installing ubuntu 14.04 on pre-installed windows 8 machine -- uefi or not?

[kimberly2]

hi guys, so i got a machine that has windows 8 pre-installed and i want to dual boot ubuntu with it.

so i was following this link: http://www.instructables.com/id/How-...th-W/?ALLSTEPS and doing alright. i used diskmgmt.msc from the command line to resize my C drive to ~480gb out of a total of ~980gb, and it appeared to work because not it appears as "unallocated".

i created a liveusb on my other ubuntu machine, using startup disk creator, and using a 14.04 .iso. that seems to have gone fine as well.

when i boot up the new machine with the usb in, and hit esc to select the boot device, my usb shows up in two sections: first, under a section "UEFI boot devices" and then i think another called "legacy devices", that include the cd drive and hard drive.

if i select the uefi one, it goes to the ubuntu menu with choices "try ubuntu without installing", "install ubuntu", etc.

at that point i go to install ubuntu and do the standard stuff, until i get to the part about overwriting the disk vs doing "something else" as they call it. because i want to keep windows, i select something else, and it brings me to gparted or something displaying my partitions.

here's where it got weird. what was clearly my big C drive that i split is still there as one ~980gb partition. so i did a bit of reading and asking and people suggested that it means that i have to do a uefi install. so i was following this guide: http://askubuntu.com/questions/22183...uefi-supported

and it said to run as administrator (in w8) the command "Confirm-SecureBootUEFI". this gave me:

Cmdlet not supported on this platform - Means your system does not support Secure boot and most likely you do not need this guide. You can install Ubuntu by simply inserting the LiveCD or LiveUSB and doing the installation procedure without any problems.

hm. but now i booted up my liveusb, and doing sudo fdisk -l gives me:

warning: gpt detected on /dev/sda! the util fdisk doesn't support gpt. use gnu parted.

now, if i do sudo gparted, it gives me a pretty long warning:

/dev/sda contains gpt signatures, indicating that it has a gpt table however, it does not have a valid fake msdos partition table, as it should. perhaps it was corrputpd -- possibly by a porgram that doesn't understand gpt partition tables. or perhaps you deleted the gpt table, and are now using an msdos partition table. is this a gpt partition table?

and asks me to select yes/no.

at this point i'm pretty lost. first question: based on this, do i in fact have uefi or not? one thing suggests no, the other suggests yes.

my second question is, how do i proceed?

thanks!!

[dino99]

'oldfred' posts/threads are the most usefull to explain the different cases (look inside that subforum)

[Bucky Ball]

Switch secure boot off in the BIOS. Make sure you have enough free space to install Ubuntu to. Shrink Windows partitions with Windows software.

If you have one giant Windows partition, where are you going to install Ubuntu??? You need to shrink the win drive, switch secure boot off, boot the Ubuntu install media in EFI and install in EFI if you want to keep Windows.

Installing Ubuntu in legacy mode, which looks like what you are trying to do, when Win is installed in EFI is not going to work. They need to be the same, either EFI or legacy, not one of each.

[kimberly2]

hi bucky ball, thank you for the reply.

however i thought the windows command i did (Confirm-SecureBootUEFI) was checking if my system supports secureboot, and by getting the result "Cmdlet not supported on this platform" it told me that it doesn't.

also, sorry if i wasn't clear, but what i meant before is that i already shrank the windows drive. now there's ~400something GB for ubuntu. so in windows my disk management looked just like this (taken from that guide): http://cdn.instructables.com/FPR/4RI...KGF2.LARGE.jpg except my numbers are different obviously.

the strange thing is that when i went to install it using the liveusb it didn't show the separate partitions (ie, the windows one and the one i just created using diskmgmt in windows), it just showed one big block. i actually just noticed that in the picture right above, he appears to have right clicked on the newly created unallocated space and there's an option "new simple volume" highlighted, but it doesn't say anything about that in the directions. was i supposed to do that too?

with regards to installing ubuntu in legacy mode, i'm not trying to do that specifically. i just want ubuntu installed on this computer and i don't care if it's uefi or legacy, i just want the easiest route.

the problem is that i'm getting conflicting info on whether w8 is even installed in efi: secureboot isn't supported, so i thought that meant no uefi, but fdisk talks about GPT, so i thought that does mean uefi.

what should i do?


edit: also one other question. in this askubuntu thread: http://askubuntu.com/questions/22183...uefi-supported

he says:

If you are using Ubuntu 15.04+, many issues are now solved, so there is no need to follow this guide except if you are using any Ubuntu version older than 15.04. Depending on the version you are using (12.04, 14.04, 14.10) you might need all or some of the steps provided in this answer.

If however, you are using 15.04+, rejoice!, in all tests I have done with 15.04+ there was no need to do any of the steps mentioned here, so enjoy Ubuntu in all of it's booting glory!.

should i just get 15.04 instead? is it stable? i don't really care about the ubuntu version either as long as it works and is stable. would doing it with 15.04 solve this problem?

[kimberly2]

okay i've figured out a little more but still confused.

i almost certainly have windows installed with uefi.

the windows partitions look the same (that is, with the new unallocated space) even after reboot when i use diskmgmt.msc, but from within ubuntu, the installer doesn't seem to.

running sudo fdisk -l gives me:

Disk /dev/sda: 1000.2 GB, 1000204886016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 121601 cylinders, total 1953525168 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 4096 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 4096 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x5f2763f9

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1   *        2048     2115583     1056768    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda2         2115584   963610623   480747520    7  HPFS/NTFS/exFAT
/dev/sda3      1922801664  1953521663    15360000   27  Hidden NTFS WinRE

Disk /dev/sdb: 7803 MB, 7803174912 bytes
241 heads, 62 sectors/track, 1019 cylinders, total 15240576 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00070c7a

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sdb1   *          62    15225897     7612918    c  W95 FAT32 (LBA)

so it actually DOES appear to be recognizing one of the partitions (i guess the shrunk windows one?).

however sudo parted -l gives me a warning about it might having a GPT table, and asks me if it is. if i say no, nothing interesting happens, but if i say yes:

ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ sudo parted -l
 Warning: /dev/sda contains GPT signatures, indicating that it has a GPT table.
 However, it does not have a valid fake msdos partition table, as it should.
 Perhaps it was corrupted -- possibly by a program that doesn't understand GPT
 partition tables.  Or perhaps you deleted the GPT table, and are now using an
 msdos partition table.  Is this a GPT partition table?
 Yes/No? y                                                                 
 Model: ATA WDC WD10EZEX-60M (scsi)
 Disk /dev/sda: 1000GB
 Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/4096B
 Partition Table: gpt
  
 Number  Start   End     Size    File system  Name                          Flags
  1      1049kB  1074MB  1073MB  ntfs         Basic data partition          hidden, diag
  2      1074MB  1451MB  377MB   fat32        EFI system partition          boot
  3      1451MB  1585MB  134MB                Microsoft reserved partition  msftres
  4      1585MB  983GB   982GB                Basic data partition          msftdata
  5      983GB   1000GB  16.8GB  ntfs         Basic data partition          hidden, msftdata
  
  
 Model: Kingston DataTraveler 2.0 (scsi)
 Disk /dev/sdb: 7803MB
 Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
 Partition Table: msdos
  
 Number  Start   End     Size    Type     File system  Flags
  1      31.7kB  7796MB  7796MB  primary  fat32        boot, lba

so it appears to NOT be seeing it there.

another place it explicitly DOES see the unallocated space is if i use the "Disks" utility:

[IMG]i.imgur.com/TrTsyhq.png[/IMG]

so i don't know what's going on but hopefully that will help, thank you.

edit: more info, doing sudo gdisk -l:

GPT fdisk (gdisk) version 0.8.8

Partition table scan:
  MBR: MBR only
  BSD: not present
  APM: not present
  GPT: damaged

Found valid MBR and corrupt GPT. Which do you want to use? (Using the
GPT MAY permit recovery of GPT data.)
 1 - MBR
 2 - GPT
 3 - Create blank GPT

Your answer:

i found and read some of this thread: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1956173 that discusses fixing gpt tables but it's not clear to me what actually got solved on how to fix it.

[ubfan1]

Maybe you had something called "dynamic partitioning" for Windows -- that is proprietary and needs to be turned off before doing anything else. Then once both OSes can agree on the partitions, you will be in better shape. (Also turn off the fast boot in the Windows power options, that prevents a normal boot from occurring). Boot repair might offer some fix, but I can't advise on its use. Things tend to get better with each release, but 14.04 should be in pretty good shape concerning UEFI.

[grahammechanical]

Has anyone confirmed from the manufacturer's web site or some other source if this machine has a UEFI boot system motherboard but does not support secure boot?

The UEFI 2.2 specification adds a protocol known as secure boot, which can secure the boot process by preventing the loading of drivers or OS loaders that are not signed with an acceptable digital signature.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unifie...ware_Interface

The fact that the motherboard does not support secure boot should not be taken as meaning that Windows 8.1 was not installed in EFI mode and that the hard disk is not GTP and further more that certain recommended steps for installing Ubuntu alongside Windows 8 do not need to be taken.

Having a PC with UEFI firmware does not mean that you need to install Ubuntu in UEFI mode. What is important is below:

• if the other systems (Windows Vista/7/8, GNU/Linux...) of your computer are installed in UEFI mode, then you must install Ubuntu in UEFI mode too.
• if the other systems (Windows, GNU/Linux...) of your computer are installed in Legacy (not-UEFI) mode, then you must install Ubuntu in Legacy mode too. Eg if your computer is old (<2010), is 32bits, or was sold with a pre-installed Windows XP.
• if Ubuntu is the only operating system on your computer, then it does not matter whether you install Ubuntu in UEFI mode or not.

To install Ubuntu in UEFI mode:

• Use a 64bit disk of Ubuntu. (Ubuntu32bit cannot be easily installed in UEFI mode. This is a problem if 32-bit UEFI is the only way your computer can boot, e.g. if you have a modern Intel Atom based laptop. In this case, you will need a complicated work-around.)
• In your firmware, disable QuickBoot/FastBoot and Intel Smart Response Technology (SRT). If you have Windows 8, also disable Fast Startup.
• You might want to use an EFI-only image to avoid troubles with mistakenly booting the image and installing Ubuntu in BIOS mode.
• Use a supported version of Ubuntu. Support for UEFI appeared in 11.10, but has become more reliable in next versions. Support for UEFI SecureBoot appeared in 12.10 and 12.04.2.
• Set up your firmware (BIOS) to boot the disk in UEFI mode (see the "Identifying if the computer boots the HDD in UEFI mode" paragraph below)

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

The initial problem seemed to be that the Ubuntu installer under the Something Else option did not see the unallocated space. Correct?

What do we see if we run the Ubuntu live session and load Gparted. Does Gparted see the unallocated space. Can it be used to create Ext4 partitions that the installer and the Something Else option will see?

Some principles I have learned for reading threads on this forum

1) Use Windows utilities to defrag Windows more than once, checking each time that Windows loads.
2) Use Windows utilities to resize/move/delete Windows partitions to create unallocated space.
3) have Windows repair disks
4) Use Linux utilities to create/resize/move/delete Linux partitions. e.g., Gparted.

I am wondering if Gparted from a live session will see something on that hard disk that the partitioner of the installer cannot see.

UEFI, GPT and Secure Boot are not usually problems when installing Linux. And have not been for a couple of years. Motherboard manufacturers that do not accurately comply with the UEFI specification are another matter.

Regards.

[kimberly2]

Maybe you had something called "dynamic partitioning" for Windows -- that is proprietary and needs to be turned off before doing anything else. Then once both OSes can agree on the partitions, you will be in better shape. (Also turn off the fast boot in the Windows power options, that prevents a normal boot from occurring). Boot repair might offer some fix, but I can't advise on its use. Things tend to get better with each release, but 14.04 should be in pretty good shape concerning UEFI.

hi, i've turned off fast boot. strangely, now doing sudo gdisk -l gave me basically nothing now. i'll check about the dynamic partitioning and report back.

[kimberly2]

Has anyone confirmed from the manufacturer's web site or some other source if this machine has a UEFI boot system motherboard but does not support secure boot?



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unifie...ware_Interface

The fact that the motherboard does not support secure boot should not be taken as meaning that Windows 8.1 was not installed in EFI mode and that the hard disk is not GTP and further more that certain recommended steps for installing Ubuntu alongside Windows 8 do not need to be taken.



https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UEFI

The initial problem seemed to be that the Ubuntu installer under the Something Else option did not see the unallocated space. Correct?

What do we see if we run the Ubuntu live session and load Gparted. Does Gparted see the unallocated space. Can it be used to create Ext4 partitions that the installer and the Something Else option will see?

Some principles I have learned for reading threads on this forum

1) Use Windows utilities to defrag Windows more than once, checking each time that Windows loads.
2) Use Windows utilities to resize/move/delete Windows partitions to create unallocated space.
3) have Windows repair disks
4) Use Linux utilities to create/resize/move/delete Linux partitions. e.g., Gparted.

I am wondering if Gparted from a live session will see something on that hard disk that the partitioner of the installer cannot see.

UEFI, GPT and Secure Boot are not usually problems when installing Linux. And have not been for a couple of years. Motherboard manufacturers that do not accurately comply with the UEFI specification are another matter.

Regards.

thanks for the reply, so what do you suggest i do? i can try and get any info you need from the liveusb or windows.

should i be trying 15.04 instead or would that lead to more problems?

[oldfred]

Not sure why you are getting any partition list with fdisk unless using the very new versions of Ubuntu that have a very new version of fdisk that actually works with gpt.
Windows only boots from gpt partitioned drives with UEFI.
Windows only boots from MBR(msdos) partitioned drives with BIOS.
There is such a thing as hybrid, which you want to avoid at all costs. It is used primarily by Mac which are UEFI, to boot Windows in BIOS Mode. But requires syncing the gpt & MBR partitions.
http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/hybrid.html

In post #5 your gpt list looks like a normal Windows gpt partitioned drive. But not sure why you then had any list in fdisk other than the normal one large gpt partition which is to prevent you from using fdisk and corrupting a gpt drive.

What brand/model system?

Most often the reason you do not see Windows partition is that you left fast boot or the always on hibernation on. But could be that Windows still needs chkdsk, which it always needs after a resize, ot other partition issues.

Fast Startup off
http://www.eightforums.com/tutorials...ndows-8-a.html
http://askubuntu.com/questions/14590...to-hibernation

Does Windows still boot?
In UEFI menu do you see both UEFI: and other boot options?
If a very new system, 15.04 may work slightly better as it has newer kernel & support software. But partition not seen issue will probably be the same.

Does gparted show NTFS partitions. There is a Windows reserved partition that gparted will show errors on as it is unformatted. But that is standard and it should not be formatted.

Partitions not seen in gparted
http://www.rodsbooks.com/missing-parts/index.html

With UEFI systems, you need to always boot in UEFI mode not BIOS/CSM/Legacy or else you may create issues. And do not use partition tools that are not gpt aware.