Threats, and using the code of conduct in ways it was never intended imho

[Kilz]

Over the last day the has been a situation that I have done my best to see resolved. As it is now I am being threated with an infraction if I use the words lies or fud. As I understand it, those words are common, and are not against the rules.
FUD = Fear Uncertainty and Doubt, or using the 3 to influence someone into doing something. I do not like it when new users are given FUD. IMHO it is telling them a lie.
Background - I was in the 64bit section answering posts. I opened this thread. and answered it. Later a member of the new users team came in and posted fud.
The original poster did not ask what version they should run, they had come to the 64bit section and was interested in information about wubi. Me and a few others suggested that if they wanted to test Ubuntu that they might try a livecd.
A member of the new users team then posted fud on the topic. I asked madmetal to "Please do not come into the 64bit section spreading the "you should use the 32bit version" fud." trying to be nice, I even asked please. When he continued , I noticed he was a member of the beginners team so I went and asked that team, hoping for its leader to answer, if this was going to be the common practice of that team when dealing with new users. IMHO Spreading FUD to a new user should be against the COC.

Rather than say the FUD shouldn't have happened the focus of the discussion was focused me. How I am to heavy handed and that use of FUD and asking about a problem were against the COC according to bodhi.zazen. In fact he threatened me with the COC. .Which I pointed out to him does not say what he was suggesting. That I did what I thought the COC recommends.
When I asked him to look at it again and provide me with links to policy he said I was ranting.
Well bodhi.zazen in the end outlawed the use of the words lie and fud without dealing with the fact the whole thread was full of FUD.
The thread was closed, and since I started the thread I received notice from bodhi.zazen that it was locked. I wrote a pm back saying this.

I took a look at how the thread ended. I kind of figured it would get closed something like that. With someone arguing that there is no reason to run the 64bit version. From someone who probably runs the 32bit version. I think if you look at it you will see why some 64bit users are frustrated, Kingsley attitude is quite common outside of the 64bit section (looks like he is not on your team ). Deal with that for a year and you will know where we are coming from.

At which point bodhi.zazen took it as a chance to threaten me.

Kingsley is entitled to his opinion and you should learn to be more tolerant. There are down sides to running 64 bit versions of Ubutnu, and although you seem blind to them they still exit. I reviewed the information on the forums and easily found a number of downsides to the 64 bit version. You push your opinions as if you speak the "truth" and I find that annoying.

It is not as if you started a thread to help the beginners team, if you ask me you are trolling. Just look at the title, it has troll written all over it. And it is not as if you offered to help with the team, so you are stuck with the service you get from the beginners team.

You would do well to follow the advice you have been given by several members on the beginners team and learn to be less abrasive. You could be quite effective that way. As it is you loose your effectiveness because it takes a lot of maturity to look beyond your abrasiveness.

If you insult the beginners team I will give you an infraction. I do not like being heavy handed that way and will leave it as a warning to you this time.

Calling outdated information "FUD" or "lies" is inappropriate and goes against the ubuntu ethos. It is in my opinion a personal insult.

Please either learn to ignore such information or correct it is such a way that is less offensive. There are many ways to provide information without resorting to insults. If you are frustrated with the forums, give it a break and come back when you can post without violating the code of conduct.

I personally dont see the use of the words lies or FUD as insults, bodhi.zazen is threatening an infraction and admitting he is being heavy handed.

Is this the kind of person we want dealing with new users? One that threatens community members for use of the words FUD and lies?
Is he afraid that his team will spread FUD and lies and wants to stop the truth if they do?

Is this the attitude we want to put forth to new users , that if you speak a little different, not swearing or attacking, but if you dont have a fake smile in your voice we will attack you? We will say the COC says something it doesn't and make up new rules on the fly to outlaw common terms? Come on, the word FUD?

My history speaks for itself. I hate lies and untruth. Its sin. I cant just let it happen to anyone, but especially to new users. Neither should anyone else. This is the people we have selected to meet new users? This is the person who is going to give the first impression?

So, do I now have to stop using the word fud and lie? If I do what words is bodhi.zazen going to outlaw next?

[KiwiNZ]

Kils

Lets take the heat out of the situation .Lets all take a breather.

Can an old hopefully wise gent give you some advise. Never post at the heat of the moment , take a break , think , then post . Instant messaging can bring instant strife.

Calling some one lier is impolite and insulting , at least where I live it is.
If you dont like what someone is posting , report it and let the staff deal with it.

[Kilz]

Kils

Lets take the heat out of the situation .Lets all take a breather.

Can an old hopefully wise gent give you some advise. Never post at the heat of the moment , take a break , think , then post . Instant messaging can bring instant strife.

Calling some one lier is impolite and insulting , at least where I live it is.
If you dont like what someone is posting , report it and let the staff deal with it.

For the most part I do. I use the report post button a lot. But misinformation imho wasnt a breaking of the rules. So its not something I thought needed reporting. I just asked madmetal to please not spread the Fear Uncertainty and Doubt
.I honestly thought discussing it would stop more Fear Uncertainty and Doubt from rearing its head. After all these are the people dealing with newbies. If there is anyone that Fear Uncertainty and Doubt. works well on its newbies.
But bodhi.zazen is a little heavy handed. This is the person who is in charge of dealing with new users? He twisted the code of conduct. He is threatening me over use of common terms.
I cant let that slide, if I did and used the word FUD in a topic with someone who is part of his team he might do something that I would not like..
I am not afraid of taking this further. Threatening me as he did is abuse of power. He did it to try and make me back down. But Im not backing down from reporting it. Just as you suggested, instead of letting this escalate, Im reporting it. If it isnt resolved to the point I dont have to worry about him abusing his power on these forums I will take it to the next level.
I have been on the forums a long time, and tried to do my best to help people. The mods on the forums have always been the best people. I trust those of you I have dealt with in the past. This forum and Ubuntu have been my home online. It feels like I have a knife in my back from bodhi.zazen.
But it isnt just me, what also worries me is the new users, the people who are just starting. They will be dealing with that "team". With a leader that twists the rules.

[KiwiNZ]

After looking at this, bodhi.zazen has not acted outside the authority or the Code of Conduct. It is appropriate to issue warnings and I believe that bodhi.zazen has acted fair in giving a warning before an infraction was issued.

Calling other members liars is not good and should not be done. There is alternatives you can do , as I mentioned earlier.

You are a member of long standing and a good contributor to these forums , I would not like to see this incident change that . I believe this is more a matter of interpretation.

[Kilz]

After looking at this, bodhi.zazen has not acted outside the authority or the Code of Conduct. It is appropriate to issue warnings and I believe that bodhi.zazen has acted fair in giving a warning before an infraction was issued.

Calling other members liars is not good and should not be done. There is alternatives you can do , as I mentioned earlier.

You are a member of long standing and a good contributor to these forums , I would not like to see this incident change that . I believe this is more a matter of interpretation.

Asking someone not to spread lies is not the same as calling them a liar imho. He didnt say I called the person a liar, but that outdated information should not be called a lie. In the discussion I gave a link to a post that proved that the person knew better. So in fact it wasnt just information they didnt know was wrong, but a delebrate untruth.
But why am I not surprised that on a forum where you can call down the wrath of god, you cant use the word liar or lie? How do you reconcile that?
Secondly, Dose he have the power to hand out infractions for the use of the word FUD? The word FUD is not against the rules as far as I know. I fully believe that bodhi.zazen overstepped his authority to outlaw a word that is not against the rules. He threatened to give me an infraction for use of the word FUD. Stating more than once that Word Fud shouldn't be used and in the last link threatening infractions for its use in a post on the forum.

[Kilz]

After looking at this, bodhi.zazen has not acted outside the authority or the Code of Conduct. It is appropriate to issue warnings and I believe that bodhi.zazen has acted fair in giving a warning before an infraction was issued.

Calling other members liars is not good and should not be done. There is alternatives you can do , as I mentioned earlier.

You are a member of long standing and a good contributor to these forums , I would not like to see this incident change that . I believe this is more a matter of interpretation.

After reading your post again a question arises. Are forum moderators supposed to follow a set of rules and issue infractions if those rules are broke, or are they supposed to make up rules as they go and when they find something they personaly dont like or personally take offense with?

[jdong]

(I'll butt in as KiwiNZ is away...)

There are general guidelines to what staff members are supposed to be doing (they are in the forum policies) but ultimately it's up to the discretion of the staff member handling the incident what action to take, if any. We trust that they make the right decisions and whenever a complaint comes up regarding it (such as this one), we review it.

[Kilz]

(I'll butt in as KiwiNZ is away...)

There are general guidelines to what staff members are supposed to be doing (they are in the forum policies) but ultimately it's up to the discretion of the staff member handling the incident what action to take, if any. We trust that they make the right decisions and whenever a complaint comes up regarding it (such as this one), we review it.

Are you saying that banning the words lies and fud and threatening infractions are consistent with those guidelines?

[Kilz]

Are you saying that banning the words lies and fud and threatening infractions are consistent with those guidelines?

Sorry but I cant edit the abouve, it should be "threatening infractions for their use is consistent".

[matthew]

Kiwi is out for a while and the rest of us weren't following this closely because he was dealing with it.

I'm online at the moment with a little free time. Give me a few minutes (or a little more, maybe) and I'll investigate all the posts you mention and see what is going on.

I'll give you an answer as soon as I can.