"Being open source is killing Android"

[ventrical]

My sympathies. I refuse to submit myself that form of torture any longer. If someone comes to me with an infected machine, it gets wiped and reinstalled from an image (if possible), I refuse to waste 2-6 hours worth of electricity and then have the scan fail.

Not to sound nasty, but I've better things to do than coddle Windows users, who do not understand that their OS is a badly designed cesspool without proper privilege separation. To be fair, I have an even lower opinion of Apple for other reasons.



Even Microsoft realizes that. Project Roslyn made me laugh. Some said it would never happen, but Microsoft really has no choice now.

I empathize with your honest anger here. Like second hand smoke, just hearing of some person infected with a Windows machine makes me physically ill but it is part of the Instructional Development mindset that I try to deploy as a migration assistant for 'spinners' who are detoxing from Windows. The mis-information and dis-information are like a plague. Some of the new stories I hear each day are epic and near make me weep. Having pity is no good and so I try to be firm in my pitch to instruct potential converts to linux/ubuntu or other form of linux-os. "You have to get with the program and learn the learning curve. "

Having said this; there will always be security vulnerabilities and persons trying to exploit them and we still (I still) have to be vigilant and realistic, keep my teeth and claws sharp so when I am trying to assist in a migration I can talk the malware crap talk with potential ubuntu noobs and follow up with them. With ubuntu , the old axiom holds true: "we have to give it away to keep it". eh ? New converts have to be detoxed from malware with a delicate patience. They have to be nurtured away from Windows-shock psyche with soft food, not coconut shells and acorns. They are trying to find their way back through the looking glass, to hop that free ride back to Kansas and we have to help them along like the good witch of the North 'There's no place like home.'

We can help where others cannot because we have been there, but , yes .. there is a certain saddle point that can break the camel's back and I've spent a lot of time in that desert.

Regards..

[Linuxratty]

Fragmentation and slow updates are not an open source problem.

And Android is not "all about being open". Android is all about making money.

Fragmentation happens because a zillion and one companies see a profitable market and jump in.
.

That's it in a nutshell. I've never used it.

[T.J.]

I empathize with your honest anger here...Having said this; there will always be security vulnerabilities and persons trying to exploit them and we still (I still) have to be vigilant and realistic, keep my teeth and claws sharp so when I am trying to assist in a migration I can talk the malware crap talk with potential ubuntu noobs and follow up with them. With ubuntu , the old axiom holds true: "we have to give it away to keep it". eh ? New converts have to be detoxed from malware with a delicate patience. They have to be nurtured away from Windows-shock psyche with soft food, not coconut shells and acorns. They are trying to find their way back through the looking glass, to hop that free ride back to Kansas and we have to help them along like the good witch of the North 'There's no place like home.'

We can help where others cannot because we have been there, but , yes .. there is a certain saddle point that can break the camel's back and I've spent a lot of time in that desert.

Regards..

Sorry about the rant...Some days are better than others as you well know. After so many years (fast approaching 30 now -- sheesh) in the computer racket - dealing with Microsoft, I just get tired of the whole mess, and your comments gave me an excuse to vent some frustration. Ironically most of the annoyance isn't users, but others fully brainwashed in the false history that Apple and Microsoft invented everything. The Linux crowd is not really different though. You have those who bash everything: Pulseaudio, Systemd, Mono, LSB etc. I doubt a single one of them has ever looked at the code, patched it or just spent the time to fix a problem without jumping ship, screaming like Chicken Little.

For many of us, it is very easy to get caught up in legitimate concerns. When Debian first adopted Systemd, I was definitely worried, especially with the talk about kdbus. I think most of the disaster never panned out, and kdbus still is not in the Linux kernel. For me, it served as an abject lesson on future happenings, an inoculation against the nonsense. Linux communities talk a lot, but the people who actually write the code are usually more reasonable.

The fragmentation fear that the press has always been spouting has never come to pass. Not with a single operating system that I have ever worked with has ever had a "fragmentation apocalypse." Not a single one - including Linux! I certainly don't know where they get their ideas. As long as the applications work, doom is averted. The applications are kept working by developers, who spend their time writing code. It's not a glory business, but someone has to do it.

You have the people who actually do the work and then those who just stand around and talk.

[mikodo]

"we have to give it away to keep it".

"Wherever I go, there I am."

"People who think they know it all are very irritating to those of us who do", always makes me laugh.

Short version

"Sit down, shut up and listen"

[CantankRus]

I empathize with your honest anger here. Like second hand smoke, just hearing of some person infected with a Windows machine makes me physically ill but it is part of the Instructional Development mindset that I try to deploy as a migration assistant for 'spinners' who are detoxing from Windows. The mis-information and dis-information are like a plague. Some of the new stories I hear each day are epic and near make me weep. Having pity is no good and so I try to be firm in my pitch to instruct potential converts to linux/ubuntu or other form of linux-os. "You have to get with the program and learn the learning curve. "

Having said this; there will always be security vulnerabilities and persons trying to exploit them and we still (I still) have to be vigilant and realistic, keep my teeth and claws sharp so when I am trying to assist in a migration I can talk the malware crap talk with potential ubuntu noobs and follow up with them. With ubuntu , the old axiom holds true: "we have to give it away to keep it". eh ? New converts have to be detoxed from malware with a delicate patience. They have to be nurtured away from Windows-shock psyche with soft food, not coconut shells and acorns. They are trying to find their way back through the looking glass, to hop that free ride back to Kansas and we have to help them along like the good witch of the North 'There's no place like home.'

We can help where others cannot because we have been there, but , yes .. there is a certain saddle point that can break the camel's back and I've spent a lot of time in that desert.

Regards..

I got lost in the hyperbole maze.

[ventrical]

I got lost in the hyperbole maze.

As I posted earlier on I have two RCA tablets that have android running on OEM ubuntu kernels and although the article referenced by OP suggests that Google may take over Android they cannot take over ubuntu/Canonical so I fail to see the hyperbole maze you reference

If you are referring to my content of experience, strength and hope, I kid you not , I do not embellish although I am not offended if somebody opines that to them it may appear to be psychobabble or pure conjecture. This , after all, is discussion thread and I like discussing things. It helps me think better and and clear my slates . And I like to read the feedback from others. Some of it inspires me to think harder. Some of it motivates me to brainstorm. Brainstorming helps me defragment my thoughts and in turn helps me to stay focused. I used to read zdnet articles all the time but most of the stuff on the net these days are mostly bifurcations of the truth.

Android is a practical demonstration of the sort of mess that Linux would have become if it had enjoyed widespread popularity with hardware OEMs. Someone, somewhere has to be in charge, and put the interests of the platform over profit margins and market share.

Obviously the author's research is not current otherwise they would have included that ubuntu/Canonical is providing the ubuntu kernels for several current form factors which android is running on, RCA to name just one. So the article has nothing to do with fragmentation. It is a rip at google and android and a veiled slam at Linux. I mean.. who cares if Android uses ubuntu kernels? Now that's hyperbole.

Regards..

[ventrical]

"People who think they know it all are very irritating to those of us who do", always makes me laugh.

Short version

"Sit down, shut up and listen"

+1

[ventrical]

Sorry about the rant...Some days are better than others as you well know. After so many years (fast approaching 30 now -- sheesh) in the computer racket - dealing with Microsoft, I just get tired of the whole mess, and your comments gave me an excuse to vent some frustration. Ironically most of the annoyance isn't users, but others fully brainwashed in the false history that Apple and Microsoft invented everything. The Linux crowd is not really different though. You have those who bash everything: Pulseaudio, Systemd, Mono, LSB etc. I doubt a single one of them has ever looked at the code, patched it or just spent the time to fix a problem without jumping ship, screaming like Chicken Little.

For many of us, it is very easy to get caught up in legitimate concerns. When Debian first adopted Systemd, I was definitely worried, especially with the talk about kdbus. I think most of the disaster never panned out, and kdbus still is not in the Linux kernel. For me, it served as an abject lesson on future happenings, an inoculation against the nonsense. Linux communities talk a lot, but the people who actually write the code are usually more reasonable.

The fragmentation fear that the press has always been spouting has never come to pass. Not with a single operating system that I have ever worked with has ever had a "fragmentation apocalypse." Not a single one - including Linux! I certainly don't know where they get their ideas. As long as the applications work, doom is averted. The applications are kept working by developers, who spend their time writing code. It's not a glory business, but someone has to do it.

You have the people who actually do the work and then those who just stand around and talk.

..and that was a very intelligent and well informed rant that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Than you very much.

Regards..

[ventrical]

Sorry about the rant...Some days are better than others as you well know. After so many years (fast approaching 30 now -- sheesh) in the computer racket - dealing with Microsoft, I just get tired of the whole mess, and your comments gave me an excuse to vent some frustration. Ironically most of the annoyance isn't users, but others fully brainwashed in the false history that Apple and Microsoft invented everything. The Linux crowd is not really different though. You have those who bash everything: Pulseaudio, Systemd, Mono, LSB etc. I doubt a single one of them has ever looked at the code, patched it or just spent the time to fix a problem without jumping ship, screaming like Chicken Little.

For many of us, it is very easy to get caught up in legitimate concerns. When Debian first adopted Systemd, I was definitely worried, especially with the talk about kdbus. I think most of the disaster never panned out, and kdbus still is not in the Linux kernel. For me, it served as an abject lesson on future happenings, an inoculation against the nonsense. Linux communities talk a lot, but the people who actually write the code are usually more reasonable.

The fragmentation fear that the press has always been spouting has never come to pass. Not with a single operating system that I have ever worked with has ever had a "fragmentation apocalypse." Not a single one - including Linux! I certainly don't know where they get their ideas. As long as the applications work, doom is averted. The applications are kept working by developers, who spend their time writing code. It's not a glory business, but someone has to do it.

You have the people who actually do the work and then those who just stand around and talk.

...and so the sum of the parts.. those parts that are supposed to be fragmenting are actually converging to what many might think a much more secure linux (at least in the case for xmir and ubuntu snappy).

Sorry for the long quote , but,

In March 2013 Canonical Ltd. announced Mir as the replacement display server for the X.Org Server in Ubuntu.^[6] Previously, in 2010, it had announced that it would use Wayland.^[30] Canonical stated that it could not meet Ubuntu’s needs with Wayland.^[15] There were several posts made in objection or clarification, by people leading other similar or affected projects.^{[31][32][33][34]}
When originally announcing Mir, Canonical made various claims about Wayland's input system, which the Wayland developers quickly rebutted.^[35][36] Official Canonical documentation in 2014 states, "our evaluation of the protocol definition revealed that the Wayland protocol does not meet our requirements. First, we are aiming for a more extensible input event handling that takes future developments like 3D input devices (e.g. Leap Motion) into account...With respect to mobile use-cases, we think that the handling of input methods should be reflected in the display server protocol, too. As another example, we consider the shell integration parts of the protocol as privileged and we'd rather avoid having any sort of shell behavior defined in the client facing protocol."^[37] In late 2015 Mir switched from a custom Android-derived input stack to Wayland’s libinput.^[38][39]
Longtime Linux kernel developer Matthew Garrett criticized the choice of licensing for Canonical's software projects, particularly Mir. Unlike X.Org Server and Wayland, both under the MIT License, Mir is licensed under GPLv3 – "an odd [choice]" for "GPLv3-hostile markets" – but contributors are required to sign an agreement that "grants Canonical the right to relicense your contribution under their choice of license. This means that, despite not being the sole copyright holder, Canonical are free to relicense your code under a proprietary license." He concludes that this creates asymmetry where "you end up with a situation that looks awfully like Canonical wanting to squash competition by making it impossible for anyone else to sell modified versions of Canonical's software in the same market".^{[2][40][41][42]} Garrett’s concerns were echoed by Bradley M. Kuhn,^[43][44] Executive Director of the Software Freedom Conservancy.^[45] Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation has stated that he supports dual-licensing of GPL software, as long as there are no proprietary extensions or proprietary versions of the free program.^[46]
In June 2013, Jonathan Riddell of Kubuntu announced that Kubuntu did not plan to switch to Mir. He stated "A few months ago Canonical announced their new graphics system for Ubuntu, Mir. It's a shame the Linux desktop market hasn't taken off as we all hoped at the turn of the millennium and they feel the need to follow a more Apple or Android style of approach making an OS which works in isolation rather than as part of a community development method. Here at Kubuntu we still want to work as part of the community development, taking the fine software from KDE and other upstream projects and putting it on computers worldwide. So when Ubuntu desktop gets switched to Mir we won't be following. We'll be staying with X on the images for our 13.10 release now in development and the 14.04 LTS release next year. After that we hope to switch to Wayland which is what KDE and every other Linux distro hopes to do"

In September 2013, an Intel developer removed XMir support from their video driver and wrote "We do not condone or support Canonical in the course of action they have chosen, and will not carry XMir patches upstream".

.. so despite the controversy, despite what could be called fragmentation actually made the road to convergence more practical and realisitic.

As you point out there are many who are just sitting on the sidelines, outside looking in, waiting to share the fruits of harvest. But that is what the ubuntu community is all about. Sharing. Some share back , those maybe being maintainers, triagers, developers and other contributors giving back in various different ways. No matter how large a contribution or how small, whether is be right or wrong it still builds the KB. The community is actually responsible for all the good things that have happened to ubuntu. It is a formerly proof of concept novel idea that has become a solid reality. The community design has been tested several times by several elements but it always seems to come out on top better than it was before. One would have to get by several well seasoned helmsmen to roll the sails up on this ship and IMHO the same applies to android development. The worst or best that can happen there is that it be replaced with an ubuntu/linux version or at least alternatives of this nature will be more available, ie; with snappy of course.

Regards..

[Wadim_Korneev]

In short, Android has become a mess, and the landscape has changed such that there's no reason for Google to keep on making an open source operating system, especially one that the competition can leverage.