ok went to the Ubuntu Discourse site to keep a open mind and immediately ran into this https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/supporting-users/20
That took me back, and I was confused by that so are they saying don't ask questions???? WTH (as in what the heck)
So I slipped over to the server side on the Ubuntu Discourse and again smacked into this https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/about...r-category/738
for me their part of
Welcome to the Ubuntu Community Discourse!
This is a space for discussions around Ubuntu, the community and the projects that bring them all together. We strive to keep this a welcoming and safe place for our community and therefore follow a simple Code of Conduct.
is a load of ....... especially after those two areas.
If the forum goes to there what are the plans to modify the Discourse's behavior? To actually help users... something? nothing? or we will wait and see.
or will it be in a sub part of the Discourse area?
After all the powers that be will make a choice ... hopefully one that I might enjoy and actually learn something. I didn't see that there.
@sgt-mike, oh please. I thought this had been covered. At the moment, Ubuntu Discourse does not accommodate technical support partly because the forums here exist, and partly because end-user volunteer technical support does not sit comfortably with Ubuntu Discourse's focus at the moment. This could change if need be. If Discourse is the way to go the choice is between merging into Ubuntu Discourse, or migrating to a new instance of Discourse. This is the nature of the ongoing discussion about finding a way forward involving the Community Council. Taking offence at the way things are at the moment and ignoring the possibility of future change is hardly helpful.
I suggest you take a closer look at the preceding discussion and look for ian-weisser's posts in particular.
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I used my mod power there to edit and clarify that post. It was somebody's random opinion, not policy.
If you still have problems with that particular topic, please ping me on that platform.
It's a bit premature to talk plans. The Community Council must decide upon a path forward first. Then will come the time to plan.
But we have given it some preparatory thought over on the Discourse side. A merge, were it to occur, would be a huge change to Discourse. It would require two cultures to adapt to each other. It might require some governance changes, some category structure changes, some tag changes, and some admin & moderation changes, adopting lessons learned from other platforms, and more. That's a lot, but the Discourse side seems willing.
Last edited by ian-weisser; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:38 PM.
To speak on this from a forum user perspective, the change feels more drastic than expected. Discourse feels like an office whereas UF has filled in its forum role for sometime. It's hard to adjust to a different format. Also I'm curious how Discourse will handle perceived flaming. Flaming of course is not allowed in UF, but there have been plenty of energetic conversations. Discourse appears too sterile for such lively discussion to work.
I'm glad however that there isn't a point system... though the award system feels condescending. I can't write an introduction without first having a conversation with a bot. This security step though likely appearing innovative to staff -- is bothersome and abrasive to the end user who quickly wants to create an account and ask about VPN.
Also the security section where I'd visit the most appears to be an announcement broadcast board. I don't see anywhere to contribute unless I'm already working at Canonical.
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Please do not assume that the cultures won't change, that the moderation changes won't happens, and that Discourse cannot become a much more welcoming place.
To equate today's experience (developers without support) with the envisioned future experience (developers AND support) seems to ignore quite a bit of this thread.
Everybody hold hands and repeat what I wrote in my previous post about the needed changes:
"It would require two cultures to adapt to each other. It might require some governance changes, some category structure changes, some tag changes, and some admin & moderation changes, adopting lessons learned from other platforms, and more."
The Security Team keeps their discussions private. They do monitor that section, they do respond, and they do welcome community members with a demonstrated high signal-to-noise ratio onto the team and into their private space.
Many teams went private years ago due to louts noising up their workplace and heaping internet abuse upon them. It's taken a lot of effort to draw many of them back to using Discourse so the community can constructively participate again.
And, yeah, in order to draw those teams back, we had to promise a safe, reasonably noise-free working environment. That's why those categories feel like a workplace where folks need to behave professionally. The proposed new Help & Support category is envisioned to be much more friendly to new folks (since that is it's purpose).
Last edited by ian-weisser; 3 Weeks Ago at 02:49 AM.
I wasn't expecting a such a dismissive response about my experience.
There appears to be two different goals. I don't think the we can hold hands and sing the problem away. I suppose when UF closes, it cannot continue in a space where it's second-class. Therefore it must either start its own Discourse if it has the staff bandwidth or likely struggle to fit in where it's not wanted due to "noise."And, yeah, in order to draw those teams back, we had to promise a safe, reasonably noise-free working environment. That's why those categories feel like a workplace where folks need to behave professionally. The proposed new Help & Support category is envisioned to be much more friendly to new folks (since that is it's purpose)
I had thought Discourse would be receptive and would survey the incoming userbase, but I do not see evidence of this. And I'm afraid the effort will fail... but alas "function over form" will prevail.
My apologies for appearing dismissive.
I'm agreeing with your assessment of a problem. I'm merely disagreeing with your assessment that it is unsolvable. I have offered a vision toward solving it. Please help us develop that path.
I think the fact that I'm here, very active, and shouting "It can be done! And Discourse wants this!" shows that Discourse is receptive.
I gently disagree that "the effort will fail." We all strongly disagree with any solution that results in support requests "second class." Other peer projects have done it successfully, and this thread has links to them. Let's please be constructive.
Survey the incoming userbase about what?
Last edited by ian-weisser; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:56 AM.
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