Originally Posted by
markf2
This is funny to me. I participated in 20.04 testing. I reported that problem (among a few other Calamares problems, such as ambiguous GPT-creation failures -- which didn't seem like errors you went back and looked at the finished result). I was told the "ESP" flag problem (you described) was "just semantics."
I miss the old Lubuntu so much. When it was LXDE, and maybe Mario had it then. Now it's like nobody cares. I was beating my brains out with that random GPT failure (which didn't seem to be a failure when you went back and looked at the disk.). Then I learned it had been known for months, and nobody had even proposed that Calamares add more error capturing (context reporting). Everyone seemed fine with just living with it as "someday we'll see a pattern." Worse than that, they wouldn't even enable Calamares extended error/debug reporting to make it easier to find a known problem (a random problem benefiting from always-on opportunities like that.). I wasted 2-3 weeks before someone told me I should enable that for myself. A week or two later I learned this was an existing issue for months. It's like they enjoy working harder, ignoring usability issues, etc. (After that I was depicted as merely complaining, not "helping.").
None of that's really funny. What's funny is that I was just now, for the first time, trying to install Lubuntu 20.04 and ran into this very familiar problem. I googled to see if anyone else had found it. And there you were! Reporting the same thing. Linking to a bug where the Calamares people downplay the matter, as if usability doesn't matter, just as they did last February.
I told the Lubuntu people to just go back to Ubiquity until Calamares is usable. (But, then, of course, I was complaining, not speaking like a rational person.).
IMO, Lubuntu isn't ready for primetime. (It's conceptual.). They complain that they can't get enough people to help. But then, have zero care for the time they cost people who help. I mean, at some point, "helping" becomes *enabling*. This Calamares matter is a perfect example. I would have gone back to Ubiquity (and had a working installer) months before some volunteer suggested it (after wasting countless hours of his time). They were just shooting in the dark, expecting everyone else to. (They didn't even enable extended debug/reporting as a default -- to make the most of any opportunity to see a pattern. It's still there. I just got the gpt error/non-error again!).
I guess what twisted my nose out of joint about all this is the narrative like above would be met with tedious, red-herring, distracting "it's not 'extended debug/reporting,' and that's why nobody should pay attention to you." I swear to God! Some semantic mistake in the details, and the entire larger point means nothing. Whatever it was, I was supposed to have been using it -- and all those random encounters were less valuable. At a time when they knew the problem existed for MONTHS. When asked why that wasn't the default in the daily image... now I'm complaining. They need people to help, not complain.
That's the attitude which led to you having to report what you just reported (to people who wasted a ton of time -- while wishing they had more of.). IMO this is a perfect example of why Linux can't acquire a credible portion of Microsoft's market. How would a new user navigate the ESP error message (when there's no ESP flag, and it's dismissed as "just semantics.")? Or, the seemingly pointless GPT-creation error? How badly does the Linux community want to compete against Microsoft -- when a blind eye is turned to garbage like that (instead of going back to the normal, default installer until Calamares gets their act together)?
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