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Thread: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

  1. #21
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    I don't work in the corporate tech world -- far from it. Other than the attitude of "this is the way it is and we've always used it", it seems like a great excuse to move away toward something Debian based. How hard of transition would that be?

  2. #22
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Quote Originally Posted by kevdog View Post
    …How hard of transition would that be?
    So many factors. Here are just some:

    • How central is CentOS to the enterprise?
    • How many rigs are using it?
    • How mission‑critical are those rigs?
    • How many human hours would be involved in not only migrating, but relearning Linux the Debian way vs the RHEL way?
    • How exposed would the enterprise be while all of this relearning is taking place?
    • What is the likelihood of serious errors being introduced by the migration itself? (Some systems have so much customization that simply documenting it is both a chore and a risk.)
    • What functional holes exist in Debian that don't exist (or are easily handled) in RHEL?
    • But most of all, "why are we being forced into a huge migration just because IBM has decided to divorce an entire community?" It is open source after all, isn't it? One of the biggest points of FOSS is that it can be forked any time, to forestall exactly this sort of dereliction.

    It could be excruciating.

  3. #23
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuckHook View Post
    • But most of all, "why are we being forced into a huge migration just because IBM has decided to divorce an entire community?" It is open source after all, isn't it? One of the biggest points of FOSS is that it can be forked any time, to forestall exactly this sort of dereliction.
    fork is the most logical path.

    i hope they can make it. i have old Nvidia GPU that could benefit from 10 year support on stable kernel & drivers. if nothing else, i could add a couple of controlers, connect it to TV and make steam/Play on linux box out of it. it seems such a waste to throw away working hardware.
    Last edited by mastablasta; December 15th, 2020 at 10:23 AM.
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  4. #24
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Quote Originally Posted by mastablasta View Post
    fork is the most logical path.

    i hope they can make it.
    I do too. Thanks for pointing us to the glimmerings of the start of that fork. For the curious, here's a link to Rocky Linux that mastablasta had alluded to earlier: https://rockylinux.org/

    Not much there yet, but do keep in mind that the distro has just been conceived.

    One more philosophical broadside and then I'll give it a rest:

    Frankly, it flabbergasts me how much big companies are both tone deaf to and ignorant of the communities that support their "assets". IBM in particular is a company that is mono-maniacally focused on their big corporate customers and utterly oblivious to the larger reality around them. Consider:

    1. They buy an asset (CentOS), but then abandon its roots, its creeds, its traditions, its very raison d'être.
    2. In doing so, they perforce also abandon its huge community of enthusiasts, users and (most importantly for IBM) devs.
    3. This means that they have, in effect, hollowed out all value from this asset that they paid so much for.
    4. The only thing left is its name: "CentOS". So they paid… what?… some ridiculous coin for the right to use a name.
    5. Meanwhile, the community that made that name worth something picks itself up after being so flippantly abandoned and coalesces around a new fork. The new fork takes on most of the value that the old asset used to have.

    Just what has IBM managed to achieve? Why do they keep reaching into their hat and pulling out such skunks?

    They pulled something similar with their original runaway success, the IBM PC.

    They pulled another one with what was arguably the best consumer OS of its time, OS/2.

    When it comes to dealing with us common folk, they seem hell bent on shooting themselves in the foot.

  5. #25
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    I could be wrong... but didn't IBM purchase RedHat in 2018? Do you think they had anything to do with dropping CentOS?
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  6. #26
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibblet View Post
    I could be wrong... but didn't IBM purchase RedHat in 2018? Do you think they had anything to do with dropping CentOS?
    Of course no one has reports from the inner sanctum of the management group, but it's almost certainly an IBM decision. Unless things have changed dramatically from when I was dealing with them, Big Blue is an obsessively monolithic organization. The Red Hat holdovers would have little say over things like "assets". If Big Blue has changed, it would be in things like letting devs work in T-shirts and hang surfboards over their desks. But when it comes to anything to do with assets, this would continue to be the exclusive domain of the suits.

  7. #27
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DuckHook View Post
    Of course no one has reports from the inner sanctum of the management group, but it's almost certainly an IBM decision. Unless things have changed dramatically from when I was dealing with them, Big Blue is an obsessively monolithic organization. The Red Hat holdovers would have little say over things like "assets". If Big Blue has changed, it would be in things like letting devs work in T-shirts and hang surfboards over their desks. But when it comes to anything to do with assets, this would continue to be the exclusive domain of the suits.
    I've never head to deal with IBM directly. I have noticed though, that most companies have shown that it benefits their own interests to contribute to Free and Open Source projects. Google helped pioneer the Chromium project, which has produced many different Web Browsers over the years, including now, Microsoft's Edge.

    I mean, Canonical itself is more of a "tech-support" company (for lack of a better term). They make their money in professional software support. They also contribute to MANY different Open Source projects such as Snaps and Launchpad (PPA's). Whether or not we like these services (I'm not big into Snaps yet), they do offer assistance to the entire Linux community.

    Canonical even tried changing up the formula too with ideas like Unity and Mir. Both of which may not have stayed around too long, but were great ideas, and forward thinking. Again, whether or not we like these ideas, they contribute a lot to the Linux community.

    I guess what I am getting at, is that IBM may have just shot themselves in the foot.
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  8. #28
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Wow. A world of thoughts to unpack here. Many are not aware of this, but IBM makes significant contributions to the Linux kernel. I assume they make similar contributions to other FOSS projects, but I'm less sure of this.

    They do this out of enlightened self interest. IBM realizes that by supporting Linux, they get the benefit of a resource that is orders of magnitude more valuable than the resources they put in. If they make no contribution, then the health of this goose is imperilled. No more golden eggs. So they do their part to feed the goose. They get to bask a little in the reflected glory too, which is always valuable to any company that wants to burnish its image.

    Their problem with CentOS is that it doesn't feel valuable. If anything, it feels like a parasite. On a perfunctory level, it appears to draw potential users away from their revenue generator: RHEL. Why pay for Red Hat if you can install a free version? Solution: get rid of the free version. It's a really dumb and shortsighted thought process, but that's the way a suit thinks.

    So what will happen? Here's a thread posted just now on our very own forums from a CentOS refugee: CentOS Transplant (I hope the OP doesn't mind my using him as a reference). This is going to happen in droves. Instead of driving their CentOS users to RHEL, those poor souls will move to Debian/Ubuntu, or Arch, or Gentoo, or Slack. And they will have a very foul taste in their mouths for IBM.

    Organizations like IBM simply have no feeling for the value of a community. They don't get the fact that although CentOS users may not be feeding their bottom line directly, those users have a ton of indirect influence over things like the popularity of RHEL, eventual adoption of paid Red Hat support as the enterprise grows, introduction of budding devs and new enthusiasts to the RHEL ecosystem, mind‑share, cachet, reputation and, not least, the awesome benefits derived from sheer genius.

    An example of the latter is CERN. There's no assembly of expertise more frighteningly lofty than the collective geniuses at CERN. They discover new matter by smashing subatomic particles together at almost‑luminal velocities for crying out loud. They also run on CentOS. Presumably, they are so tech savvy that they know more about Linux than IBM. Certainly, they feel no need for paid support. But in return for the use of a "free" OS, they churn out innovations in apps, services, cluster tech, cloud tech, supercomputing tech etc etc that dwarf what they would pay in services. IBM derives immense value from these innovations, but they can't wrap their heads around the simple fact that such derivation is due in part to the communal nature of CentOS.

    Google doesn't think that way. Google gets the above concept in spades. You would never see Google neutralizing a large and vibrant FOSS community because it wasn't contributing to the immediate bottom line, or because Google got tired of supporting that non‑paying community.

    I'd love to see CERN now move to Ubuntu. But it's more likely that a collection of such tech‑heads will choose Arch.

    So yes, I too think IBM have shot themselves in the foot (yet again!). I've given up expecting them to understand or appreciate mass markets or alien concepts like "communities". They just can't seem to get their heads wrapped around anything to do the hoi polloi.

  9. #29
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    Why should anyone be worried about what happens to CentOS, especially here?

  10. #30
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    Re: What is your opinion about CentOS ?

    My opinion is that it was a good server OS used by many- It will force some corps to get paid support for RHEl or find an alternative. But as Chanath said why are we worried about it here.
    Some may even migrate to Ubuntu
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