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Thread: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Beans
    6

    Cool Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    Since the sticky/wiki is worthless... I'd like to know what wireless pci card to buy.

    Everyone looks so smart when it comes to posting links to...

    https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Wi...CardsSupported
    https://www.fsf.org/resources/hw/net...ess/cards.html
    http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/joomla/
    http://www.Google.com
    (or other threads)

    ... and everyone is so quick to say "Well if you're having trouble with that broad com card, just buy a 10$ card that Ubuntu will see".

    I'd like the community to quit linking to other people's work when that work is not useful, if you guys can write a tutorial, then write an app, if its so easy and straight forward. If the tutorials are so good, then why cant they be batch files? Ignorance is not stupidity, and I'm tired of seeing people talked down to like not being born with Linux in the cradle is somehow a personal flaw. I have a decade of professional computer and tech support experience, I am not the problem here, and nor are most users.

    This demand for continuous duplication of effort is unrealistic and elitist. Just because you had to walk to school and use a slide rule does not mean the rest of us should have to. Prior art is the foundation upon which all technology is built and this applies to Ubuntu. A Tutorial is not a solution, its a stop gap until a real solution is found. The community needs to acknowledge this. The standard defenses/apologies for why Linux is an unusable, impractical, specialist, piece of crap, do not apply here, as this is intended for normal users... "Linux for people." Remember? So don't tell us we should prefer CLI, don't tell us we should be comfortable with compiling our own ware. These are OPTIONS not requirements.

    Transparency and ease of use should be primary goals.

    First, The install/upgrade process should be number 1. As no matter how cool the floaty cube desktop looks, if you can't install it what does it matter? The automatic recommended upgrade from fawn to gibbon irrevocably broke my system, and I'm not alone, I go mention this in the chat and I get 15 flavors of "thats what you get for upgrading so soon"... If its not ready, don't recommend it. Period. The installer is the first impression, it should be flawless.

    Second, and here's where my problem was generated as a result of the first step being ignored... true support for networking hardware. We need an automated NDISwrapper equivalent, maybe even a repository of windows WIFI card drivers. Imagine it... "X unsupported card detected, installing NDISwrapper, downloading driver, configuring driver and card, installation complete."

    Everything else should fall under these two in terms of priority.

    Again, a tutorial should not be seen as a final solution to a problem. A true solution is transparent.

    Having said all that here is what I and many others would like.

    A link (new egg/tiger direct/etc) to a PCI card that will work natively with Ubuntu and windows XP, with full support for WinXP, WEP, and whatever encryption Ubuntu prefers to use for under 15$. If you think there are too many choices that fall under that category then pick the cheapest.

    In short I want a link to what should become the official Ubuntu wireless card... until such time as Ubuntu is grown up enough to support the majority of wireless cards out of the box. Windows users are happy with downloading drivers, Ubuntu took it upon itself to be totally automated with regard to hardware, I would never have demanded this, (hence the total lack of a GUI device manager), and given that choice of paths, this demand is not unreasonable.

    And if I don't get this... If I get a link to a tutorial... If I get some smug insult about how I'm an insect mind because I don't speak c++ in my sleep... If I get a personal attack of any kind... Then I'm walking away from Ubuntu forever, as it will have finally proven itself to be just another Linux Distro, jam packed with elitists and complexity, totally devoid of practical value as a normal user windows alternative. And I will share this opinion to anyone whenever the subject of open source comes up, both professionally and personally.

    We are a society of specialists, everyone is ignorant about something, we should not be required to learn extraneous data, or duplicate effort. The computer itself was designed to protect humanity from tedious repetitive tasks.

    Thank you for your time.
    Last edited by Innomen; October 29th, 2007 at 09:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    SLC, UofU
    Beans
    684
    Distro
    Kubuntu Jaunty Jackalope (testing)

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    Welcome to the COMMUNITY forums....... Please be nice, not everybody is a super elite ultra professional.

    While I don't like your tone, I'm happy to get you as close to your goal as I can.

    Here's one! http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833320022

    $2 more expensive than you wanted, but ASUS has a native linux driver for it on their site.


    Personally, I suggest the Netgear WG111 v2 USB wireless adapter. It worked out of the box for me in Feisty, and in Gutsy was fully configurable from Network Manager (WPA, etc).

    Best of Luck, and remember that Linux is NOT Windows. Don't expect it to work the same.
    --Superb--

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Sacramento, Ca
    Beans
    85
    Distro
    Ubuntu 6.10 Edgy

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    I don't like your attitude much either.
    But see http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=387871

    In that post I helped a guy who put the problem courteously.
    It will explain why wireless problems exist (because manufacturer's won't release info) and what you can do to avoid the problem (get a wireless bridge)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Beans
    7

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    Hi,

    I am so pleased to read your post, as it highlights a fundamental problem for the take up of Ubuntu in the home market. I have struggled for the past 2 weeks trying to connect to the internet with a wireless card. Installing new software is fine with synaptic or the terminal.Success depends for the most part, on the internet and repositories.Home users expect a quick result if they are not linux enthusiasts.
    Critics of my views, say it is the fault of the hardware not providing Linux drivers. linux is trying to compete in the home desktop market as an OS to upgrade to. It therefore should expect internet connectivety issues.How can the ordinary Ubuntu user find help ? The local pc doctor would probably be unable to help,the user then has to search never ending forums with the risk of failure? The problem is confined to external devices. if you don't need them, Ubuntu has all you need.
    Part of my frustration is the fact I love Ubuntu, I want to use it. I don't want a dual boot machine.I hope that is not too far off.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Flagstaff, Arizona
    Beans
    99
    Distro
    Kubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    I too am a long-time Windows user with a networking degree under my belt and plenty of paychecks for techie services, and I too am pretty new to Linux, currently converting someone's laptop to Linux and ran into the won't-talk-wireless issue.

    My experience here has been different from yours however. No one's talked down to me and most all of my questions have been answered. My only complaint of the tutorial I followed on this site...
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=574501
    ...is that it would be nice if it started with showing us Linux newbies how to first scan for what we already had. Turned out my 2 week adventure with ndiswrapper was unnecessary. 7.10 found the wireless card just fine - it just needed 3 short lines of code to configure the networking.

    And if I understand you correctly, therein lies a core issue. "Why should we even need those 3 little lines of code?"

    As I understand it - and someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - that little extra need for user manipulation is part of what makes Linux so secure in many ways. The fact that you can't have a generic program written to do major brain surgery on anyone's kernel with a simple, I-don't-want-to-know-the-details press of a button.

    Also as I understand it, part of the problem lies in a world collectively geared towards Microsoft. Mac users once (and sometimes still do) had these same issues with components and programs that only play nice with Windows ... almost as if someone out there was planning it that way.

    Me, I found the manual manipulation needed to get the wireless card working a very small price to pay and further inspiration for never having to give Micro$oft another dime of my money again. (See above re; 'almost as if someone out there was planning it that way'). But I can understand and accept that not everyone feels the same. For some, security issues, cluttered registries, expense, an endless array of "Are you sure you're not too dumb to perform this task?" pop-up-boxes and generic programs that sometimes kill your PC while performing automated brain-surgery are a small price to pay for having said programs be fully automated when they do work and not having to learn GIMP in place of Photoshop.

    It's all a matter of which headache annoys you the least.

    - Jo

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Flagstaff, Arizona
    Beans
    99
    Distro
    Kubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    As a P.S....

    In this thread - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=594857 - kevdog, the author of a few of those tutorials, is looking for feedback on wireless issues. Presumably to make said tutorials that much brighter and better.

    - Jo

  7. #7

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    +1

    I agree 100 % with the original poster.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Beans
    7,721
    Distro
    Ubuntu Mate 16.04 Xenial Xerus

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    Hmm...You do know that no one hear posting in the forums is not receiving any money for their contribution??

    Rather than complaining, why dont you take the initiative and make the wireless installer for the thousands of wireless devices out there and ones yet to be released.

    Is it my job to provide you with an automated installer?? Or is it Ubuntu's??? Seriously the OS is free and manufacture's of wireless cards dont provide automated linux installers. Even if there was an automated installer, what would you do when your wireless connection breaks after an upgrade or for no apparent reason?? Reinstall the card -- or troubleshoot??

    No one claimed Linux was windows and some things require a little effort to get up and running. That is kind of the way it is right now. The trade off is that although its a rough introduction to the command line and linux, you actually LEARN SOMETHING that is going to help you in the future.

    Ive heard this rant from many people prior to you!! Stop complaining and contribute if you want to make a difference. All I can do right now is make HOW-To's since this really isnt my job. Sorry all the people making the HOW-TO's are not programmers, rather people who have wasted many hours and wanted to pass their knowledge along.

    Your complaints are total BS unless you are willing to make a difference!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    In the REAL world
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    I agree with the OP as well. And hey, you learn absolutely nothing from working with Linux that will help you unless you are a computer wizard.

    Wake up, lads, the world of tomorrow is automated. People do not want to re-enter 1985.

    Sorry all the people making the HOW-TO's are not programmers, rather people who have wasted many hours and wanted to pass their knowledge along.
    EXACTLY! Wasted! How many people WASTE time and youth struggling with all these problems? How many won't find this knowledge? An OS user is not supposed to be part of a "community" to use an OS.

    Last edited by UI-Freak; October 31st, 2007 at 04:41 AM.
    "Linux is best for technically savvy users or for people whose needs are so basic that they will never need anything other than the bundled software."

    - New York Times

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    US
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Official Ubuntu wireless card and goals rant.

    I don't know. I asked for advice on what wireless card to get, and I got good advice. The general consensus seemed to be Intel Pro Wireless 2200. I got it, and it's worked wonderfully with Ubuntu (no config file tweaking, no ndiswrapper crap).

    Nobody talked down to me or just sent me a link.

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