Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

[lancest]

Hey -Windows is not for everybody! If you want a fast, safe and easy software system go back to your Linux. You deserve it. Go cry to $MS and see if they care. ha ha

[jso2897]

Part of the problem I believe, has to do with literacy. I have no computer smarts (and not too many brains period) - but I am old, and was schooled at a time when literacy and good reading comprehension were literally beaten into one. And the ability to read, understand, and follow written instructions is crucial in learning from the Linux community.
While you can do a great deal more with Linux, it's not like OSX or Windows, where the few things you can do are laid out for you in little pictures, like the cash registers at McDonalds that have little pictures of hamburgers on them.
When I read some of the negative posters here, and see their level of grammar, spelling, vocabulary and syntax, it amazes me that they ever manged to get Ubuntu loaded onto their machine to begin with.
What really worries me is what's going to happen if everything goes blooey one of these days and we have to build civilization all over again. How are a bunch of illiterate and semi-literate people going to be able to do it? Or will we just sink back into the stone age?
Oh well. There's probably some re-runs of American Idol on.

[HermanAB]

Hmm, people who want a completely pointyclicky system, should use Mandriva, not Ubuntu. The Ubuntu wizards will eventually get there, but at the moment there still is a little bit of Bash-ing to do.

[uputer]

I would like to know why some linux users are so unfriendly with people who criticize it?

I know I won't get an answer but I am curious why it's such a taboo thing to criticize both 1) Linux and 2) the respective distro of the related forum

I've noticed this countless times. No one will change my mind in the idea that Linux is not user-friendly. You need to spend way more time at it than *******. Linux is NOT ready for the desktop. The idea that it is ready is a perspective from a 'computer geek's p.o.v. aka someone who has spent countless hours tweaking, has a computer (programming) background or is just adept at utilizing computer stuff. It is time-consuming. I dislike Windows and the MSoft corp. and don't get me started. I could probably 'go there' and bash it without getting warnings but it's a different criticism. I know Ubuntu/Kubuntu and all other Linux distros are very useful and the fact that it's opensource, is great. But, why do so many people insist on how user-friendly it is? If it was, MS would be dead right now. They would be gone. Finito.

[rsambuca]

uputer, I think the biggest difference is that Windows is pre-installed for probably 95% of computer users. Until recently, linux was not. I have installed ubuntu on my mother's computer, it works perfectly and she is 100% happy with it. Could she have installed it herself? I can honestly say absolutely not (I had to try different boot options just to rev up the CD!).

The last time I was there I noticed that she had actually installed a couple of programs herself, without even checking with me first! OK, they were just from the 'add/remove programs', but hey, it's a start.

I fully believe that ubuntu IS ready for the desktop, if somebody does the installation. Windows is no different in that regard, and by my experience, is actually much more difficult to install than ubuntu.

[aysiu]

I would like to know why some linux users are so unfriendly with people who criticize it?

They aren't. Take a look at the Gutsy Idea Pool subforum. It's full of criticisms from many of these same Linux users you think are unfriendly to those who criticize.

No one will change my mind in the idea that Linux is not user-friendly.

And therein lies the problem. It's not that you criticize Linux. It's that you generalize based on your experience. Your experience is valid, but it is only your experience. You had a tough time, and I'm sorry about that, but not everyone has a tough time with Linux, and not everyone has an easy time with Windows.

And many of the criticisms are unfair. For example, people will often compare a preinstalled Windows to a self-installed Linux. How is that fair? Seriously. Or people will compare "intuitiveness" based on twenty years of Windows experience and two weeks of Linux experience. How is that fair? For more details, read https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CriticismFAQ

The idea that it is ready is a perspective from a 'computer geek's p.o.v. aka someone who has spent countless hours tweaking, has a computer (programming) background or is just adept at utilizing computer stuff.

On what basis are you saying that? I don't fall into that category, and a lot of other users who do not either. Those are your own baseless assumptions.

You will also tend to find that those who think they are "criticizing Linux" are actually not doing anything practical to improve Linux. For more details, read What's better than whining on the forums? Making a difference.

[uputer]

They aren't. Take a look at the Gutsy Idea Pool subforum. It's full of criticisms from many of these same Linux users you think are unfriendly to those who criticize.

I'm talking more about the seemingly emotional connection to a particular distro. You don't really notice too much connection to a Windows OS. One can bash ******* and someone might defend it but I don't think it's as emotional.

And therein lies the problem. It's not that you criticize Linux. It's that you generalize based on your experience. Your experience is valid, but it is only your experience. You had a tough time, and I'm sorry about that, but not everyone has a tough time with Linux, and not everyone has an easy time with Windows.

I see your point but it's not entirely accurate. Read the forums? Read forums in other distro sites? There will be a population of posters who are very frustrated and can't get their particular task/program/operation to work. Many people have trouble with Windows and I think these same people wouldn't give two glances towards Linux. It is not restricted or limited to only my experience. It might be my experience but it's also safe and rational speculation, I think.

And many of the criticisms are unfair. For example, people will often compare a preinstalled Windows to a self-installed Linux. How is that fair? Seriously. Or people will compare "intuitiveness" based on twenty years of Windows experience and two weeks of Linux experience. How is that fair? On what basis are you saying that? I don't fall into that category, and a lot of other users who do not either. Those are your own baseless assumptions.

How is it fair? Windows was designed that way and some of the reasons that it's a poor OS is coincidentally which makes it 'easier' in comparison to Linux. Although, there are many similarities when you compare the GUI methods, the fact that much of Linux is oriented towards the Command Line and gives the user the option to 'see what's going on' is also a weakness in many ways.

Even if you have problems with *******, you can reinstall yourself. There are problems with drivers and HDD stuff but there are enough people who have explained solutions online. You don't have to learn a command line or 'dependencies' or other requirements to get it installed. The learning curve is different. When Linux becomes more popular or more people become disillusioned and frustrated with the closed source, imperialist culture policy and ways of MS, people may put more time and effort into learning Linux. Maybe but then again, people might not be prepared to invest that time. They might be willing to use a dumbed-down GUI-style Linux distro but then we're having a different discussion, aren't we?

I'm talking about the current state of Linux.

You will also tend to find that those who think they are "criticizing Linux" are actually not doing anything practical to improve Linux.

People who report bugs or email suggestions, maybe they're helping? I don't know. I know I have seen 'bugs' or flaws not fixed. Again, many developers are not overly concerned with complaints or at least that is my impression. It is free/open source and while they would like it to 'work well,' complaints don't seem to make much difference. I could be wrong and I hope I am, though. They probably even get a lot of complaints. If someone welcomes or wants my complaints, I'll happily offer them. It would be good if I can contribute to any improvements or if anyone welcomes my suggestions.

[rsambuca]

Even if you have problems with *******, you can reinstall yourself. There are problems with drivers and HDD stuff but there are enough people who have explained solutions online. You don't have to learn a command line or 'dependencies' or other requirements to get it installed. The learning curve is different.

I stand by my previous statement that most Windows users can not reinstall themselves. Also, with ubuntu you do not need to learn anything about dependencies or the command line unless you are trying some obscure piece of software.

[uputer]

I stand by my previous statement that most Windows users can not reinstall themselves. Also, with ubuntu you do not need to learn anything about dependencies or the command line unless you are trying some obscure piece of software.

Most people I know (who use computers) use Windows and there might be some who cannot reinstall but I think the majority do even if there are problems. But, like I have said before, the support is widespread. You need to configure IP or router or software, you have tech support who only know Windows and only support Windows.

I have heard before that there are situations in which the GUI is not the best way or best suited to solve a problem or get something work. In that case, you use the command line. Therefore, in those cases, if you are not sufficiently familiar with the command line, you are done unless you can find someone who knows Linux. Most likely, you are seeking support on a forum unless you personally know a linux user.

[ontik]

All this shouting is interesting. It's interesting because its sounds like nothing more than the echo of the shouting I got myself involved in about 5 years ago.

That was my first crack at Linux. It drove me nuts and I found the response I got to my frustration nothing short of rude from the advocate crowd. Ah, the irony is priceless isn't it? But I decided about a week ago to revisit and see how/if things had developed. I can see the build up and slow transition in the corporates to Linux back ends, and had continued to wonder how its progressing on the desktop. Hey its free so why not take a look?

Ubuntu is the first truly grown up attempt I've seen at trying to make linux palatable to a wider audience. My experience this time has been supported with GOOD help available via the ubuntu supplied forum that has provided a resolution to every issue I had setting up the box, which mostly involved the wireless NIC and some resolution problems I had. Easy to find easy to read and they worked. I didn't understand a lot of it but it worked, and I learnt some stuff along the way.

Ubuntu has some polish about it, and I imagine some of the other distros will have matured too, but one thing I have found that really blew me away is BERYL. I've installed Ubuntu & BERYL on a 5yr old PC (512Mb SD RAM etc) with a Radeon 9200 card. How can this machine deliver stella perfomance whilst running such a rich an capable (and thus far stable) graphic environment? Its more than snappy enough to impress any windows user but with an outstanding interface to boot.

I reckon BERYL could be the killer app. Its the one thing I've been showing people since that gets "WhooaAH!" as a response.

I work in the industry and managed to get all of this done in about 12Hrs. I wouldn't recommend my mum try it but I would be happy to set up a machine for her because since I've set up these few items, I haven't need to return to the CLI. If I give her an app for each task she want to perform (already got her on GIMP) she'll be no worries after a 5 minute intro, and I'll get less supoprt calls.

All I need XP for now is Ableton Live, but I'm happy to use Linux primarily at home from this point on.


ontiK.