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Thread: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

  1. #21
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    May 2021
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    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFu View Post
    My main concern is what happens if you have issues loading linux on the hot, new, laptop? What then?

    Moving from Windows to Linux isn't trivial. It really should be after using Linux for a long time, daily, so your eyes are open and tiny issues don't take weeks or longer to solve. Plus, Linux isn't Windows and about 80% of the power for it comes from NOT using GUI programs.

    Android development needs a $2000 laptop. 16G of RAM isn't nearly enough, IMHO.
    A light Linux like xubuntu on the current hardware, then you could run Win10 inside a virtual machine under it.
    I originally started computing on Macintosh Classic II in early 90s and 10 years later moved to Windows (after being ripped off so many times e.g. same software that I paid £385 for Mac was £195 for PC by the same company).
    I paid £360 for 16mb RAM ...lol... can you believe it!?

    I had dual set-up Mac + PC for about a year and found out that I only work on one and had the added hassle to transfer work if I wanted to work on both (those days with 720kb floppies) and reconnecting monitor and printer. Finally I ditched Mac.

    I also tried dual-boot Win/Linux which was not easy those days. I tried Slackware, Gentoo & finally Debian. Even with Dual-boot, I found myself only working in one system (pain to restart every time). Eventually I run into kernel panic and the Linux stopped loading and I was forced to reformat.

    Some users need dual-boot to access systems occasionally. I only need ONE computer and ONE system. Laptop suits me as I take it with me when I travel. Desktop is good, in addition to laptop, but as I mentioned, I only want/need one computer.

    Thinking of upgrading my laptop for a more powerful one, I was considering the options of staying with Windows (paying $139-$199 for the Win 10 home-pro, $50 for ESET, etc), or ditching and moving to Linux. The dual-boot again doest help with the costs. The OEM Windows might be cheaper, but costs nonetheless.

    I thought of using the money towards the cost of the laptop, instead of software.
    PS. I only need Android IDE for testing and not development so I would only run it once a while & for a short time.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
    Looks like you can add another 4 GB of memory into your Acer. That's a fairly low-cost upgrade that can often help improve performance considerably.

    https://www.crucial.com/compatible-u...g-73618g50makk

    Replacing the hard drive with an SSD is also a fairly cheap upgrade that can cut down on the time required to boot and do file transactions.
    I thought about it, but the CPU is still 3rd gen. Then there is the cost of RAM (8gb ~ $40, 16GB ~$70, max 8gb for my laptop though), SSD (512gb ~$100) & Windows 10 (~$139-$199).
    Having 8gb RAM might work now but soon it will not be enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by him610 View Post
    Why not consider buying one with Ubuntu already installed? https://system76.com/laptops

    They make good machines. I have had one for over eight years now - it is my wife's primary computer.
    I am not living in UK now and at my location, Linux pre-loaded laptops are not available.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Hidden!
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    Kubuntu 18.04 Bionic Beaver

    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    in Asia Asus and Dell come linux preloaded. You could get HP or Lenovo with no OS, then load linux after wards..

    here are a couple of lists. Some ship worldwide. https://linuxpreloaded.com/

    so unless you are in North Korea, Syria or Iran you should be able to get access to them rather easily.

    yes, the biggest issue with upgrade is that when you replace SSD and RAM you are close to price of new one. I have an oldie myself. I was thinking to upgrade the RAM only (and maybe up to 6 GB only from current 2 GB), so it can be used for some web surfing and if they have online school, so we can move them to separate room. if i upgrade to 8Gb and also add SSD the cost would come close to a much better new PC.
    Read the easy to understand, lots of pics Ubuntu manual.
    Do i need antivirus/firewall in linux?
    Full disk backup (newer kernel -> suitable for newer PC): Clonezilla
    User friendly full disk backup: Rescuezilla

  3. #23
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    Jun 2021
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    44

    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow Pasque View Post
    Well, there's no seamless switching "Optimus" support in Linux.
    You may be able to use prime-select ondemand like this: https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread....5#post14004415
    But I personally would not buy a laptop with dual GPU's if running Linux. Heck, my nephew got one of those gamer laptops with a powerful Nvidia GPU and he ended up overheating it, and that was probably with Windows.
    Hello. As mentioned previously, System76 sells laptops with Linux (PoPOS with nvidia graphics) on it so in theory, couldn't you find a Dell or Lenovo laptop, for e.g.,which has the same mobile graphics chip - and have a laptop running as smoothly as a System76 one?

    Just asking. I don't know much about Laptops with the hybrid graphics - except, last time I paid attention to it, it was Optimus - and developers would probably use 'Windows' - to reverse engineer the drivers, if I'm not mistaken. You probably have to stick to particular mobile graphics chips - whichever is supported.

    I am just guessing, don't quote me on anything.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    14,485

    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by linuux View Post
    System76 sells laptops with Linux (PoPOS with nvidia graphics) on it so in theory, couldn't you find a Dell or Lenovo laptop, for e.g.,which has the same mobile graphics chip - and have a laptop running as smoothly as a System76 one?
    In theory, yes, but from someone who looks at these forums and other bug reports, I'd say there are still some rough edges with the PRIME setup, that may require hacking at the command line or changing BIOS settings. I wouldn't recommend it to a non "power user".

    I guess PRIME is getting better as Nvidia rolls out driver fixes ( https://www.nvidia.com/download/driv...x/176525/en-us ) and distros cleanup their scripts for handling "ondemand" mode. But unless someone's a hardcore gamer or doing serious 3D work, I would advise them to avoid Nvidia or a dual graphics laptop. Don't take that as gospel, because I don't have any hardware in front of me to test out how well prime works.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Promiseland
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    Xubuntu 20.04 Focal Fossa

    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Will be attempting installation of LTS 20.04.2 on laptop, Acer V3-572G w/i5-5200u and Nvidia Geforce 840m (from ~2015) within the next few days; will post results on this thread. I think I will replace the HDD with SSD first.

    Update:
    Did not replace HDD. Installed Xubuntu LTS 20.04.2 on the 1TB HDD in its own partition. No issues with the installation.
    Both GFX chips were recognized during the installation. Drivers for both intel 5500 and NVIDIA GeForce 840M were downloaded.

    Code:
    $ inxi -SMCGxz
    System:    Kernel: 5.8.0-55-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A Desktop: Xfce 4.14.2 
               Distro: Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS (Focal Fossa) 
    Machine:   Type: Laptop System: Acer product: Aspire V3-572G v: V1.26 serial: <filter> 
               Mobo: Acer model: EA50_HB v: V1.26 serial: <filter> UEFI: Insyde v: 1.26 
               date: 12/18/2014 
    CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core i5-5200U bits: 64 type: MT MCP 
               arch: Broadwell rev: 4 L2 cache: 3072 KiB 
               flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 17560 
               Speed: 798 MHz min/max: 500/2700 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 798 2: 799 3: 798 
               4: 799 
    Graphics:  Device-1: Intel HD Graphics 5500 vendor: Acer Incorporated ALI driver: i915 
               v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 
               Device-2: NVIDIA GM108M [GeForce 840M] vendor: Acer Incorporated ALI 
               driver: nvidia v: 460.80 bus ID: 04:00.0 
               Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: modesetting,nvidia 
               unloaded: fbdev,nouveau,vesa resolution: 1920x1080~60Hz 
               OpenGL: renderer: N/A v: N/A direct render: N/A
    Maybe I should figure out how to switch between GFX chips; although, the intel 5500 and i915 driver are perfectly acceptable to me for my uses.
    Last edited by him610; June 26th, 2021 at 02:45 AM.
    Cheers,


    The Linux Command Line at http://linuxcommand.org/

  6. #26
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    Feb 2016
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    3

    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    I made a successfull installation of MX Linux MX-19.4.1_x64 KDE, AHS (Advanced Hardware Support) on brand new HP Pavilion 15-eg0079nw (FreeDOS preinstalled) equipped with hybrid graphics: Intel TigerLake GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] & NVIDIA TU117M [GeForce MX450]. MX Linux uses Bumblebee technology for switching GPUs drivers. I couldn`t install Nvidia drivers with Ubuntu on that.

    Device configuration: https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=e76ffa7805
    Last edited by CoopOne; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:39 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoopOne View Post
    I have made a successfull installation of MX Linux MX-19.4.1_x64 KDE, AHS (Advanced Hardware Support) on brand new HP Pavilion 15-eg0079nw (FreeDOS preinstalled) equipped with hybrid graphics: Intel TigerLake GT2 [Iris Xe Graphics] & NVIDIA TU117M [GeForce MX450]. MX Linux uses Bumblebee technology for switching GPUs drivers. I couldn`t install Ubuntu on that.

    Device configuration: https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=e76ffa7805
    I would have tried Ubuntu 21.04. It should work - both are based off of Debian. Ubuntu has the Bubblebee package.

    https://www.ubuntuupdates.org/packag...base/bumblebee

    You enabled the third party/non-free repository? Did it not work - in general - or when everything was configured properly, it still didn't work?

    Just curious. I cannot test as I don't have a hybrid laptop. I'm just interested in nvidia and amd graphics situations here - as I plan a build in the near future (hopefully).

    Edit: Note, MX Linux uses an older kernel than current versions of Ubuntu 21.04 etc.
    Last edited by linuux; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:13 PM.

  8. #28
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    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by linuux View Post
    You enabled the third party/non-free repository? Did it not work - in general - or when everything was configured properly, it still didn't work?
    I spent almost two weeks and tried dozen modern distributions, different kernels, Secure Boot disabled, using great tool Ventoy (OpenSUSE, Fedora, Zorin, Mint, different Ubuntu versions, also 21.04 etc) - nothing worked at all. Always black screen at installation stage, or had to use modeset parameter to boot. I didn`t try third party repository. There were two problems diagnosed: the driver for the newest 11th generation Intel Iris Card cloud not be loaded, and then, I couldn`t install Nvidia driver too (trying different methods: manually, from repository etc).

    Reading the official Nvidia forum I made assumption, that it was necessary to have installed Intel driver BEFORE trying to install Nvidia driver. The only distribution, which managed to auto load driver for my Intel Iris version was MX Linux. To be precise - only AHS (Advance Hardware Version). Then, it was easy to install Nvidia driver using special Nvidia installation script provided in MX Linux.

    If you want to buy modern notebook and are not so experienced, my recommendation is: use Ventoy on high speed USB drive, disable Secure Boot in BIOS, try different newest distros with different kernels, look for special editions with enhanced support for hardware like MX Linux "AHS" version or OpenSUSE "Tumbleweed". Prove that it is possible to load Intel, and then Nvidia driver on any of that distribution. And then try to diagnose the problem on the distribution of Your choice.

    For now, I m using different notebook Dell Precision 5750 hybrid graphics 10th generation Intel i915 + Nvidia RTX 3000, Ubuntu 20.4 with special oem kernel version, which is Certified to work with Ubuntu. Everything works great (except high speed SDXC cards - but I think it will be resolved soon). On that one, the prime-select solution is used to switch between graphics cards.
    Last edited by CoopOne; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:32 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoopOne View Post
    I spent almost two weeks and tried dozen modern distributions, different kernels, Secure Boot disabled, using great tool Ventoy (OpenSUSE, Fedora, Zorin, Mint, different Ubuntu versions, also 21.04 etc) - nothing worked at all. Always black screen at installation stage, or had to use modeset parameter to boot. I didn`t try third party repository. There were two problems diagnosed: the driver for the newest 11th generation Intel Iris Card cloud not be loaded, and then, I couldn`t install Nvidia driver too (trying different methods: manually, from repository etc).

    Reading the official Nvidia forum I made assumption, that it was necessary to have installed Intel driver BEFORE trying to install Nvidia driver. The only distribution, which managed to load driver for my Intel Iris version was MX Linux. To be precise - only AHS (Advance Hardware Version). Then, it was easy to install Nvidia driver using special Nvidia installation script provided in MX Linux.

    I hope that information will help others, when trying to install Nvidia graphics on modern notebooks. If you are not so experienced, my recommendation is: use Ventoy on high speed USB drive, disable Secure Boot in BIOS, try the newest distros with newest kernels, look for special editions with enhanced support for hardware like MX Linux "AHS" version or OpenSUSE "Tumbleweed". Prove that it is possible to load Intel, and then Nvidia driver on any of that distribution. And then try to diagnose the problem on the distribution of Your choice.

    For now, I m using different notebook Dell Precision 5750 hybrid graphics 10th generation Intel i915 + Nvidia RTX 3000, Ubuntu 20.4 with special oem kernel version, which is Certified to work with Ubuntu. Everything works great (except high speed SDXC cards - but I think it will be resolved soon). In that one, the prime-select solution is used to switch between graphics cards.
    Interesting. My guess is you have to disable either the Intel or Nvidia at the start. The problem is overall Linux has done a poor job dealing with this technology. I noticed that most complaints on various distro forums has to do with hybrid graphics - most recent laptops are nvidia/intel although AMD has some radeon APU graphics laptops but I don't know what the situation is with those - I think they are too new as I don't notice too many posts on it but I wouldn't be surprised if it's also a challenge despite FOSS drivers with AMD.

    But, 'Bumblebee' and dealing with hybrid graphics has been an issue for a while from what I can tell - there's also the BIOS and the fact most laptops are Windows-based and Microsoft has license to mess around with the BIOS /Secure boot and all kinds of other stuff.

    My advice to people who buy nvidia hybrid laptops is to first look at PopOS and System76 websites because those guys sell nvidia/hybrid laptops and desktops equipped with nvidia hardware - preconfigured. So, see what steps and instructions they give and apply it to Ubuntu (PopOS is more or less, a highly tweaked version of Ubuntu).

    The problem is there is potential for graphics conflicts and the technology for 'switching' graphics is supported primarily in Windows - Windows OS is the priority so you are looking at smaller groups (Bumblebee etc.) trying to support this. System76 has a priority to make sure they work out of the box or they'll get a lot of complaints and it will put a strain on customer service - so, at the very least, it should work preconfigured - being able to deal with kernel, nvidia and intel version changes is another story.

    P.S. I'm a big fan of Ventoy. Great program!
    Last edited by linuux; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:30 PM.

  10. #30
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    Re: Should NVIDIA be avoided?

    Quote Originally Posted by linuux View Post
    The problem is overall Linux has done a poor job dealing with this technology. I noticed that most complaints on various distro forums has to do with hybrid graphics - most recent laptops are nvidia/intel although AMD has some radeon APU graphics laptops but I don't know what the situation is with those - I think they are too new as I don't notice too many posts on it but I wouldn't be surprised if it's also a challenge despite FOSS drivers with AMD.
    surely you mean that hardware manufacturers did a poor job in supporting linux here. It's their hardware, their drivers. they chose not to support linux from the start. nvidia just said sorry, we don't support linux. why would this be linux fault? it is amazing to me that nvidia could not support, but a rag tag bunch of people made bumblebee project and behold, somehow, someway optimus can actually work. and they didn't spend millions of USD to develop it. if nvidia does not have resources and can't see the benefits, i would understand that, but to not give a helping hand to people who can do it for them is ridiculous.


    AMD APUs work great. they are not just in laptops but desktop to. with current GPU prices, i am a bit sad i didn't go with APU during upgrade. at least i would have new GPU chip on the APU and it would at least support Vulkan and run some newer light GPU games well.


    EDIT: my kid has Ryzen 5 3500U paired with nvme. it works amazingly well for the games he plays. i checked and even this old APU can run Doom 2016 (on low settings) if i increase the ram to 16 GB and make it dual channel. which i might do, but i need to save a little bit of money to exchange the nvme into a bigger one as well. at the moment he is running most games from USB3.0 SSD drive.
    Last edited by mastablasta; 3 Weeks Ago at 07:09 AM.
    Read the easy to understand, lots of pics Ubuntu manual.
    Do i need antivirus/firewall in linux?
    Full disk backup (newer kernel -> suitable for newer PC): Clonezilla
    User friendly full disk backup: Rescuezilla

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