For everyone moaning about PHP

[hagen00]

qcodo.com

Yes, this is the answer...

[Mirrorball]

There are several answers actually:
http://framework.zend.com/
http://codeigniter.com/
http://www.cakephp.com.br/
http://www.symfony-project.com/
http://www.pradosoft.com/

[durus]

What do you think about Zend framework ? I want to start use a framework but can't chose witch to use, do you think that Zend framework will be like a standard framework for php as it is Zend that holds that project?

[Mirrorball]

Zend Framework is very good, but slow. I only wish it were faster.

[hagen00]

The other frameworks are all blown out of the water by Qcodo in my opinion. CodeIgniter is quite nice and clean, but you still have to do all the work yourself. Cake is bloated and like many of the other frameworks, it does all its stuff at runtime (sorry for the poor technical language, but this is how I understand it). Qcodo does code generation, meaning that there are no performance issues, because run time stuff is minimzed.

Qcodo's code generation is amazing - so much of what you need is auto generated for you based on your data model in a very clean way.

I've looked at a lot of frameworks (not in too much detail) but the one that blew me away was Qcodo.

[hagen00]

http://www.qcodo.com/documentation/article.php/6

This explains it...

[barmazal]

everyone moaning PHP is not MVC language when language cannot be MVC so you should speak about frameworks and not PHP itself since all of these languages are C libraries.

anyway, after taking a brief look on all these frameworks i would go for Zend since big company+PHP inventors behind the product. Prado was existing since it looks exactly as .NET.


my bet would be modX, it's half framework half CMS ... makes job easy for designers and webmasters while gives certain freedom for developers

[mech7]

The other frameworks are all blown out of the water by Qcodo in my opinion. CodeIgniter is quite nice and clean, but you still have to do all the work yourself. Cake is bloated and like many of the other frameworks, it does all its stuff at runtime (sorry for the poor technical language, but this is how I understand it). Qcodo does code generation, meaning that there are no performance issues, because run time stuff is minimzed.

Qcodo's code generation is amazing - so much of what you need is auto generated for you based on your data model in a very clean way.

I've looked at a lot of frameworks (not in too much detail) but the one that blew me away was Qcodo.

I am not sure what you mean by code generation but if it is the same as scaffolding then cake-php can do this too.. You can bake the scaffolding code to get a starting point I am trying out Zend Framework now but so far i like Cake better.

[pmasiar]

everyone moaning PHP is not MVC language when language cannot be MVC so you should speak about frameworks and not PHP itself since all of these languages are C libraries.

Of course no language is MVC by itself. But it makes difference *how* are those libraries glued together, how readable is the resulting code. Even if two languages are Turing-complete, it does not mean usability of the code is the same - far from that.

PHP was good option for beginners couple years ago before Rails and Django and TurboGears. Especially Python is more "universal" language than PHP, once learned it can be used way beyond web applications.

Obviously PHP is still hugely popular, and will remain so for some time, no doubts. But if newbie can with the little bit more intellectual efforts (for creating web pages) learn Python instead of PHP, I would suggest to give preference to Python based on wider usability of the language. Unless, of course, said beginner wants to participate in a web project which is written in PHP - then the choice is obvious.

If, on the other side, beginner wants to participate in OLPC or Ubuntu, Python is obviously better choice, right?

Each language is best tool in some niche. Some niches expand, others shrink - that's life, and we need to be prepared for change.

[barmazal]

you said Python and Ruby are dynamic MVC languages!

PHP was good for beginners? PHP will remain web standard for a while with all due respect to ROR, Turbo Gears and Django propaganda there are no real time proof to their superiority, no large amount of huge sites powered by those, not sure what Google and NASA do using Python but it's written on Python's website.

Just to compare Joomla is one of PHP CMSes while it has same amount of users as Python website. I won't got to php.net coz it's not fair.

all these cross platform stuff doesn't work on me, since 98% of world still using Windows PC and very small amount of MACS. The only importance Linux currently has it hosting Apache+PHP+mySQL websites when again PHP is server side language.

Without PHP 50% of Linux users will turn to Windows, since MAIN LINUX CUSTOMERS ARE HOSTING COMPANIES. Can you say the same about Python? I would assure you that much more would prefer LAMP with PHP over Python preinstalled on any Linux.

If you ask me Python users are just those who never achieved noting in PHP or ASP or Java and got frustrated and turned to yet another language. coz again THERE ARE PHP FRAMEWORKS WITH MVC MODEL and even some of these not require a line of php code just using it's API.

good luck promoting Python, hopefully you will find not guy like me who uses .NET but real PHP user who can smash Python once for all.