View Poll Results: Should binary NVidia/ATI drivers be automatically installed&activated in Ubuntu?

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  • Yes (while informing the user of the relevant issues, etc.)

    665 31.19%
  • No (such drivers can stay in a non-free repo, just like now)

    328 15.38%
  • Users should be given a choice about this during installation

    1,139 53.42%
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Thread: Poll: Binary NVidia/ATI Drivers in Ubuntu?

  1. #101
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    Mar 2005
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    Gutsy Gibbon Testing

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMO View Post
    The difference is that if anything went wrong the community could fix open sourced drivers.

    if nVidia went bust we'd be in the fecies.
    I guess I will make this my last response. nVidia going bust does not automagically remove all the drivers you have installed. It also means that no new cards will be released so you won't need newer drivers. It would in turn mean that the community can reverse engineer everything (not to mention that bigger Linux distro's with money could buy their IP). In a 2 years after nVidia goes bust you will not be able to find a GFX card based on their reference design.
    Since I get asked alot, I am originally from Ukraine but am Russian by nationality. My nick means specter in Russian.

  2. #102
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    Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorMO View Post
    The difference is that if anything went wrong the community could fix open sourced drivers.

    if nVidia went bust we'd be in the fecies.
    Gah, NVIDIA is going quite well now, and we still can't make a decent driver!

    Personally, I think the user should decide what to install on his computer. Because that's freedom, where I am concerned. The freedom to do what I like on my pc, not the developer's freedom to do what they like on my pc. That's Microsoft, Sony, and Apple, not Linux.

    Now, about the "root" debacle, Ubuntu already solved that with sudo, so why open that can of worms? The point is "Should people be allowed to install binary drivers by default, Y/N?" I say Y, and the OS should make it as easy as it can to let me do what I want. Currently, if I give a noob an Ubuntu CD, I am not sure whether he will know how to use Synaptic to download nvidia drivers. And whether he will be bothered to check on the internet/google is another matter entirely. And Nvidia's installation program is not as userfriendly as they can make it, neither.

  3. #103
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    Mar 2005
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    Ubuntu 12.04 Precise Pangolin

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by prizrak View Post
    2 years after nVidia goes bust you will not be able to find a GFX card based on their reference design.
    Sorry for stepping in late. One minor kernel release after nVidia has gone bankrupt their drivers might no longer work. One X.org release and their drivers won't work.

    While I understand nearly 100% of nVidia users install the proprietary driver as soon as they can (ATi X1000 users are in a worse position, as their option is vesa), I also understand that Beryl, compiz or anything 3D related is not critical for system operation. You can still use X. It is *very* different from network cards (wireless or otherwise). Accepting fglrx or nvidia by default is re-entering their game. And won't convince AMD to release specs, code or anything.
    Now on... Thinkpad T400

    Latest news for radeon and/or radeonhd:
    ATI R600g Gains Mip-Map, Face Culling Support, 30th July 2010

  4. #104
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    Aug 2005
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    Boston (British Expat)
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    Ubuntu

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Personally, I think the user should decide what to install on his computer. Because that's freedom, where I am concerned. The freedom to do what I like on my pc, not the developer's freedom to do what they like on my pc. That's Microsoft, Sony, and Apple, not Linux.
    At the expense of everyone else in the community. and it doesn't mean as programmers we have to care if anything goes wrong. as far as we're concerned you turned your back of the free software developers so you should go buy your friends at xcorp a new merc should your computer have issues.

    Programmers are free too, and ditching people who creating the software you use for gratis will not put you in a good position in the future. unless you want to become a programmer yourself which is fine.
    42 is not an anwser, it's an error code. the universe is saying 'Error 42: meaning to universe not found'
    Programmer, Teacher and Artist

  5. #105
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    Jun 2005
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    198
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    The Feisty Fawn Testing

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by chaosgeisterchen View Post
    It will be. Intel and ATI cards up to the X800 are now OOTB 3D-capable.
    mmm

    you mean that my x700 ati card has 3d acceleration with xorg's radeon driver?

    thanks

  6. #106
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    Jun 2006
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    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by prizrak View Post
    This is going in circles so I'm just going to make my final point. The choice here is the following:
    1) Stay 100% ideologically pure and risk going the HURD way (I mean Linux in general not just Ubuntu), with no 3rd party giving a damn about the OS and having to reverse engineer just about every little piece of hardware.
    2) Allow for certain compromises and gain a significant enough market share to make a difference.

    Simple fact is that with wider adoption of Linux you will see more 3rd party support and those 3rd parties might not be interested in FOSS ideology and will provide products based on their own "ideology". I also believe that once Linux achieves a significant enough market share it can force ISV/OEM's to open up their specs as it stands right now we can turn away from closed source and achieve nothing.
    How the HURD comes in I have no idea but you sure like to throw it out a lot. Sounds like you know a lot about the hurd. Oh wait, the HURD is still a work inprogress an last time i checked did not even have a sound system so why we use that to discuss binary drivers is beyond me but feel free.

    I think the key difference is this - I do not care about market share. I did not choose linux because it was the latest cool thing. I am not some kid trying to show everyone how l33t I am because I run linux.

    Why would a wider market share allow anyone to force open the specs/drivers if everyone is already running the closed drivers. Now if we just keep on with out ideology, the marketplace is already moving toward linux adoption, then the big companies will realize either they play ball our way and benefit from it or they continue playing it their way. Realize that "their way" will fail when nobody wants their cards because they do not have a open driver.

    I personally think Nvidia/ATI have played you'll like a harp. I figure they sit around joking about the pact they made to never provide open drivers. As long as one of them doesn't then their is no reason for the competition to match it. They think that with the binary drivers they can continue dropping support for older cards, forcing hardware upgrades and keep raking in piles of cash. (but that my just be my paranoia so excuse me)

  7. #107
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    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by prizrak View Post
    Perhaps to you or me it makes no difference whatsoever (yes it does get quite annoying after a bit) but for someone who is looking to switch from Windows it might. Even look at it this way "Vista can do this, but Ubuntu can't. Who knows what else it's missing, I don't want to try it". See the issue?
    If that is their criteria for evaluating linux then I would rather they stayed with windows. I choose linux for what it offers not how it compares to something else. I don't want a OS that is just trying to be a clone for the sake of being a clone.

  8. #108
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    Ubuntu 7.10 Gutsy Gibbon

    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    At the expense of everyone else in the community. and it doesn't mean as programmers we have to care if anything goes wrong. as far as we're concerned you turned your back of the free software developers so you should go buy your friends at xcorp a new merc should your computer have issues.
    Don't get me wrong. I respect free software developers, otherwise I wouldn't be using Linux. But I also need to have functionality. Why do we have to be 100% one way or the other? This is not a religion. This is not...If you're not with me, you're against me. Why do we have to turn the GPL into a damn religion? I like the philosophy, but I hate the zealots.

    Yep, I want to become a programmer myself, and as such that is why I like opensource, because I can see the code.
    However, I also believe in compromises. If it is impossible due to market conditions to release opensource code, then remain closed source. NVIDIA cannot afford to have it's code viewable by ATI, unless it wants its secrets to be out in the open and vice versa.

    Now, saying, but if NVIDIA goes bust..and...bla bla bla...that is just freakin pessimism, imho.

  9. #109
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    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    Quote Originally Posted by deanlinkous View Post
    If that is their criteria for evaluating linux then I would rather they stayed with windows. I choose linux for what it offers not how it compares to something else. I don't want a OS that is just trying to be a clone for the sake of being a clone.
    aye, but without closed source drivers, it doesn't offer that much if you like gaming , and then you have to use either Windows or a console, both of which are closed source.

    With Windows one can do a lot of things.. I also want Linux to do a lot of things. And you have no right whatsoever to judge a guy for chosing Linux over Windows or vice versa.

  10. #110
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    Oct 2006
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    Re: Binary video drivers to ship by default in Feisty

    I don't mind including those nVidia propetary drivers in Ubuntu (but I think that nVidia and ATi should make those drivers opensource and respect Linux community at least a bit...), because nothing works without them, and opensource graphic drivers are s**t... But I do mind built in XGL/Compiz!!! I don't want neither of them...

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