View Poll Results: What does "ready for the desktop" mean to you?

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  • Any person can install it on any computer without any problems

    1,609 34.95%
  • Anyone can use it once it's already been installed and configured

    2,414 52.43%
  • Every commercial application works on it

    453 9.84%
  • Nothing--it's a nonsensical term

    704 15.29%
  • It automatically detects most hardware without the need to hunt down drivers

    2,236 48.57%
  • It comes preinstalled on computers so novice users don't have to install it

    889 19.31%
  • It's suitable to the needs of most beginner users but not necessarily to most intermediate ones

    568 12.34%
  • Windows and nothing else... not even Mac OS X

    46 1.00%
  • Works on my desktop

    1,199 26.04%
  • Other (please explain)

    166 3.61%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Results 981 to 990 of 9520

Thread: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

  1. #981
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    11
    Distro
    Ubuntu Breezy 5.10

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by 23meg
    I'm sorry that you're having problems and that I'm unable to help, and I understand your frustration, but your view is too self centric. You put whether or not you can get your hardware and proprietary software running on Ubuntu as your only criteria for whether Linux is "ready for the desktop" or not.
    WP problems aside, there is no such thing as non-proprietary hardware. The Forum is full of people with hardware compatibility problems that raise serious questions about Linux's suitability. Using the term self-centric is a bit of an ad hominem attack wouldn't you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by 23meg
    BTW, check out this FAQ if you haven't: http://linuxmafia.com/wpfaq/
    Yes, that is one of the sites I found information on that made me feel WP would work before I got it and tried installing it.

  2. #982
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Beans
    6,040

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. E
    there is no such thing as non-proprietary hardware.
    There is. Many companies open their hardware specs, so that people can write open source drivers for them. But the majority don't. This can change, if Linux gets adopted more and if users put enough pressure on the companies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. E
    The Forum is full of people with hardware compatibility problems that raise serious questions about Linux's suitability.
    I'm not ignoring the problems; what I mean is that the source of those hardware problems is the fact that the specs aren't opened and drivers aren't provided for a lot of hardware. Most of it isn't Linux's fault but that of the companies. If you want this to change, there are things you can do:

    - Make your hardware vendor know that you want working Linux drivers / open specs.

    - Use Linux, encourage others to use it, get organized, spread the love, so that adoption will get faster and companies start caring more.

    - Do research before buying hardware and prefer vendors who provide Linux drivers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. E
    Using the term self-centric is a bit of an ad hominem attack wouldn't you agree?
    I disagree; I do find your initial view of the situation self centric and I've stated it in a reasonable manner. "Self-centric" isn't an offensive term per se, and I haven't used it in an offensive context.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Hominem
    Last edited by 23meg; December 28th, 2005 at 07:55 AM.
    Previously known as 23meg

  3. #983
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    11
    Distro
    Ubuntu Breezy 5.10

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by 23meg
    There is. Many companies open their hardware specs, so that people can write open source drivers for them. But the majority don't. This can change, if Linux gets adopted more and if users put enough pressure on the companies.
    I'm not ignoring the problems; what I mean is that the source of those hardware problems is the fact that the specs aren't opened and drivers aren't provided by a lot of hardware. Most of it isn't Linux's fault but that of the companies.
    I agree that the reason Linux isn't ready for the desktop is that companies don't open their specs and Linux isn't that common yet. I have no doubt that the Linux developers would immediately make all hardware compatible if they were able to. However, the hardware/software incompatibility problems in my view are still the major issue that do make it unsuitable for most people's desktops.

  4. #984
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    1,139
    Distro
    Kubuntu 16.04 Xenial Xerus

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. E
    I am seriously considering bagging the whole Ubuntu thing and go back to Windows and live with the viruses, having to reinstall it every 6 months, etc. At least I can get my crucial programs and hardware up and running!!

    Linux has always been ready for the desktop for the computer saavy. Ubuntu appeared to make it ready for someone like me who doesn't mind spending some time figuring things out. My experience to date clearly demonstrates that Linux is still for computer wizzes not the average Joe.
    I'm sorry to hear of the problems with WP. I'm no Linux expert, and have only just installed Ubuntu, but it would appear unwise to categorise Linux generically, simply because of problems with one distribution.

    There are many 'Linux desktops', see http://distrowatch.com/

    Oygle

  5. #985
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Beans
    149

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by emperor
    There is also some work in the oo community to implement the "reveal codes" feature. For example there are some reveal code macros here:
    Awesome. No matter what anyone says, I'll always have a soft spot for "reveal codes". It can really help resolve what are otherwise intractable formatting problems.

    When I first went out on my own and opened my own office, I too wanted to use weordperfect. I even spent $80 on Corel Linux with Corel Wordperfect -- it's gathering dust somewhere -- I can't recall why I didn't like Corel Linux anymore but I didn't like it. And WP seemed buggy if I recall, but I was comparing it to my WP on DOS days.

  6. #986
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Beans
    149

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. E
    I agree that the reason Linux isn't ready for the desktop is that companies don't open their specs and Linux isn't that common yet. I have no doubt that the Linux developers would immediately make all hardware compatible if they were able to. However, the hardware/software incompatibility problems in my view are still the major issue that do make it unsuitable for most people's desktops.
    I've run my office on linux for three years. I use it at home too. I haven't had a windows machine for years. But the first couple years of real usage (my dual boot stage) were rough, not just because I had to relearn everything, but linux distros were much rougher back then.

    For example, right now you can use k3b for CD burning and it's a very intuitive gui. I had to cut my teeth on the command line for that. I learned a lot of stuff the hard way. Nowadays, it seems like I don't even have to do anything to have a flawless system running. Just pop in a CD, fire up synaptic and pow -- it all works.

    To people who put in their time when linux was hard with a capital "H", current distros seem like a no-brainer. We see a post like yours and roll our eyes thinking "how much easier can it actually be?" I'd say that's mostly our problem and something we should try to be better about. More importantly, we've learned to take the easy road too. Buying a video card? Get nVidia and don't worry. Want a printer? Check the compatability list: http://www.linuxprinting.org/ Heck, I've stood in stores googling products (e.g.: "linux <distro_name> <product name>"). I've built somekind of paranormal hardware sense as well, it's almost like I can look at a box in the store and just feel whether it's compatible or not. You get good w/ hardware eventually. Last, we've accepted that some things aren't going to run on linux without headaches or even at all. We accept it.

    But acceptance is something you have to do with every OS. I can tell you right now that until Apple puts middle-click-paste, sloppy mouse focus (scroll background w/o losing foreground), and virtual desktops into OSX, I won't consider it user friendly. Period. End of Story. But that's my bias. I can accept the fact I won't be playing encrypted WMV files anytime soon on Linux, but in important respects, it beats the tar out of Windows or OSX.
    Last edited by ninotob; December 28th, 2005 at 08:21 AM.

  7. #987
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Miami, FL
    Beans
    39
    Distro
    Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    I will quote someone else that I know has decades of experience for my reasons why I agree with the topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azure Chicken
    duckilama wrote:
    It's probably the most misused "thing" in computing. It's great for servers, firewalls, proxies, embedded systems, and plenty of other stuff that a day-to-day _user_ will never see. For a general use PC, it blows. It's also great for the following people types: tinkerers, programmers, scripters, network/system admins, scientific researchers, and, primarily, masochists.
    This is quite accurate, but only if you've used MacOSX and know what desktop UNIX is supposed to be like. Ubuntu Linux is maybe 75-80% of the way to where OSX is today. Close, and very impressive for Linux, and impressive enough for me to allocate a 30gb slice on my new drive for, but significantly less impressive than OSX.

    People who tell you that Linux OSes are ready for desktop use, and you are not a deep geek willing to sacrifice ease of use are:
    a) lying to you
    b) have seriously drunk the koolaid
    c) offering free tech support for the myriad of problems you will have

    Linux requires a serious amount of knowledge and investment in learning - even Redhat and Mandrake and SuSE, for no appreciable gain.

  8. #988
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    A Brit in Lezardrieux, Fr
    Beans
    1,595
    Distro
    Ubuntu 10.04 Lucid Lynx

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    I have to side with the OP on this one - but perhaps not for the reasons that you all might think. I am an experience computer user and have used Ubuntu (on 6 computers networked together) for about 12 months. No, I'm not an expert but I am not stupid either.

    Dr E has had several threads running in this forum. I and others have tried to help him but we have been unsuccessul. So Dr E has a valid viewpoint - Ubuntu is not ready for his Desktop. The problems were not entirely unexpected (there is a warning against the use of Lexmark printers in a sticky thread at the head of this forum) but Ubuntu has failed from Dr E's perspective. Of course that is not Ubuntu's fault - we can blame the manufacturer for not providing support. But we cannot reasonably expect users to buy a particular set of hardware (especially when it runs under another OS) in order for him to run our favourite distro. We must learn simply to accept the fact that Ubuntu is not perfect.

    Your offers to help to overcome Dr E's problems are admirable and welcome. But I think Dr E would have felt better had they been in response to his original pleas rather than in defence of Ubuntu. He has asked for help and some of us have tried to assist him. Those of you reading who know how to solve his Lexmark printer problem would have been welcomed by both the OP and myself as I rapidly ran out of helpful advice for him. However, this is partly Dr E's own fault - in his frustration during the last 48 hours he has resorted to private messages to me. I have been happy to try to help him. But it has meant that, in the last stages of this endeavour, many of you will have not been able to read about the problems and sense his growing frustration. But in the weeks preceding this final phase your help, if you know the solution to his problems, would have been invaluable.

    Dr E has made a valid point but I feel that many of the responses have been rather defensive. They also each make a valid point but, nevertheless, many contribute nothing to helping Dr E move forward. Some of us are guilty of Ubuntu evangalism. I'm sorry, Ubuntu is my favourite distro but it is not perfect and does not provide the solution to Dr E's problems, or at least not in a way that the average user can take advantage of it. But we in this community must be prepared to take valid criticism on the chin. Dr E is correct in his perception of Ubuntu with his particular mix of hardware. We must live with it.

    I wish Dr E success in the future. I also enjoy the support that I have received from this forum and acknowledge the contribution that each and everyone of you make. I'm here to stay.

    EDIT: As I posted there appeared to be a wind change of opinion in the immediately preceding responses. However, I'm sure that some of you will, for whatever reason you feel justifies it, be smarting at some of my comments. Sorry. But flame away - I'm leaving on 2 weeks holiday! Back in mid-January when I will read this thread again!
    Last edited by bscbrit; December 28th, 2005 at 08:54 AM.
    When someone says 'I cannot do this in Linux, the limitation is not in the software, but simply in their knowledge.'
    Linux User - 380191

  9. #989
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu Karmic Koala (testing)

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. E
    (The reader is cautioned. I am officially irate.)

    I came to Ubuntu with a very open mind, having been disgrunted with Windows, and not being afraid to use the command line or search for instructions online. At first things looked great; the installer and partitioner worked very well. The browser and e-mail worked without much configuration. I figured out how to manage files, mount disks, intall programs I use quite a bit, and people on Ubuntu Forums were very helpful.

    PROBLEM 1: My printer was recognized by Ubuntu after installation but the driver didn't work. (You may search this forum for my pleas for help.) I found drivers online, but the installation instructions referred to things that don't exist in Ubuntu. One helpful penguinist suggested that the directions were referring to a Foomatic installation. Finally, it looked like I had the answer I needed, so I installed Foomatic only to have it not recognize my password even after a brand new installation. So foomatic has bugs which keeps me from getting my printer working.

    PROBLEM 2: You need to realize that I write for a living and need a printer and word processor, more specifically I need WordPerfect. Sorry, nothing beats it.
    Before deciding on Linux I found out about WP version 8 for Linux, bought a copy, and followed the instructions online for installation (jamesthornton.com/linux/FAQ/WordPerfect-Linux-FAQ/nondownloadwp8.html).

    The instructions looked looked self-explanatory. Then I entered dependency hell. During WP installation I was told I needed a slew of other packages before I could install WP. My blood pressure had still not risen, so still undaunted I tried the Synaptic Package Manager to install the files required by WP (libc5, xlib6g, etc.). However, libc5 indicated that I needed to uninstall WP in order to install libc5, yet when I tried this I was told there was a broken file and that I needed to use the broken package filter tool. At this point my stomach began to churn, especially since my search through every Ubuntu menu for such a tool came up empty.

    A posting to this forum states that sudo apt-get -f install ought to take care of the broken file, so it there appeared to be a glimmer of hope after all. However, running this command gives its own %*&# error message:

    E: The package wp-full needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it.

    Well, why not? It's sitting in the same @*&$ place it's always been and supposedly was never installed to begin with! From what I can tell this completes the circle; I can't install WP because of problems X and Y which themselves can't be resolved without installing WP!

    At this point, I feel lucky that I am not a dog owner or I may have had the Humane Society knocking on my door. I am seriously considering bagging the whole Ubuntu thing and go back to Windows and live with the viruses, having to reinstall it every 6 months, etc. At least I can get my crucial programs and hardware up and running!!

    Linux has always been ready for the desktop for the computer saavy. Ubuntu appeared to make it ready for someone like me who doesn't mind spending some time figuring things out. My experience to date clearly demonstrates that Linux is still for computer wizzes not the average Joe.
    First of the topic is wrong, it should read "my" (your desktop). Ubuntu is more than ready for my desktop and laptop (and we know this doesn't imply everyone on earth).

    Next, WordPerfect, linux binary compatibility is not like that of windows... If you are unwilling to use clones, there is a way to run your window's version of WordPerfect. Your options include using wine or something like qemu.
    For wine, http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?appId=530
    Outlook doesn't seem to hot, but wine has gone beta recently, instructions to get the latest for ubuntu here: http://www.winehq.org/site/download-deb

    As for the printer, get a new one or write the manufacturer. Vote with your wallet.

    Hope this helps you. If not stick with windows and try again when the next Ubuntu release is available.

    Good luck!
    The idea of copyright did not exist in ancient times, when authors frequently copied other authors at length in works of non-fiction. This practice was useful, and is the only way many authors' works have survived even in part. -- Richard Stallman

  10. #990
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    in the Dutch Mountains
    Beans
    1,768
    Distro
    Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon

    Re: Linux is NOT ready for the desktop!!! Sorry folks.

    With respect.
    Linux,Ubuntu in this case, is imo all about flexebility.
    Getting any OS to work fully to your needs is a no go.
    Try "whatever" and you will find somethings you dont like.
    When however encounterd openminded with the capebillity
    to accept somethings just do not work "out of the box"
    Ubuntu is close to Windows and a very userfriendly distro.
    But there will never be a "Wibuntu" forget about it and even
    then it would not be perfect.
    Once you're over the hill
    you're gonna pick up speed

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