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Thread: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    3

    Re: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

    Interesting, so Red Hat has more say than Ubuntu??

  2. #32
    Join Date
    May 2024
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    45

    Re: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

    Not all devs pack old stuff into the AppImages. They just pack stuff together is all, so you don't have to entangle your system. And if the app has functionality and works right, there's no reason to complain. Which AppImage is giving you a hard time?

  3. #33
    Join Date
    May 2024
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    Hidden!
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    Ubuntu

    Re: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

    You think systemd is bad? How about the complete POS that is snap?

    I install updates today, suddenly my firewall has cupsd listening on port 631. Strange, I thought, because I uninstalled cupsd when I provisioned the machine. apt-get purge "cups*" ... sure enough it's not installed. Yet there's a cupsd process listening.

    So snap just decided to install a new networking listening daemon and enable it, without any prompt or confirmation.

    Needless to say, I am removing this dangerous software from all of my computers.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    3

    Re: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFu View Post
    During the prioritization of anything, we'd consider how many customers it would impact
    And that inevitably leads to "never upgrade anything" attitude, because shipping features always has priority over upgrading dependencies and it's perfectly clear why.

    Except when it becomes critical to update a library and it's plain impossible because the current one lags two major versions behind, is 12 years old and requires upgrading virtually everything else which calls for a major refactoring of the project with substantial risks and new bugs that actually will impact customers.

    Security patches? Even less priority, because security is totally invisible, unmeasurable and not sellable*.

    In my companies I require devs to track dependencies daily. Granted, in a world of frontend web development it takes all the running you can do to keep in the same place, but we upgrade the OS-related things as well. And sure enough I strongly resist bundling dependencies for our desktop product in an AppImage or snap or flatpak or whatever is in trend today; because this way we're doomed: no one will ever upgrade glibc or opencv. Running on the bare host OS kind of forces our business to not lag behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFu View Post
    Some of our clients complained whenever any update was required.
    Sure, because they're in the same position: why upgrade if it works. Hence we have Ubuntu LTS with 12 years of support after which the project requiring ancient OS version is practically doomed. On the extreme side of things we have American banks who wouldn't even consider any software unless it's already EOL.

    * Of course you can put whatever words you want on the web about security and make it a selling point. Absolutely doesn't have to be true. Again, unmeasurable.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    3

    Re: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

    Quote Originally Posted by 909mjolnir View Post
    Not all devs pack old stuff into the AppImages. They just pack stuff together is all, so you don't have to entangle your system.
    And that entangles the system because I now have gigabytes of the same glibc in different versions. And I don't trust app developers to properly track glibc changes and security patches. No one should, not even the developers should trust themselves doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by 909mjolnir View Post
    And if the app has functionality and works right, there's no reason to complain.
    Until there is and it's too late. I'm talking about security vulnerabilities carefully packed into a plethora of different AppImages on a single host. This is a convenient way to make sure that a properly updated and secure host OS system has no say in the vulnerabilities being exploited.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    3

    Re: *rant warning* HELP: How do I come to terms with systemd?

    Quote Originally Posted by currentshaft View Post
    Needless to say, I am removing this dangerous software from all of my computers.
    My script does that. Forget snap.
    Last edited by QIII; 4 Days Ago at 12:18 AM. Reason: Objectionable language edited.

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