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Thread: Both a traditional and Unity desktop?

  1. #1
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    Both a traditional and Unity desktop?

    I hope Ubuntu follows (for once only) Windows proposed 8.2 and offer both a traditional and Unity desktop as an option. (I realize this can be done by a different DE now.) See this article.
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/20707...#tk.nl_pcwbest

  2. #2
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    Re: Hopefully Ubuntu will follow suit

    One menu is a long way from a so-called traditional interface.

    Software vendors who want their products used on phones and tablets obviously need to produce software suitable for those formats. But, the approach Microsoft is taking -- offering two very different interfaces in desktop Windows -- seems schizophrenic. The Metro interface seems suited for small devices with touch interfaces. The Win7 interface seems suited for desktops/laptop users who have reasons to run Windows applications. The logic of the forced marriage we see in Win8 escapes me.

    It's notable that Apple maintains iOS and OS X as distinctive platforms for distinctive architectures. Yes, each has influenced the other, but early fears that OS X would become iOS overnight were wrong. We'll likely see slow convergence of the two systems, over time, as hardware capabilities change. We won't see the sudden shotgun marriage Microsoft performed.

    Canonical is taking a third approach, i.e, one OS for all devices. Whether this will succeed remains to be seen. But, it seems a sensible approach for a smaller business lacking the resources of MS or Apple.

    I think interests in "traditional" interfaces are very well met by Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc., and by the ease of adding third-party efforts like MATE. (E.g., The entire KDE suite can be installed on Ubuntu Unity via "sudo apt-get install kde-full". It is, however, considerably more of an issue removing all the pieces pieces, once installed, which is something a surprising number of people seem to want to do.)

    And, there's the issue of needing to create larger install images if a second DE was included as an alternative. ISO's are already large enough to annoy some folks.

  3. #3
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    Re: Hopefully Ubuntu will follow suit

    Unity is already a traditional WIMP interface. It just has a different applications menu.
    I try to treat the cause, not the symptom. I avoid the terminal in instructions, unless it's easier or necessary. My instructions will work within the Ubuntu system, instead of breaking or subverting it. Those are the three guarantees to the helpee.

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  5. #5
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    Re: Hopefully Ubuntu will follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    One menu is a long way from a so-called traditional interface.

    Software vendors who want their products used on phones and tablets obviously need to produce software suitable for those formats. But, the approach Microsoft is taking -- offering two very different interfaces in desktop Windows -- seems schizophrenic. The Metro interface seems suited for small devices with touch interfaces. The Win7 interface seems suited for desktops/laptop users who have reasons to run Windows applications. The logic of the forced marriage we see in Win8 escapes me.

    It's notable that Apple maintains iOS and OS X as distinctive platforms for distinctive architectures. Yes, each has influenced the other, but early fears that OS X would become iOS overnight were wrong. We'll likely see slow convergence of the two systems, over time, as hardware capabilities change. We won't see the sudden shotgun marriage Microsoft performed.

    Canonical is taking a third approach, i.e, one OS for all devices. Whether this will succeed remains to be seen. But, it seems a sensible approach for a smaller business lacking the resources of MS or Apple.

    I think interests in "traditional" interfaces are very well met by Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc., and by the ease of adding third-party efforts like MATE. (E.g., The entire KDE suite can be installed on Ubuntu Unity via "sudo apt-get install kde-full". It is, however, considerably more of an issue removing all the pieces pieces, once installed, which is something a surprising number of people seem to want to do.)

    And, there's the issue of needing to create larger install images if a second DE was included as an alternative. ISO's are already large enough to annoy some folks.
    The problem with not including a second DE as an alternative at login is that it puts off new (ex-MS) users. As Linus Torvalde himself has noted, the main reason that Linux has not yet broken MS's stranglehold on the dekptop market is because MS comes pre-installed and ready to roll. Whilst is is certainly true that Ubuntu has certainly done a massive amount of work in terms of making making the install of Linux a hell of a lot easier, user freindly and out-of-the-box functional than any other linux distro hitherto, there is still the issue of having to download ISO's and install them. This is just a problem that will remain for the forseeable future until a major manufacturer can be persuaded to push Linux out pre-installed. However, with the introduction of Unity, a lot of new users coming from trad-DE's are put off even further, and completely uneccessarily in my view. This has been a major strategic error on the part of Ubuntu, I would argue, since it is at precisely this moment that loads of MS users are wanting to jump ship due to the train wreck that is the Win8 DE, only to find that the major Linux distro they are likely to have heard of more than any other is pushing a similarly tablet biased GUI with no traditional GUI shipped on board as an immediate alternative. Hell, even MS has realized their own strategic error on this and are now going to ship a traditional DE alternative with Windows 8.1. Now I know there will be plenty of posters on here who will correctly point out that it is a simple matter of installing Gnome desktop environment" (or other trad-DE) from the software centre. And they'd be right. But, the thing to understand is that for the majority of the populace, they don't want to have to deal with any of that upon initially installing a brand new OS they have no familiarity with. They just want to install and get on with whatever they use the PC for.

    Given all of the above, I would argue that it is imperative that both a tablet GUI and a trad-Desktop GUI are shipped as on-board alternatives.

    We do want to break MS's stranglehold on the market by bringing ex-MS users users over to Linux, right?
    Last edited by stevecook; December 13th, 2013 at 03:27 PM.

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    Re: Hopefully Ubuntu will follow suit

    But Unity is not like windows 8 metro at all...it is just a dock with icons, and people (windows users or not) are use to seeing icons on smartphones, tablets, macs, these days, so what's so off-putting about it?
    Sure, it isn't the traditional windows 7 style menu but if they are trying something different, why would they expect it to look identical to windows?

    And other then the unity launcher (dock) and "dash" search everything else in the ubuntu system looks quite conventional and familiar...not radically different like windows metro's interface...
    Last edited by craig10x; December 13th, 2013 at 03:30 PM.

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    Re: Hopefully Ubuntu will follow suit

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    But Unity is not like windows 8 metro at all...it is just a dock with icons, and people (windows users or not) are use to seeing icons on smartphones, tablets, macs, these days, so what's so off-putting about it?
    Sure, it isn't the traditional windows 7 style menu but if they are trying something different, why would they expect it to look identical to windows?
    Look, why do you suppose there has been a fall in the Ubuntu share of the linux market and a commensurate rise in the likes of Mint? i would argue that the above is a direct result of new users jumping ship from Win8 because of the tablet biased inteerface and looking for alternatives and finding the likes of Mint to service their needs more than Ubuntu Unity. I don't personally like the Unity interface, but I fully recognise there will be some who will love it and for tablets and other mobile devices, I can see it is actually ideal and would use it myself for such devices. However, there are a hell of a lot of people who want a trad DE for their desktops and Ubuntu is losing them (if they are not prepared to install gnome and then tweak it to re-instate certain features that have been dropped) or not bringing them on board in the first place (Win8 ship-jumpers)

    I detect a singnificant mentality of denial of the market reality in some of the posts on here, I am bound to say.
    Last edited by stevecook; December 13th, 2013 at 03:44 PM.

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    Re: Both a traditional and Unity desktop?

    Ubuntu will get gnome flashback session as my link to u+1 forum discussion in previous post.

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    Re: Both a traditional and Unity desktop?

    Quote Originally Posted by philinux View Post
    Ubuntu will get gnome flashback session as my link to u+1 forum discussion in previous post.
    If I've just read you correctly that a version of Gnome is going to come shipped as an on-board alternative GUI in the next Ubuntu, that's really excellent news. Because, if it does, then with both Unity and Gnome (tablet and trad GUI) Ubuntu becomes the killer out-of-the-box OS.
    Last edited by stevecook; December 13th, 2013 at 03:59 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Both a traditional and Unity desktop?

    Greetings,
    I don't get the idea that ex-Win users would prefer the traditional Gnome desktop. Every Windows customer I've supported used icons scattered all over the desktop. Unity just puts them all neatly on a launcher. When I tried Linux for the first time the Gnome menu was a roadblock and a hair puller. I am for one grateful to Canonical for designing something decent as an alternative. The Unity desktop is both intuitive and easy to adapt. I certainly am glad though that I had a short chance to use the Gnome desktop when I first started with Linux since it is used on Puppy Linux which I use for troubleshooting some problems. Everything has a place and traditional Gnome belongs in the past.
    rrnbtter
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