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Thread: Linux really needs some standardization!

  1. #1
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    Linux really needs some standardization!

    I think Linux developers should somehow come to conclusion about lots of things in making OS and applications. You can't always start new small communities for making your little ideas come true, it's just too complicated for relatively small group of developers to make something really good. Developing serious things takes a lot of time, and in needs a STABLE TEAM and MANAGEMENT and some kind of control. And it's also a RESPONSIBILITY to users, i mean releasing new versions, support, etc. That's also what soft developers are payed for. Some applications are not free, and they can't really be free if users need progress and support. They need to keep the team together, for example It's quite another matter that apps could cost not so much and soft developers shouldn't release new versions with a bunch of useless "make-marketing-director-happy" features.

    I use both Win and Linux, and i can say Linux much improved in a last few years. I remember installing Linux, say, four years ago, it was like "wow! Looks cool,.. aaand there's a lot of little games and some infinite packages on 9 CD's.. Sooo what can I do with it after playing games and looking how cool it looks? Err, where's my Photoshop, my Office, my mp3-players, video codecs and players, pretty instant messengers, image viewers, cool utilities etc. etc. etc. that i use every day?? And why the hell should i install apps in such a disguistind way?? And why doesn't an application ask me where i want to install it and doesn't even tell me where it installs by itself? "

    And then i installed Ubuntu a few weeks ago, and it's much better now. Now i have my video codecs and players (not really brilliant but finally useful ) and all needed hardware drivers and multilanguage support, and almost everything seems to "just work". There's a lot of really useful software, almost enough, but - almost. I think the only and the biggest problem still present is a kind of a mess with all those numerous distros, graphic desktop evironments, little similar programs etc. AND it still looks too customized and, well, cartoonish. Yes, i do like all those bright colours and shiny enormous icons and buttons - at first sight, but when it comes to work, you mention that it's all too messy, too colorful, and contains too much "visual trash". What for do i need a big "help" button in every window which i use everyday? I might need help first time i use it, but the next time it's just a waste of space! Why is OK button on the right of Cancel? Do i read from right to left? why there isn't often an "Apply" or "OK" or "Do that!" or something button, and only "Close?" is present? Finally, why not make buttons the same way in different apps? Developing interfaces IS NOT AN ARTWORK! I repeat, it not! It's developing of a MANAGEMENT TOOL first of all! So - it should be standarts and supervision by interface professionals, not that "i'll make this icon colorful and funky 'cause i like cartoons and big 'cause i'd like everyone to mention it!". Visit gnome-look.org - it's mostly like giving some red paint to children and leving them alone for a while! I've found less then ten really useable themes, among thousands!

    So the conclusion is - Linux is getting much better but it slill needs much more standartization and cooperation, and setting developers on the right track - by professionals in specific spheres. Where come standards, come serious applications too, look at what's going on on web

    And, finally, THANK YOU Canonical for Ubuntu, this forum and really good support for users. It's not like that trashy information sources on Linux i get used to see

  2. #2
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    Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon

    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Welcome to the forums!

    About your issues with standartisation, I do agree with you, but mainly where it comes to GTK/QT issues. For example, break out a GTK based player like Rhythmbox..Then break out a QT based player like Amarok. Since they use different widgets, they look completely different.

    However, that might be solved soon, hopefully. Now, regarding your problem with gnome-look, well that's not really our problem per se. Anyone can make a theme and post it on Gnome Look, so you're inevitably going to have to seperate the wheat from the chaff!

  3. #3
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    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Moved to Community Cafe, since this does not pertain to Gutsy development.
    Previously known as 23meg

  4. #4
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    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snif View Post
    why there isn't often an "Apply" or "OK" or "Do that!" or something button, and only "Close?" is present?
    http://developer.gnome.org/projects/...-instant-apply

    unfortunatly only gnome software follows the gnome HIG.

    if you use a more pure gnome desktop (use epiphany and abiword instead of firefox and openoffice), then you will find it more consistent

    i think KDE are working on a similar set of guidelines for KDE 4.

    for cross desktop stuff lots of work is being done by http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/

  5. #5
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    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snif
    What for do i need a big "help" button in every window which i use everyday? I might need help first time i use it, but the next time it's just a waste of space! Why is OK button on the right of Cancel? Do i read from right to left? why there isn't often an "Apply" or "OK" or "Do that!" or something button, and only "Close?" is present? Finally, why not make buttons the same way in different apps?
    In GNOME, there's a "standard" that provides developers with guidelines regarding those things called the GNOME Human Interface Guidelines; it should answer your questions. Most major applications follow it closely, and definitely all that are included by default in the desktop environment do; where they don't, it's most probably a valid bug.

    If you mix and match apps from different desktop environments, and/or use software that for some reason doesn't follow the HIG (or similar guidelines), it's inevitable that you'll get some non-standard behaviour and design.
    Last edited by 23meg; October 6th, 2007 at 11:09 PM.
    Previously known as 23meg

  6. #6
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    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Standardization is the end of progress just like Satisfaction is the end of desire.


    *oooohmmmm*

  7. #7
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    Ubuntu 9.04 Jaunty Jackalope

    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    the small groups making software are the soul of oss! its the way it works! its not about management, its about finding exactly the solution you want. either in programming your own or in browsing repos. everyone can use the code of these small projects for a bigger, more managed project if he likes....

    for example cd-burning: k3b uses a lot of small command line tools and combines them to a very nice looking frontend. thats the idea

  8. #8
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    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Quote Originally Posted by phen View Post
    the small groups making software are the soul of oss!
    OSS doesn't have a soul. Explain how standardization will hurt OSS progress.
    Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo e6600; ASUS P5N-E SLI; GeForce 7600GT; 2 GB DDR2 800MHz RAM
    Ubuntu Feisty 7.06 and Window XP

  9. #9
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    Ubuntu 10.10 Maverick Meerkat

    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    Quote Originally Posted by Snif View Post
    Err, where's my Photoshop, my Office, my mp3-players, video codecs and players, pretty instant messengers, image viewers, cool utilities etc. etc. etc. that i use every day??
    I did watch movies on Linux five years ago: I was preparing for TOEFL and I was watching a lot of movies in original language on my laptop.

    And why the hell should i install apps in such a disguistind way??
    I was installing applications the same way I'm doing now: apt-get

    And why doesn't an application ask me where i want to install it and doesn't even tell me where it installs by itself? "
    Because applications are put in standard directories the use doesn't need to know unless he wants to learn how the OS works.

    why there isn't often an "Apply" or "OK" or "Do that!" or something button, and only "Close?" is present?
    Because Gnome usually applies changes immediately

  10. #10
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    Re: Linux really needs some standartization!

    the small groups making software are the soul of oss!
    ... is a short and somewhat colorful way of saying that oss is a distributed software development merhod. It mainly consists of self-organising groups of programmers all over the world.
    What makes this possible is
    1- the internet, for global communication
    2- open source code, so people can see it, download it, work with it, and publish it without constraints
    3- standards such as rfc's, ISO standards, ... and guidlines such as the Gome usibility guidelines, and common 'programming on Unix" practise.

    It's different in concept from the "development needs a STABLE TEAM and MANAGEMENT" approach the OP promotes, but somehow still produces quality software. How that works is very well explained in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" - http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/ca...aar/index.html

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