View Poll Results: What does "ready for the desktop" mean to you?

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  • Any person can install it on any computer without any problems

    1,609 34.95%
  • Anyone can use it once it's already been installed and configured

    2,414 52.43%
  • Every commercial application works on it

    453 9.84%
  • Nothing--it's a nonsensical term

    704 15.29%
  • It automatically detects most hardware without the need to hunt down drivers

    2,236 48.57%
  • It comes preinstalled on computers so novice users don't have to install it

    889 19.31%
  • It's suitable to the needs of most beginner users but not necessarily to most intermediate ones

    568 12.34%
  • Windows and nothing else... not even Mac OS X

    46 1.00%
  • Works on my desktop

    1,199 26.04%
  • Other (please explain)

    166 3.61%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

  1. #491
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
    Beans
    885
    Distro
    Xubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    What newbies to GNU/Linux really needs are helpfull people that are actively involved in bug reporting, testing, helping with the questions in here and etc. Not someone with 3 out of 10 post complaining "linux should be more like windows".

  2. #492
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Under the Jolly Roger
    Beans
    571

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Soldier
    What newbies to GNU/Linux really needs are helpfull people that are actively involved in bug reporting, testing, helping with the questions in here and etc. Not someone with 3 out of 10 post complaining "linux should be more like windows".
    RIGHT ON!
    My sole duty is to my own happiness and well-being. I recognize no other.

  3. #493
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Texas
    Beans
    2,434

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Good honest post. I give good honest response.

    Quote Originally Posted by clehel
    1. Software installation/Package management: I like Synaptic, but it is still far from a double-click install. (Of course we do not need to just slavishly mimick Windows, but if something is better, or more user friendly in that OS, the wise behavior would be just to accept and learn.) The limited repositories might not be enough for some people. If you download just a single package that is not from these repositories, you either have to learn and use dpkg (forget it for an average user) or have to set up a local repository, and update it after downloading any new package, so Synaptic can see it. I succeeded with the latter, but not so easily. (Installed OpenOffice2.0 beta this way)
    - Is it a bad idea to create a sample local repository as part of a distribution? If you would click on 'Reload' in Synaptic, it might run first a script to update Packages.gz in the local repository, and then do it's normal jobs, among them checking packages in the local repo as well.
    - Is it possible to set up the system in a way that a double click on a deb package (in the local repository, for example) invokes Synaptic, and it knows what to do with it?
    - Still, the issue of dependencies remain, and I have simply no enough insight on this.
    Apt-get is the way. It the best way to control the chaos the is the Linux desktop I think. A new frontend for apt-get will come with Breezy, easier than Synaptic. I agree that clicking to install debs would be cool though.

    With explanation, of course. If single user is chosen, then anytime the user enters a directory, or edits a file that has root only privilege in a traditional system, then a warning message would appear telling that you plan to modify something critical for the system. If you click OK, then you are given root privilege, even without you knowing about it.

    NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO! Sudo is one of the best things about Ubuntu! It is BETTER than people are told (by asking for a password) that rootish things are happening. We do it the EXACT way Apple does, and no one gives Apple **** for it. The fact that people in Windows run in root all the time (which would happen in Ubuntu if you did not have the password protection in your example) is THE BIGGEST REASON that spyware/malware/viruses destroy the Windows world. If this one day becomes the "one thing" holding us back....then I say screw it, hold us back!

    3. Using a CD, floppy, etc. When I put a CD into the tray, I just want to use it, and have it available in all applications at once. And when I finished using it, I just want to be able to remove it by pushing it's eject button. I just don't care whether it is mounted or unmounted, and whether that is done via autofs, ivman, file protocol, media protocol, .desktop file, or whatever. I don't even want to know.
    Is automounting on the desktop not good enough? If people want to install things from the Ubuntu install CD/DVD Synaptic does it automatically. What more could you want?

    4. Windows emulation. The lack of just a single application in Linux might be enough to prevent someone from switching from Win to Lin. There are still some holes, although less and less. Of what I tried, VMWare is clearly the best emulation software, but unfortunately it is not free. wine can't do everything, qemu is good, but slower than VMWare (this I just heard, have not tried myself). So there is still room to progress here for a free software, and it is still very important.
    I hate to say it but....I agree. This does hold people back. But A lot of the Linux community is working on it, and we help not at all talking about it.

    5. The console is a great tool, really powerful. But for a beginner it is overwhelming and unfriendly. And not too many people have many hours to spend in front of the console, just to figure out what command to use, or what's wrong with the command you just entered. The man pages are not meant as a help system, but as a reference. There are a few good command line tutorials online, and I feel it would help if one of them would be incorporated into the Help menu of the console, or would be available through other ways as well. Also, a searchable, human readable help system for at least the most important commands would be helpful. I know, asking and criticizing is easy, words are cheap...
    We are working on that. More GUI tools are comming, we just want to drag Gnome to that point instead of making closed tools.

    I see no other way than a distribution becoming dominant.
    100% correct. You made a friend with that comment. I think cross distro Linux standards are a pipe dream without that.

    If I sounded like I was mad or frustrated in my post, know I am not. I just have strong opinion too...just like you. I thank you for your insight, and I hope you help us with elbow work to make Ubuntu easier. Have a nice day.
    Those folks who try to impose analog rules on digital content will find themselves on the wrong side of the tidal wave.
    - Mark Shuttleworth

  4. #494
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Munich, Germany
    Beans
    21
    Distro
    Ubuntu 6.06

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Why? Just to lure those sick of Microsoft? I do not think that is a good enough reason.
    Ever heard of something like.. let's say... competition?

    Not someone with 3 out of 10 post complaining "linux should be more like windows".
    I'm not sure if you actually meant that line serious or if you're simply trying to flame me.

  5. #495
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Under the Jolly Roger
    Beans
    571

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Quote Originally Posted by XQC
    Ever heard of something like.. let's say... competition?
    I've heard of it. I just think that rather than concern ourselves with Microsoft and Apple, we would do better to concern ourselves with carving out our own path and making Linux the best OS it can be, not an "alternative" to Windows or Mac OS. It's bad enough that Linux is a derivative of System V UNIX, but I suppose Linus had to start somewhere, and what he wanted was a home Unix that wasn't Minix.
    My sole duty is to my own happiness and well-being. I recognize no other.

  6. #496
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    I recently made the jump into Linux myself and I can tell you that there are huge challenges and obstacles to overcome simply because some things are done differently, you have to unlearn some things, and you have to get confortable with doing things differently. The point is is that regardless of what OS you install or use, you still need an enormous amount of knowedge and understanding of certain things to really do anything with that OS.

    I still think Linux needs work IF it is going to be more friendly to convert Windows users. However, I don't think the obstacle is so much with learning Linux as it is with unlearning Windows. Window's users live in a Microsoft world and it can be very difficult to think in non-Microsoft terms inspite of the fact that they may even know some things about Linux. Microsoft and virtually everyone they have come in contact with have conditioned them into believing that there is no other practical way to use a computer but to use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft products. Moving them from Windows to Linux is kind of like the Matrix. Window's users are a part of "the system" and they need our help if we are going to free them from that system

  7. #497
    arnieboy Guest

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Quote Originally Posted by Stormy Eyes
    I've heard of it. I just think that rather than concern ourselves with Microsoft and Apple, we would do better to concern ourselves with carving out our own path and making Linux the best OS it can be, not an "alternative" to Windows or Mac OS. It's bad enough that Linux is a derivative of System V UNIX, but I suppose Linus had to start somewhere, and what he wanted was a home Unix that wasn't Minix.
    With due regard to your viewpoints, I have a few counterpoints to make:
    For one thing u are contradicting yourself. When u say we should not be concerned with Apple and MS and go about carving our own path, I respect that idealism. But immediately after that u say "we will make it the best". when u use the word "best" u are making a very strong comparison with the rest and it also suggests that all along u have been quite abreast of whats been better in Apple or MS and tried to improve on ur own OS and make it the best. thats what i call double standards.. and it generally originates from irrationality.
    If linux wants to really become the best, it has to iron out its shortcomings (most of which windows users term as user-unfriendliness).. what they mean is "i can do that with a single clickon windows. why does linux make me type ten commands for doing the same thing?" This is a very valid point! It might be snuff to u and me and a few thousand others who have fed ourselves with the nuances of linux since we were in our nappies but what about the millions out there who have been fed windows fodder for a decade? Turning into the "best" means converting the masses from the inferior to the superior so that they all agree that the superior is the best.. we already know its much better.. but hey.. we dont rule the world.. the millions out there (read as dedicated windows users) taken together do. if we dont wanna care abt what they think then we shd stop this "we will become the best and will take over the world someday rant" and get back to second grade softwares and rave about the command line and its awesome powers.

  8. #498
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Under the Jolly Roger
    Beans
    571

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Arnieboy, I did not say "make it the best", I said "make it the best it can be", as in ensure that Linux reaches its full potential, whatever that potential may be. If I meant to say that we ought to make Linux better than either Windows or Mac OS, I would have said so.
    Last edited by Stormy Eyes; August 22nd, 2005 at 04:16 AM.
    My sole duty is to my own happiness and well-being. I recognize no other.

  9. #499
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Under the Jolly Roger
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    571

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    Quote Originally Posted by blastus
    Moving them from Windows to Linux is kind of like the Matrix. Window's users are a part of "the system" and they need our help if we are going to free them from that system
    That may be true, but like the Matrix, we can't just pull people out of Microsoft any more than Morpheus could have simply unplugged Neo from the Matrix. Windows users, like Neo, have to want to be free. Otherwise, we're no different from the US government trying to force a democratic republic on Iraq.
    My sole duty is to my own happiness and well-being. I recognize no other.

  10. #500
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    US
    Beans
    Hidden!
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Linux still needs to be more user friendly to convert Win users

    In accordance with my previous pledge, I've been trying to keep out of this, but I really think people shouldn't be talking about Linux as if it's one distribution. Part of the beauty of Linux is its variety. Different distros suit different needs. The OP can be all haughty and "no comment" me if he wants, but I really think anyone who wants to run as root and not know what goes on behind the scenes should use Linspire. That's what it's there for. People who are concerned about security and control of their computer should use Ubuntu. There are many other distros out there, too, that suit various users needs. What may be "user-friendly" for a Fedora user or Gentoo user may not be "user-friendly" to a Mepis user.

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