rEFIt can cause disk failure?

[PaulFXH]

I've been using a MB (C2D) for about a year with 11 partitions on a 160 GB HDD. I use these partitions for OS X (10.5.4) and four Linux OSes (including Hardy Heron).
I use rEFIt and Grub for my multibooting setup.
Yesterday, I ran into a problem in OS X which looked like it was permissions/priviledges-related but I was unable to fix the problem with Repair Permissions (errored out with

The underlying task reported failure on exit

I then tried to reinstall OS X on its partition but the installer claimed that installation was not possible because of a Volume Check error.
So, into Disk Utility to try and erase everything in the OS X partition. This seemed to be going fine until it errored out at the last minute saying

Disk Utility Internal Error
Please quit and relaunch Disk Utility

However, still get the same error no matter how many times I try the erase.
I spoke at length with Apple about this problem and they, perhaps understandably, tended to blame rEFIt and the large number of partitions on my HD as perhaps interfering with the directory structure on the OS X partition.
I would like to ask if anybody has ever seen anything even approaching this as a consequence of multibooting using rEFIt?

[cyberdork33]

rEFIt has nothing to do with all that so I don't know how you could blame it. The Apple people apparently spread a lot of FUD about rEFIt for some reason as can be evidenced by a number of posts here.

Based on what you are saying here, I have gotten a similar error in OSX before (without any other partitions on the disk). I was unable to repair it with the utilities available. The only thing that recovered my system was Disk Warrior.

However, since you said you have so many partitions, I would assume that you are using a normal MBR style partition table with no GPT. This would be the reason that OS X will not install. It will only allow installs to GPT disks.

[PaulFXH]

rEFIt has nothing to do with all that so I don't know how you could blame it. The Apple people apparently spread a lot of FUD about rEFIt for some reason as can be evidenced by a number of posts here.

Thanks for this lucid explanation. That clears up a lot for me. I'm glad to hear rEFIt is not the culprit as I'll be using it later today to restore my setup [Although I now have the problem of knowing what in fact WAS the culprit]

Based on what you are saying here, I have gotten a similar error in OSX before (without any other partitions on the disk). I was unable to repair it with the utilities available. The only thing that recovered my system was Disk Warrior.

Maybe it's time for me to save up and buy Disk Warrior. I know the guys in the repair shops speak very highly of it.

However, since you said you have so many partitions, I would assume that you are using a normal MBR style partition table with no GPT. This would be the reason that OS X will not install. It will only allow installs to GPT disks.

Well, actually, both a MBR and a GPT table appear in the partition section which is available on the rEFIt menu page. I don't really know a whole lot about this area but I did my partitioning with Parted Magic.
Is GPT vs MBR an option I can consider as I prepare to carve up my disk space again if GPT will allow me to re-install OS X without erasing the whole disk (which is what I had to do this time)?

[cyberdork33]

Is GPT vs MBR an option I can consider as I prepare to carve up my disk space again if GPT will allow me to re-install OS X without erasing the whole disk (which is what I had to do this time)?

I honestly don't know how you can get much more than a couple "legacy OS" installs without going to an MBR disk. To get around the installer check for that, you can install normally, create an image of the partition on an external drive or so, then carve up your main drive and restore the OSX image to the correct MBR partition.

[PaulFXH]

Thanks for the reply.
However, I really believe that what I have set up on my MB HD is a GPT partition system.
Parted Magic refused to allow me to create extended partitions and, in consequence, logical partitions. All eleven partitions are primary. An MBR system allows a maximum of four.
It seems that Parted Magic knew that the existing hfsplus partition will only be happy in a GPT table.
Actually, the reason I couldn't reinstall OS X was because its partition had been damaged somehow or other.

[cyberdork33]

Thanks for the reply.
However, I really believe that what I have set up on my MB HD is a GPT partition system.
Parted Magic refused to allow me to create extended partitions and, in consequence, logical partitions. All eleven partitions are primary. An MBR system allows a maximum of four.
It seems that Parted Magic knew that the existing hfsplus partition will only be happy in a GPT table.
Actually, the reason I couldn't reinstall OS X was because its partition had been damaged somehow or other.

Yep from all that you have posted so far, that sounds more likely. You might make a nice detailed post on how you have so many bootable Linux installs on your machine someday

[PaulFXH]

I am quite sure that there's nothing in what I have done that will either surprise or enlighten you. It's all very straightforward and much, if not all of it, I picked up from this forum.
By no means does this merit a detailed howto, but here are the esential parts of how I built my multiboot system on my MB (C2D, 160 GB HDD)

1. Install Mac OS X
2. Use Parted Magic to create as many extra partitions as you will need (I created 9; 8 are ext3 and 1 linux-swap)
3. Install rEFIt in OS X
4. Install Ubuntu (I used partition #9 for ubuntu / and #10 for ubuntu /home)
5. Put Ubuntu Grub bootloader in MBR

Now when you start the Mac, the rEFIt screen will allow you to choose either OS X or Linux/Penguin. Choosing Linux brings you to a Grub menu.

6. Install other Linux OSes (I created a / and a /home for each OS. Then I put Foresight in partitions 3 & 4, openSUSE in partitions 5 & 6, and Sidux in partitions 7 & 8. Totally unecessarily, Foresight refuses to install on anything but the first 4 partitions). In the case of each new OS, I either did NOT install a bootloader or I put it in the root partition of the OS itself. IOW, DON'T put it in the MBR)
7. Now just go into Ubuntu and modify the /boot/grub/menu.lst file to include all of the additional Linux OSes you want to boot through Ubuntu's Grub
8. Reboot

That's all there is to it.
Indeed, I have another 7 Linux OSes on an external USB drive that I can similarly boot from Ubuntu's Grub.

[cyberdork33]

4. Install Ubuntu (I used partition #9 for ubuntu / and #10 for ubuntu /home)
5. Put Ubuntu Grub bootloader in MBR

Now when you start the Mac, the rEFIt screen will allow you to choose either OS X or Linux/Penguin. Choosing Linux brings you to a Grub menu.

6. Install other Linux OSes (I created a / and a /home for each OS. Then I put Foresight in partitions 3 & 4, openSUSE in partitions 5 & 6, and Sidux in partitions 7 & 8. Totally unecessarily, Foresight refuses to install on anything but the first 4 partitions). In the case of each new OS, I either did NOT install a bootloader or I put it in the root partition of the OS itself. IOW, DON'T put it in the MBR)
7. Now just go into Ubuntu and modify the /boot/grub/menu.lst file to include all of the additional Linux OSes you want to boot through Ubuntu's Grub
8. Reboot

I guess this is the issue that is different for you as opposed to others... GRUB should only be capable of "booting" from one of the 4 MBR partitions... that's it. This is especially true since the supporting GRUB files (like menu.lst) are not on a partition that is in the MBR... Are you using GRUB-efi or something? How are you able to get GRUB to boot a partition other than one defined in the MBR?

Indeed, I have another 7 Linux OSes on an external USB drive that I can similarly boot from Ubuntu's Grub.

That is even MORE suprising... Almost nobody can get "booting from an external hard drive" to work... period. (other than placing a /boot partition on the internal drive within the MBR table).

What specific hardware are you on?

[PaulFXH]

I have been running a multiboot system like this on an old Dell desktop with a 160 GB Philips usb HDD attached for more than two years. I have never had any problems with it.
When I got the MacBook about a year ago, I simply replicated what I had done on the Dell.
If there is anything at all to be learnt, it is in how to set up the /boot/grub/menu.lst Note that, in both cases, ALL booting (other than OS X on the Mac) is done through Ubuntu's Grub. I don't go near any of the other boot menus.
So, for example, on the Dell, this is an example of parts of my /boot/grub/menu.lst file

title		Ubuntu 8.04, kernel 2.6.24-19-generic
root		(hd0,5)
kernel		/boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic root=/dev/sda6 ro quiet splash
initrd		/boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic
quiet


title		Foresight Linux vmlinuz-2.6.25.9-2-fl.smp.gcc4.1.x86.i686
root		(hd0,5)
kernel		/boot/foresight/vmlinuz-2.6.25.9-2-fl.smp.gcc4.1.x86.i686 root=/dev/sdb9 quiet ro vga=0x317 splash 
initrd		/boot/foresight/initrd-2.6.25.9-2-fl.smp.gcc4.1.x86.i686.img
savedefault
boot

title		Arch Linux
root		(hd0,5)
kernel		/boot/arch/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sdb8 ro 
initrd		/boot/arch/kernel26.img
savedefault
boot

title		Kurumin Linux 2.6.24-19-generic
root		(hd0,5)
kernel		/boot/kurumin/vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic root=/dev/sdb15 vga=791  
initrd		/boot/kurumin/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic


title		FreeBSD 7.0
root		(hd0,3,a)
kernel		/boot/loader

title		Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
root		(hd0,1)
savedefault
makeactive
chainloader	+1

Here, only Ubuntu, FreeBSD and WindowsXP are stored on the Dell internal HDD. Foresight, Kurumin and Arch are all stored on the external usb drive.
In these cases, the vmlinuz and initrd.img files for each OS must be available within the /boot on the Ubuntu / partition on the internal drive which is the only drive that is bootable in my situation. For this reason, the root line for all the OSes externally stored is the same as for Ubuntu because that's where the bootloader must look for the vmlinuz and initrd.img files of whatever OS is being booted.
However, once booting has started, Grub needs to be directed to where all the rest of the stuff is which is its partition on the external drive.
So, you can see in /boot/grub/menu.lst for Foresight, Grub is first directed to (hd0,5) in the root line (which is /dev/sda6). However, it then is redirected to /dev/sda9 in the kernel line.

Basically, there's very little more to it than just that. I haven't at all done anything especial on the Mac to get the same thing to work fine other than install rEFIt to handle booting the OS X

[cyberdork33]

I have been running a multiboot system like this on an old Dell desktop with a 160 GB Philips usb HDD attached for more than two years. I have never had any problems with it.

not suprised, this is really just a Mac-specific issue...

When I got the MacBook about a year ago, I simply replicated what I had done on the Dell.
If there is anything at all to be learnt, it is in how to set up the /boot/grub/menu.lst Note that, in both cases, ALL booting (other than OS X on the Mac) is done through Ubuntu's Grub. I don't go near any of the other boot menus.

Yes, I understand that. You can also chainload bootloaders so that each install of linux can keep it's own menu.lst up to date properly when you do updates. For example, on my Dell Inspiron, I have a small ext2 partition at the front of the drive with Grub installed there. the menu.lst only contains chainloader entries to load grub on each of the individual Linux installs> You have to go through two menus, but you don't have to manually edit the menu.lst all the time.

So, for example, on the Dell, this is an example of parts of my /boot/grub/menu.lst file

title        Ubuntu 8.04, kernel 2.6.24-19-generic
root        (hd0,5)
kernel        /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-19-generic root=/dev/sda6 ro quiet splash
initrd        /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-19-generic
quiet

See, for most (on the macs), this simply would not work. Because hd0,5 is not an entry in the MBR partition table, then grub cannot even tell it exists. What do the MBR table and GPT look like on your Mac? (In OS X, in /Applications/Utilities there is a partition inspector that is part of rEFIt. You can copy and paste the table data from there. the output of 'sudo fdisk -l' in ubuntu would be nice too to compare against.

Here, only Ubuntu, FreeBSD and WindowsXP are stored on the Dell internal HDD. Foresight, Kurumin and Arch are all stored on the external usb drive.
In these cases, the vmlinuz and initrd.img files for each OS must be available within the /boot on the Ubuntu / partition on the internal drive which is the only drive that is bootable in my situation.

OK, yea this is similar to the work around that has been found generally for booting from an external drive. The /boot partition for the OS has to be on the internal disk (basically it needs the kernel) Once the kernel loads then the USB disk is accessible for other things.

Basically, there's very little more to it than just that. I haven't at all done anything especial on the Mac to get the same thing to work fine other than install rEFIt to handle booting the OS X

What hardware and version is it? Are you completely up-to-date with firmware, etc?

sudo dmidecode -s system-product-version
sudo dmidecode -s bios-version