Newbie Support

[emsyr]

I believe there is an issue here we have to see.

PC users that uses Windows for years, are trying an other - new to them - OS (Linux) and in specific the Ubuntu - because of many reasons. Some because of its free software and open source filosophy, some to see how it's like, some because they' ve heard it's more stable and secure etc. etc.

All of us (cause I'm one of them) ought to have in mind that we are going to install new OS and not a Windows clone. This means research on the Internet, reading, and trying, trying, trying. I myself installed tenths of times Ubuntu to finally solve all the problems I had and come up to the point that suits me. Before that, i tried a lot of other linux-based OS's to see what they look like.

We must not wait that after one or two or three installations we are going to have the same usage we had after working years and years on Windows.

According to the documentation, I believe (from my experience) that after a few hours of careful reading in official Ubuntu site's documentation we'll find all the appropriate information to make a first initiative installation. After that, we may continue to find out Ubuntu's usability, benefits and potential problems of course. Answers to common problems are already given in official documentation. If not, we' ll find out how to find them in other resources, forums and finally how to post bugs.

All I'm trying to say here is that, in my opinion, there is no magic way to have a new OS installed immediately, by a snap of hands. There are tools on the Internet to help us, experienced people to support us but we must give some effort ourselves.

After all, how did we learn how to use everything? By spending time on it (and sometimes hard time). After a few months of using Ubuntu I personally have find out how to benefit from it, and have stopped using Windows.

Have a lot of other thinks to say, but I'll shut up for the time being. Thanx.

[23meg]

Okay. So if there was a greater abundance of excellent documentation and it was easier for them to access those documentations, less will ask simple questions, right?

Not exactly, some of the reasons being:

1) The kind of people in question don't view the net as a somehow structured and searchable accumulation of information, but rather as an extension of their computers that lets them send email, chat with friends, so on; thus they'll prefer direct dialog and hand holding to searching for existing information and resort to it whenever possible, not caring one bit about the overhead and what it costs others, which brings us to..

2) They're selfish. All they care about is their problem getting solved, not their problem getting solved in a manner that causes the least possible bother to the community that delivers the software they're using, which brings us to..

3) They mostly don't come from a background of participatory society, thus aren't aware of the importance of having a commons that is open to all parties, which all parties must contribute to and take care of, and from which all parties benefit. They just care about the benefit part, and that is benefit for themselves.

4) They don't have time and patience. The fact that they've even decided to install a Linux based OS in favor of Windows or OSX is enough of a deviation from the status quo and enough of a costly quest that, at the time of asking a question, has almost depleted their attention span, willingness and available free time to dedicate to such a job. Thus they want the easiest, quickest, cure-it-all fix, not the most socially or technically viable one.

As long as the reasons behind these remain, so will the disposition of these people that we resent; not just in online communities but in other areas in life as well.

[koenn]

well put. May sound harsh (to some) - but true

[K.Mandla]

Wow. 23meg hit that one right on the head. Nicely put, even if it is tough to admit.

[meng]

Yes, more considered and eloquent a thesis than I could ever manage on this subject.

[emsyr]

Yes. An honest, to the point, and very true explanation from 23meg, of why many users act like everything must be on their hand the same time they ask for it.

However, I believe that experienced users ought to give a try to help inexperienced ones and lead them to the knowledge of how you get help, how you give help, what Internet is, how you can use it, what a forum is, how to search for answers and in general how to participate in the word wide info-society.

Don't forget that each one of us has grown up in a different environment - country, city, family, friends, school, financial funds make someone to behave and act in a complete different way from another. It's upon us (permit me to include myself) to show new users that there other, more constructive, ways to use the tool called PC than to send an e-mail, or browse a web page only.

On any occasion, not every person walks on forward in his life. When we decide to give it a try we have a gain for ourselves. When we don't, never mind, there are more lives to come!!!

[wersdaluv]

Not exactly, some of the reasons being:

1) The kind of people in question don't view the net as a somehow structured and searchable accumulation of information, but rather as an extension of their computers that lets them send email, chat with friends, so on; thus they'll prefer direct dialog and hand holding to searching for existing information and resort to it whenever possible, not caring one bit about the overhead and what it costs others, which brings us to..

2) They're selfish. All they care about is their problem getting solved, not their problem getting solved in a manner that causes the least possible bother to the community that delivers the software they're using, which brings us to..

3) They mostly don't come from a background of participatory society, thus aren't aware of the importance of having a commons that is open to all parties, which all parties must contribute to and take care of, and from which all parties benefit. They just care about the benefit part, and that is benefit for themselves.

4) They don't have time and patience. The fact that they've even decided to install a Linux based OS in favor of Windows or OSX is enough of a deviation from the status quo and enough of a costly quest that, at the time of asking a question, has almost depleted their attention span, willingness and available free time to dedicate to such a job. Thus they want the easiest, quickest, cure-it-all fix, not the most socially or technically viable one.

As long as the causes behind these remain, so will the disposition of these people that we resent; not just in online communities but in other areas in life as well.

Many are like that but I don't believe in stereotyping.

First of all, I have been posting threads to ask for comprehensive guides because I am having a hard time understanding them. For others, language is a problem; as for me, Linux literacy is the problem. I don't personally know anyone who uses Linux, I never had a background with Linux, and I have only been exposed to Linux since December 2006.

Unlike others, I am not selfish. I am here because I want to support the community of users who are here for a good cause and I have been trying to empathize with everybody.

Also, I don't have a lot of time but I have a lot of patience. People have been asking me why I should do this because they think I am just wasting time. I don't believe that Linux is a waste of time. It's here for a good cause.

What I am doing here why I am posting a thread like this is because I am being innovative. I would have survived asking every question by posting a thread but here I am, trying to know what it is that is giving us, Newbies, a hard time and how we can make things better.

It's okay if you tell me that I need to exert more time and effort. That's what I have been doing and what I am willing to do.

I am just looking for more empathy here.

[23meg]

However, I believe that experienced users ought to give a try to help inexperienced ones and lead them to the knowledge of how you get help, how you give help, what Internet is, how you can use it, what a forum is, how to search for answers and in general how to participate in the word wide info-society.

I agree; that stuff should actually be taught in schools. It is done here as well ; see the "how to help yourself" thread in my signature for an excellent example.

Many are like that but I don't believe in stereotyping.

I'm not stereotyping or generalizing all newcomers, if that's your point; I started by saying "the kind of people in question" for a reason. If all beginners who post to the forums were of that kind, this place would simply be unbearable and I wouldn't do anything to help them; it would be nearly impossible to anyway.

It's okay if you tell me that I need to exert more time and effort. That's what I have been doing and what I am willing to do.

I am just looking for more empathy here.

You yourself do deserve empathy if that's what you're doing. The same cannot be said for all newcomers, unfortunately. This is coming from someone who does answer an average of about 20 questions a week that have been asked and answered many times before by just posting a link to the appropriate thread, which the poster could have found with a search.

The thing is, the kind of unwanted behavior we're talking about isn't specific to Linux communities, or even online communities; as I and others tried to point out, it has its roots in "real life" experiences, habits and conditions. It's not something we can cure entirely with online precautions, better and easier to understand documentation, so on.

[wersdaluv]

23meg, I salute you.

Also, I love the signature.

[AndyCooll]

I don't see your point. The documentation is already there and has been pointed out in this thread. Apart from having a document written for each individual and the nuances of their individual pc's their isn't too much more that can be done.

And I don't see where more empathy could be given other than actually going over to the "newbies" house, sitting at their computer and personally fixing their problem for them. There is a forum here entitled "absolute beginner talk", where such users can post a thread about any basic issue they want ...and they do! And in turn we do the best we can to answer their query. I know from my own experience that I have repeatedly answered the same "trivial" (to me) queries hundreds of times. There is even a "search" button they could have used and saved me the time having to answer, however they don't use it. No matter, I still answer the question ...and will keep on doing so, for I know it's a "newbie" section and I am happy to help, again ...and again ...and again. And I'll happily help answer (if I can) any query any "newbie" has. Just how much more empathy do you think I can give?

After all that, all that is missing is the willingness of the "newbie" to learn. And with the best will in the world, I can't do that for them.