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Thread: Installation problem

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Installation problem

    When trying to install a fresh Ubuntu 14.04 or any version for that matter

    This problem often arises for Users.

    640 x 480 resolution ..........


    But if the right monitor settings came up and buttons were available to click to rectify this

    Then a user would not just dump it and think its a toy or actually works at this resolution

    But would set it up for their own system ........


    Installing Ubuntu becomes impossible when the computer detects 640 x 480

    Although the user could try changing the resolution - all the buttons needed are off the screen at
    this size though ..... could the developers consider having a accept button for resolution somewhere
    in the view .......... ( at the moment its guess work to get to the accept button which is off screen )

    You cannot do a install at 640 x 480 ....... for similar reasons and people must have come across this
    many times ........ but then must either give up or think the developers never thought it through as
    to how someone can make a alternative install in this situation when their setup is well capable of
    running Ubuntu ........

    I have 3 screens attached here TV Computer and VGA monitor ........ non allow me a install .........
    as things go off screen ........ and no where in the installation do I get a chance to set them up
    any different to what the computer detects ........ which is 640 x 480 resolution.

    Thoughts ?

    By the way even though edid information is available for the 40 inch TV
    the way Ubuntu detects it - it thinks its a 7 inch display !!!!

    Last edited by 23dornot23d; March 15th, 2014 at 12:51 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    London, England
    Ubuntu Development Release

    Re: Installation problem

    This virtual Ubuntu Developer Summit discussion is not exactly dealing with your problem but a related one.

    On monitors with a high pixel density, we need everything to be rendered larger so that it's legible. The unity team has a plan to address the desktop aspects of this for 14.04, but that leaves the grub boot menu and the plymouth splash screen unscaled. Identify the work that needs to be done for this.

    You will see just how difficult it is to give multi-monitor users some control over scaling to fit more than one monitor. Part of the problem is with OEMs not being accurate with the information in the EDID.

    I ask: Should we even attempt to install Ubuntu with more than one monitor connected? Is it asking too much of the Installer program?

    Oh, by the way. In an earlier post you wondered why a screenshot was showing three screens when you only had two screens. But in this post you have 3 screens: Laptop; TV/Monitor; and VGA monitor. Earlier post solved?

    Last edited by grahammechanical; March 15th, 2014 at 03:50 PM.
    It is a machine. It is more stupid than we are. It will not stop us from doing stupid things.
    Ubuntu user #33,200. Linux user #530,530

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Re: Installation problem

    The other one is my main computer I use it on the night time ....... but both are connected to TV screens as I find these serve the purpose ..... large enough to see from a distance and also giving out enough heat to keep me warm in winter time

    I actually only have this one connected via VGA and for the life of me cannot get both the TV and VGA to work
    as I want on this one .......... but I do not need to make problems up .........

    I have enough and wish that the monitors one was a simple one to solve .......

    ( I like the way you think though - minimise the problems - that is what I always try to do

    This is why I believe it would be a help to let the user decide or confirm *(what is right or wrong) - when all else seems to fail ......
    sometimes users can work if they have 1 or 2 screens plugged into their computer .......... one in the VGA and one into the HDMI ( on my daytime setup ) & ( one connected via HDMI on my night time setup ) .........

    but when they do not pick up correctly - the computer carries on setting things at 640 x 480 regardless of wherther or not its possible to install
    at this resolution as most things end up off screen - and the windows will not shrink or move up - to see what is below * ( so a install at this resolution is impossible to do ).

    Isolate what is going wrong ....... then give an answer that can rectify a problem ......

    The one that I tried to give above is to either make the accept button appear in a place where the user can get to it so screen sizes can be changed ........ at least that way the user can change the resolution themselves to one that is workable.


    * ( The other may be to add it into the install - but I know how the devs think ..... only the computer can choose as users make mistakes and the automatic configuration of the computer never does make mistakes )

    That is why my 40 inch TV is being reported as a 7 inch monitor ........ and I being a user would not know that
    this is wrong ...... so it would be stupid to have anything asking me if its correct in the install procedure.

    Also when it tells me I have 3 monitors - I could not count or see that there are only 2 visible to me ..........

    Larger Text - that is what we old folks need ....... keep working on that one .........

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    By the way

    I would not try to attempt to make you think that the picture I showed of 3 screens
    was actually of 3 screens as that would not be a problem - but when only one HDMI cable is
    plugged in it makes me wonder if some micro-switch is in the VGA and stuck or some other
    thing that for the life of me I cannot fathom how 3 monitor screens show when only 2 could possibly

    This is not the case on the Asus - therefore I posted to show 3 monitors were showing on a screenshot - when only one HDMI cable is plugged in connecting it to the TV ......... no VGA plugged in at all on that one.

    __________________________________________________ ___

    The computer I am on now typing this out is a dual core Acer Aspire ....... which is connected to both a TV (through HDMI) and to a monitor (through VGA) and for the life of me this too is giving me problems ....

    I usually only give comments to help people sort things out ........

    I run Ubuntu - Arch - Fedora - Wayland on KDE RB - Mint - Ultimate Edition 4.0 and 5 versions of the 14.04 Testing on different kernels plus many of the back versions of Ubuntu - also Knoppix Kanotix etc ( most are set up with different Display Managers - LXDE - XFCE - Enlightenment - KDE - Ubuntu Unity - Gnome-Shell etc .... )

    All the choices lead me to have a good feel - about how each one can perform - also knowing how the installers work for all of them and which work better than others .......

    But If I think of improvements because I go through so many installs
    then I will try to tell the people that can change the way they work .......

    Save me having to use workarounds all the time ....... and the many users that have to do what the computer
    could easily accomplish - just by asking for them to confirm certain things along the way.

    Like a list of attached monitors the computer thinks I have
    *( my response is only a yes/no to each one ) .... the computer says no

    Can my TV screen display work in a better mode than 640 x 480 ( can I change this )

    EDID information for the TV it reports back .......

    Display Device 2 (DFP-1):
         EDID Name             : ORN ORION
         Minimum HorizSync     : 14.000 kHz
         Maximum HorizSync     : 46.000 kHz
         Minimum VertRefresh   : 47 Hz
         Maximum VertRefresh   : 61 Hz
         Maximum PixelClock    : 80.000 MHz
         Maximum Width         : 1920 pixels
         Maximum Height        : 1080 pixels
         Preferred Width       : 1280 pixels
         Preferred Height      : 720 pixels
         Preferred VertRefresh : 50 Hz
         Physical Width        : 160 mm
         Physical Height       : 90 mm
    ....... the computer says no

    There needs to be a compromise somewhere between how much automation you can build into a process.

    But I do see why it is being done ......... but if it is reported back to the User for them to check at the end
    of the process ....... then that to me is a start.

    The VGA EDID information these being on the Acer Aspire laptop which has both VGA and HDMI ......

    GPU #0:
        Name      : GeForce 9300M GS
        PCI BusID : PCI:1:0:0
        Number of Display Devices: 3
        Display Device 0 (CRT-0):
           EDID Name             : LG W1946
           Minimum HorizSync     : 30.000 kHz
           Maximum HorizSync     : 61.000 kHz
           Minimum VertRefresh   : 56 Hz
           Maximum VertRefresh   : 75 Hz
           Maximum PixelClock    : 90.000 MHz
           Maximum Width         : 1360 pixels
           Maximum Height        : 768 pixels
           Preferred Width       : 1360 pixels
           Preferred Height      : 768 pixels
           Preferred VertRefresh : 60 Hz
           Physical Width        : 410 mm
           Physical Height       : 230 mm                              
    The laptop monitor information for EDID .... is below 
    Display Device 1 (DFP-0):
         EDID Name             : AUO
         Minimum HorizSync     : 54.715 kHz
         Maximum HorizSync     : 54.715 kHz
         Minimum VertRefresh   : 60 Hz
         Maximum VertRefresh   : 60 Hz
         Maximum PixelClock    : 96.300 MHz
         Maximum Width         : 1440 pixels
         Maximum Height        : 900 pixels
         Preferred Width       : 1440 pixels
         Preferred Height      : 900 pixels
         Preferred VertRefresh : 60 Hz
         Physical Width        : 370 mm
         Physical Height       : 230 mm
    So ......

    Ubuntu in 2 more years time ....... ( would feed back and a database - help the developers to set the screens up )

    Say that when Users rectified things it was sent back to them ........ electronically ...... like the bug reports.
    And what is the 5 year plan most big business's have them ..... or will desktops and monitors not be around then.

    __________________________________________________ _____________

    I will have a good look at the conference you mention - thank you for the information.

    Not sure what an easier way is though than asking a User to confirm some things at the end
    or if they cannot be bothered - just to skip it and allow the computer to choose as it does now.

    18 : 42 minutes into the font scaling problems ........ he says exactly what I expected ..........
    "If we need user input then we are doing something wrong"

    The thing is at the start someone said that the Edid information or information the computer recieves from X
    could be suspect ........ or to put it as he says - it lies to the computer ( a 6 foot wide monitor ).

    Which to me says at some point - you have to ask the user to confirm things ......... or at least give them
    one small program that will allow them to go in and adjust major things ........ like Screen sizes and the
    percentage size of TEXT relative to the overall screen height - obviously when this is 50% of the height of the
    screen it is not right.

    Most screens the height of text relative to the height of the screen is the thing that matters ........ the relationship
    needs to be set via variables ....... ( dpi and everything else needs calculating but as a percentage to the height of the
    screen - which obviously needs to be reported back correctly ......... by either the computer or the USer )
    Last edited by 23dornot23d; March 16th, 2014 at 02:14 AM. Reason: added remarks about the text scale issue on the video .......... for the conference . Also some more information.


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