The "Bye, Ubuntu" thread

[blackant]

Maybe you can try to get a dual boot first.
Use windows as your main, then learn linux along the way.

Anyway, all the best with windows.

[Arktis]

What isn't fun is trouble with trying to get something like a currently unsupported wireless card to work when you've got no experience with the command line. This user came up against that wall and it probably frustrated him to no end. I remember that feeling.

[XQC]

So basically you are saying that for Linux to grow it should be a bad Windows imitation?

So basically you define "Hardware Support" as a bad Windows imitation?

Frankly, I can't say anything about the programs install issue because it IS easier than Windows (IF it is in any repo) but lacking hardware support, especially for WLAN and WPA, is a valid issue. If it's Ubuntu's fault or not doesn't unfortunately interest the casual PC-User.

[BSDFreak]

So basically you define "Hardware Support" as a bad Windows imitation?

I think this is the third time this happens today, read what i responded to.

Frankly, I can't say anything about the programs install issue because it IS easier than Windows (IF it is in any repo) but lacking hardware support, especially for WLAN and WPA, is a valid issue. If it's Ubuntu's fault or not doesn't unfortunately interest the casual PC-User.

Never said it isn't, the solution is to buy hw that you know will work with Linux (you wouldn't be surprised if a Sparc station or a Mac didn't work at all with Windows because you wouldn't buy that hardware if you were going to run Windows).

[Arktis]

you wouldn't be surprised if a Sparc station or a Mac didn't work at all with Windows because you wouldn't buy that hardware if you were going to run Windows.

Well, this is kind of a flawed example. Linux runs on a variety of architectures, so hardware support is a bigger deal. Anyways, migraters/dual booters should ideally have their current hardware working OoTB. If they run into a wall like this and have no CLI skills or general understanding and familiarity yet, it's definately going to deter them. Having OoTB functionality for certain hardware is not always a reality for a variety of reasons which aren't the fault of Linux, but it's still a problem nonetheless. But on the other side of the same token, I can remember lots of personal experience with problems getting people's hardware to run under Windows, too. Let's not forget that.

[BSDFreak]

Well, this is kind of a flawed example. Linux runs on a variety of architectures, so hardware support is a bigger deal. Anyways, migraters/dual booters should ideally have their current hardware working OoTB. If they run into a wall like this and have no CLI skills or general understanding and familiarity yet, it's definately going to deter them. Having OoTB functionality for certain hardware is not always a reality for a variety of reasons which aren't the fault of Linux, but it's still a problem nonetheless.

Actually it isn't a flawed example, you shouldn't buy hardware that doesn't work with the OS you intend to run it on, you don't buy a Sparc station if you are going to run Windows and you don't buy an unsupported WiFi adapter if you are going to run Linux, simple as that.

If running into a wall like this deters them then perhaps they shouldn't be running Linux in the first place, realize that i don't care if they are running Linux or Windows, Linux isn't for everyone, there is a choice to run another OS instead and everyone is welcome to make that choice, i really couldn't care less.

Having ootb functionality for "certain" hardware is rarely a reality for ANY OS but by checking if it's supported beforehand you eliminate the chance that it isn't.

[Arktis]

Yes, if I am building a Linux box, I should be certain to get 100% Linux compatible hardware. But if I am switching/dual booting with my current hardware over from Windows to give Linux a try, that's a different story. That describes most everyone new to Linux. Note that these are the very people I am talking about.

Edit: Oh, and note that I said "ideally", please.

[BSDFreak]

Yes, if I am building a Linux box, I should be certain to get 100% Linux compatible hardware. But if I am switching my current hardware over from Windows to give Linux a try, that's a different story. That describes most everyone new to Linux.

And if i'm switching to XP i'll can't use a K6-III 550 (it's fast enough but XP won't install with anything less than PII) but i can run Ubuntu just fine on that box.

There is a problem with certain hardware on Linux, there is a problem with certain hardware on every OS, it's not Linux specific but nobody complains about Windows not running their hardware.

I'd be interested to know what wifi adapter this guy was running that he couldn't get to work.

[Arktis]

And if i'm switching to XP i'll can't use a K6-III 550 (it's fast enough but XP won't install with anything less than PII) but i can run Ubuntu just fine on that box.

So windows suffers from an artificially created perpetual hardware upgrade cycle while Linux does not. And? Sorry I don't see your point there...

There is a problem with certain hardware on Linux, there is a problem with certain hardware on every OS

Yes I've already mentioned something to this effect. I think you're way too agro. If I say I understand someone else's frustration and that the situation is less than ideal, acknowledge that it's not Linux's fault and note that Windows has these issue too, would you say there's something wrong with that? No, right? Well that's good because that's just what I have been doing in this thread.

Hardware support is an issue no matter how you want to explain it, though. There's a lot of compatible hardware still out there that Linux can't use yet, and it should be able to use it. Yes, as I have said already, this isn't Linux's fault.

The guy who started this thread was under the impression he could get wireless to work anyways. He found it frustrating and unfamiliar, and so decided to give up. I can remember the feeling, can't you? It was his choice to abandon Linux altogether even if you or I disagree. Can't you at least acknowledge that the learning curve coupled with hardware issues can be a problem, though? We all had it. You're going to pretend it doesn't exist?

[Viro]

you should just give synaptic a shot it doesn't get much easier than that, and what wireless card do you have? 80% of them work out of the box (the ones that don't are usally the cheap crappy ones)

I love these broad sweeping statements, that 80% work out of the box and if it don't well, it was crappy to begin with. I have had no small amount of trouble with getting my D-Link DWL-122 network adapter to work eventhough it's supposed to work out of the box. It wasn't cheap. And it sure isn't crappy.

Look at the list of wireless network adapters supported by Ubuntu and realize that there are many more wireless network adapters out there that aren't supported. Ubuntu is great but it still has a long way to go as far as wireless network adapters are concerned.