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Thread: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

  1. #1
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    Re: Speaking other languages is against Ubuntu's principles

    So why hasn't pricechild closed this thread down then?

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=647847

    This is 4 pages of "foreign" language that has gone completely unchecked!

    There could be any number of blasphemous, or even really naughty words being used!!!!!!

    I can hear the answer already: Oh, but that's just a game!

    Nah, that don't cut it buddy, pricechild's attack on the original OP's thread was selective and elitist, which means racist, pure and simple.

    Racism starts as a game too.

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    Re: Speaking other languages is against Ubuntu's principles

    These posts have been copied from this thread.

    I think that calling me racist is totally unfounded, unacceptable, offensive and hurtful. I have given you the Forums CoC (guidelines/rules) and explained the reasoning behind it.

    I would like to mention that mods are not all seeing. "But someone else did it!" is not a valid excuse. It might just mean that no-one's seen it. A lot of our activities on the forums are acting on the many post reports from other members.
    Last edited by PriceChild; January 20th, 2008 at 01:27 PM.
    Every time you install Jaunty, a kitten........ wait sorry what year is this again?
    Please don't PM support questions, post a thread so that everyone can benefit
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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    1) for the sake of staff and admins who want to see it, I moved the original posts to the jail.

    2) the manner in which the OP chose to make his comments is unfortunate and unappreciated. They were made in a very demeaning and accusing tone and they singled out one specific staff person. That was uncalled for and not necessary.

    3) Was the forums policy on English only being applied inconsistently? Maybe. Who cares? Furthermore, it is very simple to convert binary to text, and I am going to take a wild guess that the posts in the thread in question are all easily converted to English. If you would like to do so, you may report any post that contains a message that uses inappropriate language. I know many of the primary participants in that thread, and I know they would do the same thing, so I am quite sure you will not find one. Really, though, I think this has nothing to do with the real foundation for your comment(s), but since you have not yet been forthcoming in expressing the real problem, I have no clue what that might be.

    I know that PriceChild is not a racist. The accusation is unfounded and rude. Whatever your problem is with him, you are using this as an excuse to cause trouble. Please stop.

    If you have a real issue you would like to discuss, please feel free to bring it up.
    what's a troll? | my blog | my writing | Ubuntu Unleashed

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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    These posts (as long as they remain unedited by the forum moderators or staff) are my reasons for accusing Mr pricechild of racist behaviour.

    And after seeing the title he gave my "complaining" post,
    Wah! PriceChild isn't doing things exactly as I want him to and so I'm going to whine
    found here:
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=673029

    I will also add childish to that list of accusations.

    Evidence

    1. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621469

    This thread was running along smoothly, no complaints, for 12 posts, then Mr pricechild drops in and announces that speaking in a non-english language is against forum rules, for seemingly no apparent reason.

    2. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621469

    This thread was then started to question that behaviour, and subsequently yielded the following replies by Mr pricechild:

    a.
    This forum is English speaking.

    There are subforums for LoCo channels available on request.
    b.
    There are many reasons for requesting only English on the main forums... one big one being "how do the mods know you're not attacking other users in a language they don't understand"
    c.
    How do I know what you just said isn't defamatory, offensive etc. etc. etc. ?

    The rule on languages is not there to prevent english speaking people being excluded, it is there so that the forum can be managed effectively. This is why subforums with moderators speaking the native language are permitted to use that language.
    Then a day or so later I discovered this thread:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=647847

    which made me ask myself why Mr pricechild didn't have the same objections. seeing as it is written completely in a "foreign" language, and surely conforms to his objections stated in points 2a, 2b, and 2c above.

    Now apart from the glaringly obvious bias shown there, given that both of those threads are NOT in the main forum, but in the Community Cafe, I am personally offended by the reply Mr pricechild gave at 2c. Namely the sentence
    This is why subforums with moderators speaking the native language are permitted to use that language
    In my book, "permitted to use their own language" is an extremely racist comment.

    I have no idea how the law works in your part of the world, but in Australia racism is not racism until someone who is offended by seemingly racist behaviour complains about it, and it is discussed between the parties and settled, or is reported to the authorities who will then sort it out legally.

    That particular sentence, along with Mr pricechild's decision to "warn" against using a particular language, while ignoring other glaringly similar examples, is offensive to me, and I label that racist behaviour.

    I believe Mr pricechild made a gross error in judgement singling out the original thread, furthermore I believe that judgement was based on a racist premise, and I wish to formally complain about it.

    If Mr pricechild cannot prove that he acted without prejudice, I would like to suggest that he immediately apologise to me and the people in the original thread, both personally and publicly, and his position as an ubuntuforums administrator be reviewed.

    If this complaint is not taken seriously and simply dismissed, I will be writing an official complaint to Canonical Ltd.

    Yours faithfully,

    Kevin F Behringer (kvonb)

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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    I will look into this.

    Now calm down and cease the contiinued racist accusations at staff . You have made your point .
    This account is not active.

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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvonb View Post
    These posts (as long as they remain unedited by the forum moderators or staff) are my reasons for accusing Mr pricechild of racist behaviour.

    And after seeing the title he gave my "complaining" post, found here:
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=673029

    I will also add childish to that list of accusations.
    That one was my fault. I was having an unprofessional (yes, rather childish) moment and made a poor choice. I have edited the thread title to "user complaint". I take full responsibility for my silliness and I apologize.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvonb View Post
    Evidence

    1. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621469

    This thread was running along smoothly, no complaints, for 12 posts, then Mr pricechild drops in and announces that speaking in a non-english language is against forum rules, for seemingly no apparent reason.
    I have read through the entire thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvonb View Post
    2. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=621469

    This thread was then started to question that behaviour, and subsequently yielded the following replies by Mr pricechild:

    a. b. c.
    Then a day or so later I discovered this thread:

    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=647847

    which made me ask myself why Mr pricechild didn't have the same objections. seeing as it is written completely in a "foreign" language, and surely conforms to his objections stated in points 2a, 2b, and 2c above.

    Now apart from the glaringly obvious bias shown there, given that both of those threads are NOT in the main forum, but in the Community Cafe, I am personally offended by the reply Mr pricechild gave at 2c. Namely the sentence In my book, "permitted to use their own language" is an extremely racist comment.
    I disagree with your assessment. I read through the entire thread multiple times. PriceChild posted in a factual, calm manner. Saying someone is permitted to do something in a location where that permission has been granted is not racist in any way that I can see. I think you are reading into the phrase, perhaps due to a personal history (outside these forums?) of dealing with racist attitudes, a history that is likely real and painful. I can sympathize with that, but I don't believe there was any racist intent, nor do I believe the actions were racist.

    The only "obvious bias" that I see here is one that is coded into the forums' rules, which require posts to be made in English, simply because that is the language of these forums, which are designed for worldwide communication across cultural and national borders. For better or for worse, English is the defacto language of the internet, and the main language of the main constituency of these forums.

    We do, however, have several local community (LoCo) forums that use other languages. This is something we are thrilled to host and which have people involved in them with whom we are honored to be connected. These were not made as a concession by self-righteous, ethnocentric bigots, trying to keep the lowly masses content. The LoCo forums and teams are valuable parts of the Ubuntu community.

    The reason we restrict non-English languages to those parts of the forums is because those locations are the only places where people using languages other than English are likely to find people with whom they can communicate. What PriceChild gave as a reason was not inaccurate, but it was incomplete. If you reread his statement, that fact is clearly implied. "There are many reasons for requesting only English on the main forums... one big one being..."

    Quote Originally Posted by kvonb View Post
    I have no idea how the law works in your part of the world, but in Australia racism is not racism until someone who is offended by seemingly racist behaviour complains about it, and it is discussed between the parties and settled, or is reported to the authorities who will then sort it out legally.

    That particular sentence, along with Mr pricechild's decision to "warn" against using a particular language, while ignoring other glaringly similar examples, is offensive to me, and I label that racist behaviour.

    I believe Mr pricechild made a gross error in judgement singling out the original thread, furthermore I believe that judgement was based on a racist premise, and I wish to formally complain about it.

    If Mr pricechild cannot prove that he acted without prejudice, I would like to suggest that he immediately apologise to me and the people in the original thread, both personally and publicly, and his position as an ubuntuforums administrator be reviewed.

    If this complaint is not taken seriously and simply dismissed, I will be writing an official complaint to Canonical Ltd.
    As I read your threat I have come to the conclusion that we are not likely to agree on this.

    Please file your complaint with whomever you wish to file it.

    In general, the next level above this location (the forums' Resolution Center) would be the Forum Council, followed by the Ubuntu Community Council.

    EDIT: Kiwi posted while I was composing this. You have my opinion. I will let him look into the matter as well and he can let us know if he sees things differently.
    Last edited by matthew; January 20th, 2008 at 09:06 PM. Reason: added bottom note
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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    question , Kvonb please explain how wrtitting in machine code is racists?

    If it is ,then all programming must cease immediately?
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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by KiwiNZ View Post
    question , Kvonb please explain how wrtitting in machine code is racists?

    If it is ,then all programming must cease immediately?
    That is not the point of my complaint.

    The point is that it is also in a "non-english" language, and can not be understood by a "layman" without it being translated.

    People are posting and communicating in a non-english language, coding is not communicating between members of an online forum, and in that particular thread the posters are not coding, they are communicating in a "foreign" language, something that pricechild has already pointed out is against forum policy.

    So why does the binary post warrant being left alone, and the other one attacked?

    The definition of "foreign language" in this case (provided by the forum rules) is "non-english", therefore binary code is by your own rules, a "foreign language".

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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    Furthermore, I did not have the intent to threaten in my earlier post, I was simply trying to make my seriousness clear on the points I brought up.

    It is very easy to simply dismiss these things rather than take them seriously, and that was not the path I wanted to go down.

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    Re: Accusation of mod being unfairly selective, elitist and racist.

    Quote Originally Posted by kvonb View Post
    Furthermore, I did not have the intent to threaten in my earlier post, I was simply trying to make my seriousness clear on the points I brought up.

    It is very easy to simply dismiss these things rather than take them seriously, and that was not the path I wanted to go down.
    I am glad to hear that threatening was not your intent.

    I understand that you feel this issue deeply and that you are being serious in your complaint. I feel I have answered each point with equal seriousness.

    Perhaps some of the other Admins will have time to comment soon.
    what's a troll? | my blog | my writing | Ubuntu Unleashed

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