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Thread: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

  1. #41
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Do not know for sure, but Windows 8 was the first with UEFI Secure Boot.
    Many UEFI/BIOS have setting that says "Windows" or "Other", others have UEFI Secure Boot on or off.
    The one's using "Other" type setting have fine print somewhere that says if booting Windows 7 in UEFI mode, use "Other". Windows 7 does not support UEFI Secure Boot that started with Windows 8 in 2012.

    I have seen a lot of reasons to just update UEFI. Not specifically your model. But a couple of examples on why you typically do want to update.

    Last year AMD put out a fix that was required for Linux to work. But motherboard vendors had to push out new UEFI updates with that fix.
    AMD UEFI/BIOS update for Ryzen 3000 series
    https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pa...OS-Update-Good
    ASUS ROG CROSSHAIR VIII HERO WiFi - update supports Ubuntu 19.04
    MSI has also put out BIOS updates in Aug as a "beta" though without explicitly acknowledging the Linux fix.

    This would not apply to your older cpu, as it does not speculate.
    And almost all newer cpu including your Raspberry Pi and IBM mainframe that speculate on what next bit of code will be and load it into RAM before needing it, have needed UEFI updates. And Both Linux & Windows updated operating systems, also.
    Almost all systems need UEFI updates, anyway, for mitigation of Meltdown and Spectre CPU vulnerabilities from cpu speculative execution and caching.
    Ubuntu 18.04 LTS has the Linux 4.15 kernel, GNOME Shell 3.29.1, Mesa 18.0-rc5, GCC 7.3.0, Python 2.7.15rc1, Python 3.6.5, and is mitigated for Meltdown with KPTI while for Spectre V1 it opts for __user pointer sanitization over OSB and for Spectre V2 has full Retpolines.

    Or there are a lot of things in background going on, and not everyone knows all the details.
    For more info on UEFI boot install & repair - Regularly Updated :
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  2. #42
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Do not know for sure, but Windows 8 was the first with UEFI Secure Boot.
    Many UEFI/BIOS have setting that says "Windows" or "Other", others have UEFI Secure Boot on or off.
    The one's using "Other" type setting have fine print somewhere that says if booting Windows 7 in UEFI mode, use "Other". Windows 7 does not support UEFI Secure Boot that started with Windows 8 in 2012.

    Or... there are a lot of things in background going on, and not everyone knows all the details.
    Thank you 'oldfred'... I've got a working view now.

    So I put in ver. 2.10. Did not come into proud ownership of a new brick. Pretty sure there are no differences in the BIOS pages. Did not acquire either a 'Secure Boot' switch or 'Windows'/'Other' choice. And still did not find discussion of what constitutes "Windows 8 Support" for changes to a Windows 7 machine. But I AM happy with my SMBus reordering... =]

    Wondering a thing... I've come across folks having troubles with getting up and running with Linux (different manufacturers and BIOS related) where a solution was found having put password(s) into BIOS... seemingly needing 'Supervisor/Administrator'... if I'm remembering well. Under BIOS Password I've got 'User' and 'Supervisor' ('Not Registered' --set to now-- or a password entry area for each). Under HDD/SDD Password there is 'Mode' (User Only or User+Master) with User below ('Not Registered' --set to-- or a password entry). Is this a 'Do it when/if' thing... or ??? And just thought that last maybe only has relevance if Windows is in the machine...

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Krall; May 31st, 2020 at 06:20 AM.

  3. #43
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Acer for one, has the UEFI password to get more settings and allow "trust". It seems to be the only one that works well, but requires user to trust a new UEFI entry.
    Most of the UEFI have password so you cannot change settings for security reasons. Anyone with physical access to a system then can compromise syste. With UEFI Secure boot, no boot from USB or external devices set in UEFI, and UEFI password, so you cannot change those settings, you can have a pretty secure system.

    I do not set a UEFI password on my systems which are desktops, so security a bit less critical as always in office at home.
    We do see multiple cases of users who say they forgot UEFI/BIOS passwords. Hope they are not breaking into someone else's system and have really just forgotten UEFI password. It is one password if set you cannot forget.
    Last edited by oldfred; May 31st, 2020 at 02:14 PM.
    For more info on UEFI boot install & repair - Regularly Updated :
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  4. #44
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    Acer for one, has the UEFI password to get more settings and allow "trust". It seems to be the only one that works well, but requires user to trust a new UEFI entry.
    Most of the UEFI have password so you cannot change settings for security reasons. Anyone with physical access to a system then can compromise syste. With UEFI Secure boot, no boot from USB or external devices set in UEFI, and UEFI password, so you cannot change those settings, you can have a pretty secure system.

    I do not set a UEFI password on my systems which are desktops, so security a bit less critical as always in office at home.
    We do see multiple cases of users who say they forgot UEFI/BIOS passwords. Hope they are not breaking into someone else's system and have really just forgotten UEFI password. It is one password if set you cannot forget.
    Thanks for all, 'oldfred'.

    Blue: Yeah, so I write them down. The "then what" is coming... when I can't remember where the paper is. Seemingly no solution when the access to passwords requires passwords point is reached.

    Mike

  5. #45
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    I had in middle of ring binder of other things, a page with passwords, but just scribbled all over. Got to point I could not read my own notes on passwords & phrases.
    I now use keypassx or keepassXC. Only have to remember one password & it lets me copy & paste passwords. Most sites work with auto entering the username & PW if cursor on correct field.
    For more info on UEFI boot install & repair - Regularly Updated :
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  6. #46
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    I had in middle of ring binder of other things, a page with passwords, but just scribbled all over. Got to point I could not read my own notes on passwords & phrases.
    I now use keypassx or keepassXC. Only have to remember one password & it lets me copy & paste passwords. Most sites work with auto entering the username & PW if cursor on correct field.
    Thank you 'oldfred'... I'll try to remember that. I need to do something before I can't remember I need to...
    ------------------------------------------------------------

    I've been reading. Trying to come to a working understanding of BIOS/UEFI... MBR/GPT (I thought I had things fairly straight from the /mnt/data thread... not really). Why? Well, I really never know why. I'll get over it.

    Here are things I feel I do understand. The machine's firmware is BIOS, not UEFI. The machine's partition table is MBR, not GPT. The two Linux installs need a MBR partition table. To run GPT the tricking ("not caring", I think you said) happens at /dev/sda1... small space... 1 - 2 MiB... boot_grub... unformatted.

    Then on... mindful of needing an extended partition at some point (thinking /dev/sda2) because of 2x /, 'swap', and 2x /home.
    ------------------------------------------------

    Because of Belarc Advisor scan: 1) Boot Mode: Legacy BIOS in UEFI (Secure Boot not supported)...and... 2) Under 'Main Circuit Board': UEFI: Insyde Corp. 1.50 (now 2.10). Thought down the road might be switching disk... might be needing ESP partition... might be 'who knows'. Based on that, thought to leave 512 to 1024 MiB unallocated after /dev/sda1 (maybe just have /dev/sda1 be that size), and make 4096 MiB at disk end (I like the look of the number).

    Also... because not doing MBR... and likely solidity of Ubuntu MATE 'GPT aware'... it seems like I ought to install it first (all OS partitions made with GPartEd prior). Maybe that helps putting in Linux Lite and avoiding potential problems.

    Anyhow... didn't need to do all that yapping. Taking a break from reading / searching.

    Mike

  7. #47
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    I am to the point of saying only use MBR if you must boot Windows in BIOS mode on same drive. Otherwise use gpt.
    I have used gpt since 2010. Time for MBR to go away.

    Most vendors call UEFI as BIOS. Since 2012 Microsoft required vendors to install Windows 8 in UEFI mode on gpt drives. So if system newer than 2012, it really is UEFI. UEFI currently has CSM.
    CSM - UEFI Compatibility Support Module (CSM), which emulates a BIOS mode

    MBR has the four primary partition limit and often uses the extended partition to hold logical partitions.
    Gpt has a 128 partition soft limit. User can change that (no idea how, and never seen anyone require it). Then all partitions are in effect primary.

    Links to lots more info at end of my post in link in my signature below.
    For more info on UEFI boot install & repair - Regularly Updated :
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  8. #48
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    I am to the point of saying only use MBR if you must boot Windows in BIOS mode on same drive. Otherwise use gpt.
    I have used gpt since 2010. Time for MBR to go away.

    Most vendors call UEFI as BIOS. Since 2012 Microsoft required vendors to install Windows 8 in UEFI mode on gpt drives. So if system newer than 2012, it really is UEFI. UEFI currently has CSM.
    CSM - UEFI Compatibility Support Module (CSM), which emulates a BIOS mode

    MBR has the four primary partition limit and often uses the extended partition to hold logical partitions.
    Gpt has a 128 partition soft limit. User can change that (no idea how, and never seen anyone require it). Then all partitions are in effect primary.

    Links to lots more info at end of my post in link in my signature below.
    I knew better than to do 'random yapping' last night... did it anyhow.

    I know better than to read a reply a couple of times and reply back quickly... doing it anyhow.

    There's a thing I must not understand... like I'm seeing a thing you and others have said (GPT, etc.) upside down... or backwards... or have (incorrectly) this-before-that... or have not picked up one or more pieces necessary to picture... or ???
    ---------------------------------------------

    There will be no Windows 7, therefore I will 'use GPT'. Not looking to do otherwise.

    The only step I see that I think is 'use GPT' is... /dev/sda1... 1 - 2 MiB... unformatted... bios_grub flag. Past that point, all I know is, I'm wrong.

    I'm not arguing 'oldfred'... I just don't get it.

    Mike
    Last edited by Mike Krall; June 2nd, 2020 at 07:20 PM.

  9. #49
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    I use gparted on a new drive or when totally repartitioning & reformatting a drive (erasing it).
    First thing is to select gpt under devices in top bar and change default from MBR to gpt. It only uses gpt for drives over 2TB or installers default to gpt if drive is blank and installing in UEFI boot mode. Ubuntu lets you install in UEFI boot mode to MBR drives. And does not seem to let you choose gpt if installing in BIOS mode.

    So you have to partition in advance.
    I now create both ESP & bios_grub but only really need one or the other. Originally had BIOS, so had to have bios_grub partition, but then thought I may move drive to a newer UEFI system so create booth. Now having UEFI systems, I just create ESP.

    The bios_grub is a tiny 1 or 2MB unformatted partition anywhere in the first 2TB of a drive. I normally make it first, so out of way. You right click in gparted to assign the bios_grub flag.
    Old screen shots but still the same with new graphics.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    For more info on UEFI boot install & repair - Regularly Updated :
    http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2147295
    Please use Thread Tools above first post to change to [Solved] when/if answered completely.

  10. #50
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    Re: Two Linux (Linux-learner) Backup-computer partitioning...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldfred View Post
    I use gparted on a new drive or when totally repartitioning & reformatting a drive (erasing it).
    First thing is to select gpt under devices in top bar and change default from MBR to gpt. It only uses gpt for drives over 2TB or installers default to gpt if drive is blank and installing in UEFI boot mode. Ubuntu lets you install in UEFI boot mode to MBR drives. And does not seem to let you choose gpt if installing in BIOS mode.

    So you have to partition in advance.
    I now create both ESP & bios_grub but only really need one or the other. Originally had BIOS, so had to have bios_grub partition, but then thought I may move drive to a newer UEFI system so create booth. Now having UEFI systems, I just create ESP.

    The bios_grub is a tiny 1 or 2MB unformatted partition anywhere in the first 2TB of a drive. I normally make it first, so out of way. You right click in gparted to assign the bios_grub flag.
    Old screen shots but still the same with new graphics.
    Thanks 'oldfred'...

    Blue: I'd like to be sure I understand. My read is: Both get created, but you could just create one or the other. If I'm understanding... they are both there but the OS finds the one it needs... that, it doesn't see the other... and... if just creating one, it would be for the machine type? (In my case bios_grub)?

    If I have that right...

    It's really unlikely the drive would move. Are there other reasons a person would want to create both bios_grub... unformatted and /boot/efi... unformatted in the GUID partition table?

    Mike

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