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Thread: Best way to install packages

  1. #21
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    Quote Originally Posted by guiverc View Post
    My preference is to use the default version in Ubuntu repositories... being a desktop user.

    One reason for doing it that way, is if I break my system due to problem/mistake, I know I can pretty quickly non-destructively re-install it and continue working...

    I talk about the non-destructive re-install here , as that install method is something I use myself.

    eg. I'm using Ubuntu development release currently; which is an unstable system where problems can occur from time to time... last time was August 2023 when two of my five screens became dark (no image) due to a kernel change.. Strange things like that can happen on unstable, so I monitored it, next day the issue was present on the daily so it was bug report with my install being mentioned... Within a week the issue was resolved on the dailies, however the issue remained on my installed system.. and I couldn't find a fix to my installed system... thus when bored of it, I just non-destructively re-installed the system... This involved ensuring my backup of data was good, then just re-install from the latest daily, reboot & then confirm the system worked as I expected... ie. my data AND manually installed apps were all there.... I was back fully operational in under 15 minutes.

    It's an easy fix option as I see it, as I like being able to re-install and system, not lose my data, and have my manually installed or additional apps auto-reinstall automatically.

    The install method I'm talking about assumes its Ubuntu repository software, and I've actually had it re-install snap packages too (but also had it fail to install snap packages, unsure of why its not always reliable as I've not detected the pattern), but I know it won't work with flatpak, appimage, and no QA is done with any 3rd party software.

    Some issues with the type of install were detected in QA of noble (24.04), which haven't been fixed yet, so the install method isn't available on ISOs using `ubuntu-desktop-installer` for 24.04 & 24.10, but it still works on ISOs using the `calamares` installer.. and the hope is the bug in ubuntu-desktop-provision will get fixed, thus forced format can be removed allowing it to with ubuntu-desktop-installer too.

    Hi guiverc! Thank you very much for all the information and for sharing your experience.
    Although im a new Ubuntu user and many things are still unclear to me, i found it very interesting.

    I would like you to elaborate a little more on your experience in August 2023, how you solved it, the steps to follow...

    If you think this isnt the right thread for it, we can make another thread.

    Thank you very much for the information and have a nice day.

  2. #22
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    Lubuntu Development Release

    Re: Best way to install packages

    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci2 View Post
    I would like you to elaborate a little more on your experience in August 2023, how you solved it, the steps to follow...
    I'm not sure what you're after... My posts says I'm on the development release, which most of the time is Lubuntu... The development release is where all work occurs, and thus it changes regularly, and things can go wrong, meaning problems can be encountered, which is why it's referred to as unstable.

    I update my system at least three times per day, thus hoping I get fewer updates on any particular update, as if problems occur, I have fewer packages to explore as to the possible cause. I'm currently running Lubuntu 25.04 with the LXQt 2.1 desktop, the desktop itself was only packaged about three days ago in this case, though thus far I've not noticed any problems.

    In my example, on reboot I noted two of my five displays were black in that they were getting no images from the PC... three of the displays connected to one video card were still working, but the two connected to one card were gone. As my updates get packages BEFORE the daily ISOs are created, I waited until those packages I was running hit the next daily ISO, and tested it on a newer zsync'd (or updated) ISO, the reason for this was that my own machine had my own configs that were heavily modified, where the daily ISO contained none of those modified configs... so when it encountered the same issue, I knew it was related to changed code & not my configs...

    In the following days, the problem continued; however in time the daily ISOs no longer had the issue when booted on my hardware, but my installed system was still suffering with only three of my five displays functional... so I went search for what was different (hadn't updated etc) on my installed system versus the newly built ISOs I was testing when I tried the daily ISOs... After a number of days looking for it, I wanted my system back to fully-operational, so gave up looking & just re-installed the system, meaning the issue was overwritten by a new install.

    The install was described in the link I provided, ie.

    - the installer notes my installed packages (those the system marks as 'manually-installed', or those I'd installed myself)
    - erase system directories
    - installs the system from the installation media
    - then downloads the noted earlier 'manually installed' packages I had on my system from Ubuntu repositories (ie. why I prefer using Ubuntu repository software)
    - asks me to reboot; all of which did NOT alter any config/data file on my system...

    ie. on reboot; my expectation is my system operates just as it did before; as if nothing occurred... Sure if I go look in `/var/log/installer/mediainfo` it'll show the install media wasn't whatever ISO I'd originally used, but showed the date I mentioned (20230829 OR 29th August daily), and the dates of files in the system directories all show the day/time I re-installed, ie. metadata on the file-system & some system files show a new install, but as far as I'm concerned the system acts as if it wasn't re-installed; but my wanted aim was I would have 5 displays back functional - which is what I got...

    The re-install did not require me to touch any of my backups, nor restore any file... I achieved what I wanted; a non-destructive re-install of the system, in effect all system code was erased & replaced by code from the ISO I'd installed from, or re-downloaded from Ubuntu repositories, and none of my configs/data was touched.

    If you're wanting to understand it; I'll suggest you re-read the askubuntu link I provided, or if you need more, follow the link there back to a Lubuntu testcase exploration, as it was a testcase Lubuntu tested for from 19.04 thru 24.04, and in the Lubuntu link I tried to explain it for other Quality Assurance testers.
    Last edited by guiverc; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:11 PM. Reason: attempted to clarify wording; lxqt 2.1 link

  3. #23
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    The "problem" may come when that software isnt in the official Ubuntu repositories.
    Yes and more software is now being packaged by their developers only in a "universal" format such as Flatpak. To have a .deb or .rpm package, a human maintainer must be found.

    Personally I use quite a few Flatpak. I find they are as good as the .deb version. Just a fast. The applications do need to have the supporting runtimes installed which will take up additional space. But the runtimes are shared, so many Flatpak applications can use the same runtime.

    On an LTS install, which can be used (with Pro support) for 10 years, you may want newer versions of some software at some point. Flatpak is the answer to that.

    At some point in your Linux education, I suggest you look into Flatpaks. Full explanations of everything Flatpak can be found on the Internet. For example, Flatpak.org

    I pick Flatpaks over Snaps, but I do use the Firefox snap in Ubuntu. It used to be slow in launching, but no more. In some cases, a snap package may be the only way to get something. I would use it if that were the case.

  4. #24
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    Quote Originally Posted by guiverc View Post
    I'm not sure what you're after... My posts says I'm on the development release, which most of the time is Lubuntu... The development release is where all work occurs, and thus it changes regularly, and things can go wrong, meaning problems can be encountered, which is why it's referred to as unstable.

    I update my system at least three times per day, thus hoping I get fewer updates on any particular update, as if problems occur, I have fewer packages to explore as to the possible cause. I'm currently running Lubuntu 25.04 with the LXQt 2.1 desktop, the desktop itself was only packaged about three days ago in this case, though thus far I've not noticed any problems.

    In my example, on reboot I noted two of my five displays were black in that they were getting no images from the PC... three of the displays connected to one video card were still working, but the two connected to one card were gone. As my updates get packages BEFORE the daily ISOs are created, I waited until those packages I was running hit the next daily ISO, and tested it on a newer zsync'd (or updated) ISO, the reason for this was that my own machine had my own configs that were heavily modified, where the daily ISO contained none of those modified configs... so when it encountered the same issue, I knew it was related to changed code & not my configs...

    In the following days, the problem continued; however in time the daily ISOs no longer had the issue when booted on my hardware, but my installed system was still suffering with only three of my five displays functional... so I went search for what was different (hadn't updated etc) on my installed system versus the newly built ISOs I was testing when I tried the daily ISOs... After a number of days looking for it, I wanted my system back to fully-operational, so gave up looking & just re-installed the system, meaning the issue was overwritten by a new install.

    The install was described in the link I provided, ie.

    - the installer notes my installed packages (those the system marks as 'manually-installed', or those I'd installed myself)
    - erase system directories
    - installs the system from the installation media
    - then downloads the noted earlier 'manually installed' packages I had on my system from Ubuntu repositories (ie. why I prefer using Ubuntu repository software)
    - asks me to reboot; all of which did NOT alter any config/data file on my system...

    ie. on reboot; my expectation is my system operates just as it did before; as if nothing occurred... Sure if I go look in `/var/log/installer/mediainfo` it'll show the install media wasn't whatever ISO I'd originally used, but showed the date I mentioned (20230829 OR 29th August daily), and the dates of files in the system directories all show the day/time I re-installed, ie. metadata on the file-system & some system files show a new install, but as far as I'm concerned the system acts as if it wasn't re-installed; but my wanted aim was I would have 5 displays back functional - which is what I got...

    The re-install did not require me to touch any of my backups, nor restore any file... I achieved what I wanted; a non-destructive re-install of the system, in effect all system code was erased & replaced by code from the ISO I'd installed from, or re-downloaded from Ubuntu repositories, and none of my configs/data was touched.

    If you're wanting to understand it; I'll suggest you re-read the askubuntu link I provided, or if you need more, follow the link there back to a Lubuntu testcase exploration, as it was a testcase Lubuntu tested for from 19.04 thru 24.04, and in the Lubuntu link I tried to explain it for other Quality Assurance testers.
    Hi guiverc! You can be sure that i will listen to you and read carefully and with interest what you have told me.
    Thank you very much for sharing your experience and information.

  5. #25
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    Nov 2024
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis N View Post
    Yes and more software is now being packaged by their developers only in a "universal" format such as Flatpak. To have a .deb or .rpm package, a human maintainer must be found.

    Personally I use quite a few Flatpak. I find they are as good as the .deb version. Just a fast. The applications do need to have the supporting runtimes installed which will take up additional space. But the runtimes are shared, so many Flatpak applications can use the same runtime.

    On an LTS install, which can be used (with Pro support) for 10 years, you may want newer versions of some software at some point. Flatpak is the answer to that.

    At some point in your Linux education, I suggest you look into Flatpaks. Full explanations of everything Flatpak can be found on the Internet. For example, Flatpak.org

    I pick Flatpaks over Snaps, but I do use the Firefox snap in Ubuntu. It used to be slow in launching, but no more. In some cases, a snap package may be the only way to get something. I would use it if that were the case.
    Good afternoon Dennis! However, in this same thread i read comments that are not very favorable to Snap and Flatpak, this puts us in a difficult situation hahaha

    What do you think?
    Thank you very much for your message.

  6. #26
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    Hi everyone. I have been trying to install both Brave browser and Obsidian.

    Instructions for installing Brave:
    https://brave.com/linux/

    Instructions for installing Obsidian:
    https://obsidian.md/download

    As you can see, neither of them are available to install via APT, which makes me not quite sure what to do.
    What do you think about this?

    Honestly, given my lack of knowledge, this is all quite frustrating.
    Sorry if i repeat myself too much or if these are stupid or obvious questions.
    Thanks to everyone for your help.

  7. #27
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    Xubuntu Development Release

    Re: Best way to install packages

    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci2 View Post
    Hi everyone. I have been trying to install both Brave browser and Obsidian.

    Instructions for installing Brave:
    https://brave.com/linux/

    Instructions for installing Obsidian:
    https://obsidian.md/download

    As you can see, neither of them are available to install via APT, which makes me not quite sure what to do.
    What do you think about this?

    Honestly, given my lack of knowledge, this is all quite frustrating.
    Sorry if i repeat myself too much or if these are stupid or obvious questions.
    Thanks to everyone for your help.
    Nothing wrong with either of the 2 choices you show For Brave or Obsidian (appimage)
    There is no dumb questions we weren't born knowing any of this, only Dumb replies.
    "When you practice gratefulness, there is a sense of respect toward others." >>Dalai Lama

  8. #28
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    Quote Originally Posted by 1fallen View Post
    Nothing wrong with either of the 2 choices you show For Brave or Obsidian (appimage)
    There is no dumb questions we weren't born knowing any of this, only Dumb replies.
    So you think the best way to run Obsidian is through an appimage?
    However Brave doesnt allow this option, what would you do?

    Thank you very much for your help and empathy.

  9. #29
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    Xubuntu 24.04 Noble Numbat

    Re: Best way to install packages

    In fact, if you look more carefully at the instructions for installing Brave you will see tat you first have to add the repositories for Brave to your sources and then you do actually install it with apt.

    Obsidian you will see is an appimage so is not really installed at all, it is simply a single executable file like an archive with all necessary dependencies, as already described before in this thread.

  10. #30
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    Re: Best way to install packages

    Install brave the way it was meant to be installed, you will need those instructions as presented in the link.

    Those folks (Brave) know what they are doing, and will keep you updated with fix's along with new features.

    Not all PPA's are bad for our systems, but that takes time for you to get to place where you trust any outside sources you add to the mix.

    The Obsidian as a debian.deb is all ready discussed very well here.
    "When you practice gratefulness, there is a sense of respect toward others." >>Dalai Lama

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