View Poll Results: Should binary NVidia/ATI drivers be automatically installed&activated in Ubuntu?

Voters
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  • Yes (while informing the user of the relevant issues, etc.)

    665 31.19%
  • No (such drivers can stay in a non-free repo, just like now)

    328 15.38%
  • Users should be given a choice about this during installation

    1,139 53.42%
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Thread: Poll: Binary NVidia/ATI Drivers in Ubuntu?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    128

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Wow.. that's really a shame if true...

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Beans
    5,138

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by givré View Post
    They'll install by default binary driver, what people usualy do after the install in any case.
    But then the system will alert them by a notification that there are using a non supported driver, and that they should prefer hardware that come with open source driver
    They should do exactly the opposite: install by default FOSS drivers and alert the user that binary drivers are available and they can install them if they so wish, but explaing well what the implications are.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Beans
    80

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMusicAddict View Post
    givré is completely right. Im actually at UDS/MV now. All of this is so open its crazy. If you cant be here you can listen in. There really have been sound reasons for all the decisions going on.

    Me throwing the Metal sign.
    Is this what metal heads look like nowadays? I must be stuck in the 80's. I expected more.. well.. metal. And leather. And the guy across from you? Man, you guys don't look like nerds at all! You're giving us a bad name.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Portugal , Castelo Branco
    Beans
    45
    Distro
    The Feisty Fawn Testing

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Both NVIDIA and ATI proprietary drivers will be installed by default, on Ubuntu Feisty

    What about GPL violation concerns?

    As far as i know binary drivers are usually considered NOT derivated works because are not shipped by default with the kernel, but are added by the user itself having no "redistribution" and the GPL having no effect that way, but if are shipped by default then can happen the same story of Kororaa live-cd.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kororaa...CD_and_the_GPL
    Last edited by jc87; November 9th, 2006 at 08:00 PM.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Beans
    Hidden!

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by kanem View Post
    Is this what metal heads look like nowadays? I must be stuck in the 80's. I expected more.. well.. metal. And leather. And the guy across from you? Man, you guys don't look like nerds at all! You're giving us a bad name.
    Well my leather is at home. As far as the guy in front of me goes... most of the people here are geeky (nerds with social and fashion skills), not nerds.


    New info LINK.

    As far as people who dont like it goes... get more involved in Ubuntu. YOU CAN affect change.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Milano, Italy
    Beans
    61
    Distro
    Kubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by jc87 View Post
    Both NVIDIA and ATI proprietary drivers will be installed by default, on Ubuntu Feisty

    What about GPL violation concerns?
    Someone may have said this already, but the "restricted" modules don't exist in complete form in the DEB. They're linked with the kernel at run time, when you boot, so there is no violation as they don't redistribute them linked with the kernel.
    "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Salvor Hardin in Foundation by I. Asimov
    My blog | My CC-licensed novel | Plasma FAQ maintainer

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Beans
    5,138

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by ago View Post
    They should do exactly the opposite: install by default FOSS drivers and alert the user that binary drivers are available and they can install them if they so wish, but explaing well what the implications are.
    What they are planning to do is to install the drivers and then suggest you to buy supported hardware next time... Which is not as bad as the original post implied, but a second best never the less...

    see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BinaryDriverEducation

    We include several proprietary drivers in Ubuntu by default (it is possible to install without them). We would like to do more to educate users to avoid hardware that requires such drivers in order to work with Linux. We propose a notification on login which will lead users to further information, including recommending certified hardware that does not have this problem.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    354
    Distro
    Ubuntu Karmic Koala (testing)

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by luca.b View Post
    Someone may have said this already, but the "restricted" modules don't exist in complete form in the DEB. They're linked with the kernel at run time, when you boot, so there is no violation as they don't redistribute them linked with the kernel.
    The Kororaa final word is here. Basically, even they eventually decided to remove the binary drivers, because of GPL concerns, both legal and ethical.

    It would be really strange for Ubuntu to decide that NVidia/ATI binary drivers are ok both legally and ethically. This goes against the beliefs of Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE (and even Kororaa), etc., i.e. the 'free' distributions. It would put Ubuntu closer to the 'less-free' distributions like Linspire, Mepis, etc.

    Is that what Canonical intend for Ubuntu? Is that what the Ubuntu community want?

    Personally, I vote for installing the free drivers, then asking the user after installation, if they want the binary ones.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY
    Beans
    258
    Distro
    Gutsy Gibbon Testing

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMO View Post
    He means open source, open source is being forgoten and it will get us in trouble because people are too quick to sell their freedoms for practical results instead of demanding open source drivers.
    Open source is not being forgotten. Ubuntu tries to include FOSS solutions where they will work but if they won't work then proprietary has to be there. The simple truth is that neither nVidia nor ATI will ever do FOSS 3D, in their case the software makes all the difference as hardware is pretty much the same. Also Ubuntu is a desktop distro, so they try to give the customer what he/she wants. Also open source isn't always the best solution. For instance I have a tablet that is now completely on Windows because while the drivers for the tablet are there, it lacks any necessary software (at least I didn't find it) that would allow me to calibrate the tablet. An OS has to be useable first and ideological second. Those who have an issue with closed drivers being a part of the install have other options.

    It would be really strange for Ubuntu to decide that NVidia/ATI binary drivers are ok both legally and ethically. This goes against the beliefs of Debian, Fedora, OpenSUSE (and even Kororaa), etc., i.e. the 'free' distributions. It would put Ubuntu closer to the 'less-free' distributions like Linspire, Mepis, etc.
    Ubuntu is not Debian and Debian is crazy, they wouldn't put the Firefox icon in because they didn't like the license for it.
    Fedora and OpenSuSE are completely different beasts, both of them are basically free beta testing for RHEL and SLED. So yes neither will include non-free stuff in their free distro's as they need some kind of a differentiation. Also unlike RHEL and SLED, Ubuntu isn't charging you for the added functionality that neither OpenSuSE or Fedora have.

    Personally, I vote for installing the free drivers, then asking the user after installation, if they want the binary ones.
    There are two problems with this, and you would know it if you read the spec.
    1) It would be impossible to get all the pretty compositing stuff without the binary drivers enabled by default. This basically means that you need to know how to turn it on.
    2) There have been countless complaints on the forum about Ubuntu being dependant on high speed internet for just about anything. Installing drivers by default remedies that issue.

    Make no mistake Ubuntu is competing with SLED, Mandriva, RHEL, Vista and OS X. It is not competing against Debian and Fedora, so it has to have provide things that others do. I don't understand why people are so against it, in my experience the FOSS NV drivers aren't even usable in regular 2D (artifacts and static) and ATI ones don't have GPU throttling (real bad for battery life on laptops). In fact there isn't a single full open driver that can do 3D that is required by compositing. Even the new Intel video driver includes a binary blob for certain things.
    Since I get asked alot, I am originally from Ukraine but am Russian by nationality. My nick means specter in Russian.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Beans
    354
    Distro
    Ubuntu Karmic Koala (testing)

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by prizrak View Post
    There are two problems with this, and you would know it if you read the spec.
    First off, I did read the spec
    1) It would be impossible to get all the pretty compositing stuff without the binary drivers enabled by default. This basically means that you need to know how to turn it on.
    If the user is asked after installation whether they want binary drivers (which is what I suggested), then they can also be asked at the same time whether they want AIGLX, Beryl, etc. This gives everyone the option for those things, but keeps the default Ubuntu 'free'.
    2) There have been countless complaints on the forum about Ubuntu being dependant on high speed internet for just about anything. Installing drivers by default remedies that issue.
    I never said it should be downloaded separately. I agree, Ubuntu should not require internet access to install. What I said was that the user should be ASKED after installation whether to use the binary drivers - which could be on the same CD.

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