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Thread: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

  1. #11
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    It doesn't have its own OS, but it can run applications and have a shell. The bootloader and firmware setup are both UEFI applications, for example.

    BIOS was reverse-engineered and then extended in all sorts of opaque and proprietary ways, and making any implementation work well didn't sell new systems; being able to more-or-less launch DOS and, later, Windows was the only thing that was tested for.

    By contrast, UEFI is actually a defined standard, and has explicit support for multiple operating systems and different architectures; it's no longer based on the limitations of the 8080.

    It's not perfect - Microsoft's wishes play too strong a role in the defaults that are commercially viable, for example - but it's a whole lot better than what came before.

    Being able to update the firmware from within the firmware - or from a button press to launch the firmware updater - has been standard for a long time. That behaviour only tends to not be there if the manufacturer has gone to the effort to take it out - tightly integrated platforms like laptops where the manufacturer prefers obsolescence to easy serviceability, for example.

    There's also Coreboot as an alternative to either.

    We're getting off topic from OP's wish for computers with explicit Linux support from the manufacturer, so I'll point out that the Intel NUCs have that. There was also a Kubuntu laptop released recently.

  2. #12
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKiller View Post
    If you aren't using UEFI then you're doing it wrong.
    i really don't care. my current laptop is 6 years old and it works. it's from System76 and i'd buy from them, again, if they had an offering that meets my needs.

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKiller View Post
    BIOS was an ancient pile of kludges, weirdness, and undocumented behaviour. No machine uses it now. They're all UEFI, which can be made to emulate those kludges, that weirdness, and that undocumented behaviour.
    if they all use it then why bring up the issue, unless there is (still) a problem booting up a Linux kernel, including one you compile from your own (possibly modified) copy of the kernel source code? you tell me. can you build a Linux system from pure source code and boot it up on a UEFI system? if i take the latest Ubuntu or Xubuntu ISO hybrid image, dd it (i have my own tool that does this without flooding page cache so it doesn't cause the system to waste time swapping other stuff out and back in) to a USB memory stick device, which boots just fine on this laptop, and boot it on one of today's all-are-UEFI computers?
    You can't have my Windows 95 until you pry it from my cold dead 1 GB IDE hard drive.

  3. #13
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    and what about an old copy of Ubuntu 9.10 i found laying around the other day? it was the copy i install Ubuntu for my father when he got too upset with all the pop-ups he kept getting in Microsoft Windows. he used that laptop until we had to put him in a nursing home a few years ago, just before he passed away. someone else in the family got that laptop and i have no idea what it runs now.
    You can't have my Windows 95 until you pry it from my cold dead 1 GB IDE hard drive.

  4. #14
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaperen View Post
    if they all use it then why bring up the issue, unless there is (still) a problem booting up a Linux kernel, including one you compile from your own (possibly modified) copy of the kernel source code?
    You brought it up.

    Of course you can compile a kernel and boot it from UEFI. How exactly do you think everyone's computers work?
    None but ourselves can free our minds

  5. #15
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    the confusion is caused because people think uefi and windows "secure boot" are one and they same. they are not. UEFI enabled the windows to have the "secure boot" function implemented. however, per UEFI standard, this function should be optional. some did not follow the standards.

    UEFI on the other hand is upgraded BIOS.

    more on UEFI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unifie...ware_Interface

    The Linux kernel has been able to use EFI at boot time since early 2000,[88] using the elilo EFI boot loader or, more recently, EFI versions of GRUB.[89] Grub+Linux also supports booting from a GUID partition table without UEFI.[17] The distribution Ubuntu added support for UEFI secure boot as of version 12.10.[90] Further, the Linux kernel can be compiled with the option to run as an EFI bootloader on its own through the EFI bootstub feature.
    windows on the other hand was able to boot from EFI about 2 years later :
    Last edited by mastablasta; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:40 AM.
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  6. #16
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKiller View Post
    Just feed it the file on a thumb drive.
    in ext4 file system format?
    You can't have my Windows 95 until you pry it from my cold dead 1 GB IDE hard drive.

  7. #17
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaperen View Post
    in ext4 file system format?
    FAT is part of the specification.

  8. #18
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKiller View Post
    Of course you can compile a kernel and boot it from UEFI. How exactly do you think everyone's computers work?
    maybe they were using some special bootloader. based on what i read about UEFI it was going to check if what it loaded was signed with a certificate that was signed by whoever it trusted and that this would be doable for major distros. then i quit reading about UEFI.
    You can't have my Windows 95 until you pry it from my cold dead 1 GB IDE hard drive.

  9. #19
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    Quote Originally Posted by CatKiller View Post
    You brought it up.
    not me. looking back, i see that oldfred did.

    is UEFI no longer a barrier to booting unsigned systems?
    You can't have my Windows 95 until you pry it from my cold dead 1 GB IDE hard drive.

  10. #20
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    Re: list of vendors that sell hardware ready for Linux

    will any PC with compatible USB and/or storage devices boot up any Linux bootloader and kernel at least as far as getting the kernel to start?

    i have found a laptop that meets my needs (128GB RAM) but it is made by a company with a record of Linux incompatibility.
    You can't have my Windows 95 until you pry it from my cold dead 1 GB IDE hard drive.

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