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Thread: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

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    Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    To save time, I'm just going to copy and paste in portions of a couple e-mails I wrote to a few friends about this lately, so a couple parts will repeat, but extra detail is also present. I just want feedback about it

    E-mail #1:
    The first idea on the list is what I would call a Black Internet (and when I say black, I'm talking Black Market...I know that's a terrible title, but it's not as bad as it sounds). The infrastructure of it would consist of nothing but already existent wireless internet hardware that people already own or could buy dirt cheap. Lots of people have wireless internet adapters and networking cards. All they need now is a piece of software to enable auto-configuring, Ad-Hoc, Wireless-Mesh-Topology network; a freelance, public controlled Intranet (that's INTRAnet, or, a very huge Local Area Network). Such a software already exists that enables such networking, and it's called Wipeer, and it runs on Windows only. The developers are considering going open source (and they should do it now before their idea is copied and someone develops an alternative faster than they can upgrade their own and have a Linux version available).

    All communication from peer to peer on such a network is encrypted with high end encryption. So that, if you are conducting data transfers to others in the wireless mesh that you wish to be kept private from end to end, it can be done very easily and safely. Data Encryption is something of a blessing, these days. I don't understand why the entire internet hasn't become encrypted yet. Probably just to save on bandwidth... But it can be forced upon a public controlled wireless network.

    File sharing isn't the only thing this network would support. It could also be used as a replacement for telephone calls. Also be a method for computer gamers to play multilayer video games with each other. Eventually, you would have such an infrastructure in place that within it would be several people who have dual network connections. One network is the wireless mesh, and the other is the actual internet. These nodes would act as doorways that would allow the resources on the actual internet to be shared with the wireless intranet. The possibilities of it's use are really endless. The only limit it would need to break is co-existence with the real internet, until the line between the two networks blur enough that you can't tell the difference between the two very easily.

    E-mail #2:
    Ok, so who would benefit? Well, to use an analogy, pretend we're talking about hobbyist CB Radio operators. You know...those yahoo's who yell at each other over the airwaves just for fun? Or worse, send messages in mores code to each other. Yeah, those nutty guys. Well, a long time ago, you had to have a special license to engage in this form of communication. But later on, that rule was dropped, and just anybody could participate if they wanted to. I even knew a guy who went so far as find another guy to trade files with via a special kind of external modem and a CB radio. No phone line. And we thought we were nerds. This guy lived in Ozawkie, right next to the middle school. (I ever tell you about Rick?)

    Blah blah, anyway. People who would wish to participate in some sort of wireless mesh internet are the types who would start off by doing it as a hobby. But later on, it's fringe benefits would become viral, and spread like gossip. "What? You can P2P file share? Talk to others in your neighborhood, even your city, via the computer, and for free? And I don't have to pay anybody? And it's legal? Awesome!" Well it may not be 100% legal, but proving it illegal would be 99% impossible, thanks to heavy encryption.

    Seems like the only thing that stands in the way of giving people access to the internet for free is copper wire and a $40 bill and some nosy ISP or worse.... But the internet, the very concept of this form of global communication, isn't something that is impossible to rebuild without wires or fiber at all, but instead, radio waves and wireless devices and built voluntarily by the public. Access to it would eventually become practically global, or at least, as available as a cell phone might be (because they're are a lot of people there). Sounds impossible, but where else can the internet go in the next 10 years? Where has it gone in the last 10 years? Everywhere, faster and faster. People need it. It's addictive for good reason. But they also want ensure it to be truly democratic in form and nature. Not monitored and spied on.

    Traffic: The flow of data would happen in the same manner that data flows in a bittorrent swarm. You would send a file to someone by bursting scattered chunks of data towards random people, but it would still be routed to the place it needs to go to, using routing protocols that comply with IEEE 802.1s, or something similar. When you request a file from soneone, it could actually comes to you from several different people at the same time, either because they have a copy of it too, or are just distributing their available upload/download bandwidth they currently have available; everybody shares the load. Cable modems limit upload bandwidth at about 64KB a second. It's worse with DSL. But we all know that our own wireless adapters and wireless access points/routers are well capable of transmitting several Megabits a second in both directions, especially if you're using 802.1n or better. I mean, we're actually on the cusp of witnessing consumer wireless network devices cross the Gigabit data transfer range. Why not put that bandwidth to better use?

    Do I want to make money off of this? No. I don't want to play a centralized role in this, at least not one where I might be held accountable. Then again, it's either that, or no role I guess. I might as well try it. How might I do this?... I think the only way to get something like this off the ground is through some sort of viral marketing, reliance on word of mouth, and a website that would give visitors live feedback on the likeliness that someone else in their neighborhood would be interested in participating in such a project. So, you'd have a map of Topeka (or wherever), divided into arbitrary regions, which would have tally marks of the number of people who live in those places who have indicated that they have downloaded whatever software is available to them from the same website (which I would host) and that they are interested in seeing others in their neighborhood pickup the ball and play. It's not intended to replace the internet, but rather, expand it's freedom into local regions (and perhaps, allow the regular internet to become sanitized so the RIAA has a harder time tracking people). File sharing sure might play a big part in it, but so would a lot of other features. It would be targeted against cable companies, telephone companies, and eventually internet service providing companies, the RIAA, the MPAA, enemies of the constitution...etc. etc. Trying to ban it would be in direct violation of the first amendment, so the concept of a black internet has nothing illegal about it by itself. It is neutral without participation, so the idea is not illegal. How people use it, that would be left to them.

    So....CB radio + Computer = Black Internet. Or whatever. It's just a dream. But it is within our grasp if we just want it enough. Call it "Plan B' if Net Neutrality fails. It is only a possibility.
    Last edited by diablo75; April 3rd, 2007 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Added emphasis

  2. #2
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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    the idea is not bad imo, but the problem is the start. you would need a town full of computer enthusiasts willing to give up their aol isp, willing to try to do something else on the internet other than instant messaging. you realize it would take a lot of people. i don't find the idea impossible. with the development of technology things are getting cheeper and cheeper and if for example more and more people would buy wireless modems they would get even cheeper.
    the name kind of puts it down though. and it sounds a bit like you just want a faster way of downloading your mp3s.
    the first steps would be hard.... and the rest will be as they say history.

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    Sounds quite similar to mesh networks (which are at the core of the One Laptop Per Child deployment).

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    They wouldn't need to give up their AOL or other ISP Internet. It doesn't cost them any money to participate in this experimental replacement. They could be used at the same time. Even more, they could be shared, if the user desired to, although I'm sure the ISP companies they buy their bandwidth from wouldn't be happy about that. I wouldn't be surprised if Google backed starting this kind of thing up in a large metro to see what would happen.

    There are probably many ways a person could amplify their current wireless signal. Perhaps program a router with some open source software and enable it to act as a repeater, or attach to an external antennae that people could put on their roof. I don't think this would be an expensive endeavor for even a hardcore hobbyist, but their mere existence would enhance the rest of the networks reach.
    Last edited by diablo75; June 9th, 2008 at 07:45 PM. Reason: Added something...

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    They wouldn't need to give up their AOL or other ISP Internet.
    this wasn't my point. i was reffering to the fact that most people - most unfortunately - don't want to spend time with creating a free internet. they're okay with how things are, even if they don't stand so well

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    Sounds quite similar to mesh networks (which are at the core of the One Laptop Per Child deployment).
    I was just going to mention that. It is a nice idea, and analogous to the bittorrent swarm alright.

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by mykalreborn View Post
    this wasn't my point. i was reffering to the fact that most people - most unfortunately - don't want to spend time with creating a free internet. they're okay with how things are, even if they don't stand so well
    That's ok. They don't have to participate. But anyone who does will do so to reap it's potential.

    It wouldn't even have to start in neighborhoods. Suppose a bunch of people who liked the sound of this idea, decided to try out a miniature version of it in a coffee shop or public library. They would have an easy to use piece of software to initiate connections between peers, and decide what to do from there. The software would have to act as a firewall, of course, as well as have the ability to participate in file and printer sharing, or at least have the ability to enable it as an option. People could just show up to these places, openly share files if they wish, exchange ideas, and it would just be for fun. Now, it goes without saying that it will be attacked as a venue for illegal file sharing to run rampant, but let's face it. This kind of network is going to become very easy to establish soon, with the right software, and these activities that which may or may not be illegal will simply continue on in much the same manner as it always has. In addition, people will be able to host controversial information on their own web servers.

    So, that's one big feature that needs to be exploited while I'm thinking about it: Web hosting. The reason your cable or DSL Internet provider limit your upload speed to something like 30 to 60 KBs, is because they don't want you to host a website on their network using up their hosting bandwidth without getting anything extra. Because, most people who want to host websites do so in the best interests of owning and running a business; they're self-employed perhaps. And they want to host their own website from their own computer, or one other in the home. Making this easy to do would not take much work at all, I don't think. People could host their own content. And that could be anything from a small web page with family photos, to the next YouTube or Myspace.

  8. #8
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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    you have some interesting ideas... but there is a saying:"int theory both practice and theory are equal, but in practice they are completly different" (read this in a sig on these forums )

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    I actually had this exact same idea (except that the routers could be pre-made some day). But I was stumped at the idea of safety. Why would anyone risk their files going to someone else rougher, or allowing someone to send a file via you.

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    Re: Free internet. As in, "Free Beer" AND "Freedom"

    Quote Originally Posted by TBOL3 View Post
    I actually had this exact same idea (except that the routers could be pre-made some day). But I was stumped at the idea of safety. Why would anyone risk their files going to someone else rougher, or allowing someone to send a file via you.
    I'm not sure of a really good answer, but I could ask another question in reply:

    Why do people use Skype? I mean, when you look at how it works, you would probably wonder why people use it.

    Edit:

    I wanted to add in the following. I have this going in more than one forum on the internet, elsewhere, and someone said, "But bandwidth is cheap. Why bother?"

    I replied:

    Bandwidth is NOT cheap. Look at what you pay for the following:

    DSL - Starts at 13 bucks a month for 1.5 Mbps.
    Cable - Starts at 40 bucks a month (where I live, anyway) for 4 to 5 Mbps. You can pay more and get up to 9 Mbps. And I've even heard of services that can get you about 14 Mbps to your home...but I don't know if it's cable, or something else.

    I'm not really placing emphasis on the money right now, but would ask that you look at the bandwidth being sold; the Mbps. Now, let's take a look at something else.

    Your standard Wireless 802.1n-Draft router is able to both send and receive data simultaneously without interference at a rate of no less then 520 Mbps. 520 Mbps vs. your standard 4~5 Mbps sold to you for 40 bucks a month...when you can buy a wireless N router for a one time fee of about 100 bucks (and dropping fast), which could have some sort of special software built into, and if not the router, than the Wireless N enabled PC that connect to the router on the fly if it needs to, or to some other wireless network. That is a HUGE!!!!!!! HUGE!!!!!!!! difference in speed. THAT should be incentive enough, I think. Imagine trying to BUY 520 Mbps from the cable company or AT&T! That's an enormous amount of money. They'd probably have to hook you up with their broker or whoever they buy their own bandwidth from.

    So, there is a huge amount of potential. And wireless networks are continuing to get faster. Imagine a city filled with these kinds of devices. You might even pitch it as a municipal project, sponsored and paid for by tax dollars. "Hey everyone. We're giving you a free wireless router, which will connect you to the Internet 100% free. Try it!" The details about how it works, that's yet to be hashed out. But I think it will work. I'm glad I'm getting feedback about this idea.

    The city might also procure it's own wireless transmitters that is also connected to the real Internet. That one transmitter could either serve the entire wireless mesh, or you could setup more at a very low cost, and do it all legally.

    If you look at what the Internet is, how it's built, and how it's maintained, you aren't really looking at anything special. Just a bunch of computers and a lot of copper or fiber wires hooking they all together. But there is no reason why that copper or fiber connection couldn't gradually be replaced with a wireless mesh infrastructure, or at least go half and half somehow. The ultimate goal is to find a way to establish global, cost free communication. Video Phones, perhaps a replacement for your cell phone, Internet, the whole shebang. It would just take time to build up, and nowhere near as much money as we spend on, say, war.
    Last edited by diablo75; April 4th, 2007 at 01:54 AM. Reason: Added more

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