The Future of the Forum

[coffeecat]

First – apologies to all the forum staff who have contributed to an earlier conversation, that this has taken so long. Advancing years, real life, and occasional health issues have taken their toll and have distracted me. And apologies to all forum members because this conversation should really have started weeks ago. But here it is, and there you are.

So…

Late last year the forum admins (what few are left of us) had a conversation about the future of the forum and, indeed, whether it has much of a one. In essence, there are two big issues:

1 Declining Membership. Although the forum continues to provide a valuable resource for those few still seeking help, and there still exists a core of dedicated helpers, it is a shadow of its former self. We could debate the causes of this until the cows some home and pigs start to fly, but that would achieve little, except perhaps contribute even more hot air to global warming. So let’s look forwards rather than backwards, and see what needs to be done or what can be done.

Related to this, it also has to be said that we have lost several members of the volunteer moderating staff over the last few years, not least from the Forum Council (forum admins) all of whom will be departing in due course.

2 The vBulletin software. We are currently running on a past end-of-life version. We are kept secure by means of the WAF, which itself causes problems, and the combination of vBulletin and SSO was never a match made in heaven.

So why is that a problem? Why not simply upgrade to a newer version?

More than a few years ago we upgraded from vBulletin v3 to v4. It was a time-consuming nightmare - not the upgrade itself, but the way all our bespoke templates, configurations, themes, artwork, etc, etc were broken in the hinterland between v3 and v4, and had to be rebuilt from the ground up by several dedicated volunteers over a period of many weeks. This will certainly happen again. Besides, we do not have the number of people with familiarity of adminCP and, more importantly, all our “bespoke templates, configurations, themes, artwork, etc, etc” who would be needed to do this work.

In my humble, but informed, opinion an upgrade of the current software is not a viable option.

So where does that leave us? Do we simply let the forum die? Do we re-direct people needing help to AskUbuntu? Do we find enough (masochistic!) people to nurse the needed upgrade of vBulletin? Do we lobby Canonical/The Community Council/whoever to build a new forum on better software?

Here are some comments made by forum staff during our recent conversation:

1. Askubuntu v forums. Many prefer or need a forum environment rather than Stack Exchange. The two are very different.
2. IRC/chat is not a suitable substitute.
3. A forum is a useful or essential venue for non-developer users testing a development version.
4. We need to have arguments in place in case the Community Council takes the easy option of retiring the forum and simply directing users to AskUbuntu.
5. Is the option of building a completely new forum on more up to date software a viable one?
6. Several currently active staff members have expressed a willingness to take on leadership roles should a reborn forum be built on new software, or to continue for as long as it is possible that the current software can be kept going.
7. What about archiving and making available all the material here?
8. Could Ubuntu Discourse be persuaded to launch a technical support section? Note: Ubuntu Discourse currently states:
   
   

   The Ubuntu Discourse is not a space for technical support. However, the community has a number of platforms where you can seek and provide support.

@staff, if I have omitted or garbled anything do please post. And @membership-at-large, do please post if you have anything to say. This is your forum. What do you want?
As always, when posting please respect the forum Code of Conduct

We ... want this to be a place where community can develop and we can enjoy one another's company. To achieve this, we strive to maintain an atmosphere that can be enjoyed by all and we ask all members of the community to be respectful at all times. This means please use etiquette and politeness. Treat people with respect.

Footnote: A few notes to counteract some common misconceptions about the forum staff: moderators, super-moderators and admins. We are all volunteers. None of us are employed by Canonical. The Forum Council consists of the admins; the FC’s functions are described here. The forum admins are not sysadmins. Server admin is the responsibility of Canonical.

[Perfect Storm]

Tough call. But it's the same across the web, the "old" forum form are shrinking for other alternatives. And to be frank Canonical has always seen UF as the ugly stepchild and nursed Stackexhange instead.
Personally I would be sad to see UF to be shut down. If it's lack of staff members, you can always call me.

[yatski]

I have to say I would be very sad to see this forum to be shut down.. People here are so helpful.

This has always been suitable place for ask help and pasting code to here is much easier than Stack Exchange...

Maybe this forum could be archived?

[compilebunny]

If you do decide to shut the forum down, please keep a static archive online so that answers to / discussion of old questions can be found. Its incredible how similar problems / solutions reoccur over the decades.

[Dennis N]

Someone can check this, but I have been surprised that this forum is not mentioned as a place to get help when someone installs Ubuntu. Instead, the installer mentions Ask Ubuntu as a place to get help. New users could be steered here if the Ubuntu Forum at least got a mention.

[tea for one]

I have to say I would be very sad to see this forum to be shut down.. People here are so helpful.
This has always been suitable place for ask help and pasting code to here is much easier than Stack Exchange...
Maybe this forum could be archived?

I agree wholeheartedly with these three thoughts.
Archive the forum completely.
Start a new forum with modern software (assuming that such a beast exists)
Ask members to re-register - interested users will oblige and, hopefully, the huge membership list will be culled organically.

[Autodave]

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with the forum that needs fixing. People today just aren't using desktops and laptops like they used to.....everything is done on their phones.

For many years, I have built both desktops and laptops from parts collected from old computers. While these units are by no means "state of the art" machines, they are quite capable of web searching and email reading. In the past, I would have a waiting list of people who needed a unit. Nowadays, I am scrapping the lesser machines because I simply do not have room to keep them all. And no one wants them anymore! Only the older folks want them....the younger ones do not want any part of them......they would rather do everything on a 3" screen rather than a 19" or larger screen. Why? I have no idea.

Please do not change anything.....there is not a problem with the forum,,,,,the problem is a change of the culture preferring cell phones: the kids today grow up with them and are used to them and, for many, can't do anything without their cell phone in their hand.

PS: if you need any help here, I am retired and available.

[Old Jimma]

Had I known about this, I would have volunteered for something. I'm not a very well informed user, but have been arround since 8.04 or something like that.

I don't feel I have much expertise in Ubuntu/linux stuff, but could do simple things that may not require expertise. I'm pretty devoted to Ubuntu and grateful for the forums.

If there is a job that is a no-brainer and doesn't require much linux/Ubuntu knowledge, let me know.

Older than Rocks

[Rex Bouwense]

I was not aware that the forum was in as much trouble until I read the doom and gloom posting by coffeecat. While I have not posted or provided assistance as often as some I still try to get on daily and read the new threads and/or posts helping where I can. Perhaps I need to spend more time on line. Ubuntu Forums provides a valuable service and there is a ton of information that is still valid today.
+1 to Dennis N's post. The installer does point to Ask Ubuntu and not the Ubuntu Forums And it should do so.
What else can those of us who have no special skills other than being long time Ubuntu users do to assist the forums in staying a viable resource?

[TheFu]

Whenever there is huge technical debt, the same issues arise. This is nothing new. Sometimes the best answer is to let something die.
A static clone of the entire site would be nice, but that's harder than people realize, at least to do well.

I like UF over the other options. They all feel like data gathering platforms where data freely shared is sold along with privacy.

Ref: https://meta.stackexchange.com/legal/privacy-policy
Ref: https://discord.com/privacy
Ref: https://ubuntu.com/legal/data-privac...nity-discourse

Running forum software is hard. Maintaining a server on the internet with forum software is a challenge. Keeping all the spam out is very difficult. Spam detracts from how good a forum is. We've all seen spammy posts take over other forums. When I see obvious spam, I leave those other places.

Sometimes the correct answer is to let something die.