Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

[Tortanick]

I'd hope not, then software companies would target goolinux exclusively. If they had to target even two diffrent distros, one RPM and one Deb based, that would make it much more likely that any distro could install the software easily without having to copy the isms of one perticular distro.

As for chaos vs unification:

chaos:
Specilised distros
That perfect distro for your tastes
Survival of the fittest, no one can just rest on lurals like M$
etc etc

[Iandefor]

So basically, my question is.... how do you guys do it? How do you use Ubuntu on a day-to-day basis and not freak out all the time? I just dont see the advantage of switching to Linux just yet other then the security of it.

I handle it right. I know where to look when something's gone funny.
I know where to go when X misconfigures my widescreen right after install, and I know why it misconfigures it. I know that if I want Totem to play DVD's, I just have to install totem-xine.

It all comes down to personal preference- in the end, I have ultimate control over my computing experience. If I don't like something, I can get it changed. If something breaks, I can fix it. If you'd rather have something that has wide hardware support out of the box, but at the expense of having malware to deal with, well, perhaps XP is what you need. I encourage you to try a dual-boot setup.

[az]

The point is you can get just about everything (within reason - not talking about red hat 6.0 software) to work together at the source level.

People miss that point. It is a major strenght of FLOSS. You can't get any closer to pleasing the market when it's the market itself that decides what everything is. In the case of FLOSS, the movers and shakers are a by-and-large the users.

You use FLOSS for business because the ability to make it do what you need it to do brings you value.

This is what "not being locked in" looks like.


"it would be better to have a strongly standardized system, even one from the Evil Empire, rather than the present chaos."

Since when is this not standardized? When was the time a major bit of the infrastructure forked? (Xorg?) It's bloody rare. And it usually only happens for a good reason. This is not chaos.

[Ubuntuud]

This is a very simplistic vision of the Linux landscape. There are actually several projects (Portland Project, Linux Standards Base, The DCC) that are working to share ideas and get a common ground between Linux distros.

That said, there will always be fragmentation--such is the nature of an open source license.

http://www.psychocats.net/essays/unifiedlinux

There it is again, multiple projects working on the same thing

[aysiu]

There it is again, multiple projects working on the same thing

Actually, no.

It seems the Portland Project is created with the goal of being included in the Linux Standards Base:

The Portland Project is an initiative taken to establish a greater Linux foothold in the desktop market. It aims at resolving a number of key factors that are believed to reduce the adoption rate of Linux distributions as desktop operating systems. While the Tango Desktop Project was started to give users a more unified graphical experience, the Portland Project is intended to ease the porting of desktop applications to Linux for independent software vendors (ISVs). The project goal is to let software developers worry less about the desktop environment a distribution is using, and thus bring it on more common ground with e.g. Microsoft Windows and Mac OS X in this particular area.

The project has Alex Graveley (GNOME) and George Staikos (KDE) as two of the task force leaders, who will look to gain feedback from ISVs, integration possibilities, and possibly create a draft implementation as well.

A goal for the Portland Project is to have it be included in Linux Standard Base 4.0, due in late 2006.

And the DCC isn't doing "the same thing" at all, since it's specifically for Debian:

The DCC Alliance is an association of organizations and individuals to assemble a common, standards-based core for Debian-based Linux distributions and accelerate worldwide commercial adoption of Debian GNU/Linux. While the DCC Alliance is an independent organization, we work closely with the Debian community in implementing common standards and enterprise features.

[jethro10]

[URL="http://www.heise.de/ct/06/14/003/"]

Even veteran Linux users ask if this must be so. Is Linux so good that it can afford to waste so much manpower?

This is the total crux of the state of linux. Every one blabs on about choice in the myriads of distributions but to the Windows user, linux is linux, and the choice is windows v's linux. Any new User I have shown Ubuntu to says "its fascinating that this can happen but its clunkier than windows".

Divided we stand !
If every one got together and wrote one or two CD burners, KDE and Gnome got together, etc. Windows is big enough to have 20 CD burners, linux isn't.

Pull together and linux may stand a chance.
I prefere KDE but everyone seems to be going Gnome. To me thats still great as it will attract more developers ultimatley
And thats as it should be. for the 'core' of linux, meaning Gnome, OOo, a few CD burners, only one or 2 mail clients etc and the more developers will make them better. Combine resources
J

[aysiu]

It was actually divided resources, not combined resources that got Gnome and KDE to where they are today:
http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/KDE_v_Gnome_history

First of all, I think you're missing something--people are, as I mentioned before--already trying to combine efforts.

That said, more on one project does not a more efficient project make.

I've worked with one or two people on projects (these were not software projects, granted, but the same principle applies), and I've worked with fifteen people on projects, and if anything I've found, it's that getting fifteen people (let alone 100) to agree on what direction to head or where to use their energy wastes a lot more energy than having them all do their own thing and compare notes.

[Miguel]

Jethro, I beg to disagree. If you like KDE, go on and use KDE. You might not have the technical skills, but there are a large number of programmers in KDE, so you can count on future improvement. Also, even if you are not a programmer, you can help with bug reports, constructive criticism, language translations, beta testing, etc.

Do I prefer Gnome? Yes, but that shouldn't drive you to use other things. You might have an older computer that struggles to run KDE. Why not run XFce or IceWM or whatever then? Does division keep all projects from advancing faster? Yes, but it also helps reaching out unimagined places. Someone mentioned survival. This is like it. The more "fit" programs get more developers, but freedom of choice assures other developers pursue other goals that might go further than we see now.

Should there be standards? For sure. The Linux Standard Base is starting to grow in importance. This allows for binary things to interoperate, having a definite folder structure and behaviour (like ANSI C). Then we have freedesktop, which attempts to get the more important conceps consistent in all important DE's: Gnome, XFce and KDE. Consistant behaviour, but not identical. Every project has it's goal.

As a final note, I'd like to mention that most people here underestimate the power of the GNU tools. These have also been more or less "driven" one way only, but because there was a need to have compatible tools.

BTW: Most people in the world use Newtonian Mechanics. Should I use classical mechanics to describe and predict the behaviour of the high pressure phases I study? No way!. Newton's laws are shown to be wrong. We know it for sure. Newton's laws don't work (in general). On the other hand, it would be silly to design an RF antenna using quantum electrodynamics calculations, even if they are able to predict numbers up to the 11th figure (mind you, it doesn't get any more accurate than that). I see linux in a similar light to this. Different people, different needs, different tools.

See you

[aysiu]

Would we have better cars if all car manufacturers worked on one car? Would we have better pizza if every chef in the world worked on one pizza recipe? Would we have a better book if all authors worked on one book?

This whole idea of unified Linux or a unified desktop environment is crazy. Seriously.

Standards--sure, those are a good idea. Everything should have standards. Everyone should work on compatibility. But to say they are wasting their efforts by working on different projects doesn't translate to almost everything else in life--music, politics, airlines, video games, banks...

[enyaw]

Ubuntu lives off its billionaire

Such a remark as this post makes is uncalled for, and such a remark should raise the hackels on every Ubuntarian. Unbuntu lives because it's the best.

Additionally: Linux is an adventure.

Also, I don't want computing in a can.