View Poll Results: What does "ready for the desktop" mean to you?

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  • Any person can install it on any computer without any problems

    1,609 34.95%
  • Anyone can use it once it's already been installed and configured

    2,414 52.43%
  • Every commercial application works on it

    453 9.84%
  • Nothing--it's a nonsensical term

    704 15.29%
  • It automatically detects most hardware without the need to hunt down drivers

    2,236 48.57%
  • It comes preinstalled on computers so novice users don't have to install it

    889 19.31%
  • It's suitable to the needs of most beginner users but not necessarily to most intermediate ones

    568 12.34%
  • Windows and nothing else... not even Mac OS X

    46 1.00%
  • Works on my desktop

    1,199 26.04%
  • Other (please explain)

    166 3.61%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

  1. #1501
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Denmark - Scandinavia
    Beans
    18,770
    Distro
    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    Pixel32 is worth it IMHO, bought it a half year ago though it's still in beta it looks very promising
    And it's fast, it take my computer 0.5 sec to fully load pixel32
    | AMD Ryzen 1700x 3.4 GHz | ASUS PRIME X370-A | 32 GB 2400 Mhz DDR4 |
    | ASUS Nvidia 1070 8 GB | SSD 250 GB | HDD 1 TB |


    Check my Desktop for ideas Desktop 1 and Desktop 2
    What Sheldon Cooper thinks of Ubuntu.

  2. #1502
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    0

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    I want to thank you all for your responses. Really.
    You are welcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    To respond to some of the questions that are brought up. I think the usability issue everyone is so confused about is that I can run KDE apps inside Gnome, and the interfaces are different.
    Yep, that's far from ideal, however it's also partly an ubuntu problem as ubuntu doesn't set up kde and gnome with a common theme and also doesn't use other techniques to better integrate the two, as for example Mandriva does.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    Also, then open up VLC program, this doesn't look like gnome or KDE, but like some java application.
    Also an ubuntu problem, as VLC isn't compiled with the newest wxgtk version, that would give you a consisten look with Gnome. However, this will change in the next release.

    And as someone already mentioned, you'll be treated to the same inconsistency on other platforms too.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    Re: Firestarter
    I'm used to an application level firewall control. Firefox comes up for the first time and attempts to access the internet, a pop shows up and asks me if I want to allow it or deny it, and make it temporary or a permanent rule. Firestarter doesn't have application level control from what I can grasp of it. I want this because I like knowing what is making an internet connection and why.
    Application firewalls are insecure and useless toys and firestarter is a frontend to netfilter/iptables, which is something completely different from an application firewall. That said, if you want an application firewall, check out Mandriva. They ship one.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    MP3
    Like I said I haven't found a great mp3 application that can handle a large library. I want a library function for searching, and playlists, amarok again just isn't my cup of tea. Rythmbox I wouldn't mind if it could handle my library.
    Try bmp, quod libet, banshee or something like madman+xmms. I'm sure I fogot many options and personally I never had any problems when it comes to mp3 players on linux.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    I would like to try out this "Listen" software but I'm having trouble tracking it down. Can someone point me in the right direction. Maybe, better yet, is there some central resource that lists all the best linux software including this Listen.
    Listen is in very early developement, so I really wouldn't recomend it, though it looks promising.

  3. #1503
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Planet NoVA
    Beans
    2,091
    Distro
    Ubuntu 11.04 Natty Narwhal

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software sucks

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    It didn't come off hostile, and I understand just by looking at your bean count that you are obviously very active in the community so you've seen the arguments presented before. That's why you quickly respond with the troll alert.

    I for one, haven't, I'm new to all this. I follow the the news closely and article after blog all the raving about how ready Linux is, you can't help but get your expectations soaring. Sometimes people need to blow off some steam. So where does that leave me. I'm appalled by the licensing that Microsoft has taken to the point where I've sworn them off, throw in security attacks, viruses, and its easy to come to the conclusion of abandoning windows.

    So where does that leave me? I'm not about to plunk down $4000 for a Mac that I'm not certain I want or will like, especially while they are in the middle of an archeticture change.

    So my other educated option is to go with Linux. Your reply comes off as "tuff s**t, you gotta deal with all our issues too." Maybe I just needed to read that, but that doesn't make me any happier. It also doesn't make the software any better.
    Good for you for deciding not to use Windows any more. But now that you've made your bed, I'm afraid you have to lie in it. Just as you have to deal with myriad exploits and flaws in Windows, you must also deal with Linux. Living in Linux is like life in a gold-rush boomtown: ramshackle buildings go up, are extended, fill with all sorts of people. It's a rowdy, disordered place.

    As others on this thread have already said, your options are limited:

    1) Develop. If you can write code and are willing to commit, this is a fine way to get involved.

    2) Donate. Someone has to pay bandwidth costs, developer time, etc.

    3) Discuss. File bug reports in appropriate fora (not this one, btw--there's a bugzilla link in the top right for filing bugs).

    4) Document. Write manuals, howtos, treatises.

    If you feel that none of the above will help you, and you're still frustrated, I implore you: use the OS that makes you most productive.

    Linux gets oversold in the greater community. Enthusiasts (myself included, often as not) tend to accentuate the benefits while not necessarily preparing prospective new users for the challenges. While desktop Linux has come a very long way since the first time I encountered it (maybe Redhat 6, on a friend's computer in college), the progress has been uneven, and focused mainly on general office/productivity work. Specialized fields--audio, video, and to a much lesser extent, drawing--have not been as aggressively developed.

    Again: if your particular needs are not being met by any solution, the rational choice is to abandon an unworkable solution and seek another one which does fulfill your needs.

  4. #1504
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    To be honest, the *ONLY* thing that disappoints me about Ubuntu is that its "not quite" as user friendly as i'm ready for yet. Needs more GUI/wizards for it to become a viable desktop OS for the majority. (It needs a few years yet, but whats sure is it WILL get there, its no longer a question of "if")

    I'm not slating Ubuntu by any means, but as a pretty much windows expert, I have simply been spoilt by the "point and click" usability of windows. Had I started on Linux however, there'd be no problem, but with windows stupidly simple GUI (eg. No command line usage needed) and way of doing things embedded into my brain, the switch to Linux is proving a little too difficult for me to make right now.

  5. #1505
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    0

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    Quote Originally Posted by *John*
    To be honest, the *ONLY* thing that disappoints me about Ubuntu is that its "not quite" as user friendly as i'm ready for yet. Needs more GUI/wizards for it to become a viable desktop OS for the majority. (It needs a few years yet, but whats sure is it WILL get there, its no longer a question of "if")

    I'm not slating Ubuntu by any means, but as a pretty much windows expert, I have simply been spoilt by the "point and click" usability of windows. Had I started on Linux however, there'd be no problem, but with windows stupidly simple GUI (eg. No command line usage needed) and way of doing things embedded into my brain, the switch to Linux is proving a little too difficult for me to make right now.
    I think you should really give an other distro a try then. As great as ubuntu is, it's really lacking in the gui config tools departement. I agree.

    However, check out Suse, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and you will see that this is largely an ubuntu problem, not a linux problem per se.

  6. #1506
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    EU - Belgium
    Beans
    1,625

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    To respond to some of the questions that are brought up. I think the usability issue everyone is so confused about is that I can run KDE apps inside Gnome, and the interfaces are different. Also, then open up VLC program, this doesn't look like gnome or KDE, but like some java application. It just seems that some applications I open have the nice gnome theme I've set, then others have some strange KDE theme, and then others still are all gray and boxy. This is the inconsistency I'm talking about. Try opening up Firestarter, Firefox, amarok, and VLC. Notice how only firefox applys my gnome theme?
    Firestarter follows my Gnome theme fully. I think the problem for you is that your themes are installed in .themes in your home directory and not in /usr/share/themes. Apps that run as root look for the theme there (system wide).

    VLC is an unfortunate example, yes. It was not compiled with Gnome support (GTK2) by accident which makes it look out of place. This will be fixed in the next Ubuntu release. This doesn't affect Totem though, which is the standard player supplied with Ubuntu. (If you install totem-xine and w32codecs, it can play most formats).

    Other than that and with themes installed system wide, your interface can look as consistent as on windows (where GTK and QT apps also look different).

    Re: Firestarter
    I'm used to an application level firewall control. Firefox comes up for the first time and attempts to access the internet, a pop shows up and asks me if I want to allow it or deny it, and make it temporary or a permanent rule. Firestarter doesn't have application level control from what I can grasp of it. I want this because I like knowing what is making an internet connection and why.
    Yes, but application level firewalls are not better than firestarter.

    MP3
    Like I said I haven't found a great mp3 application that can handle a large library. I want a library function for searching, and playlists, amarok again just isn't my cup of tea. Rythmbox I wouldn't mind if it could handle my library.

    I would like to try out this "Listen" software but I'm having trouble tracking it down. Can someone point me in the right direction. Maybe, better yet, is there some central resource that lists all the best linux software including this Listen.
    I tracked it down here: http://listengnome.free.fr/, but it is offline for now because they didn't credit the projects they used code from. It should be back soon.
    Linux user #249404 - September 1997
    http://nocturn.vsbnet.be - RSS

    Before executing any commands, make sure you kow what they mean, read this first!

  7. #1507
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Beans
    53

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    If you dont like the software, program it yourself.
    The only programs i use on windows (my other computer i hardly use) is just photoshop and dreamweaver, i dont play games often anymore, so I have no point to windows.
    Sure there is crossover or whatever its called, but thats just Dreamweaver MX, not DW8

    I love linux and what it can do, sure there can be an improvement with a few things, but the support is great, there is so many addons, so many extra things you can do.
    I use VLC for nearly EVERYTHING with MP3, and its great.
    I love going on the IRC, everyone helps, everyone is really nice and stuff.

  8. #1508
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    0

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    I don't understand why everyone is beating on application level firewalls. They have saved my butt countless times. The instant some program tries to make a connection I'm alerted, how can you guys not see the benefit of that. Let's say you install some program from a questionable source, that program has a call back home, I'm a big proponent of privacy, and I don't want that call back to occur. Unless I have application level firewall control I have no way of controlling application by application internet access.

    Don't tell me I don't need that level of security, call me paranoid, but its what others have, (windows has countless #'s including Tiny, Zone Alarm, OSX has Little Snitch). These exist for a reason.

    And don't tell me in Linux that doesn't happen since if there isn't a program that can tell me that info how do you know it doesn't?

  9. #1509
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    EU - Belgium
    Beans
    1,625

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    I don't understand why everyone is beating on application level firewalls. They have saved my butt countless times. The instant some program tries to make a connection I'm alerted, how can you guys not see the benefit of that. Let's say you install some program from a questionable source, that program has a call back home, I'm a big proponent of privacy, and I don't want that call back to occur. Unless I have application level firewall control I have no way of controlling application by application internet access.

    Don't tell me I don't need that level of security, call me paranoid, but its what others have, (windows has countless #'s including Tiny, Zone Alarm, OSX has Little Snitch). These exist for a reason.

    And don't tell me in Linux that doesn't happen since if there isn't a program that can tell me that info how do you know it doesn't?
    I'm not saying your level of security is too high. I'm suggesting that firewalls based on application checksums are not specificly a good thing.

    One thing to start with is not to install software from questionable sources. The second is that packet filters can do a very good job of protecting your system and that the default kernel firewall on Linux is very good.

    Not running as admin user (root) only adds to your security and will prevent a lot of malware from running.
    Linux user #249404 - September 1997
    http://nocturn.vsbnet.be - RSS

    Before executing any commands, make sure you kow what they mean, read this first!

  10. #1510
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
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    0

    Re: Impressions of Linux and why the software disappoints me

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    I don't understand why everyone is beating on application level firewalls. They have saved my butt countless times. The instant some program tries to make a connection I'm alerted, how can you guys not see the benefit of that.
    Any *evil* program worth it's salt will use an other, non-suspicious program to access the net. You however will feel safe, because you are running this great application firewall. Not good.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    Let's say you install some program from a questionable source, that program has a call back home, I'm a big proponent of privacy, and I don't want that call back to occur. Unless I have application level firewall control I have no way of controlling application by application internet access.
    Simple. Don't install programs from questionable sources. In fact, the repository concept in Linux largely solves this problem anyway, much better than any application firewall.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    Don't tell me I don't need that level of security, call me paranoid, but its what others have, (windows has countless #'s including Tiny, Zone Alarm, OSX has Little Snitch). These exist for a reason.
    See above. And at least my point is not that you are paranoid, but that application firewalls don't offer security.

    Quote Originally Posted by WalterDirt
    And don't tell me in Linux that doesn't happen since if there isn't a program that can tell me that info how do you know it doesn't?
    There are more than enough programs that will tell you exactly what is going on on your network and nobody stops you from using something like privoxy. Also, as I said, Mandriva ships with an application firewall.

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