HowTo install KDE 3 into Intrepid (repost)

[TekkieFreak]

This works absolutely beautifully for me Thank You, thank you, thank you!!

My hubby has been using Linux for years...and I just recently decided to switch over from my Mac to Ubuntu. Anyway, I followed your instructions (with some help from hubby) and now I'm happily running 3.5 and it is absolutely *AMAZING*....so again...THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!

[Arby]

Hi folks,

The existence of this repository is causing some concern among the Kubuntu
developers. We know there are people who still want KDE3, but recommend they
stick with 8.04 (Hardy) rather than use an untested and unsupported third party
archive. We are continuing to support Hardy for those users. In particular
there are some things about the way in which version numbers of the packages are
handled. Including a 7 at the start of the version number means that those
packages will always be newer than any package in the official Kubuntu repos
which all use an epoch of 4. This is probably the desired effect in the short
term for people using this KDE3 repository. However it is likely to cause
serious problems in the future as none of the official upgrade tools will be
unable to calculate a workable upgrade when the time comes for the transition
8.10 to 9.04 and future versions. If the upgrade does manage to proceed then the
end result is likely to be a badly broken system.

In addition, as future releases of KDE3 become less and less common the amount
of work required to maintain a usable KDE3 desktop will increase
dramatically. The interfaces presented by the underlying OS (kernel, X.org,
networking etc) will evolve but KDE3 software is unlikely to evolve to work with
those interfaces. At present the differences are small but they will grow. That
means this project extends from being a packaging effort into a coding and
patching project as well.

One of the main reasons that we decided not to keep KDE3 in Intrepid is that we
simply do not have the manpower to maintain both. If there are other people
prepared to do the work then we are open to discussion. If you want to contact
us on our mailing list at kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com then we can try to work
out if there is a way for these packages to co-exist without breaking the
package management system.

regards,
Arby (on behalf of the Kubuntu development team)

[madscientist159]

Back when Madscientist159 first started his work, I suggested contacting the kubuntu devs. He declined to do so. So maybe that is why no one has contacted him?


there just happens to be a Kubuntu meeting today @ 20:00 GMT.....................

It's not that I don't want to join, I've just been snowed under at work for the past few weeks. Any spare "ubuntu time" has gone into fixing various bugs and packaging problems, or updating one of the many Hardy machines I still have around the house. That plus having to learn new tools (believe it or not I have never used IRC!) probably made it look like I declined. Sorry!

If you are willing to let me in anyway, then I do have something that I could use some help with. There is a user who is trying to use his bluetooth mouse with KDE on Intrepid (http://bugs.pearsoncomputing.net/show_bug.cgi?id=4) and it won't work. I do not have any Bluetooth peripherals to test with (yet) so I am at a loss as to what might be the problem. Maybe someone has (a lot) more Bluetooth knowledge than I do and could help?

I would be willing to compile/maintain KDE3.5 for Jaunty as well, now that I know the process and what to expect.

Just read the post right above this one. First, I apologize for any problems I am (or will be) causing. I would be happy to alter the packaging system to be more compatible--when I compiled this my first and foremost goal was to get KDE3 back onto Intrepid as fast as possible.

I do understand that the underlying interfaces will change--in fact, I ran into this several times already, but was able to patch around the problems in all cases (except Bluetooth, as I do not know what is wrong). I will do the work in what ways I can, but my time is limited, so there should be at least one other person who can help with this undertaking.

Ideally, KDE3 would be able to coexist with KDE4. If I attempt this, would others on the kubuntu-devel list be able to assist if needed? There are a lot of packages to change before this is possible, and I do not know if I will be able to alter all of them before Jaunty is released.

If anyone is still wondering why I (and others) didn't stay with Hardy, consider that:
1. A network printer spooler hang (requiring a restart to clear) was fixed in Intrepid
2. The new Xorg is faster
3. The Samba domain browser finally works in Intrepid
4. wxMaxima can finally generate plots in Intrepid
I have more, and I am sure others can add to this list, but you get the idea. Sticking with Hardy is never going to fix those, or other, problems that users have.

[dualscreenman]

Kdebluetooth would have to be ported to the bluez 0.4 api. This is the same problem causing kdebluetooth4's failure in Intrepid.

As for package co-existance, the proper method would be to make the kde3 packages like the kde4 packages in Hardy were (except in reverse): add -kde3 extensions to the end of each package, install the binaries at /usr/lib/kde3 and patch the packages to use ~/.kde3 to save configuration data. This way they can live in peace with KDE4 and dist-upgrades to Jaunty and onward should still go OK. The method is not perfect-- like with the Hardy KDE4 packages sudo will not work with binaries installed to a non-default location-- but the method is much better than adding an epoch of 7 to the package versioning.

Unfortunately, it will be very hard for existing users of your current packaging to transition to the -kde3 packages, due to the epoch of 7.

[madscientist159]

Kdebluetooth would have to be ported to the bluez 0.4 api. This is the same problem causing kdebluetooth4's failure in Intrepid.

As for package co-existance, the proper method would be to make the kde3 packages like the kde4 packages in Hardy were (except in reverse): add -kde3 extensions to the end of each package, install the binaries at /usr/lib/kde3 and patch the packages to use ~/.kde3 to save configuration data. This way they can live in peace with KDE4 and dist-upgrades to Jaunty and onward should still go OK. The method is not perfect-- like with the Hardy KDE4 packages sudo will not work with binaries installed to a non-default location-- but the method is much better than adding an epoch of 7 to the package versioning.

Unfortunately, it will be very hard for existing users of your current packaging to transition to the -kde3 packages, due to the epoch of 7.

There is one way--I will generate an apt-get remove command that contains all of the epoch 7 packages. Then they can immediately reinstall the -kde3 packages they want. Am I thinking correctly there?

[dentaku65]

Hi folks,

The existence of this repository is causing some concern among the Kubuntu
developers. We know there are people who still want KDE3, but recommend they
stick with 8.04 (Hardy) rather than use an untested and unsupported third party
archive. We are continuing to support Hardy for those users. In particular
there are some things about the way in which version numbers of the packages are
handled. Including a 7 at the start of the version number means that those
packages will always be newer than any package in the official Kubuntu repos
which all use an epoch of 4. This is probably the desired effect in the short
term for people using this KDE3 repository. However it is likely to cause
serious problems in the future as none of the official upgrade tools will be
unable to calculate a workable upgrade when the time comes for the transition
8.10 to 9.04 and future versions. If the upgrade does manage to proceed then the
end result is likely to be a badly broken system.

In addition, as future releases of KDE3 become less and less common the amount
of work required to maintain a usable KDE3 desktop will increase
dramatically. The interfaces presented by the underlying OS (kernel, X.org,
networking etc) will evolve but KDE3 software is unlikely to evolve to work with
those interfaces. At present the differences are small but they will grow. That
means this project extends from being a packaging effort into a coding and
patching project as well.

One of the main reasons that we decided not to keep KDE3 in Intrepid is that we
simply do not have the manpower to maintain both. If there are other people
prepared to do the work then we are open to discussion. If you want to contact
us on our mailing list at kubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com then we can try to work
out if there is a way for these packages to co-exist without breaking the
package management system.

regards,
Arby (on behalf of the Kubuntu development team)

Thank you Arby for your post and proposal.
I hope Madscientist159 among others here can contact the Kubuntu devel Team in order to realize officially the kde3 package for Kubuntu Intrepid. I personally not so brilliant in repository/packaging stuff, but I can give my full support as tester without problems.
Pls, let's doing possible this!
Because staying with Hardy is not an option at all, sorry.

[madscientist159]

I have been personally contacted by the Kubuntu developers and asked to take the repository offline. At this point, to avoid further problems, that is what I will do.

Don't worry, we will be working on a proper way to get KDE3 onto Intrepid. Most of those who really, really wanted KDE3 probably already have it at this point, and those who do not can wait for the fixed packages.

Tim

[minneyar]

Hi folks,

The existence of this repository is causing some concern among the Kubuntu
developers. We know there are people who still want KDE3, but recommend they
stick with 8.04 (Hardy) rather than use an untested and unsupported third party
archive.

Unfortunately, it wasn't until after I had upgraded to Intrepid and spent some time actually working in KDE4 that I decided that I really did prefer KDE3 and it wasn't just the fact that I was unfamiliar with something new.

So my options were to either wipe my system and go back to Hardy or install some unofficial KDE3 packages... I'm glad I got them while the mirror was still up.

[dentaku65]

I have been personally contacted by the Kubuntu developers and asked to take the repository offline. At this point, to avoid further problems, that is what I will do.

Don't worry, we will be working on a proper way to get KDE3 onto Intrepid. Most of those who really, really wanted KDE3 probably already have it at this point, and those who do not can wait for the fixed packages.

Tim

Posted on #1

[TekkieFreak]

Hey guys, I'm willing to help if at all possible. Just let me know what you need. I used to be a programmer (mostly java).

Jill

BTW, I'd LOVE to see KDE4 get up to speed....so would be more than willing to help with that also.

I too really like the idea of getting kde3 and kde4 able to coexist. I really love all the *bling* (what can I
say, I'm a girl --- and it's such a nice change going from osX (where you can't configure anything except your wallpaper)....to kde where you can configure most everything.