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Thread: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

  1. #1
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    Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    I regularly update my system using "sudo apt update" and "sudo apt upgrade". This normally leaves the Kernel alone.
    But the latest update today suddenly installed 5.11 (existing kernel was 5.8), with a slew of error messages about "i915".

    What's going on here? Is the update server gone berserk? Why am I being forced a Kernel update?

  2. #2
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    It normally would upgrade the kernel if new one is available. I always get kernel updated that way. Which Ubuntu version is that? I have been on kernel 5.11 for ages, ubuntu 20.04.

  3. #3
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    Only if you install 20.04 or 20.04.1 do you keep the orginal 5.4 kernel.

    Otherwise you have the enablement stack. This updates kernel for newer systems support. Not really required if original kernel & drivers worked, but some still like to have latest/greatest.
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
    UEFI boot install & repair info - Regularly Updated :
    https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  4. #4
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeybrain20122 View Post
    It normally would upgrade the kernel if new one is available. I always get kernel updated that way. Which Ubuntu version is that? I have been on kernel 5.11 for ages, ubuntu 20.04.
    I've one machine running 5.4.0 and two running 5.8.0 and when they get upgraded it's like 5.4.0-78 to 5.4.0-81 for example. This is fine.
    But this is the first time I've experienced a major version jump (5.8 -> 5.11) during a simple update. Kernel updates normally need other commands.
    So what' wrong here?

  5. #5
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    Quote Originally Posted by ml9104 View Post
    I've one machine running 5.4.0 and two running 5.8.0 and when they get upgraded it's like 5.4.0-78 to 5.4.0-81 for example. This is fine.
    But this is the first time I've experienced a major version jump (5.8 -> 5.11) during a simple update. Kernel updates normally need other commands.
    So what' wrong here?
    Nope, no other commands are needed. It will be upgraded to 5.11 if you have HWE enabled.

  6. #6
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Only if you install 20.04 or 20.04.1 do you keep the orginal 5.4 kernel.

    Otherwise you have the enablement stack. This updates kernel for newer systems support. Not really required if original kernel & drivers worked, but some still like to have latest/greatest.
    https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack
    @oldfred, thanks for the update and the link. Reading it is total gobbledegook, could be from almost any politician. "Enablement Stack" indeed!

    So, with this new "Service", I'm forced to accept kernel updates that throw errors, although I have three perfectly working machines with 5.4 and 5.8.

    Am I the only one seeing a problem here?

  7. #7
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    The kernel 5.8 is only supplied if you install using Ubuntu 20.04.2 iso - There is no other way to get that kernel with 20.04.
    I think when you install 20.04.2 you are then automatically on the schedule for further kernel upgrades which works like this:
    When your system becomes 20.04.3 kernel 5.11 is then installed as an automatic update.
    When your system becomes 20.04.4 the kernel of Ubuntu 21.10 (to be determined) will be installed.
    When your system becomes 20.04.5 the kernel of Ubuntu 22.04 (to be determined) will be installed.
    Last edited by Dennis N; August 31st, 2021 at 05:11 AM.

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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    As for your i915 firmware missing problem, there is an easy fix, update linux-firmware with system 76's ppa.

    After that you can just disable the ppa.

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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    Quote Originally Posted by ml9104 View Post
    I regularly update my system using "sudo apt update" and "sudo apt upgrade". This normally leaves the Kernel alone.
    sudo apt upgrade installs new kernels whenever the installed kernel metapackage is updated and has always done so. sudo apt-get upgrade would leave the kernels alone. That's the same for the minor updates (5.11.0-25 to 5.11.0-31) and major updates (5.8 to 5.11).

    Quote Originally Posted by ml9104 View Post
    So, with this new "Service", I'm forced to accept kernel updates that throw errors, although I have three perfectly working machines with 5.4 and 5.8.

    Am I the only one seeing a problem here?
    If the system was running the 5.4 kernel and receiving upgrades for it, it's not running the HWE kernel and will continue with the 5.4 kernel. If it was running the 5.8 kernel, it is running the HWE kernel and must upgrade to 5.11, as 5.8 is no longer supported. If you don't want these major kernel upgrades every 6 months, stay off the HWE kernels.

    I agree, it may be a problem if HWE kernels are encouraged a bit too much.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis N View Post
    The kernel 5.8 is only supplied if you install using Ubuntu 20.04.2 iso - There is no other way to get that kernel with 20.04.
    I think when you install 20.04.2 you are then automatically on the schedule for further kernel upgrades which works like this:
    It seems (if I'm not mistaken) that from Ubuntu Desktop 20.04 (but not Server or the flavours), you're put on HWE kernels automatically. For other releases that only happens from the .2 point release.

  10. #10
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    Re: Suddenly forced update to 5,11 with warnings? What's up?

    The Ubuntu wiki for LTS Enablement Stack says this:

    The 20.04 LTS HWE Stacks continue to follow Rolling Update Model as documented at the following location, as has been in use since 16.04 LTS : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/Rolli...nablementStack
    The Wiki page for Rolling LTS Enablement Stack says this:

    We first introduced the idea of a HWE Kernel in the Ubuntu 10.04 LTS release, Lucid Lynx. The HWE kernel was derived and vetted from a newer kernel shipping in a subsequent interim release of Ubuntu. These HWE kernels were released in the LTS point releases as a means to enable newer platforms and components which required functionality delivered in these newer kernels. Both desktop and server images were seeded with the HWE kernel by default in the point release images. In addition to an updated HWE Kernel, for desktop users, an updated X Stack was also delivered. Beginning with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS, Precise Pangolin, it was agreed that users could remain on a HWE stack (ie HWE Kernel + X Stack) until the subsequent HWE Kernel from the next LTS was introduced in the images of the 5th point release of the LTS. Users were then required to upgrade to this final HWE Stack in order to remain supported with security updates and ongoing bug fixes.
    And this

    Beginning with the Ubuntu 16.04 LTS release, Xenial Xerus, the Kernel and Foundations team proposed moving to a slightly different model for maintaining HWE kernels. Instead of supporting different HWE Stacks in parallel until we reach the final 5th point release of an LTS, we would like to roll users forward incrementally as the newer HWE Stacks are introduced, ie. instantiate a rolling HWE stack.
    The answer to the question: "What is gong here?" is surely, "Normal service."

    Regards
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


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