C# in Unix

[tseliot]

I never said otherwise

I was replying to the suitability of Java for desktop applications. I know that GTK# is more widespread than java-gnome.

However, one must note that the Java-GNOME bindings are not mature and do not commit to API stability (I just re-read their website in case things had changed).

I have never tried Java-GNOME therefore, if you say so, I believe you

This basically means that if you are serious about writing Java desktop applications, you have to choose a fugly UI toolkit that will not fit in with any other applications running on the desktop. Who in their right mind would want to do that? Clearly not many people do, or we'd have Java apps on our desktop - but we don't!

I'm not a fan of Swing integration either. I have tried QT4 with both Python and C++ and if QT-Jambi is at least as good as the Python bindings then I think that QT-Jambi would be a sensible choice for Java developers. And QT4 is cross platform too.

Innovate or die. Java chose to die.

I think that making Java open source was a good move though. I hope it's not too late.

[alternatealias]

I was replying to the suitability of Java for desktop applications. I know that GTK# is more widespread than java-gnome.

Ah, okay - I misunderstood your comment.

I have never tried Java-GNOME therefore, if you say so, I believe you

Hopefully it will improve some day...

I'm not a fan of Swing integration either. I have tried QT4 with both Python and C++ and if QT-Jambi is at least as good as the Python bindings then I think that QT-Jambi would be a sensible choice for Java developers. And QT4 is cross platform too.

I haven't yet tried QT-Jambi and I'm not sure that I ever will, mostly because I prefer the Gtk widget toolkit that the rest of my ubuntu desktop uses, but also because I'm quite happy using C# now and it would take a bit more than bindings to a UI toolkit to get me to go back to Java (I make heavy use of generics and properties which Java does very poorly/not at all respectively)

I think that making Java open source was a good move though. I hope it's not too late.

Yes, I agree. Too little too late? Only time will tell...

[LaRoza]

Considering that Java wasn't originally meant to be used on the desktop, it is remarkably resilient.

It is now the new DVD menu technology (DVD's have been using something not so great for menu's, but Blu-Ray uses Java), so to say it is dying is obviously wrong. I think that statically typed languages like Java will be used less where they aren't needed, but they will certainly still be used.

[lnostdal]

dunno of this has been mentioned .. but most developers don't bother with gnome integration anyway (_regardless_ of language) .. they use gtk+ instead .. this is true for java desktop apps also .. some examples are frostwire and azureus

http://www.eclipse.org/swt/ .. is, afaik, the most widely used java bindings for gtk+

edit:
note; gtk+ isn't gnome .. in the same way kde isn't qt

edit2:
more examples:
http://www.eclipse.org/screenshots/
http://gumtree.codehaus.org/Screenshots
http://udig.refractions.net/gallery/
http://sourceforge.net/project/scree...roup_id=211252
..and the ones i mentioned..
http://www.frostwire.com/screenshots/
http://azureus.sourceforge.net/screenshots_v2.php

edit3 / note / disclaimer:
i don't care for either language (java nor c#) .. i do find the potential of a portable VM interesting though (to run other languages on) .. the work sun is doing on making the JVM smaller is interesting

[pmasiar]

Lots of good insight - which will be lost in this thread. We should have started "Java vs C# on Linux" long time ago.

Yes, I also believe that Java screwed up 10 years head-start, and now might not have enough money to catch up.

MSFT is already step ahead: they are integrating CLR with DLR (Dynamic language runtime), so you can mix and match C#, Python, Ruby, Javascript and I bet VB in one application. Sad part is that Jython, Python for Java, was ignored for 10 years. I know that past data is not guarantee of future performance, but IMHO it is very strong hint that Sun does not get it.

[themusicwave]

Good points all around.

I too am hoping that Open Source will be a huge improvement for Java. I know there are a few things I would like to see in Java that I might be willing to implement.

I'll be the first to admit part of why I don't like C# is that it was designed to be a vendor lock in. That's what Microsoft has always wanted form .Net. Technically it's not a bad language, although most of it was just reimplementing what Java already had then they added on.

It should also be noted that you can set the UIManager to native look and feel. This makes it look pretty similar to gnome. I can't tell the difference, although I am not a graphics designer. Works well on Windows XP too.

I have not ventured into Mono at all, just used Microsoft C# on Windows, I was writing some early today honestly.

I still think Java has a bright future ahead of it, but C# will also gain market share. When Windows has 80+% market share it's primary programming language has to be popular.

I too am not too happy with the whole Jython thing, they are trying to bring groovy in now. I haven't tried it though.

Maybe later I'll post some places Java is superior, no time now. Both have places they are better.

[pmasiar]

I too am not too happy with the whole Jython thing, they are trying to bring groovy in now.

That's yet another proof that they don't get it. Python is accepted, but no, they have to force something different down community throats, so they are in the control. Microsoft hired Jython developer to make DLR better, and released IronPython (which is faster then CPython) to community - of course under their own Non-GPL license, and they jawboned OSI to approve that license to have cover. Sad.

But now it looks that "Google for the rescue" will have more elegant solution Free webhosting by Google: App Engine (with Python and Django) will change game - quite a lot, IMHO.