS is the best and there's no point to deny it. But still most of things that can be made in PS can be made in GIMP too, maybe just on some other way. And without howto's and books one will not get far with PS either. The sweet thing in OSS is that you can combine couple of apps using their strong sides in accomplishing a task. 

BTW, comparison 'bike' - 'car' definitely doesn't stand.

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## dgrafix

@ potentia exactly. Which is why more choice is a good thing wether free or not.

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## qamelian

> Gimp is good for simple and quick image editing... resizing, small color changes, I use it all the time for this.


Once you learn how to use it well it can be used for larger job, as well. There was an article in Linux Format magazine a few months ago that spot-lighted a few professional artists who use GIMP instead of Photoshop for all or most of their work. Personally, for the professional graphics jobs that I do as a sideline to my regular job, I haven't touch Photoshop since 2001. It's all done in GIMP, except for vector work for which I use Inkscape.

@mehro: I do deny that PS is best and I deny it vehemently. I find the PS interface to be clumsy and cluttered. I gets in the way of my work. The GIMP interface is much more flexible and let's me get on with my work. And despite occasional challenges from my "bet you can't do this with it" co-workers, I have never found _any_ task that required me to revert to PS. In many cases, solutions I discovered or created in GIMP, worked as well or better than the equivalent in PS. Which is the better app is purely subjective. From where I sit, GIMP is many times superior to PS.

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## potentia

But still, interface aside, some need specific features. Any program that does offer them, ANY, cannot even be considered. Consider yourself lucky, I would actually like to save some money. PS is expensive, but usually well worth the cost when I compare my output to other programs.

I used GIMP when I only needed a program for web graphics. Now that I work with RAW images and advanced photo retouching using channels, layers and color modes, I can only used much more advanced programs. Thats why I compared a bike with a car. The difference is really that big.

Anyway, take a look at Krita.

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## cotcot

I fully agree with an earlier poster. GIMP has a good manual and Grokking the Gimp is also a very good reference book. Taking enough time to walk through these will help a lot.
There are tools to organise Gimp (for instance docking tools).µ
Complaints arise also when people are just used to for example photoshop. If they would have gimp as first contact with image manipulation, maybe they would complain not getting used to photoshop. 
On the other hand if the complaint is about 16bit then I agree. Hopefully gimp 2.6 will have 16 bit possibilities (I read something about it).

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## dgrafix

I appreciate people sticking up for gimp, its an excellent program. But why should 'people' HAVE to get used to something? Unless the program is lightyears ahead of what you are comming from, whats the point?  Take me, i do a fair bit of graphics work, things i can do fairly easilly and quickly in my known program. In gimp it takes me ages simply because things dont do what i expect  (like the window increasing when zooming for example, in gimp, the window stays a thumbnail and i get scrollbars!?!!?). This kind of thing annoys me because I dont want to retrain for a program that offers me no more than paintshop pro!! (of course i would feel different if it did), This is comming from somone who has been using 'the gimp' for much longer than the proverbial 5 minutes.
Unless its something very special offered I would rather work the way ive worked for the last so many years, but i dont want to use windows either, which is why I think  that there should be more software choice (be it free or shareware) on linux. Some people love the way the gimp works and feels, others dont. It seems to me that people just settle for the best thing available and religiously defend by scoffing at anyone who says they dont like it, rather than pushing for more variety (by supporting both free and non free software?),

Put it this way, I would love to delete the horrid virtual machine i have to start to do several things simply because theres no alternative (by my particular preference) available for linux & that dont run on wine. I would happily pay full price for a paintshop pro 9 clone.

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## Ralphie

> I appreciate people sticking up for gimp, its an excellent program. But why should we have to get used to something? Some people like to work the way they have always worked when migrating. Take me, i do a fair bit of graphics work, things i can do fairly easilly and quickly in my known program. In gimp it takes me ages simply because things dont do what i expect  (like the window increasing when zooming for example, in gimp, the window stays a thumbnail and i get scrollbars!?!!?) I dont want to retrain, i like to work the way ive worked for the last so many years, but i dont want to use windows either which is why I think  that there should be more software choice (be it free or shareware) on linux. Some people love the way the gimp works and feels, others dont. It seems to me that people just settle for the best thing available and religiously defend it rather than pushing for more variety,


I agree with what your saying here, and perhaps another explanation might be some of these people ARE native GIMP users, hence, no problem with it. 

Being a native Adobe user I find some things frustratingly different, and even more time consuming. something as simple as resizing an image has proven to be more of a task than it should.

Another nice thing about adobe is all of the programs in the CS act alike, where as you have to know different shortcuts for each program made by different people in these open source programs, just something else that sort of hinders a good workflow between apps. 
I suppose all of this could be learned and grown accustom to, but when you've got it down, and it is very easy already, it is hard to want to change.

to tell you the truth I am probably a little biased anyways because i want to make good use of the money ive spent on adobe  :Smile:

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## Paul820

> (like the window increasing when zooming for example, in gimp, the window stays a thumbnail and i get scrollbars!?!!?)


Gimp does resize the windows when zooming, you have to set it in the preferences.

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## qamelian

> But still, interface aside, some need specific features. Any program that does offer them, ANY, cannot even be considered. Consider yourself lucky, I would actually like to save some money. PS is expensive, but usually well worth the cost when I compare my output to other programs.
> 
> I used GIMP when I only needed a program for web graphics. Now that I work with RAW images and advanced photo retouching using channels, layers and color modes, I can only used much more advanced programs. Thats why I compared a bike with a car. The difference is really that big.
> 
> Anyway, take a look at Krita.


So far, there is nothing that I can do in Photoshop that I can't do in GIMP. Co-workers try to challenge me with this all the time and they have yet to stymie me. The approach may be different in GIMP, but I still get it done. If you think something can't be done in GIMP, you just haven't learned how to to use the whole app yet.

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## dgrafix

> Gimp does resize the windows when zooming, you have to set it in the preferences.


 thanks for that, thats one of my list of many changes i would like to see  :Smile:  Its odd i havent seen that before :/
(mabe you can help me wth no 1. how on earth do i dock the tools on the side of the screen without having something dissapear under something else? the only semi-acceptable solution i have found is 'always on top')




> So far, there is nothing that I can do in Photoshop that I can't do in GIMP. Co-workers try to challenge me with this all the time and they have yet to stymie me. The approach may be different in GIMP, but I still get it done. If you think something can't be done in GIMP, you just haven't learned how to to use the whole app yet.


 I dont think the argument here is weather the gimp is capable or not, it is, very capable. The argument is that the gimp FEELS horrible for people comming from industry standard packages such as PSP and PS. It really doesnt offer any more than these progs,  so its easier to boot a VM or something rather than re-train themselves to use a program which while very capable, needs a big ergonomic learning curve away from the 'industry standard' and at the end of the day offers nothing more (except the price of course  :Smile:  however id rather pay than compramise)

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## Paul820

I think you mean this. Set the windows to utility windows and click the checkbox next to focus. The tools palette and layers palette and any docks you open will stay above the image you are working on. If you get to know the shortcuts keys you can put the docks on one workspace and have the image you are working on on another. Everything is still available by right clicking on the main image window or from the menu bar at the top.

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## dgrafix

I do use that feature when using gimp, but it still isnt right.

Is it possible to get a layout like this, that behaves like this, that loads every time like this, without having to set it up each time and without the tools as a separate window, without using 'gimpshop' (which is about as stable as a card stack in an earthquake)?:
http://www.getpaint.net/screenshots/pdn26_seattle.jpg

Ive tried arranging the gimp windows just right, but it never seems to stay how i want it.

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## potentia

> So far, there is nothing that I can do in Photoshop that I can't do in GIMP. Co-workers try to challenge me with this all the time and they have yet to stymie me. The approach may be different in GIMP, but I still get it done. If you think something can't be done in GIMP, you just haven't learned how to to use the whole app yet.


Hehe, dream on. Thats your situation. Not mine.

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## dgrafix

@paul820, i tried that zoom thing and it still gives me scrollbars and a thumbnail when using shift+mousewheel.

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## Paul820

If you have 'save window positions on exit' checked it will save those, even new dialogues that you have opened. As for the full screen window it won't save that as it's based on the size of the image you open or make. Docks can be arranged in hundreds of different ways, just rip them out and put them somewhere else.

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## Paul820

> @paul820, i tried that zoom thing and it still gives me scrollbars and a thumbnail when using shift+mousewheel.


Use Ctrl+scroll wheel.

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## MrGnu

As a "Native" Photoshop user since 1997, The transition to the Gimp only took about 3 Months, And Yes our Business now uses Gimp exclusively (Gimp 2:4). In fact I have recently seen on this forum somebody got a real slagging off for using the gimp professionally. The author of the post that gave the slagging obviously isn't in any way a professional of any sorts!!

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## dgrafix

(i meant control  :Capital Razz: ) is it possible to just use mousewheel?




> As a "Native" Photoshop user since 1997, The transition to the Gimp only took about 3 Months, And Yes our Business now uses Gimp exclusively (Gimp 2:4). In fact I have recently seen on this forum somebody got a real slagging off for using the gimp professionally. The author of the post that gave the slagging obviously isn't in any way a professional of any sorts!!


 Whos slagging? im not, the gimp IS a good bit o kit. I would love to be able to use it as easily as its competitors, unfortunately i barely have enough time to create let alone    480 man hours spare to learn it, as it is so.... 'quirky', and offers me no more than what i already have - except the fact i have to boot a VM.

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## meho_r

> @mehro: I do deny that PS is best and I deny it vehemently. I find the PS interface to be clumsy and cluttered. I gets in the way of my work. The GIMP interface is much more flexible and let's me get on with my work. And despite occasional challenges from my "bet you can't do this with it" co-workers, I have never found _any_ task that required me to revert to PS. In many cases, solutions I discovered or created in GIMP, worked as well or better than the equivalent in PS. Which is the better app is purely subjective. From where I sit, GIMP is many times superior to PS.


Nice  :Very Happy: 

When I first installed Linux on my HD it last about 30 min then quick reformat, reinstall of Win and I said 'What a crap was that!' just because it was different of what I've been used to (Win). I'm so glad that I didn't give up at first impressions. Now I regret of those years spent with Win :Wink:  Same with GIMP -- first impression wasn't good because I was used to PS interface and 'logic'. But after some time spent reading I realized how nice and powerful app GIMP is. Well, for me, GIMP+Krita+Inkscape+Xara+Scribus and there's nothing that can't be done in graphics domain  :Very Happy:  I like Adobe, but simply don't need it anymore...

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## meho_r

BTW, there's a veeeeery nice book about GIMP: ''Beginning GIMP - From novice to professional'', by Akkana Peck.

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## Paul820

> As a "Native" Photoshop user since 1997, The transition to the Gimp only took about 3 Months, And Yes our Business now uses Gimp exclusively (Gimp 2:4). In fact I have recently seen on this forum somebody got a real slagging off for using the gimp professionally. The author of the post that gave the slagging obviously isn't in any way a professional of any sorts!!


It's nice to hear from someone who uses gimp in a professional environment.

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## william_nbg

This thread has gone from a Pixel promo spot to a Gimp vs Photoshop.

I work almost daily with Gimp. True, I'm a web designer for a small company and most of the graphics I have to do are for web sites, though I sometimes get asked to do small ad, business cards etc ...

It took me a few months to get used to the Gimp, but now, I'm very happy with the app and couldn't imagine going back to Photoshop.

And 2.4 is a great version.

I sometimes get large batches of pictures for galleries, and I've recently discovered Imagemagick for batch work. A great time saver.

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## dgrafix

> This thread has gone from a Pixel promo spot to a Gimp vs Photoshop.


 well, it is 2 years old  :Razz:

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## Crafty Kisses

GIMP still rocks!

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## qamelian

> I dont think the argument here is weather the gimp is capable or not, it is, very capable. The argument is that the gimp FEELS horrible for people comming from industry standard packages such as PSP and PS. It really doesnt offer any more than these progs,  so its easier to boot a VM or something rather than re-train themselves to use a program which while very capable, needs a big ergonomic learning curve away from the 'industry standard' and at the end of the day offers nothing more (except the price of course  however id rather pay than compramise)


It never felt horrible to me. I have always found the GIMP interface to be more flexible and usable than PS. The PS interface is one of the most clumsy and uncomfortable ones I have ever used. I hated it so much that I was almost ready to get out of graphics work until I discovered GIMP. I continue trying PS on the workstations of other people, but it still feels like crap to me. If GIMP was commercial software, I would be happy to pay for it. I will never shell out a dime for PS because in my experience, it is not the right tool for me. I value the flexibility of GIMP far too much.

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## dgrafix

I guess its just a matter of taste, some like mayo, some like ketchup. Here is a list of things that really irritate me (and others) about it. Prehaps they can be easily fixed in settings (although i have not yet found a way):
the fact everything is in a separate window that do not behave as sub-windows from the same application should. For example, i have my icons squeezed on the leftt, the dock on the right, image in the middle. like this:http://d-grafix.com/temp/gimp.jpg.  I taskswitch to another app and back to my image. where have my tools and dialogues gone? I have to click on them again in the taskbar to make them jump from behind the application i switched to before. (Please dont suggest gimpshop as it isnt stable, and isnt what i mean.)when i create or load a new image it jumps to 0,0 on the screen over the tools, rather than docking it with the right side tools window, this means i have to drag the image and dock it manually "save window positions" seems to have no effect over this.Brushes - this is the most frustrating thing for me. How do i change the brush size/hardness/density on the fly?  The only way I have found to get round this is to manually create (and save) a new brush which is both time consuming and annoying rather than having the standard 3 sliders. Ie, if i want to make my brush exactly 75px 35%hard 75%density with 5% opacity (ok the opacity has a slider)Text/Vector - How do i create a vector layer overlay that can be edited / changed?

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## dmn_clown

> The author of the post that gave the slagging obviously isn't in any way a professional of any sorts!!


And your business obviously doesn't work on high end images or you wouldn't be using the GIMP.  They've been working on the GEGL backend that will allow working on 16bpp images since 2000 and it *still* isn't out of the "hello world" stage.

Pixel has promise but isn't worth the price yet and its development is painfully slow.

----------


## qamelian

> And your business obviously doesn't work on high end images or you wouldn't be using the GIMP.  They've been working on the GEGL backend that will allow working on 16bpp images since 2000 and it *still* isn't out of the "hello world" stage.
> 
> Pixel has promise but isn't worth the price yet and its development is painfully slow.


You could be wrong. I know many professionals who "work on high end images" and they _are_ using the GIMP. And as I mentioned in an earlier post, Linux Format magazine wrote up a few professional artists who favour the GIMP as well. These artists were not just using it out of some blind loyalty to F/OSS either. They each provided concrete reasons why, in their professional opinion, GIMP was a superior alternative for their work. One of them went so far as to explain why he felt the GIMP interface was better than Photoshop and gave examples of how it improves his work-flow.

----------


## NoSmokingBandit

I've tried to use the Gimp, but i find i just cant use it as smoothly as photoshop. A couple of things that are really easy in photoshop became a chore in the Gimp. I actually hate how everything is in a separate window. When i click on my pic all of a sudden the tools are gone and i have to go up to the taskbar to bring them back to the top so i can choose the next tool i want. I just find it very inefficient and it doesnt help me at all.

----------


## qamelian

> I've tried to use the Gimp, but i find i just cant use it as smoothly as photoshop. A couple of things that are really easy in photoshop became a chore in the Gimp. I actually hate how everything is in a separate window. When i click on my pic all of a sudden the tools are gone and i have to go up to the taskbar to bring them back to the top so i can choose the next tool i want. I just find it very inefficient and it doesnt help me at all.


I hear that a lot, but in fact it's one of the things I like most about the GIMP. I find it vastly more efficient than the alternative in Photoshop. WIthin a couiple of months of switching from PS to GIMP, my productivity went up enough that I was able to increase my client-load by almost 20% without actually working anymore hours. That sounds efficient to me. But like I say: you have to take the time to learn to use it.

----------


## dgrafix

so anyone know what is the best answer to my brushes question on bottom of the previous page? this is one of the major things that puts me off using it. I really miss the simple brush tools of PSP. The interface dissapearing i guess i can live with if i knew the shortcuts, but using the brushes as is,  to work efficiently is just impossible.

----------


## junjan

There's no way to compare last versions of Gimp or Pixel to Photoshop CS3. IMO, evolutionary speaking they are on totally different eras... :Wink:

----------


## MrGnu

> And your business obviously doesn't work on high end images or you wouldn't be using the GIMP.  They've been working on the GEGL backend that will allow working on 16bpp images since 2000 and it *still* isn't out of the "hello world" stage.
> 
> Pixel has promise but isn't worth the price yet and its development is painfully slow.


And I assume that you are another "I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT PHOTOSHOP"  type of disbelieving person??

Before you start making very unwise statements Just think about this...I HAVE BEEN USING PHOTOSHOP SINCE 1997 And yes WE LIKE USING GIMP.
If you don't like my statement then report it to the forum administrators. I really don't care, you can please yourself !!!! 

You know that it's a Free world?? And If using the gimp for, dare I say it!!...........  Professional Photography / Graphic Design / Web Development / Teaching etc, well what can I do??
I'm not here to appease you or any one else..

----------


## qamelian

> There's no way to compare last versions of Gimp or Pixel to Photoshop CS3. IMO, evolutionary speaking they are on totally different eras...


Boy, this gets tiresome. They can be compared and some of us still find GIMP to be the better tool. I test every new version of PS that comes out and for me, GIMP still still trumps it every time.  I still find CS3 to be very clumsy to use and it doesn't have one single feature that would compel me to choose it over the GIMP. Not one. If you like that is fine, but don't assume that it is the ultimate tool for everyone. It certainly doesn't meet my needs.

----------


## junjan

> I still find CS3 to be very clumsy to use and it doesn't have one single feature that would compel me to choose it over the GIMP. Not one.


Perhaps we are using the software for different applications.  I said IMO, perhaps I should say "in my work" (IMW exists?)

Then I rephrase myself, in my work Gimp is no use at all and It certainly doesn't meet my needs.

----------


## Breepee

> Boy, this gets tiresome. They can be compared and some of us still find GIMP to be the better tool. I test every new version of PS that comes out and for me, GIMP still still trumps it every time.  I still find CS3 to be very clumsy to use and it doesn't have one single feature that would compel me to choose it over the GIMP. Not one. If you like that is fine, but don't assume that it is the ultimate tool for everyone. It certainly doesn't meet my needs.


I would say that nondestructive adjustment layers are a _very_ usefull feature. They make life so much better, it's a shame the Gimp hasn't have this yet.

----------


## dgrafix

i will take that as a no then  (to my questions @bottom, page 36).  :Sad: 

Virtual machine paintshop pro it is for now then. I will be keeping my eye on gimp though and may start using it when they improve the brushes interface & window management.

----------


## rsambuca

> i will take that as a no then  (to my questions @bottom, page 36). 
> 
> Virtual machine paintshop pro it is for now then. I will be keeping my eye on gimp though and may start using it when they improve the brushes interface & window management.


What post number are you talking about?  I have my settings different so I only have 10 pages currently in this thread.

----------


## k99goran

> And I assume that you are another "I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S NOT PHOTOSHOP"  type of disbelieving person??
> 
> Before you start making very unwise statements Just think about this...I HAVE BEEN USING PHOTOSHOP SINCE 1997 And yes WE LIKE USING GIMP.
> If you don't like my statement then report it to the forum administrators. I really don't care, you can please yourself !!!! 
> 
> You know that it's a Free world?? And If using the gimp for, dare I say it!!...........  Professional Photography / Graphic Design / Web Development / Teaching etc, well what can I do??
> I'm not here to appease you or any one else..


You really should have checked the expiration date on that milk carton.

Any guesses of how long it will take until GIMP 2.6 is released?
Reluctant UI improvements + GEGL vaporware = 3 years? 6 years?

----------


## dgrafix

> What post number are you talking about? I have my settings different so I only have 10 pages currently in this thread.


That would be this one, quamilian said that he can do everything in gimp that can be done in paintshop and photoshop. I was just wondering how he manages the following:




> I guess its just a matter of taste, some like mayo, some like ketchup. Here is a list of things that really irritate me (and others) about it. Prehaps they can be easily fixed in settings (although i have not yet found a way):
> 
> -Brushes - this is the most frustrating thing for me. How do i change the brush size/hardness/density on the fly? The only way I have found to get round this is to manually create (and save) a new brush which is both time consuming and annoying rather than having the standard 3 sliders. Ie, if i want to make my brush exactly 75px 35%hard 75%density with 5% opacity (ok the opacity has a slider) but to do the others i have to create and save a new brush!?!?!
> -the fact everything is in a separate window that do not behave as sub-windows from the same application should. For example, i have my icons squeezed on the leftt, the dock on the right, image in the middle. like this:http://d-grafix.com/temp/gimp.jpg. I taskswitch to another app and back to my image. where have my tools and dialogues gone? I have to click on them again in the taskbar to make them jump from behind the application i switched to before. (Please dont suggest gimpshop as it isnt stable, and isnt what i mean.) 
> -when i create or load a new image it jumps to 0,0 on the screen over the tools, rather than docking it with the right side tools window, this means i have to drag the image and dock it manually "save window positions" seems to have no effect over this.
> -Text/Vector - How do i create a vector layer overlay that can be edited / changed?


There are many others but these are the main things that prevent me using it as a regular paint app. (I use it sometimes but mainly as a imaging tool, not as a paint package as i find it too long winded)

PS: how do you set up how many posts on a page, i only get like six or something.

----------


## jrusso2

Its in User CP, edit options, the default is 6 I per page I believe.

----------


## dgrafix

Thanks, thats better  :Smile: 




> You know that it's a Free world?? And If using the gimp for, dare I say it!!........... Professional Photography / Graphic Design / Web Development / Teaching etc, well what can I do??
> I'm not here to appease you or any one else..


 Exactly, linux is a free world but with no or limited choice (where apps are concerned). Which is why there needs to be less "PooPooing" of independent-commercial software by the linux hardcore to encourage development of alternatives like pixel. Several people arguing for gimp here last used PS/PSP when? 1997? 2002? thats 5-11 Years ago. The modern versions of these apps are not even in the the same class, let alone the same division. Gimp IS a 'useable' alternative, but my point is its the ONLY useable alternative and is not to everyones taste.

----------


## rsambuca

> That would be this one, quamilian said that he can do everything in gimp that can be done in paintshop and photoshop. I was just wondering how he manages the following:
> 
> 
> There are many others but these are the main things that prevent me using it as a regular paint app. (I use it sometimes but mainly as a imaging tool, not as a paint package as i find it too long winded)
> 
> PS: how do you set up how many posts on a page, i only get like six or something.


What version of gimp have you tried?  The newest version has a slider for the brush sizes (finally!).

----------


## dgrafix

Im using the latest one i think. Its got a brush scale slider (a definte step in the right direction) but not an actual dynamic true-size adjustment. Also there seems to be no way of easily controling the brush hardness and density (without creating a new brush from scratch).

----------


## [Alsharifi]

> please change the second screen shot as well. i wanna look at the interface but i can't since the hot naked (well 99% naked anyways )chick keeps getting in the way. 
> do you think i can open that in school
> 
> 
> 
> the freaking point is not what you can do with a skin but how badly it reflects on you if that image opens in the library or in school or at work.
> also don't even talk about what someone might do with a bit of skin since clearly you weren't DOING anything modifying a girls picture *wink wink


yea i just got in trouble for opening that in school!


anyways..When i read " i cant use gimp"..i just stopped reading.

if u cant use gimp (after actually trying) then there is no program that i can suggest.seem like compete user error..lack of talent..?

and if u REALLY want a "true photoshop alternative" i hope u dont find it on linux...were not trying to clone windows,GIMP is linux,u want photoshop dual boot windows and problem solved.

----------


## potentia

> yea i just got in trouble for opening that in school!
> 
> anyways..When i read " i cant use gimp"..i just stopped reading.
> 
> if u cant use gimp (after actually trying) then there is no program that i can suggest.seem like compete user error..lack of talent..?
> 
> and if u REALLY want a "true photoshop alternative" i hope u dont find it on linux...were not trying to clone windows,GIMP is linux,u want photoshop dual boot windows and problem solved.


You think of Linux and open source as a cult and an ideology, don't you? Guys like you are probably the main reason why Linux will never gain more users, so congratulations on that: you shoot yourself in the feet every time you post nonsense like that. Fanaticism certainly isn't the way forward. 

Lack of talent... you should eat those words again! Lack of knowledge is you problem. You sound young so you have time to get it, but open your eyes and ears... and don't just support open source but also and open MIND!

----------


## doppis

Whynot take the time to really get familiar with gimp and be done with it?  Everyone knows that it is better.

----------


## meho_r

> Im using the latest one i think. Its got a brush scale slider (a definte step in the right direction) but not an actual dynamic true-size adjustment. Also there seems to be no way of easily controling the brush hardness and density (without creating a new brush from scratch).


Well, if you need resizable default set of brushes (but this is not true for EVERY brush, only .gbr, keep in mind) you can always move them from Gimp brushes folder (/usr/share/gimp/2.0/brushes) to your user-preferences folder (/home/<user>/.gimp2.4/brushes) and change permissions. For easy change of size, hardness and other things -- change shortcuts and use your mouse wheel. This way you don't need to create brushes from scratch  :Wink:

----------


## dgrafix

> Well, if you need resizable default set of brushes (but this is not true for EVERY brush, only .gbr, keep in mind) you can always move them from Gimp brushes folder (/usr/share/gimp/2.0/brushes) to your user-preferences folder (/home/<user>/.gimp2.4/brushes) and change permissions. For easy change of size, hardness and other things -- change shortcuts and use your mouse wheel. This way you don't need to create brushes from scratch


Good to know thanks  :Smile:  

(I would still prefer a set o sliders.tho )




> You think of Linux and open source as a cult and an ideology, don't you? Guys like you are probably the main reason why Linux will never gain more users, so congratulations on that: you shoot yourself in the feet every time you post nonsense like that. Fanaticism certainly isn't the way forward.
> 
> Lack of talent... you should eat those words again! Lack of knowledge is you problem. You sound young so you have time to get it, but open your eyes and ears... and don't just support open source but also and open MIND!


 AMEN! I feel that way too. I fully support the ideology, just not the fanaticism. I love the idea of open source and support it by donating, buying manuals etc, but what people have to realize is very few developers have the resources to produce something for 'free' (me included, i have a family to feed!), people behind products like gimp, ubuntu, open office etc make a lot of money in other ways simply by having so many resources. Put it this way if it carries on with just a few big companies doing this stuff then it ends up being no better than the microsoft, adobe etc monopolies on the windows side of the fence, but without the alternatives!. I think attitudes are thankfully changing and everyone I know who uses linux support both open source and small time commercial stuff. Linux stands for freedom of choice, but what does that mean when there is no choice?




> were not trying to clone windows,GIMP is linux,u want photoshop dual boot windows and problem solved


To say Gimp is linux is preposterous. Linux is an operating system and gimp is a *cross platform*(inc. windows) paint package, created by two completely separate entities. Anyway, apart from the fact photoshop only runs on windows and OSX whats it got to do with windows anyway? We dont want a windows clone, or a photoshop clone, just a paint program thats not only powerful but has more industry standard  interfaces that will actually attract people to linux not put them off saying "is that all there is?". Which to be honest im tired of hearing from people. This whole thread is starting to  sound like "This is the best you get on linux, deal with it!".




> Whynot take the time to really get familiar with gimp and be done with it? Everyone knows that it is better.


I have been on and off for almost 2 years and after a lot of frustration, said to myself "what the hell am i doing, forcing myself to love this when i simply don't like it" Comments like that are like nagging someone to eat blue cheese until they get used to it. Some people never will. Its not better not to everyone, its very capable, powerful but i would simply say its different from the norm, quirky if you will, but to say its better is simply untrue when PSP and PS do everything gimp does (and more)

----------


## gruvsyco

> Whynot take the time to really get familiar with gimp and be done with it?  Everyone* thinks* that it is better.





> Whynot take the time to really get familiar with *Photoshop* and be done with it?  Everyone knows that it is better.


2 available fixes, take your pick!

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## potentia

> Whynot take the time to really get familiar with gimp and be done with it?  Everyone knows that it is better.


Better? Rubbish. I did. I have used GIMP for web graphics for 3 years when nothing else was available. Feature wise GIMP is inferiour to Photoshop CS/CS2/CS3.

I suggest you guys understand what other people than yourself need. Check out the GEGL project. PS could all this for years, GIMP cannot. I repeat.... CAN NOT DO IT! When GEGL is implemented (and if the output matches professional standards) then we can continue this thread, but until then the GIMP is a joke for professional photographers. 

End of story. This thread is a circus for people what wants to defend their favorite software, but you have to be in sync with reality to be able to COMPARE! All you guys shouting that "GIMP is better" doesn't make it better. It is a ridiculous claim. *Ridiculous!*

You want... you WANT... Linux to be as good as anything else and engage in these discussions like you were defending your kid or your god. It would make more sense to improve the product instead so your dream could actually be realized.

This discussion is futile. I suggest you all work with the ADVANCED (16-bit and 32-bit) features in Photoshop for some years and then return to the GIMP. Feature after feature is just not available in GIMP. It is a fact.

Anyway, it really doesn't matter what is written in this forum. Professionals don't use GIMP and they won't before it can compete. Lets see what the GEGL project can contribute with and WHEN. I certainly prefer paying the price for Photoshop than to wait for further 2-3 years until something is available. Some of us actually use the software and our computer for professional work. When we are in Windows/OS X.

Goodbye.

----------


## bullgr

i post in this threat about 6 months ago...
And now i am reading the same things.
This threat is useless, we say the same things with other words, this will never stop.
it's like the dog hunting his tail. He will never cach his tail.

The fact is that photoshop is for pro's to do they job. For home use, gimp is good. It's free and you don't have to pay 600-700$ for photoshop to retouch the home fotos.
But gimp for pro use... forget it. And if someone says "i am pro and i use gimp" i would like to see his job. Because everyone can say "i am pro", but who is really a good pro? In my working environment (i am working as graphic designer the last 5 years) i saw many "pro's" (at least they believe that they are).
And for Pixel, it's a joke. It was supposed to released in 2005 and we are in 2007 and it's still not released. It's a not working clone of photoshop  and thus it will remain.

Ups... you see? I fall in the trap again and i wrote se same things (whith other words) in this threat like 6 months ago.
You see? It's pointless to post in this threat. This is the unending story, like caching the dogtail.

----------


## dgrafix

To be fair, it does depend what you mean by professional though. Im 'professional' as i get paid for doing things and sometimes use gimp for simple tasks (when i cannot be bothered to start virtual machine), but i dont deal with photography/deepcolor very much, so dont need overkill photo tools - which is why my favorite is Paintshop Pro, as i think it feels more of an 'art package' than actual hardcore 'photo editing app' (even though both apps have elements of both). 

For creating textures for 3d models, basic web graphics and generic digital artwork gimp is plenty powerful enough, its just uncomfortable, fiddily and unfamiliar to use for many people. Because of this so many linux users are screaming for more app choice and appreciate programs that offer alternatives (like pixel - its a good attempt, at least its offering an alternative, who knows mabe it will be great when finally finished). 

Rant "gimp is great" religiously all you like but i prefer freedom of choice. I know how i like it to be and gimp isnt it. 
-I choose linux because i believe its a fantastic OS and is superior in many ways to all others. 
-I choose Blender over AC3D, Maya, 3DSM & truespace, because i prefer it and it does what i need without overkill. 
-I choose OO.O over MSO & corel because i prefer it.
-I choose PSP over gimp AND photoshop because i prefer it. Unfortunately there is no decent naitive free or commercial alternatives (except WIP pixel)

----------


## Mellowdrone

I've never understood such a misguided bunch of opinionated nonsense as threads like these tend to present. I've wholeheartedly been a believer in using what is most comfortable for you, what is most electric for you, and outrightly so, what is most perfect for you in your particular situation. While the GIMP is an admirable alternative, there are some folks who simply prefer using Adobe Photoshop. Admittedly, I'm one of those people. However, I'm not going to try to smash your opinion if you're one of the followers of the GIMP. Simply put, I don't understand this insulting ideology; it's deconstructive to the process, not constructive.

I congratulate the Wine crew for getting things on a roll as they have with Adobe Photoshop 7 and CS2 as of the most recent. Furthermore, I congratulate GIMP for being as far in the developmental process as they are in such a relatively short period of program development. I congratulate the development of Pixel, albeit it's relative young age in terms of the other two. But just because I congratulate all three of these things doesn't mean I see any one of them to be a perfect solution to every problem - if you do, your debated point is rather foolish. Photoshop has it's drawbacks (Wine certainly doesn't help matters), the GIMP has it's drawbacks, and Pixel due to it's beta stage certainly has it's drawbacks, but this doesn't mean any one of them can't be used for a certain process we'll tend to use it for.

If you believe with heartfelt notions that the GIMP is a primary source of your photography enjoyment, donate your time to the project, your cash ($), your proposed code, something. Such a request remains much the same in regards to Wine and Adobe Photoshop (buying the product w/ Linux requests, helping the Wine team by a donation or submitted code) as well as Pixel (buying the product, making suggestions, donating to the cause). I just don't get the useless debate here, because all it's doing is blowing a text-based hot air over a program or three from one screen to another.

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## jorgerosa

Hello all. I think you guys are mising one simple thing here, that is an simple and REAL solution!  :Wink: 
 Author wrote: "primary purpose is to make users of *Photoshop* feel comfortable using *GIMP*" - Link: http://www.gimpshop.com/

----------


## Samhain13

> I've never understood such a misguided bunch of opinionated nonsense as threads like these tend to present. *I've wholeheartedly been a believer in using what is most comfortable for you, what is most electric for you, and outrightly so, what is most perfect for you in your particular situation.* While the GIMP is an admirable alternative, there are some folks who simply prefer using Adobe Photoshop. Admittedly, I'm one of those people. However, I'm not going to try to smash your opinion if you're one of the followers of the GIMP. Simply put, I don't understand this insulting ideology; it's deconstructive to the process, not constructive.


+1 (my emphasis)

I agree with everything said above. Although I am one of those people in the other side-- GIMP follower.  :Smile: 

If some people say they can only do certain, necessary things in Photoshop, others shouldn't have a problem with that. Conversely, if other people say they don't have a problem accomplishing the same necessary things in the GIMP, then the other camp shouldn't have a problem too. This thread just does the opposite: it encourages one user to make it his/her problem what the other user can do using another application.

We shouldn't even be wasting all this time pointing out what the other guy can and can't do and then waste more time refuting those statements. It doesn't make sense.

If any one wants to really prove how good they are with what they do, then by all means USE THE GALLERY. If there are others who think they can do a better job, then USE THE GALLERY also. *Post your works and let them do the talking* because at the end of the day, what makes one a true professional is what one can actually produce-- not what one uses to produce anything.

People don't pay you real money because of the applications that you use. People pay you real money for what you can actually give them.

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## dgrafix

> I've never understood such a misguided bunch of opinionated nonsense as threads like these tend to present. I've wholeheartedly been a believer in using what is most comfortable for you, what is most electric for you, and outrightly so, what is most perfect for you in your particular situation. While the GIMP is an admirable alternative, there are some folks who simply prefer using Adobe Photoshop. Admittedly, I'm one of those people. However, I'm not going to try to smash your opinion if you're one of the followers of the GIMP. Simply put, I don't understand this insulting ideology; it's deconstructive to the process, not constructive.


Ill drink to that. My original argument in this whole thread has been about the need software choice, which i believe requires the community to support both Oss and non-monopolistic commercial apps, if linux is to ever going to convince the majority of the PC owning public that its a useable alternative. It was not aimed at dissing anyones fave app.. Although the masses of "You will use the gimp and like it!!!" style posts kind of lead me to give my honest personal opinion.

 It seems to me as soon as someone says an open source product isnt as good as a commercial one in some way, it leads to the software equivalent of *brainwashed fanatics* screaming "heretic!" (I am not refering to the people who genuinely tried to simply offer helpful tips for using the program, i mean the 'other' sort, who fanatically 'poohpooh' any critique or suggestion of a commercial alternative) This kind of ideology scares most developers off creating more (freedom of?) choice for linux. 


To me they sound as fanatical and closed minded as this guy:   
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wvsboPUjrGc

And heres the 'remix'  :Wink:  (to lighten the mood a bit  :Smile: )
http://youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE

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## Annigma

Well I've been happy with my PSP7 for quite some time now, and have been kind of 'sulking' that it has *spits*windows*spits* listed on the box as one of it's requirements. 

I've opened up GIMP a couple of times and had a very half-hearted attempt at seeing if I could use it, then closed it, still wallowing in my grumpiness at it for not being just like what I'm used to (PSP). Then.. the other day, I decided to stop being so stubborn and have a 'proper' go at it.. well, I managed to make an avatar that I'm pretty pleased with, and whilst I was at it I thought I'd make a more 'Fawny' kind of one for here, since the 'Badger' one wasn't right - I never even installed Badger.

<-- It's not exactly graphical manipulation at it's finest, but I'm pleased with it: mostly because when I stopped being silly and gave it a chance, I was pleasantly surprised to find that 'Gimpy' could do many of the things that I could do in PSP (not exactly an expert user  :Redface: ) and even more pleasantly surprised at how simple it was to discover how to do them in GIMP!  :Smile: 

Anyway, enough rambling. I just wanted to say that if there's a competitive program out there that might help some people move from *spits*windows*spits* to Linux, then BRING IT ON!

=D>

----------


## flapane

Did anyone manage to install it on 6.10? it gives me dependencies issues with last .deb:

Spacchetto pixeldemo (da pixeldemo_1.0.699-1_i386.deb) ...
dpkg: problemi con le dipendenze impediscono la configurazione di pixeldemo:
 pixeldemo dipende da libc6 (>= 2.6-1); comunque:
  La versione di libc6 sul sistema Ã¨ 2.4-1ubuntu12.3.
 pixeldemo dipende da libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.5); comunque:
  La versione di libfreetype6 sul sistema Ã¨ 2.2.1-5ubuntu0.2.
 pixeldemo dipende da libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.13-4); comunque:
  La versione di libpng12-0 sul sistema Ã¨ 1.2.8rel-5.1ubuntu0.3.
 pixeldemo dipende da zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.3.3.dfsg-1); comunque:
  La versione di zlib1g sul sistema Ã¨ 1:1.2.3-13ubuntu2.
dpkg: errore processando pixeldemo (--install):
 problemi con le dipendenze - lasciato non configurato
Sono occorsi degli errori processando:
 pixeldemo

----------


## meborc

> Did anyone manage to install it on 6.10? it gives me dependencies issues with last .deb:
> 
> Spacchetto pixeldemo (da pixeldemo_1.0.699-1_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: problemi con le dipendenze impediscono la configurazione di pixeldemo:
>  pixeldemo dipende da libc6 (>= 2.6-1); comunque:
>   La versione di libc6 sul sistema Ã¨ 2.4-1ubuntu12.3.
>  pixeldemo dipende da libfreetype6 (>= 2.3.5); comunque:
>   La versione di libfreetype6 sul sistema Ã¨ 2.2.1-5ubuntu0.2.
>  pixeldemo dipende da libpng12-0 (>= 1.2.13-4); comunque:
> ...


the command 'sudo apt-get -f install' usually fixes the dependency issues

----------


## flapane

I solved by installing the tar.gz file.

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## SyCo123

I've been told that text boxes cant be dynamically resized in the GIMP, If they can I can't figure out how.

This means if I change the layout while designing a site I have to hit enter where every new line break should be every time I try a new text box layout. I should be ale to pick up the corner of the box and drag it to any shape and have the text realign to fit.

I'm not a GIMP basher but I am Photoshop lover. I've written a set of comparison tutorials available as a free ebook on goingmanual.com And I praise the GIMP highly for photo manipulation work. It really is great.

I've used GIMP on an off since before you could dynamically edit text (in 2000), that was a major hassle compared to PS6 now I am finding the text area resizing issue to be so bad I'm back to PS again.

Basically for photo editing it is a very useful program, especially on the road. For graphical design it is still lacking. Sorry but that's my  unbiased opinion and I hope GIMP continues to improve, as I sure it will.

----------


## svnstrng

You post highly critical comments but when someone else posts their point of view you act like they did something wrong.
Thin skinned and highly accusatory don't go well together.

----------


## darolu

It looks very similar to Adobe Photoshop® but is not free software, not even open source so no thank you, I vote GIMP, is very very good in some aspects even superior to Adobe Photoshop® and is free software which I support  :Smile:

----------


## Lord DarkPat

I'm happy with PS 7.0 in crossover, but I really wish I could have CS2. I own both.

----------


## dmn_clown

> I'm happy with PS 7.0 in crossover, but I really wish I could have CS2. I own both.


Wine 0.9.54 fixed the issues with CS2 (except the price).

----------


## eagledrc

Gimp does not beat Photoshop CS3.  I did some major print jobs on the Gimp before I was able to buy Photoshop.  Photoshop does things in less than a minute that would take the Gimp 10 minutes to do.  (Outer glow, gradient overlay, etc)  Don't get me wrong - I love the Gimp, but I save time by working on Photoshop, and it can do everything that the Gimp can do.
Pixel is decent, like Krita, but as long as it doesn't have layer effects, I'm using VirtualBox for Photoshop CS3 on XP.

If anyone is wondering, VISTA SUCKS!

----------


## Sean4000

It's so sad that Pixel is dead on the vine. I had high hopes that is would officially be Photoshop for Linux. 

I use GIMP, UFRAW, F-SPOT, and Pixel's last version and It's completely fine for me as a photographer.

http://pihelper.com/SeanPhoto.htm

The GIMPrepository allows access to hundreds of plugins, filters, etc. All completely free. Not having a tool in Photoshop available in GIMP has never been an issue.

----------


## jrusso2

> It's so sad that Pixel is dead on the vine. I had high hopes that is would officially be Photoshop for Linux. 
> 
> I use GIMP, UFRAW, F-SPOT, and Pixel's last version and It's completely fine for me as a photographer.
> 
> http://pihelper.com/SeanPhoto.htm
> 
> The GIMPrepository allows access to hundreds of plugins, filters, etc. All completely free. Not having a tool in Photoshop available in GIMP has never been an issue.


Why do you say pixel is dead on the vine.  It appears to be close to being final?

----------


## Sean4000

> Why do you say pixel is dead on the vine.  It appears to be close to being final?


I guess I should go to the site more often. lol. I hadn't been there in a long time.  

It looks like it might happen sometime.

----------


## dgrafix

I finally got some kind of option in the end.

I have managed to get PSP 7 & 9 working with wine (needs a few DLLs copying from a windows intallation after running the installer that crashes - but still installs the app).

It works 100% except for some reason "save" doesnt work but "save as" works fine.

This is great for me as i can do my actual artwork in PSP which is my favorite art app anyway. I sometimes use GIMP for the filters and certain things but I cannot get used to the interface for drawing with (the brushes & layer interface is awful compared to PSP, theres no vector capability and no re-editable text)

Its such a shame there is no real native alternative  other than gimp though. Unless pixel gets going of course.

----------


## Zeotronic

I refused to try proprietary software, however I also detest GIMP. Regardless of either, this program looks almost as bad as GIMP. I only keep GIMP because it can use such a wide variety of formats, though I rarely find myself using it. I more often use Kolour Paint and MTPaint.

Edit:
Oh and Inkscape! Lets not forget about Inkscape.

----------


## Dr.Ninethousand

I've been using Pixel for a couple of weeks, and I like it a lot..

I haven't paid for it, so I get the watermark and can't print, but it seems to have some things going for it that GIMP does not, and I like the layout..  as far as I know GIMP doesn't support CMYK for printing, and I could never get GIMP to even print for me actually..  (not that I've been able to print with Pixel, either, due to it only being the demo)

I'm not going to comment on my pro-capitalist ideas here..  I didn't bring my tard helmet for the nerd fight..

Anyway, if you are having trouble installing Pixel in 64bit Kubuntu or similar, as is common, check out this thread, which includes a link to some of the missing libraries that I couldn't find anywhere else: LINK

----------


## etusha

hello
all 
im new in Art & Design
for me u can say every thing but photoshop is the best for the moment 
because it have a lot of tools and tutorials 

i dont understand something 
why programmers dont work all together and create a big thing super program 
but work separate and dont create nothing 
for exmaple cinepaint  gimp pixel etc why they dont work together
im sure if they work together no one can beat them 
same thing for virtualbox and qemu 
and more and more 
brothers work together if u work together u can do good things

----------


## XSP

Because competition breeds innovation while singularity leads to stagnation. Having a diverse set of options fuels developers to match, if not surpass his or her competitor.

----------


## etusha

for example
if in ard & design are about 1000 programmers and 100 programs its proximately 10 programmers for a programs that have to write more than 100.000 line of code  proximately 10.000 line for man 

but if they work all together 1000programmers X5000  line of code= 5.000.000 line of code 
all they work less and do e big job 

concurrence  for free programs is waste of time

----------


## william_nbg

Most of us are here because of two things:

Choice & Freedom

Otherwise we would be boring Mac or MS Wimpow users.

Besides: I used, Photoshop for 5 years before switching to Linux and Gimp. Sure, at first it was annoying. I just wanted to get some work done and not relearn all of my applications. But after 6 months of learning-by-doing, on line tutorials, and a book or two, I wouldn't go back.

I love my Gimp. I couldn't even tell you why I like it better than Photoshop. Maybe: for web design (my job) - it just fits the bill better than others.

Although I prefer Gnome - Quanta + is also one of my most used and favorite apps.

For many folks I've spoke with. Switching can be a bitch. Changing your OS, together with most of your apps is a lot of work. OK, sometimes, the discovery part was fun. But it's a lot of work. 

And I'd never go back!

----------


## dmn_clown

> Because competition breeds innovation while singularity leads to stagnation. Having a diverse set of options fuels developers to match, if not surpass his or her competitor.


Yes and no, the only reason cinepaint exists today is due to a (bad) decision by the gimp developers when handed patches that allowed the gimp to handle 16+32bpp images.  

In short, its all about politics.

----------


## lingnoi

I don't think you can really see the power of gimp unless you're an expert. Here are some videos, but even these don't do it justice..

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Pj8OkdNi1M
http://youtube.com/watch?v=O30sFV0BzGA

----------


## CaptainCabinet

> I don't think you can really see the power of gimp unless you're an expert. Here are some videos, but even these don't do it justice..
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=9Pj8OkdNi1M
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=O30sFV0BzGA


I think everyone can see Gimp is a great program. It's just the people who are tied to Photoshop and don't want to admit it's a pefectly fine alternative (for whatever reason).
I used to use Photoshop all time when I used Window$. But now that I'm a Linux follower I can see now that Gimp is better because it gets more updates and is community driven. That way the users of it _really_ get what they want out of it.

----------


## etusha

any good site that have tutorials about cinepaint gimp and kompozer ?

----------


## st0n3cutt3r

Before I say anything else, I'll say that I learned image editing on gimp, then learned photoshop and used it for the next 7 years.

Going back to the gimp is not easy. I acknowledge that I can change my keyboard shortcuts, and reconfigure it to work how I'm used to with (v) selecting the move tool instead of (m), and so on, but that still doesn't change the dozens of other things about it that are varying degrees of annoying.

Yes, the gimp is a great program, but if you're used to something else, it can be very hard.  Let's give him a break, hmm?   (except for the getting-us-excited-about-something-that-turned-out-to-be-shareware part...   he can go to h*ll for that.   hahaha just kidding  :Wink:  )

----------


## lingnoi

You can use Photoshop CS2 on Linux now btw via wine.

----------


## newbieforever

well, windows is difficult... linux a little more by some point of view... 
but i chose lin cause i can see what is there inside: text file to configure all the system... something that i don't know yet, but i think i would understand...
the same photoshop is difficult, gimp a little more, but is open and give you more flexibility... 

and if someone search a more "photoshop like" raster editing application, well we could consider...

- krita (fine reviews) 
- gimpshop...

we can also search other software to try through http://www.linuxappfinder.com
--> under alternatives one search the windows software and can find many linux software doing the same things, more or less, may be...

may be someone find them friendlier...
i often choose gimp, anyway... funny! (consider that in 2005, first post, gimp was harder to use...)
but not always... i jump from one to another according my target, my needs, my delivery time...
i tried all them and others, (not pixel: no source, no chances), for work and fun, actually krita is the fastest, but not so extensible

krita is so kind to suggest you other similar software for different needs...

----------


## Railsbuntu

Gimp cannot replace Photoshop for at least one reason: Layer Styles and especially the layer gradient.

I have been unable to mimic Photoshop's feature. Without that, it is almost impossible to create decent Vector composition that are so much in vogue at the moment.

If anyone knows how to do that perfectly with Gimp, please let me know. I found workarounds but they are ugly.

----------


## natehall

Do you know how to use the mask function? Its gives super control over how you want the transparency of an image to be.

----------


## Railsbuntu

Challenge time!

Using this stock image I have created:


You have to turn it into something that looks like this:


This is the very base of Vector Composition, and I am incapable of doing this in Gimp. So if you manage to do it, please let me know the steps.  :KDE Star:

----------


## Perfect Storm

Done

----------


## smartboyathome

I'm done too. Mine is smooth like the intended look-a-like. Done with GIMP.  :Smile: 

To do it, first erase the white by going to Layers > Transparency > Color to Alpha, and get rid of the white. Then select the transparent areas (represented by a light-and-dark gray checkerboard background, and push control+i. Lock the transparency using the layer palette (control+l), and then use the gradient tool to make the gradient.

----------


## Perfect Storm

yeah, I just went 2 secs of select all black color and then gradient tool., so it might not be smooth, but quite good for 2 secs.
I could have also choosen to select the "grey" color to get the smooth, but I'm lazy and have a board to mod  :Capital Razz:

----------


## Railsbuntu

Currently downloading Gimp...  :Mr. Green: 

Thanks for your tip

EDIT:



> yeah, I just went 2 secs of select all black color and then gradient tool., so it might not be smooth, but quite good for 2 secs.
> I could have also choosen to select the "grey" color to get the smooth, but I'm lazy and have a board to mod


That's not acceptable, I just noticed that on the yellow part of your circle, the is a slight darkish border which doesn't look nice.

I will try by myself smartboyathome's solution.

EDIT: crap! On my desktop computer (Mac OsX), to install Gimp, I need to install X11. Gimp  is out of the game for me sorry.

----------


## BrokeBody

Err... Isn't this easier to do with Inkscape?

----------


## whiteraven

Simple:
1) Open the black and white image in GIMP
2) Set the fore ground color to cyan, and the background layer to blue, or get the colors from your image using the eyedropper tool.
3) Create a new layer, call it New Layer if you like.
4) Fill the layer using the gradient in linear mode starting at the top of the circles, ending at the bottom of the circles.
5) Change the layer mode to Lighten only.

Tip: Invert the New Layer colors to get the orange tinting.

Done!

----------


## Railsbuntu

It still doesn't work, I always get a darkish border in the Gimp version.

Here is a side by side example. The circle on the left was created with PS, the one on the right was created with Gimp following whiteraven tip. You clearly see the quality difference (even dezoomed). On white background you don't notice it much, but on other colours and different shapes you can't miss it. I tried using masks, shrinking/growing selections, it doesn't work.


I never actually ran across a Gimp Vector Composition tutorial...

Inkscape... I keep banging my head while using it: gradients are a pain to make, and there is no custom colours swatches  :Mad:

----------


## Railsbuntu

> I'm done too. Mine is smooth like the intended look-a-like. Done with GIMP. 
> 
> To do it, first erase the white by going to Layers > Transparency > Color to Alpha, and get rid of the white. Then select the transparent areas (represented by a light-and-dark gray checkerboard background, and push control+i. Lock the transparency using the layer palette (control+l), and then use the gradient tool to make the gradient.


Hi, how do you select the transparent areas? you use the tragic wand?

I tried doing so, the circle border is neat, but it is pixelated.

----------


## smartboyathome

You select them with the magic wand, pushing shift in between to select more than one. I would strongly urge you to try all the steps I outlined in my steps above, and add the white back in later. It should get rid of that black border.

----------


## Railsbuntu

Using the wand requires a compromise:

1) Increase threshold to remove the border, but the drawback is that the shapes gets pixelated.

2) Decrease the threshold to keep the borders anti-aliased but this brings back the border.

----------


## rsambuca

You guys, Gimp isn't a vector based program.  It is a tremendous program, but it isn't for scalable vector images.  For that you should be using Inkscape, or Xara...

----------


## whiteraven

> You guys, Gimp isn't a vector based program.  It is a tremendous program, but it isn't for scalable vector images.  For that you should be using Inkscape, or Xara...


Well said! If you are going to create raster images in GIMP (or Photoshop for that matter) and then scale them, you are going to have issues no matter what. As far as the Photoshop version, I see cyan bleeding at the edges of the blue perimeters - just the nature of the beast. O' course, for my money I'll go with GIMP anyday.

----------


## Railsbuntu

> You guys, Gimp isn't a vector based program.  It is a tremendous program, but it isn't for scalable vector images.  For that you should be using Inkscape, or Xara...


In Vector composition, at some point in time you need to import your vector shapes in a raster app let it be Gimp or Photoshop.

Creating nice gradients on a shape is simply not possible with Gimp. I don't see myself creating a "gradiented" shape in Inkscape then import it in Gimp, to see that the colors don't fit in well, then reopen Inkscape to change the gradient, then reimport in Gimp, this is too time consuming.

Well I'll keep my old PS7 for now.

----------


## rsambuca

> Creating nice gradients on a shape is simply not possible with Gimp.


Just because *you* don't know how to do something does not mean that it isn't possible.  :Smile:

----------


## suchawato

And yes,
Pixel is much more advanced than Gimp.
You know,
There's nothing wrong with something being closed source.
And there's nothing wrong with paying for software.

Paying for software means that people can do this for a living.

Do it for a living!

Develop software and do what you love, and get paid for it!
A salary that you can use to support your family or life!

I mean, if Photoshop was open source, most of the people on the Photoshop development team would be quickly without a job.
Which means they'd have to find new jobs elsewhere.
This would be bad for the economy as it would create unemployment.

If people like Richard Stallman had their way, we would all have free and open source software.

I agree that some things should be open source, but not everything.
If everything was open source, there would be a fraction of the software industry that we have today.

Hardly anyone would get paid, jobs would be lost, and most software developers would end up having to work at non-profits for a fraction of their currents salary if they worked in the field at all.

They would be turned into somthing like librarians being paid a small salary by their city to maintain the local software.

And the old money people would have way more power and influence as most of the new money comes from the tech industry.

It's a good things that people develop software for a fee.

They do it because people want it.

People need good photo editing software, and especially industries are willing to pay Adobe to do it.

There's nothing wrong with that.

And if their software was open source Adobe would be out of business.

More jobs lost.

What a great idea. 

Some people need to think before they act.
A communist utopia is not a good idea.

It creates a lot of poverty.

----------


## rsambuca

> I'm glad it's free, but so is Photoshop if you use BitTorrent!


That is called theft, and is illegal in the country in which I live.

----------


## Ralphie

Well stated, suchawato, well stated, although I don't understand why a professional would jack the program, so I'm not sure if I quite believe that part. The rest is sound  :Wink: 

You gotta realize though, Photoshop 7 is the latest most of these guys have ever used, if at all. Scanning through many threads, everyone recommends people to Photoshop 7, even today! When CS2 runs perfectly through wine. So I think a lot of the comparisons DO come from an outdated source.

----------


## dmn_clown

> You gotta realize though, Photoshop 7 is the latest most of these guys have ever used, if at all. Scanning through many threads, everyone recommends people to Photoshop 7, even today! When CS2 runs perfectly through wine. So I think a lot of the comparisons DO come from an outdated source.


Actually, it is more than fair to compare current gimp with PS 6 or 7 as gimp still doesn't have all of those features (nor does Pixel)  :d'oh!:

----------


## Ioky

I don't see how hard is GIMP is. I am I use it for all the graphic design for My architecture poster, and my site. Yes, it ask a lot of amazing tool. million thing can be done, although some of them are a bit tricky. So, what, is not like those thing are any easier in photoshop. Indeed, GIMP seem some what better then photoshop in some area too. For example, Set Color to Alpha. I try to found it in photoshop CS3. Couldn't found it. I mean it might exist, but what so good if I dig for half hour and I still don't see it. Well, that is just me so. My point here is not try to compare anything with anything, I just want to point out that GIMP is not as suck you many people thing, and people who think that might not have much experience with it neither. I personally think Sketch up suck, but that is because that I have use it a lot, and know like many thing of it, that is include that how it make something simple 10 time harder. Sense I do architecture work, it has too many limitations because it try to do everything for you, and it is stupid enough that don't know what I really want, just like point and shoot camera. So, Know your tool before you say anything about it.

----------


## FALSEFLAG

GIMP is free, GIMP is extensible, I've been using GIMP since 1.x and photoshop is for mitten pawed MAC weenies anyway. I'm not willing to sacrifice the bandwidth or diskspace on trialware unless it makes pizza out of wornout CD's

----------


## Perfect Storm

> GIMP is free, GIMP is extensible, I've been using GIMP since 1.x and photoshop is for mitten pawed MAC weenies anyway. I'm not willing to sacrifice the bandwidth or diskspace on trialware unless it makes pizza out of wornout CD's


fixed!  :Capital Razz:

----------


## dmn_clown

> Some people need to think before they act.
> A communist utopia is not a good idea.
> 
> It creates a lot of poverty.


*sigh*  The acquisition of personal wealth creates more poverty than free software ever will.

----------


## HokeyFry

Why are you bashing a program just because it isn't open source? Closed source does not necessarily mean bad. For example, I think that Adobe Photoshop is much better than the GIMP. I use both, but Photoshop is easier to use. Most people don't want to learn how to script to get their program to work. They just want to point and click and have it all work for them. And then in some cases, open source programs are the way to go. Like Ardour is basically an Adobe Audition clone. But, I like it ten times better than Audition. 

Just because something is open source doesn't mean it's better. It all depends on the code and how well it was written.

----------


## Railsbuntu

> Just because *you* don't know how to do something does not mean that it isn't possible.


What a wonderful post!

If *you* are so clever, then show me how to correctly do what I was asking for, up to now nobody has come up with an acceptable solution.

The fact that Photoshop has non destructive gradients using Layer styles simply beats anything on the planet.




> Most people don't want to learn how to script to get their program to work. They just want to point and click and have it all work for them.


Actually in this case clicking is more productive than banging your head writing scripts and realize you don't like the result, and have to redo the script over...

Oh and by the way don't even think about printing business cards on professional printers / paper with Gimp, no CMYK == no pro print. Converting RGB to CMYK images when the artwork is finished is not possible as it will modify colors often in bad.

----------


## suchawato

> Well stated, suchawato, well stated, although I don't understand why a professional would jack the program, so I'm not sure if I quite believe that part. The rest is sound 
> 
> You gotta realize though, Photoshop 7 is the latest most of these guys have ever used, if at all. Scanning through many threads, everyone recommends people to Photoshop 7, even today! When CS2 runs perfectly through wine. So I think a lot of the comparisons DO come from an outdated source.


Proffessional Broke Art Student.   :Wink: 
I will probably buy a copy after I a few years, but for School and current work it is fine.
Also, I don't have a problem with downloading software.
I don't think it's unethical.
My personal opinion.

And actually I agree with dmn_clown, Photoshop 6 would be my guess as well.
It does compare to Photoshop 6.
is somthing like 6-7 years out of date?
Something like that?
I seem to remember using it around the turn of the mellinium, back in 2000.
Hardly up to date.
That's an interesting thought you mentioned.

That they would never have even seen CS2 or CS3 makes them look pretty foolish for compairing with it.

Oh well,
Their very time consuming loss.
-Very time consuming.

-Sara

----------


## suchawato

> It still doesn't work, I always get a darkish border in the Gimp version.
> 
> Here is a side by side example. The circle on the left was created with PS, the one on the right was created with Gimp following whiteraven tip. You clearly see the quality difference (even dezoomed). On white background you don't notice it much, but on other colours and different shapes you can't miss it. I tried using masks, shrinking/growing selections, it doesn't work.
> 
> 
> I never actually ran across a Gimp Vector Composition tutorial...
> 
> Inkscape... I keep banging my head while using it: gradients are a pain to make, and there is no custom colours swatches


My guess would be that would be because GIMP cannot do anything higher than 8 bit.
That is really sucky.
Unless you are making still frames for an old gif animation, your're outa luck for image quality with Gimp.
Oooh! 256 colors! Wow.

 :Shocked: =D>

----------


## smartboyathome

That isn't 256 colors, it is millions of colors. If it was 256 colors, the gradients wouldn't be as smooth.

----------


## suchawato

> That isn't 256 colors, it is millions of colors. If it was 256 colors, the gradients wouldn't be as smooth.


256 color _mode_.
I understand that that is not 256 colors.

That is what a gif supports.
And that is what Gimp basically does.

Photoshop supports up to 48 bit.
*raises hands*

Here's a cleaned up quote of a post that got removed for insulting language. Better now I hope, and only the Facts:




> Here's a list of what Gimp doesn't do or doesn't do very quickly (and remember time is money)
> 
> A patch tool, a healing brush tool or spot healing brush tool!
> 
> -These are important! Ever try to restore a photo in Gimp? It takes hours! It's like using a way early version of Photoshop! You have to manually select each pixel next to the damaged area, and paint it in by hand.
> or cut and paste good areas in and then blend it by hand, pixel by pixel!
> 
> It can take days to do one photo restoration in Gimp!
> Are you kidding me??
> ...


So, while we are on this subject, lets post a real picture that Gimp cannot do.

Here is a low rez pic of a recent work I did:
Just for fun:

This Image was created with help from the liquefy tool in PS.

This is a good simple example.

Liquefy uses  a neat trick:
It takes the pucker, bloat, twist and other such warping tools from Illustrator, and puts them into PS.
Basically, it lays out a vector grid on top of the image you want to work, and then resamples it based on the effect you do to it.

This allows a neat melting effect for artistic use, and is impossible using Gimp, as Gimp has no vector tools.
Inkscape cannot do this either.
Cool stuff. Very artistic.
And really useful for creating graphics in Rasterized text.
If I have time I will post some examples of the Perspective tool.
VERY useful!

Anyway, see you guys later!
-Sara

----------


## smartboyathome

That statement is outdated. There is a Liquify plugin available now (I have it installed  :Smile: ), and there is a perspective tool and a free transform tool. There is GIMP-gap for animations (as well as just regular GIMP for GIFs, as long as you keep it to 1 frame per layer). As of 2.4, it has a healing brush, and I think the patch tool is actually the "cloning" tool. GIMP does have an effect gallery. GIMP can do vertical type or type around selection by using paths. The rest of the post after that basically looks like a rant.

Also, GIMP has no vector tools because it tries to do one thing (image editing) and do it well. It doesn't try to do vector stuff, that is Inkscape's domain (I find the combo quite powerful).

----------


## acelin

How about we wait for Photoshop designed for Linux? It will happen.

Then we torrent. :Guitar:

----------


## dmn_clown

> Also, GIMP has no vector tools because it tries to do one thing (image editing) and do it well. It doesn't try to do vector stuff, that is Inkscape's domain (I find the combo quite powerful).


There is a vector plugin for the gimp.

----------


## smartboyathome

Yes, but it is not part of GIMP because of that reason.  :Wink:

----------


## suchawato

Hmm, I'm actually impressed.
I'll have to look into that.
It would be nice if they were available as a complete package and not individual plugins.

However I will look into that and see.

Liquify is a vector tool.

Now if Gimp can just support higher than 8 bit, we'd be all set..

Some of those things still apply though
The healing tools are very important.
There is not a magic lasso tool,
there is not a lot of things.

It's getting there.

The most important thing is to support higher than 8 bit.

If it could support 48 bit or higher that would be amazing.
64 bit would drop my jaw.

By the way, would you mind posting a quick pic that used the Gimp liquefy plugin?
That would be nice.

Thanks!
-Sara

----------


## OttoDestruct

> How about we wait for Photoshop designed for Linux? It will happen.
> 
> Then we torrent.


And send the message for any future developers that there's no point in spending money on commercial Linux programs. Linux is a tiny niche compared to the windows juggernaut. If the same percent of Linux users pirated LinuxShop as Windows users, you can be damn sure nobody will ever develop for Linux because its no financially viable.

----------


## t3hi3x

> And send the message for any future developers that there's no point in spending money on commercial Linux programs. Linux is a tiny niche compared to the windows juggernaut. If the same percent of Linux users pirated LinuxShop as Windows users, you can be damn sure nobody will ever develop for Linux because its no financially viable.


Amen. See my quote below.

----------


## whiteraven

Not trying to beat a dead horse here but:



> Railsbuntu said: Creating nice gradients on a shape is simply not possible with Gimp.


Ya know, it just bugged me that you would make that statement given your obvious lack of familiarity with GIMP. Now, I'm not upset that that you said that, instead it got me inspired me experiment a bit rather than throw something at you like I did with the previous example in which you rightfully pointed out the faint dark "bordering". I did a little digging into color theory and applied what I learned to the attached images - one is by GIMP and the other is your P$ original. Aside from the gradient angle (which I did not try to duplicate exactly), I believe you'll find the images remarkably similar.

Perhaps rsambuca said it well "Just because you don't know how to do something does not mean that it isn't possible."

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## smartboyathome

It is possible, I outlined my steps before, it just isn't as "easy" as a vector imaging program. Also, I haven't used the magic lasso, but is it similar to the scissor tool?

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## whiteraven

The magic lasso selects polygonal areas by dragging the mouse around the intended selection, sorta like a hand drawn selection. The scissor tool works by selecting similar color pixels linear between pick points - different animal altogether.



> It is possible, I outlined my steps before, it just isn't as "easy" as a vector imaging program.


Creating the gradient image seemed easy to me, but I'm familiar with GIMP, and not at all with Inkscape. Gotta learn that program someday soon after seeing all the fine vector-based work by you and others!

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## st0n3cutt3r

I am amazed that this thread has 92k views.

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## Mithrilhall

> do you see the extent of skin showing on that girl) on our screen. could not have taken a screen shot of something better.


Now what is better than an attractive females body?

Now what always makes me laugh are the people that complain that you recommended a piece of shareware. Heaven forbid you actually have to pay for a piece of software. Yet they're the first ones to complain that Adobe doesn't port their software to Linux.

So you want Adobe to write applications for Linux to give away for free???  :Confused:  I'm truly confused here.

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## frankspace

> That statement is outdated. There is a Liquify plugin available now (I have it installed ), and there is a perspective tool and a free transform tool. There is GIMP-gap for animations (as well as just regular GIMP for GIFs, as long as you keep it to 1 frame per layer). As of 2.4, it has a healing brush, and I think the patch tool is actually the "cloning" tool. GIMP does have an effect gallery. GIMP can do vertical type or type around selection by using paths.


Sorry to dig up an old thread like this, but could you tell me where to find this free transform tool?  I've been using the GIMP exclusively for quite a while, and although I know the perspective tool well, I've looked and looked and looked and I cannot find a free transform tool or anything that looks remotely similar.  There appear to be a few individual ways to distort things in the GIMP (perspective, rotate, scale, shear, and flip), but absolutely nothing like Photoshop's "Free Transform."  In fact, everything I can find on Google lists that as one of the major things missing.  And I'm using GIMP version 2.4.5.

I'm probably being dim, or maybe my Google-fu is worse than I thought, but either way, I beg you:  please tell me specifically and explicitly where to find this, assuming for the sake of discussion that I am a total moron.  Please?

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## rykel

Hi pals,

I currently use GIMP mainly to crop, add an occasional text and "censor" out parts of a picture. (the FILL SELECTION bucket)

Thus, GIMP is an overkill for such simple tasks.

Is there a lighter version of GIMP, or program for Ubuntu? (if it is web-based, it is even better)

I found Photoshop Express Online useful, but it does not yet have the Fill Selection black-out feature I need.

My apologies if this post is a little bit off from the main thread. Thanks!!

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## FFighter

Gimp is awkward, period.

Photoshop ftw. 

Inskcape is nice. 

Illustrator ftw.

Unfortunately, Adobe suite still wins.

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## Perfect Storm

This thread have run its course (since 2005) and therefore closed. If anyone have something to say *Which add a new thing or havn't been said*, contact the forum staff - explain what you want to add and we might re-open the thread.


regards
A.I. Dude

Ubuntu Forum Staff

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