Could Apt Package Manager Be Eventually Fased out of LTS Releases?

[kabirgandhiok]

Hi,

I can't help but wonder if the standard LTS release of Ubuntu will default to the new snap based Ubuntu Core and then eventually canonical may stop supporting the non-immutable, non-snap based LTS version. I mean the LTS may eventually become entirely snap based. And they may just restrict a choice between snap and deb packages to just their developmental, 6 monthly releases. So far the communication from canonical is clear, they will support both, but maybe that changes after the 24.04 LTS is out.

[ian-weisser]

Many things are *possible*. That does not mean they are likely.

Snap server has not replaced Ubuntu Server. They live happily side-by-side.

Snap desktop is experimental. Maybe it will work for many users, maybe it won't. That's what experiments are for.

There is no secret plan to abandon deb packages or apt. There never has been.

[#&thj^%]

They are just recently, realizing that a preference for snaps are dwindling, so for now we have choices.
"I think personally" it will take a good 3-5 years before Canonical throws in the towel for snaps.
EDIT: Alan's Link:https://github.com/popey/unsnap

[kabirgandhiok]

Many things are *possible*. That does not mean they are likely.

Snap server has not replaced Ubuntu Server. They live happily side-by-side.

Snap desktop is experimental. Maybe it will work for many users, maybe it won't. That's what experiments are for.

There is no secret plan to abandon deb packages or apt. There never has been.

They may not abandon apt or deb but just restrict it to their interim releases.

[kabirgandhiok]

They are just recently, realizing that a preference for snaps are dwindling, so for now we have choices.
"I think personally" it will take a good 3-5 years before Canonical throws in the towel for snaps.
EDIT: Alan's Link:https://github.com/popey/unsnap

They have been throwing in the towel for a lot of their projects, maybe they don't this time. (I hope they do). I can't imagine using a Linux system that is locked down and cannot be changed, snaps or no snaps.

[DuckHook]

…I can't imagine using a Linux system that is locked down and cannot be changed, snaps or no snaps.

This will never happen because the Linux ecosystem is self‑correcting. Ubuntu is far from the only distro around and were Canonical to make as foolish a move as the one you posit, users would abandon them in droves.

Many of our own forum members have recently moved to Debian because of their distaste for snaps. That exodus is just a trickle compared to the torrent that would occur if Ubuntu were to become "locked down". This dynamic exists because of the FOSS nature of Linux and there's nothing that any corporation can do to stop it. FOSS enforces good behaviour on the whole ecosystem by punishing bad behaviour with easy forks and simple, limitless mobility. Canonical is well aware of this dynamic and would not shoot themselves in the foot.

[ian-weisser]

I mean the LTS may eventually become entirely snap based.

They have been throwing in the towel for a lot of their projects, maybe they don't this time. (I hope they do).

Those seem contradictory predictions.

And they may just restrict a choice between snap and deb packages to just their developmental, 6 monthly releases.

That's a direct contradiction of Mark Shuttleworth's keynote eight months ago at Ubuntu Summit 2022, where he specifically committed that Ubuntu will continue to be based upon Debian...including debs and apt. He been asked various similar questions since Ubuntu began, and I cannot find any record that he has ever deviated from that vision. Not once.

Not a single Ubuntu manager has breathed that such a change has ever been considered...and they historically tend to be fairly bad at keeping such important secrets.

[kabirgandhiok]

I hope my predictions, assumptions, speculations, all turn out to be wrong. I'd hate to see their standard LTS release default to all snaps and thus, locked down. Yesterday I chanced upon a YouTuber's review on Ubuntu Core, though still in its alpha stage, apparently he can't even edit his bashrc through the terminal, not even with sudo, and all software must be installed through the GUI not the terninal. Whether this way of interacting with the system remains just another option or becomes the default standard time will tell.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwL0sTz1Kjs

[ian-weisser]

Yesterday I chanced upon a YouTuber's review on Ubuntu Core, though still in its alpha stage, apparently he can't even edit his bashrc through the terminal, not even with sudo, and all software must be installed through the GUI not the terninal.

The point of an Immutable Desktop is right there in the label. They cannot edit their .bashrc because that's what "Immutable" means. The use cases for such a desktop have been discussed in public repeatedly, as have the limitations that are obvious to everybody.

Once again, nobody at Canonical or in the Ubuntu community plans to "lock down" anything in the ways you describe.
Nobody at Canonical or in the Ubuntu Community plans to end debian package management.
Nobody at Canonical or in the Ubuntu Community plans to end Ubuntu Server in favor of Ubuntu Core.
Nobody at Canonical or in the Ubuntu Community plans to end Ubuntu Desktop in favor of (hypothetical) Ubuntu Core Desktop.

So go ahead and worry about it as much as you like. And if you discover that I'm wrong, please cite a source.

There are lots of other Linux distros. And non-Linux open source alternatives. As DuckHook succinctly pointed out, you have no obligation to follow a distro that you don't enjoy using.
There is no vendor lock-in here.

[ajgreeny]

I've been running Debian Unstable as a VM for some time now in KVM and with the currently easier installation of non-free packages it becomes a lot easier to use than it used to be.

It is, in my opinion, now very like Ubuntu in many ways and nowhere near as difficult as it was when I first used it probably 16 years ago.

And Debian, of course, does not offer snaps by default though they can be added if someone wants to do so. I suspect most Debian users shy away from snaps totally.
I believe I could move from my current Xubuntu to Debian Xfce very easily and in some ways hardly notice the difference!