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Thread: Building New Computer

  1. #1
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    Building New Computer

    My old computer finally gave up the ghost. The Asus P5Q Pro served me well for 15 years. I would appreciate suggestions for my new build.
    It must be Linux compatible. I am not a gamer, and don't plan to be.
    I am thinking of the Ryzen 5 8600G. I need to purchase everything except for the case and the power supply.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Re: Building New Computer

    Budget?

    I usually start out with a $200 CPU, but I'm sensitive to the "value" and might spend a little less or a little more if the performance numbers for a "good value" CPU are right.
    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html So, right now, the best "performance for the buck" is a Ryzen 5 5500. It doesn't have any GPU, it is AM4, which means you'll need an AM4 motherboard. Supplies of the popular versions of those motherboards are becoming tight, so perhaps the AM5 premium would be worth it. Only you can decide.

    Using passmarks to compare CPU performance is better than nothing. Sure it is flawed, but any CPU within 500 passmarks is effectively the same level of performance.

    With Ryzen AM5 or AM4 sockets, we gain access to an entire line of possible CPU upgrades. AM4 is at the trailing end of new CPUs. AM5 is just starting.

    AM5 requires DDR5, which is also at a premium, so don't expect $50 to cover your RAM desires. Double that. DDR4 is finally cheap. That's a consideration.

    After I pick the CPU, then I head over to PCPartpicker to get ideas for the motherboard and other stuff. I'm partial to Asus and MSI. Be certain to download the motherboard manual to learn about odd things - like that PCIe slot 3 is disabled if you install 2 m.2 NVMe drives. Or the 6 SATA ports, if used, prevent the 2nd m.2 slot from being used. Stuff like that.

    Also I actively avoid Realtek network chips. I've been burned too many times and the $20 extra it costs to get an Intel NIC on the motherboard so I don't have driver or performance issues is well worth the cost. Intel "just works". These forums are full of people with Realtek having problems.

    My last build was a Ryzen 5600G (I wanted to avoid a separate GPU). The included iGPU is better than a low-end nVidia which runs ~$100 and it will use less power, and they support video transcoding in hardware - which doesn't show up in CPU load at all, if you do anything like that. So, while the "G" Ryzen CPUs (AMD calls then APUs), aren't often a great value, just take $70 off the price and run your cost calculations again.

    What would you actually do with an 8600G and the 25000 passmarks? https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php...+Ryzen+5+8600G
    It looks like $230 is the current price. That Ryzen 5500 is $85 for 19000 passmarks. A linear price says that 25K passmarks should cost $112. Add $70 for the iGPU and $182 is the "deal price". In short, that CPU is NOT A VALUE at the current price. I'd pass.

    If I needed a computer today because I didn't have one, I'd buy the best used computer I could get for $80 while I waited up to a year for AM5 prices to drop, if I would only accept AM5.

    For people who don't plan to upgrade their CPU later, Intel CPUs can be an excellent value. The Core i5-13400F https://www.neweggbusiness.com/Produ...9SIA4N9HRN4308 is about $136 less, has an iGPU and still provides 25K passmarks. They have a non-"F" version for $156.
    Of course, intel motherboards change faster than a 4 month old in diapers, but if you use a computer for 10+ yrs, that doesn't matter to you.

    You may need a new monitor. Current GPUs/iGPUs have DisplayPort video outputs. VGA is long dead. Some may or may not have HDMI. I was hit with this issue myself. I ended up getting a new KVM switch - which isn't nearly as good as my old VGA one, except it supports 4K monitors. I don't have any 4K monitors, but I was planning ahead with the KVM purchase. Someday, I'll get a 4K monitor, probably.

    So, what's your total budget and the budget for each major component?

  3. #3
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    Re: Building New Computer

    I know TheFu prefers AMD, but I have always used Intel. But I do keep systems for many years and do not need fastest system. I do not game.
    I so not use separate video card as CPU chip with video is more than adequate and lower in cost than CPU without video & separate video card.

    My full build in 2017 needed new power supply. Specs said old supply was same standard, but system would not boot. Went to MicroCenter which was nearby and it booted with their supply with out issue.

    Regretted not getting new Case. Wanted USB3 port on front, but old case was only USB2 and connectors from motherboard to case was not the same. Only power switch really worked. Now if building system I would want USB-C ports. I now would buy smaller case, but some require a more expensive small power supply.
    https://www.tomshardware.com/best-pi...i-itx-pc-cases

    Also made the mistake of incompatible video. Old monitor was VGA & DVI in, motherboard was HDMI or Displayport out. Used old nVidia card that it turned out had lower video specs than Intel CPU's video. Then found adapter cable to go from Motherboard to monitor.

    NVMe with M.2 is now lower in cost, so if you want a fast booting system, that is worthwhile.
    Last edited by oldfred; February 20th, 2024 at 05:04 PM.
    UEFI boot install & repair info - Regularly Updated :
    https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  4. #4
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    Re: Building New Computer

    Thanks to all for your informative replies. For the short term I resurrected an even older computer than the one that just died. I moved the SSD and reinstalled Ubuntu 22.04. I did a dual boot on that drive with the already installed OS and the freshly installed one. I was surprised that the OS that was running on the previous one would run on the resurrected one. The previous computer was Intel and this one is AM2.

  5. #5
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    Re: Building New Computer

    Quote Originally Posted by daniell59 View Post
    Thanks to all for your informative replies. For the short term I resurrected an even older computer than the one that just died. I moved the SSD and reinstalled Ubuntu 22.04. I did a dual boot on that drive with the already installed OS and the freshly installed one. I was surprised that the OS that was running on the previous one would run on the resurrected one. The previous computer was Intel and this one is AM2.
    For the most part, x86-64 CPUs are all compatible unless you specifically set some programs to use extensions for a specific chip. Virtualization tools commonly allow that feature. The installed software usually tests (or queries) the OS for specific extensions that are supported that it knows how to use. If you care, you can see the list of CPU extensions using the lscpu command - check the "Flags" list.

    I've moved virtual machines from Intel to AMD. Once I forgot to change the CPU model inside one VM to match the CPU of the host and it refused to boot. I'm embarrassed to say how long it took me to figure that one out, but it was more than 2 hrs.

  6. #6
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    Re: Building New Computer

    https://www.phoronix.com/review/inte...4500-amd-ryzen - Intel Core i3 14100 / i5 14500 vs. AMD Ryzen 5 8500G / 8600G In 500+ Benchmarks just published. Results are mixed with the 2 Ryzens and Core i5 trading top spots in different benchmarks. Yes, the 8500G is faster than the 8600G in some workloads. The Core i5 is faster than both in some workloads.

    What I find really interesting is the prices/performance. I like to make a graph when I'm looking for a CPU with price vs performance. Often, they are not linear as we would hope. Pricing sometimes is off and that's when we can find really great deals.

  7. #7
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    Re: Building New Computer

    @oldfred
    Regretted not getting new Case.
    I normally prefer building mini-ITX systems, but on my most recent build, I decided to re-use an existing micro-ATX case. To make a long story short, I wound up having to buy a new case anyway. Since I had already bought the micro-ATX motherboard, I had to settle for a computer case about twice the size of one of my mini-ITX cases.
    The one advantage (IMHO) of the micro-ATX case over the mini-ITX is the extra room inside of the case. That's it just one advantage. Others may disagree.
    Added: After some thought, the larger ATX/micro-ATX cases and motherboards have the advantages of hosting more drives (HDD/SSD) and more card slots for peripherals.
    Last edited by him610; February 23rd, 2024 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Added another line
    Cheers,


    The Linux Command Line at http://linuxcommand.org/

  8. #8
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    Re: Building New Computer

    I haven't bought a new case since around 2002. The computers inside those cases have changed at least 3 times. They have thumb screw access to get inside (I bought a 50 pak of those screws), which makes a huge difference. All are mid-tower, but one is extra wide from a dual CPU system I had in the late 1990s, well before CPU cores existed.

    I like having 6 HDDs inside the same case and sharing storage on the LAN between both systems. I have a "spare", slow, Core i5-750 that isn't powered on. It is handy when I need to connect outside my core network and do things that may not be exactly safe. It can be a router, if I need to take my main WAN router out of service. It is old enough to have issues with USB3 devices. The internal bus just wasn't made for USB3 bandwidth.

    I have 2 ITX cases too. They were for media center system, which have long been replaced with Raspberry Pi systems that are faster and more flexible than the ITX motherboards supported. Plus the PSUs that came in those systems were far too loud. I replaced one with a PicoATX 65W power supply, which was silent and had an external brick. Nothing making noise inside the case except the CPU fan on the AMD E-350 APU. I don't even count that computer as working that E-350 is so very slow with just 400 passmarks. A good-enough desktop really needs 6000 passmarks these days. Should be able to build one for about $150, reusing a case.

  9. #9
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    Re: Building New Computer

    I have two old Lian Li aluminum ATX cases. Many of the fans are 80mm and can't be upgraded to 120mm. I wonder if that will provide for sufficient cooling with upgraded components. both cases have a removable MB tray. Everything comes off with thumb screws. On both cases the front panel is held on by tape. The plastic clips have rotted away. Discarding the cases would be like throwing out an old sick dog.

  10. #10
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    Re: Building New Computer

    Quote Originally Posted by daniell59 View Post
    I have two old Lian Li aluminum ATX cases. Many of the fans are 80mm and can't be upgraded to 120mm. I wonder if that will provide for sufficient cooling with upgraded components. both cases have a removable MB tray. Everything comes off with thumb screws. On both cases the front panel is held on by tape. The plastic clips have rotted away. Discarding the cases would be like throwing out an old sick dog.
    My systems have 1 extra 80mm case fan, beyond what the PSU and other components already have. Never had any heating issues.
    They both have a 120mm fan that pulls air over the 4 drive caddy inside each system, but the drive cage came with those fans. After about 1 yr, the cheap fan breaks and I replace it with a 120mm Noctua fan and set it too spin very slow - around 1200rpm so it is quiet. Before I put drive cages into my systems, there weren't any extra fans.

    Code:
    ~/SMART$ egrep -i Tempera smart.2024-02-19*
    smart.2024-02-19.nvme0n1:Temperature:                        38 Celsius
    smart.2024-02-19.nvme0n1:Temperature Sensor 1:               38 Celsius
    smart.2024-02-19.nvme0n1:Temperature Sensor 2:               54 Celsius
    smart.2024-02-19.sda:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   162   162   000    Old_age   Always       -       37 (Min/Max 24/50)
    smart.2024-02-19.sdb:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   176   176   000    Old_age   Always       -       34 (Min/Max 19/49)
    smart.2024-02-19.sdd:190 Airflow_Temperature_Cel 0x0022   061   049   045    Old_age   Always       -       39 (Min/Max 36/44)
    smart.2024-02-19.sdd:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   039   051   000    Old_age   Always       -       39 (0 21 0 0 0)
    smart.2024-02-19.sde:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   166   166   000    Old_age   Always       -       36 (Min/Max 20/50)
    smart.2024-02-19.sdf:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   144   144   000    Old_age   Always       -       45 (Min/Max 18/54)
    smart.2024-02-19.sdg:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   141   141   000    Old_age   Always       -       46 (Min/Max 21/55)
    smart.2024-02-19.sdh:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   113   098   000    Old_age   Always       -       39
    And on the other system:
    Code:
    ~/SMART$ egrep -i Tempera smart.2024-02-20.*
    smart.2024-02-20.nvme0n1:Temperature:                        40 Celsius
    smart.2024-02-20.nvme0n1:Temperature Sensor 1:               40 Celsius
    smart.2024-02-20.nvme0n1:Temperature Sensor 2:               45 Celsius
    smart.2024-02-20.sda:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   107   091   000    Old_age   Always       -       45
    smart.2024-02-20.sdb:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   117   108   000    Old_age   Always       -       30
    smart.2024-02-20.sdc:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   181   181   000    Old_age   Always       -       33 (Min/Max 19/43)
    smart.2024-02-20.sdd:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0002   176   176   000    Old_age   Always       -       34 (Min/Max 24/49)
    smart.2024-02-20.sde:194 Temperature_Celsius     0x0022   116   106   000    Old_age   Always       -       31
    Mostly chill. The NVMes run hotter and drives that don't have a fan pulling air over them run a little hotter, but not too hot. Most recommendations suggest 25-50 degC. A few peaks above those temperatures aren't to be worried about.

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