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Thread: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

  1. #11
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKiller View Post
    Yes, you're wrong.

    This has already been discussed before.
    But what about some points I hear about...like:

    1) closed source infrastructure, proprietary store
    2) centralised instead of decentralised
    3) forced autoupdating
    4) can’t opt out of the non-FOSS packages
    5) no option to audit things
    6) deceiving: secretly installing snaps instead of debs
    7) "flatpaks tell you upfront what permissions they need to operate when you install them but snaps don't"
    8) to the point of favoring convenience for the developers over the freedom of the users....I hear then something like this on forums: "this is indeed less interesting for the end user but devs that i talk to are most of the time really thrilled by the ease of packaging a snap.".....i think this guy "ogra", who said that, even works at Canonical......

    Again, I'm a noob who doesn't even use the terminal (much), but it seems to me that Ubuntu is more an more moving away from open source, in which I do ask myself, why don't I just go back to Windows then.
    Last edited by howefield; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:34 AM. Reason: removed obfuscated profanity.

  2. #12
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    Quote Originally Posted by kevindoor77 View Post
    But what about some points I hear about...like:

    1) closed source infrastructure, proprietary store
    2) centralised instead of decentralised
    3) forced autoupdating
    4) can’t opt out of the non-FOSS packages
    5) no option to audit things
    huh? it's a package that has all the needed components. think portable apps files on windows.
    6) deceiving: secretly installing snaps instead of debs
    it's not deceiving, if it is published in release notes.

    7) "flatpaks tell you upfront what permissions they need to operate when you install them but snaps don't"
    8) to the point of favoring convenience for the developers over the freedom of the users....I hear then something like this on forums: "this is indeed less interesting for the end user but devs that i talk to are most of the time really thrilled by the ease of packaging a snap.".....i think this guy "ogra", who said that, even works at Canonical......

    Again, I'm a noob who doesn't even use the terminal (much), but it seems to me that Ubuntu is more an more moving away from open source, in which I do ask myself, why don't I just go back to Windows then.
    i can't comment on 7, but to me the idea of portable package in linux seems a good one. i am not sure what freedom of user is mentioned here. you can install it or not. you can install older version on new OS or new version of app on old OS. seems like freedom to me. and the package as i understand is containerised and you can still see the source, right? so what is this huge difference? because they are all in snapstore? well how well did it work out when there was no central repo in android? even now that is centralized malware still creeps in.
    Read the easy to understand, lots of pics Ubuntu manual.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    think portable apps files on windows
    No, I don't want to think Windows! At all. Ever.

    More centralization leads to less freedom and more closed sorce.

    One way of getting around this is to compile the apps you need yourself. I've already started this with some apps.

    Another way is to avoid distros with snap and go to distros like PCLinuxOS or Mint.

    PCLinuxOS doesn't even have systemd. Great!
    Any follow-up information on your issue would be appreciated. Please have the courtesy to report back.

  4. #14
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    Quote Originally Posted by kevindoor77 View Post
    But what about
    Yes, that was all covered in the other thread.

  5. #15
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    but it seems to me that Ubuntu is more an more moving away from open source,
    You are entitled to your opinion. Of course you are. I do not see any evidence for this accusation. But then again I have only been using Ubuntu for more than a decade. What do I know?

    Using a FOSS distribution does not take away our freedom to use an OS or application for which a licence has to be purchased. Are you saying we should be denied the right to use proprietary software? I do not own a smartphone but it is not because I joined some kind of cult where buying a closed source OS as part of the purchase price is forbidden.

    in which I do ask myself, why don't I just go back to Windows then.
    You have the freedom to do that. If you did it would not trouble me one little bit.

    Regards.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


  6. #16
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    Here are my questions:

    1. Have we given Snaps enough time to mature?
    I have a couple of Snaps installed, and they don't run as quickly as other packages. Some Snaps that I have installed, do not have the same functionality as regular packages also. MakeMKV will not allow me to select a different place to save my rips, whereas the regular package does.

    2. Why have multiple forms of this?
    Snaps, Flatpak, Docker, AppImage, etc... Is this another way of separating distributions like .RPM and .DEB did?
    Holy Cripes on Toast!
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  7. #17
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    2. Why have multiple forms of this?
    Snaps, Flatpak, Docker, AppImage, etc... Is this another way of separating distributions like .RPM and .DEB did?
    That is what is most likely to happen but it is not intentional. There are some distributions that are commercial enterprises. Whether the people running those commercial organizations have a master plan to rule the world, I cannot say. Free & Open Source Software allows and often encourages diversity. One way to prevent it happening is to take out the competition. I can think of a couple of corporations (non-FOSS) that have been very good at doing that over the decades.

    As long as the source code continues to be licensed under an open source licence then there will be those who will set themselves the goal of keeping Linux free & open source with the benefits and disadvantages that come with it.

    Regards
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530


  8. #18
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibblet View Post
    I have a couple of Snaps installed, and they don't run as quickly as other packages.
    You'll probably find that they run fine, but take a long time to start up. The filesystem is squashfs, and all of the environment stuff that the application's expecting need to be faked because it's sandboxed. That takes time. Second run is generally a lot quicker, since that stuff's already set up.

    MakeMKV will not allow me to select a different place to save my rips, whereas the regular package does.
    Snap applications are sandboxed. You need to give them permission (removable-media) to be able to access files that aren't in your Home folder. You can do it in the Snap Store, or make the connection with the snap command.

    Snaps, Flatpak, Docker, AppImage, etc...
    Snaps, like Unity and Mir, were created for the Ubuntu Phone, since the technologies available at the time (AppImage, Gnome, X11) weren't up to the task. Flatpak came later.

    Docker is most of the way to a VM rather than just distributing single applications.
    None but ourselves can free our minds

  9. #19
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    Re: Linux Mint ditches Snap and Snapd

    Quote Originally Posted by Shibblet View Post
    Here are my questions:

    1. Have we given Snaps enough time to mature?
    I have a couple of Snaps installed, and they don't run as quickly as other packages. Some Snaps that I have installed, do not have the same functionality as regular packages also. MakeMKV will not allow me to select a different place to save my rips, whereas the regular package does.
    probably not. the idea is young and from Ubuntu point it just came to LTS users ("stable OS lovers"). Over the next few years we could expect more scrutiny and hopefully bug reports from the users that hop from LTS to LTS. it is only then that issues will get triaged and then hopefully addressed. bug changes and implementing inovation takes time. the more people use the software the more refined it gets. since 10.04 the only time i went with non LTS was when i installed 11.10 as it supposedly resolved my sound issue. partially it was true. but then 12.04, 14.04 and now 18.04 (yes i skipped the 16.04 due to upgrade bug). i plan to upgrade to 20.04 next year or maybe i will stay on 18.04. i am still deciding.
    Read the easy to understand, lots of pics Ubuntu manual.
    Do i need antivirus/firewall in linux?
    Disk backup (works on newer PC): Clonezilla
    User friendly full disk backup Redobackup is now back as Rescuezilla

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