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Thread: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

  1. #11
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    Even developers that whip up Android apps were beginners at one time.

    The original poster is an engineering student. So one could assume he intends to work as a developer.

    Yes, Python might be easier for you. But that is not what the OP asked. He asked, "What language of the three do you think is the most suited for beginners and why?"

    As opposed to looking only at the effort required, as you seem to do, I am also looking at the possible results.
    So my answer was not meaningless, it just came from using a slightly different set of criteria.
    Yes, 'a beginner' not 'beginner specifically planning to churn phone apps'. And what if he wanted to be a corporate drone whipping up windows-centric enterprise software? C# then?
    I have that funny feeling you consider python a joke language that is generally a waste of time for any 'serious' programmer.

    Expecting someone to learn only 1 language to rule them all and call it a day is not reasonable. Any programmer worth his salt knows a handful of languages at a respectable level.
    Beginners are supposed to learn stuff like functions, loops, conditionals first, things that exist in pretty much all languages and make for a solid base. Rigid structure of java shoving OOP down the throat, requiring ungodly amounts of boilerplate and a gig of memory worth of ide is not fun, on the other hand python that is expressive and very flexible is. Seriously, if you wanted your mother to learn programming 101, what would you choose, java or python?

    And effort vs results means a lot especially to beginners, because initial experience is what can make or break a novice programmer. Granted it was not java, but c++, but it's also a complicated language with a ton of gotchas and it did break me in the past, making me avoid programming for few years. Bash (yes, really) and python made coding fun again.
    Last edited by Vaphell; February 12th, 2014 at 01:18 PM.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    LISP, Algor, ADA, Fortran77 or later, there are a lot of languages that are useful and teach key programming concepts. Even juggling OP codes during assembly programming provides an appreciation of the computer arts. Anyone here program an analog computer using patch cables to solve a differential equation? Now that is programming.

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    Last edited by tgalati4; February 12th, 2014 at 04:47 PM.
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  3. #13
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaphell View Post
    I have that funny feeling you consider python a joke language that is generally a waste of time for any 'serious' programmer.
    You would be wrong. Just like I might be wrong if I said that maybe you always choose the easy path.

    Android apps are not just "phone apps." Many Android apps are tablet apps. And tablets are increasingly outselling PCs, with no let-up in sight. And soon I suspect the Android OS will become common on the dwindling desktop PC sales, so some Android apps will be all sorts of common desktop apps too.

    Yes, I am a serious programmer:
    I make my living developing system modules and firmware for various OS, mostly Windows and Linux based. When I provide a new driver to a customer I also provide a little application that will test and prove that my driver does everything to which we ageed. Sometimes that application is written in Python, sometimes in C/C++, sometimes Java. I give the customer that choice so that they can leverage my simple application as a cut-and paste jump-start for their development. As a system developer I've also written a boat-load of assembly. And out of curiosity I play with new languages all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaphell View Post
    Seriously, if you wanted your mother to learn programming 101, what would you choose, java or python?
    The original poster is an engeenering student, not your mother. He asked which language of these three, Python, C#, Java, he should learn. He did not ask for the easiest one of the three to learn. At this time I think Java will give the best return on his investment. Especially as PC sales dwindle and tablet sales explode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaphell View Post
    Granted it was not java, but c++, but it's also a complicated language with a ton of gotchas and it did break me in the past, making me avoid programming for few years.
    Yes, you had a hard time with C++ and so you gave up on it. As a hobbyist you had the luxury to give up. But the original poster appears to be an engeenering student preparing for a career.

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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Python, because it is overall, the most convenient language for learning. The natural syntax means students spend less time grokking code than with terser languages. Beyond the clean syntax Python’s flexible nature allows it to support all the common programming paradigms and concepts, which is very handy for someone who wants to learn programming as efficiently as possible.

    For example object-oriented, imperative, and even functional programming paradigms can all be introduced using Python. The dynamic typing system makes it easy to try advanced practices like “aspect-oriented” design and “inversion of control” through “dependency injection” without complicated libraries. Somehow, amazingly, Python handles all of these crazy ideas with the same grace it handles
    Code:
    print ‘hello world.’
    Edit: Even though, I'm a Java developer by profession.
    Last edited by slickymaster; February 12th, 2014 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Corrected a typo
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    The original poster is an engeenering student, not your mother. He asked which language of these three, Python, C#, Java, he should learn. He did not ask for the easiest one of the three to learn. At this time I think Java will give the best return on his investment.
    I see a lot of awful Java code, not caused by language difficulties but by lack of logic if not of common sense, so Java must be learnable by bad programmers. It even seems to attract them(*). I have to give an opinion on potential hires and someone who knows only Java is highly suspect.

    (*) though I suspect this is also true of C# but I have no first-hand experience.
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by ofnuts View Post
    I see a lot of awful Java code, not caused by language difficulties but by lack of logic if not of common sense, so Java must be learnable by bad programmers. It even seems to attract them(*). I have to give an opinion on potential hires and someone who knows only Java is highly suspect.

    I agree. But I would add that no language causes more bad code from more sub-par coders than does C++.

    In a perfect world (where I was in charge of such things) Java and C++ would not exist. Python and C would cover all those bases.

    Since tablets are becomming the mainstream computing device, I hope that Python becomes more popular for creation on tablets . While it is technically possible to create Android apps using Python, it is not at all feasible.

    According to the popular web-sites that purport to rank the current usage of programming languages, C is still the most used.

    Most, if not all, system-level programming is done in C (yes, assembly still exists as do horse saddles). And this does not look to change anytime soon. I never see a new language created as an attempt to address system-level programming. It just doesn't happen.

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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by xb12x2 View Post
    Yes, you had a hard time with C++ and so you gave up on it. As a hobbyist you had the luxury to give up. But the original poster appears to be an engeenering student preparing for a career.
    Who said i was a hobbyist? I studied telecom branch of Electronics and Information Tech and had just enough C++ to avoid any kind of programming for few years.
    At the MIT they use python in the intro courses, there must be some reason for that.
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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Did anyone do the survey?

    The idea was which is the easiest, not whether or not tablets had anything to do with it.

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    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Quote Originally Posted by nothingspecial View Post
    Did anyone do the survey?

    The idea was which is the easiest, not whether or not tablets had anything to do with it.

    From the survey:

    "This survey is designed to investigate three programming languages and see which of them most suitable for beginners who wants to learn programming".


    Define "most suitable". Nowhere does it say "easiest".

    Given only the choice of C#, Python, or Java, Java would be the "most suitable" for me to learn if I were starting out at this time. However, I think a better choice by far would be to learn C. But that isn't one of his choices.
    Last edited by xb12x2; February 13th, 2014 at 12:44 AM.

  10. #20

    Re: Comparison of three languages, which one is the best for beginners?

    Let's not let this thread get out of hand. We've had this discussion many times over (and I only went back one year). There's no consensus, but generally the people who suggest learning Java as a first language are in the minority; that's a fact of this forum and not a universal truth. It's my opinion that Python is much to be preferred over Java for learning programming, whatever Java's advantages may be for other purposes and regardless of what career goals one may have.

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