View Poll Results: What does "ready for the desktop" mean to you?

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  • Any person can install it on any computer without any problems

    1,609 34.95%
  • Anyone can use it once it's already been installed and configured

    2,414 52.43%
  • Every commercial application works on it

    453 9.84%
  • Nothing--it's a nonsensical term

    704 15.29%
  • It automatically detects most hardware without the need to hunt down drivers

    2,236 48.57%
  • It comes preinstalled on computers so novice users don't have to install it

    889 19.31%
  • It's suitable to the needs of most beginner users but not necessarily to most intermediate ones

    568 12.34%
  • Windows and nothing else... not even Mac OS X

    46 1.00%
  • Works on my desktop

    1,199 26.04%
  • Other (please explain)

    166 3.61%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

  1. #2851
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    The Bay Area, California.
    Beans
    26
    Distro
    Ubuntu 6.06

    Re: Linux aint that easy as everybody says.

    Dude, I think everyone has at least a few "Why am I even TRYING to use Linux?!" moments. I just found out that every time I "CTRL + ALT + BACKSPACE," I have to reconfigure my xorg.conf to get back into my desktop. Not only that, but all my mouse settings are out the window once I do, AND my monitor is missing an inch of space until I run xvidtune.

    I'm not even done... There's 10 Ubuntu entries in my Grub loader. WTF is that?!



    I do hope you stick around long enough to find that Linux *is* easier, faster, and more fun in many [most?] ways.
    "He said, 'You'll come to a wall you won't be able to get through.'
    So I said, 'I'll beat my head against that wall.' " --John Cage

  2. #2852
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Texas
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: Linux aint that easy as everybody says.

    I started using Linux when Ubuntu (Warty Warthog) came out. It was quite a learning curve indeed. I started, stalled, gave up, and came back again. I now feel very comfortable with the command line. I am no command line guru, but I don't freak out about it any more. Some things I click some things I type into the command line. It is nice to have the option.

    I have found that Linux sometimes takes a while to get it set up just right, but once it is running it just works. For me Windoze usually sets up quick, but after a few months things start to slow down. Then I remember that I have not defraged it lately. After about an hour of defraging I find out I have a virus.

    It is all a matter of perspective. Stick with it and one day you will look back and laugh.

    Jereme

  3. #2853
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    UK
    Beans
    155
    Distro
    Dapper Drake Testing/

    Re: Ubunt vs Windows perceived performance and support resources a newbie’s view

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu View Post
    It's funny this thread's title mentions Ubuntu and not Linux in general.

    I agree there is a lot of Linux documentation and help that assumes too much of the new user, but the Ubuntu documentation and help is what got me into Ubuntu in the first place.

    The forum members really explained things step by step, and the Ubuntu Guide had some really great copy-and-paste commands all on one page.
    Its a good title because other distros are faster than ubuntu so comparing windows to ubuntu is perfectly fine.

    I do find that windows tricks you into believing that everything has loaded up but that isn't the case as they load up the desktop before the system is fully loaded and functional when you see the desktop on ubuntu its usable windows on the other hand makes you wait for services...etc to start.

    Also I do find ubuntu is move stable.
    Eg: copying over from a usb 2 hard drive at usb2 speeds and watching a film.... plus doing other stuff i saw no slow down what so ever nor did i feel like the system was going to crash.
    Last edited by Virogenesis; July 13th, 2006 at 03:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy View Post
    I think that ms's future will be a drunken and down-on-his-luck Steve Balmer on a beach somewhere in South America or the far east, trying to convince bored american tourists that he used to be important.

  4. #2854
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    EU - Portugal - Vendas de Azeitão
    Beans
    112

    Re: Ubunt vs Windows perceived performance and support resources a newbie’s view

    I've seen the performance on both and I can safelly say that Ubuntu will probably win a few years from now when multi-cores are more common.

    Right now both are pretty much the same.
    Windows looks like if it's done when you can't do anything with it; and Ubuntu doesn't show you anything until you can use it.
    Diferences aside there it's pretty much equal for me.

    Although if I have like 4 programs open, then ubuntu wins.

    The best thing you might find about Ubuntu is the fact that it's perfomance will need some serious hits to degrade, unlike in windows where it's a fact no matter what you do, the more you use it, the less speed you have.

    Some things could be improved, and on many windows machines those tweaks have been put into place, where in Ubuntu they usually haven't.

    Ubuntu has performance issues on many programs the last time I checked because of several other tinny things it needs for those programs. Windows has many of those shared, Ubuntu can't make that happen. I'm refering to the programs libraries...

    Overall thinking aside, Ubuntu is pretty much on the same level as Windows. Some have issues on one end, while the other hasn't got those issues, but another completelly diferent set.

    Like I mentioned before...
    Ubuntu works better for me when there are several programs opened because it doesn't slow down there. Windows does slow down when those same, or equivalent programs are opened.

    In case you are wondering... I don't have a multi-core processor.
    Just an AMD at 2000MHZ.

  5. #2855
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Beans
    6,023

    Re: Ubunt vs Windows perceived performance and support resources a newbie’s view

    Please try this http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189192

    as prelinking alone made my system significantly faster.

  6. #2856
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    527
    Distro
    Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn

    Re: Linux in state of chaos?

    let us realize that Gnu/Linux is more of an idea than a Operating System even if Microsoft kills it it will still exist. Metaphorically Linux is a pheonix that will rize from its ashes and the release of ubuntu after that will be something like Smothering(Rising) Pheonix. However, I do think we need some sort of leader or something to stop the infighting between both distros and desktop environments (Gnome KDE) and programming languages. We are raging a civil war amongst a small community we have walls put up making it hard for new people to come in. I think we need to unify a bit but keep chaos. How is this possible it aint.

  7. #2857
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Beans
    9

    Re: general linux winge: don't bother to read or reply

    I am running paperport in VMware and have no problems.

    I am also a subscriber to MAXVIEW, the linux port to paperport.

    If you want Ubuntu kernel and a simple interface. MEPIS is the place to go.

    Posts like this where you fly in, lob your complaints and then say "don't bother replying" are juvenile.

  8. #2858
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Western Australia
    Beans
    11,480
    Distro
    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Linux in state of chaos?

    There's not really a lot of infighting. There's a distinct coldness between Debian and Ubuntu, but other than that everyone gets along well. Gnome and KDE users don't generally flame eachother. Debian packages and RPMs are interchangable. I don't know about programming languages, but I don't think they're fighting either. There are continual efforts to get Gnome and KDE inter-operating better.
    I try to treat the cause, not the symptom. I avoid the terminal in instructions, unless it's easier or necessary. My instructions will work within the Ubuntu system, instead of breaking or subverting it. Those are the three guarantees to the helpee.

  9. #2859
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Midwest, USA
    Beans
    82
    Distro
    Ubuntu 16.04 Xenial Xerus

    Re: general linux winge: don't bother to read or reply

    As a long time linux user who has spent very long periods of time not even touching a windows system, I'll have to strongly disagree with people who say linux isn't ready for the desktop. I think it's the opposite. When I finally had to use windows again last month, I was terribly frustrated at how difficult it was to get things done. Microsoft Office 2003 is a huge disappointment and when trying to copy and paste between excel and powerpoint, I got all sorts of screen garbage. Virus scan software got in the way. The firewall got in the way. IE crashed. Microsoft wanted to install some sort of spyware called "Microsoft Genuine Advantage". I find it hard to believe anyone still wants to use windows. My linux system might have required the editing of a few text files to get things configured the way I want, but after that all my software works exactly the way I expect it to work every time I use it. I've never had that experience on windows.

  10. #2860
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Beans
    7

    Is Ubuntu LInux ready to take over the desktops? (do not read if you are a zealot)

    Is Ubuntu ready to take over the desktops of the Average Joe?

    Dont think so.

    Despite of all the efforts made by the Linux and Ubuntu community I dont think it will ever make it there untill someone starts throwing some serious money at it. As it is now the system is nothing but patchwork of a wild set of libraries and config files and as such extremely fragile. A simple change in one place launches a butterfly effect cascading through the whole system and with any bad luck rendering the installation wholly broken.

    Also the use of the system is always hindered by a random set of nagging problems that take lots of time to resolve. A naive person would think that as a "learning experince" but unfortunately there is no carry over of this knowledge cause its use is one time only and a new installation/upgrade will have different problems. So the only thing you learn is that you're wasting your time wrestling all these small and big issues instead of using your computer to get your stuff done.

    Here's my Dapper Drake installation demonstrating some problems out of the box:

    Hardware:
    ABIT 875P, Intel P4 2.6Ghz.
    2 * SATA HD (WD, Maxtor)
    1 * CDR-ROM (IDE)
    1 * DVD-ROM (IDE)


    o Kernel SCSI driver ata_piix.ko floods error messages into kernel ring buffer.
    After running the system for half an hour syslog is about 60Mb. Also when switching over
    to another tty it gets flooded with error messages.

    "PIO Error"
    "ata2: no sense translation for 0x20"
    "ata2: no sense translation for status 0x51"

    After (a lot of) research I found a post on lkml.org saying that those error message are mundane.

    Solution:
    download 2.6.15 source, hack into scsi-core.c and comment out the "printk" log function call, build and install
    custom kernel.


    o After configuring (using the stock kernel config as basis), compiling and installing both kernel and modules
    and configuring /boot/grub/menu.lst the new kernel refuses to boot.

    "WARNING: cannot open /lib/modules/2.6.15"
    "FATAL ERROR: cannot open /lib/modules/2.6.15/modules.dep.temp for writing"

    Real solution:
    Unknown

    Workaround 1:
    create a symlink in the stock kernel driver folder pointing to the new scsi driver folder. Rename old.
    But this doesnt work. Old ata_piix.ko is still loaded.


    Workaround 2:
    Copy new modules over.

    o Mounting NFS partitions takes a long time and even though it succeedes eventually (after the sun has gone past horizon).

    Solution:
    Research reveals, reinstalling nfs-common might help. However as it turns out it is not installed to begin with, yet system
    doesn't give a descriptive error message (as usually is given when type is not known or mountable) but sits quiet.

    o Installing NVIDIA driver off the synaptic fails. Once lib-glx and NVIDIA driver are installed and automagically configured X refuses to run.

    "cannot load library "glx"
    "cannot load library "nvidia".
    "no screens found yadi yadi yadi".

    Solution:
    Uninstall nvidia and glx packages. Download driver from nvidia website and kernel headers from synaptic. Close X server, build NVIDIA driver and run the nvidia config tool again.

    o Switching over to another tty2 twice hangs X (or whatever). I think this is a problem in NVIDIA driver.

    Solution:
    Get someone fix Linux so that major players, such as Nvidia, have the interest to produce something proper.


    And then some smaller yet frustrating, aggrevating, annoying, bloodlust raising problems.

    o Mouse semi works. I.e forward/backward buttons do not work.

    Solution:
    Download and install imwheel from synaptic. Configure xorg.conf (Options ZAxisMapping "4 5", Option Buttons "7"),
    configure imwheel (IMWHEEL_PARAMS="b 0089").

    o .fluxrc is not run when logging on.
    - gnome-config-daemon does not get started and gtk2 theme does not get applied
    - fluxbox desktop background does not get set

    o System is using UTF-8 locale. Scandinavian characters mess up in terminal (and in the manpage??)

    Solution:
    Unknown

    o XEmacs menu bar has font size 68pt. Very annoying. (gtk1 theme problem??)
    Solution:
    Unknown


    And the list goes on...

    I consider myself a computer literate person, being a programmer by profession. Yet it takes time (days) heaps of effort and determination to get a the system running without snags.
    How is Joe the Average who can barely run the basic office tools to get his job done supposed to get these issues resolved? He isnt. And thats why Linux will stay as a hacker platform, unreachable by the masses.

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