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Thread: Advice on Wayland?

  1. #21
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    I've run into what sounds like the same problem on a Ryzen/AMD/Radeon video box. If running an X session the video will lock up and none of the simple fixes - ctrl alt del or trying different terminals work. So far a hard reboot returns to the session with no data loss. Wayland does not do this.

    SWMBO uses Shutter which only runs under X so Wayland is not an option for her. I've tried Shutter alternatives but they lack one function she uses several times a day. She wants to do a screen shot and print the result without pasting the screen shot into another application. Shutter will do this, no other screen shot application I've found will.

  2. #22
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Quote Originally Posted by QIII View Post
    Have the Wayland developers changed their minds on the "There are things we have decided in our infinite wisdom that users don't need to do so we won't allow them to do so" attitude?
    What was it, Steve Jobs said "Don't hold it that way". So we have now "Don't use it way".

    I tried Gnome and it booted okay, but the dock took several minutes to come up. Haven't tried it in a while. My debian gnome works perfectly.

  3. #23
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt18947 View Post
    I've run into what sounds like the same problem on a Ryzen/AMD/Radeon video box. If running an X session the video will lock up and none of the simple fixes - ctrl alt del or trying different terminals work. So far a hard reboot returns to the session with no data loss. Wayland does not do this.
    Mine was a different problem. Once running, it didn't lock up. My problem was that, infrequently, X would fail to hand off from GDM to the window manager and just drop the video signal altogether. The OS underneath was still running fine and if I switched to another TTY blindly, going by memory, I could reboot it by logging in, then typing sudo reboot with no video signal. But that's a hairy way to run a production box.
    SWMBO uses Shutter which only runs under X so Wayland is not an option for her. I've tried Shutter alternatives but they lack one function she uses several times a day. She wants to do a screen shot and print the result without pasting the screen shot into another application. Shutter will do this, no other screen shot application I've found will.
    Though the Wayland landscape is slowly getting better, there are still a number of areas where it doesn't do too well. It sounds like Shutter is one of them. However, I can attest that xWayland has progressed enough that I can now get sound in LXD containers under Wayland. That was my big bugbear. Now that that's working, I doubt I'll be going back to Xorg. The increased stability alone is sufficient reason for me to make the jump.

  4. #24
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt18947 View Post
    I've run into what sounds like the same problem on a Ryzen/AMD/Radeon video box. If running an X session the video will lock up and none of the simple fixes - ctrl alt del or trying different terminals work. So far a hard reboot returns to the session with no data loss. Wayland does not do this.

    SWMBO uses Shutter which only runs under X so Wayland is not an option for her. I've tried Shutter alternatives but they lack one function she uses several times a day. She wants to do a screen shot and print the result without pasting the screen shot into another application. Shutter will do this, no other screen shot application I've found will.
    i don't have it for now. we had to use iommu=soft switch to avoid strange ryzen GPU chip behaviour

    spectacle in KDE also does this. not sure if it is wayland ready.
    Read the easy to understand, lots of pics Ubuntu manual.
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    Full disk backup (newer kernel -> suitable for newer PC): Clonezilla
    User friendly full disk backup: Rescuezilla

  5. #25
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    I've been using Wayland since it arose from the primordial ooze without any problems at all. However, I run a few Linux friendly systems and also being a Linux household I wouldn't know the difference between a problem and normal behavior.

  6. #26
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Quote Originally Posted by poorguy View Post
    Well that was easy enough to do and no go.

    I don't even have the option to use Wayland as there is no settings gear in the lower right hand corner of my login screen.

    Guess my driver and graphics card doesn't meet the requirements of Wayland.

    OH well I've got another Ubuntu 20.04 desktop that is all Intel inside and supports Wayland and runs great using Wayland.

    I guess that's what I get for being cheap and using computers built from bits and pieces from other users discarded computers.
    If your Nvidia card is discreet you could always replace it with an AMD video card. I've bought AMD video cards off Ebay for $20 -$30 - they're pulls, typically Dell or HP. They seem to work fine on MSI/Gigabyte/Asus boards. My main machine has MSI Ryzen MoBo and AMD 7450 video. I'm not a gamer or video editor so don't demand too much of my video system. This setup works just fine using Wayland. If using X.org eventually - and it may be several days - the video will lock up. The mouse cursor will move but that's all. I've had this happen perhaps a half dozen times. After a hard restart I can restart the program I was in and everything is there as it was when it froze up.

  7. #27
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Hey kurt18947,

    I appreciate the advice although I have several computers with Intel integrated graphics that Wayland runs great with.
    My whole interest with Nvidia and Wayland was curiosity because Nvidia doesn't seem to have interest in helping opensource.


    Code:
    Dell-OptiPlex-XE:~$ inxi -Fxz
    System:    Kernel: 5.8.0-48-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A Desktop: Gnome 3.36.7 
               Distro: Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS (Focal Fossa) 
    Machine:   Type: Desktop System: Dell product: OptiPlex XE v: N/A serial: <filter> 
               Mobo: Dell model: 0TNXNR v: A01 serial: <filter> BIOS: Dell v: A05 date: 01/09/2013 
    CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: Intel Core2 Duo E7400 bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Penryn rev: A 
               L2 cache: 3072 KiB 
               flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 ssse3 vmx bogomips: 11171 
               Speed: 1596 MHz min/max: 1600/2800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1596 2: 1596 
    Graphics:  Device-1: Intel 4 Series Integrated Graphics vendor: Dell driver: i915 v: kernel bus ID: 00:02.0 
               Display: wayland server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: i915 resolution: 1024x768~60Hz 
               OpenGL: renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Q45/Q43 (ELK) v: 2.1 Mesa 20.2.6 direct render: Yes 
    Audio:     Device-1: Intel 82801JD/DO HD Audio vendor: Dell driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:1b.0 
               Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.8.0-48-generic 
    Network:   Device-1: Broadcom and subsidiaries NetLink BCM57780 Gigabit Ethernet PCIe vendor: Dell 
               driver: tg3 v: kernel port: 0980 bus ID: 05:00.0 
               IF: enp5s0 state: up speed: 1000 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
               Device-2: Broadcom and subsidiaries NetXtreme BCM5761 Gigabit Ethernet PCIe vendor: Dell 
               driver: tg3 v: kernel port: 0980 bus ID: 06:00.0 
               IF: enp6s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
    Drives:    Local Storage: total: 149.05 GiB used: 7.63 GiB (5.1%) 
               ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Western Digital model: WD1600AAJS-22PSA0 size: 149.05 GiB 
    RAID:      Hardware-1: Intel SATA Controller [RAID mode] driver: ahci v: 3.0 bus ID: 00:1f.2 
    Partition: ID-1: / size: 145.22 GiB used: 7.63 GiB (5.3%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5 
    Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 31.0 C mobo: N/A 
               Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
    Info:      Processes: 192 Uptime: 21h 50m Memory: 7.68 GiB used: 1014.3 MiB (12.9%) Init: systemd 
               runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 Shell: bash v: 5.0.17 inxi: 3.0.38 
    Dell-OptiPlex-XE:~$
    Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
    (Mark Twain)

  8. #28
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Quote Originally Posted by poorguy View Post
    Hey kurt18947,

    I appreciate the advice although I have several computers with Intel integrated graphics that Wayland runs great with.
    My whole interest with Nvidia and Wayland was curiosity because Nvidia doesn't seem to have interest in helping opensource.
    There's a reason Linux Torvalds isn't one of Nvidia's biggest fans. I have used Nvidia's closed driver and it fixed a suspend/resume problem I had but I think caused a different issue or two, really can't remember. I know I prefer AMD video at this point.

  9. #29
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    Quote Originally Posted by kurt18947 View Post
    There's a reason Linux Torvalds isn't one of Nvidia's biggest fans. I have used Nvidia's closed driver and it fixed a suspend/resume problem I had but I think caused a different issue or two, really can't remember. I know I prefer AMD video at this point.
    I used to have good results using Nvidia graphics cards but Ubuntu 20.04 doesn't seem to like some of my Nvidia graphics cards.

    The Nouveau graphics driver works OK but sometimes I really need the proprietary Nvidia driver and it doesn't work half of the time even when it installs.

    OH well I stick with my Intel Inside for Ubuntu and Wayland.
    Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
    (Mark Twain)

  10. #30
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    Re: Advice on Wayland?

    I'm confused because everything I read about Nvidia and Wayland says that a Nvidia proprietary graphics driver is needed to run Wayland with an Nvidia graphics card.

    I did try to run Wayland and I was using an Nvidia proprietary graphics driver and I was unable to enable Wayland as the settings gear on my log in screen wasn't available.


    Today I decided to reinstall Ubuntu 20.04.2 on the same computer only this time I didn't use the Nvidia proprietary graphics driver and to my surprise I now have the option to use Wayland I am using Wayland and so far it appears to be working well.

    Why does the Nouveau open source driver work and since it does work why does anyone need the Nvidia proprietary graphics driver if the Nouveau open source graphics driver works.


    Thanks.


    Code:
    nelson@hp-pavilion:~$ echo $XDG_SESSION_TYPE
    wayland
    nelson@hp-pavilion:~$
    Code:
    nelson@hp-pavilion:~$ env | grep -i wayland
    XDG_CONFIG_DIRS=/etc/xdg/xdg-ubuntu-wayland:/etc/xdg
    DESKTOP_SESSION=ubuntu-wayland
    XDG_SESSION_DESKTOP=ubuntu-wayland
    XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland
    XAUTHORITY=/run/user/1000/.mutter-Xwaylandauth.FLUV10
    WAYLAND_DISPLAY=wayland-0
    XDG_DATA_DIRS=/usr/share/ubuntu-wayland:/usr/local/share/:/usr/share/:/var/lib/snapd/desktop
    GDMSESSION=ubuntu-wayland
    nelson@hp-pavilion:~$
    Code:
    nelson@hp-pavilion:~$ inxi -Fxz
    System:    Kernel: 5.8.0-48-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A Desktop: Gnome 3.36.7 
               Distro: Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS (Focal Fossa) 
    Machine:   Type: Desktop System: HP-Pavilion product: GN556AA-ABA a6200n v: N/A serial: <filter> 
               Mobo: ECS model: Nettle2 v: 1.0 serial: <filter> BIOS: Phoenix v: 5.12 date: 06/11/2007 
    CPU:       Topology: Dual Core model: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5600+ bits: 64 type: MCP arch: K8 rev.F+ 
               rev: 3 L2 cache: 2048 KiB 
               flags: lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 svm bogomips: 11251 
               Speed: 1000 MHz min/max: 1000/2800 MHz Core speeds (MHz): 1: 1000 2: 1000 
    Graphics:  Device-1: NVIDIA GT218 [GeForce 8400 GS Rev. 3] vendor: ASUSTeK driver: nouveau v: kernel 
               bus ID: 02:00.0 
               Display: wayland server: X.Org 1.20.9 driver: nouveau resolution: 1024x768~60Hz 
               OpenGL: renderer: NVA8 v: 3.3 Mesa 20.2.6 direct render: Yes 
    Audio:     Device-1: NVIDIA MCP61 High Definition Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard 
               driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:05.0 
               Device-2: NVIDIA High Definition Audio vendor: ASUSTeK driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel 
               bus ID: 02:00.1 
               Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.8.0-48-generic 
    Network:   Device-1: NVIDIA MCP61 Ethernet vendor: Hewlett-Packard type: network bridge 
               driver: forcedeth v: kernel port: ec00 bus ID: 00:07.0 
               IF: enp0s7 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
    Drives:    Local Storage: total: 76.69 GiB used: 8.68 GiB (11.3%) 
               ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: Hitachi model: HDS721680PLAT80 size: 76.69 GiB 
    Partition: ID-1: / size: 74.49 GiB used: 8.68 GiB (11.7%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5 
    Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 33.0 C mobo: N/A gpu: nouveau temp: 40 C 
               Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
    Info:      Processes: 200 Uptime: 3m Memory: 5.81 GiB used: 660.5 MiB (11.1%) Init: systemd 
               runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 Shell: bash v: 5.0.17 inxi: 3.0.38 
    nelson@hp-pavilion:~$
    Under certain circumstances, profanity provides a relief denied even to prayer.
    (Mark Twain)

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