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Thread: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

  1. #21
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Linux Mint has targeted ads on the forums (which ubuntu does not) and no one over there complains about that...it's used for the same purpose...to bring some revenue in to help fund development...
    Meanwhile it is UBUNTU that has a chance of propelling linux into the mainstream, not Open Suse, Or Linux Mint, or Zorin, Or Arch, etc etc...so what do you do? abandon it....i don't know, doesn't make much sense to me...unless you feel that linux should be a geek lovers limited use operating system...i don't, i would LOVE to see Linux (through Ubuntu) get us a much larger user base...at least as much as apple's anyway (hard to compete with the 800 lb gorilla Microsoft...lol) ...

    As far as the privacy matter...if you use the internet...you don't have privacy...so you have to accept that or not use it...period...

    Canonical supplies an easy way to shut off the online searches, if you prefer not to have them on the dash search...I've tried Xubuntu myself...it's ok...but i prefer Ubuntu with unity because it feels more mac-like to me (which i like) is slicker and more polished
    Last edited by craig10x; January 11th, 2014 at 06:06 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    Linux Mint has targeted ads on the forums (which ubuntu does not) and no one over there complains about that...it's used for the same purpose...to bring some revenue in to help fund development...
    Meanwhile it is UBUNTU that has a chance of propelling linux into the mainstream, not Open Suse, Or Linux Mint, or Zorin, Or Arch, etc etc...so what do you do? abandon it....i don't know, doesn't make much sense to me...unless you feel that linux should be a geek lovers limited use operating system...i don't, i would LOVE to see Linux (through Ubuntu) get us a much larger user base...at least as much as apple's anyway (hard to compete with the 800 lb gorilla Microsoft...lol) ...

    As far as the privacy matter...if you use the internet...you don't have privacy...so you have to accept that or not use it...period...

    Canonical supplies an easy way to shut off the online searches, if you prefer not to have them on the dash search...I've tried Xubuntu myself...it's ok...but i prefer Ubuntu with unity because it feels more mac-like to me (which i like) is slicker and more polished
    There is a difference between ads on a webpage and ads cooked into your operating system. The operating system is your base to go out into the internet world, your base to consume data, or your base to create data; it should NOT be the property or playground or base of outside entities which hope to profit from you. Ads on television are fine because you choose to TURN IT ON; should coca-cola be allowed to paste ads on your living room wall now too? After all, Im sure they need the money...

    For all the things I hate about Microsoft, I have to say they created (or stole from someone else and made popular) a desktop paradigm that I have not been able to replace (taskbar, menu, quicklaunch, systray, clock). I could use only Openbox and Conky if necessary, but a panel is a plus for me. The merger of Microsoft's panel concept, Openbox's right click menu and client list menu, Linux's workspace integration and pytyle2's tiling is my favorite desktop setup. So, your point about condoning mac-like Unity is sort of moot- we all like different things. It all boils down to the base; who does the base work for, and how efficient is it at working? If Unity is efficient for you, great- it isnt for me, and my setup might not be for you. But thats not the real issue; the real issue is that Unity by default isnt just working for you...

    I would hate for Ubuntu to become the hallmark of mainstream Linux if it meant that mainstream Linux stood for defaulting towards user-privacy-invasive policies.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    I guess i am just not the "purist" you seem to be in these matters...my friend and i have gotten a lot of frustrated windows users over to Ubuntu and the majority are VERY happy with it and even though use to the old fashioned windows style desktop have found unity VERY easy to get use to...most don't care for the online dash searches only because of the "clutter" so we showed them how to turn it off (which takes about 5 seconds) personally, i do the same and for the same reason and instead make occasional contributions to Canoncial instead...

    Incidentally, those dash searches are sent invisibly to amazon servers which simply make some (hopefully related) ad suggestions...that is it...Canonical and Amazon are not spying on your data or what you do on your computer...but if you want to be paranoid about it...what can i say...do what is best for you...I still don't know how you think that when you surf the internet you are maintaining any kind of real privacy (ubuntu aside) so as i said before, the only way to remain TRULY private is to not use the internet at all...
    Last edited by craig10x; January 12th, 2014 at 05:46 PM.

  4. #24
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    ...Canonical and Amazon are not spying on your data or what you do on your computer...
    No, but they're logging your connections and have publicly stated they will off no resistance should the NSA asks for logs.

  5. #25
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBuntu View Post
    No, but they're logging your connections and have publicly stated they will off no resistance should the NSA asks for logs.
    Where did Canonical say that?

  6. #26
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Quote Originally Posted by MartyBuntu View Post
    No, but they're logging your connections and have publicly stated they will off no resistance should the NSA asks for logs.
    I haven't read that. The only thing related to the subject that I know of is Mark Shuttleworth answering a question in reddit saying that they have never heard from the NSA and if it happens they would consider moving all their servers out of the U.S.

  7. #27
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    I think the addition of "suggested" applications (that you don't have installed) when you enter a text string in the Dash is more annoying.

    I don't really see why this is a issue.

    My understand is that the information sent to Canonical is only statistical, the feature is well publicized and simple to turn off.

    And you can also easily install a different desktop environment such as xfce or lxde, and avoid having to deal with Unity at all.

    ---

    The statement "if you want privacy, don't use the internet" is silly. That's like saying "if you want privacy, never leave your house." It's very possible to use the internet while maintaining your privacy.

  8. #28
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    @Dave_L: I think his argument is not that he doesn't like ubuntu with unity desktop but abandoned it mostly because of the online dash search to amazon which as you are pointing out is simple to turn off...he simply abandoned it for "philosophical reasons" as it were...that is the impression i got...

    As far as my statement...well, yes...the only way you have totally privacy is to never leave your house....to have it on the internet is pretty difficult even with all the little things you can add such as ad blockers and other various programs...so let me rephrase it: it's not possible to insure complete privacy if you surf the web...

    I'd actually keep it ON because it's an easy and free way to send some development money to Canonical but the only thing i don't like is the clutter it puts in my dash search, so i shut it off and send donations once in a while instead...but it certainly doesn't stop me from wanted to use ubuntu with unity as i like it very much...even if i actually FELT that it was intruding on my privacy as he does, it STILL would not stop me from using...again, i would just shut it off...
    Last edited by craig10x; January 13th, 2014 at 01:03 AM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    I guess i am just not the "purist" you seem to be in these matters...my friend and i have gotten a lot of frustrated windows users over to Ubuntu and the majority are VERY happy with it and even though use to the old fashioned windows style desktop have found unity VERY easy to get use to...most don't care for the online dash searches only because of the "clutter" so we showed them how to turn it off (which takes about 5 seconds) personally, i do the same and for the same reason and instead make occasional contributions to Canoncial instead...

    Incidentally, those dash searches are sent invisibly to amazon servers which simply make some (hopefully related) ad suggestions...that is it...Canonical and Amazon are not spying on your data or what you do on your computer...but if you want to be paranoid about it...what can i say...do what is best for you...I still don't know how you think that when you surf the internet you are maintaining any kind of real privacy (ubuntu aside) so as i said before, the only way to remain TRULY private is to not use the internet at all...
    Bear in mind wars are fought over power, money, and ideas. Throughout history, every culture has met its demise by a decay of something at the core of that culture. Sometimes foreign armies have plundered a culture, while other times the culture rots from within. However, the decay happens nonetheless (either internally or externally). Linux is a culture. Ubuntu is/was a culture. In my view, this issue is a departure from one of the core fundamentals that made Ubuntu great.

    Ubuntu was about the users. An army of us constantly scanned the forums looking to help users. The entire design result revolved around how USERS would gain the greatest POWER in terms of what an operating system offers. It was about the users by DEFAULT- not about Canonical's profitibility or Amazon's bottom line by DEFAULT. Or at least thats what many of us falsely believed. Being made aware of this falsehood will cost Ubuntu users... and they were the Ubuntu community's greatest asset.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elfy View Post
    Where did Canonical say that?
    Yeah, Id like to see where this was said. I dont think Canonical would say that even if that was their intention- it would be a slow-bleeding suicide.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_L View Post
    I think the addition of "suggested" applications (that you don't have installed) when you enter a text string in the Dash is more annoying.

    I don't really see why this is a issue.

    My understand is that the information sent to Canonical is only statistical, the feature is well publicized and simple to turn off.

    And you can also easily install a different desktop environment such as xfce or lxde, and avoid having to deal with Unity at all.
    The issue comes from the fact that they choose to do this by default. It is the indication of a money-over-users mindset. The operating system is one place in the computer world that should be a reflection of its users desires, and it should work exclusively for the user. When it starts sending data off your computer to external entities so they can target you with ads, it is not working exclusively for you. I have no issue with this "technology" being installed by default and available to users. I have an issue with the fact it is enabled by default.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_L View Post
    The statement "if you want privacy, don't use the internet" is silly. That's like saying "if you want privacy, never leave your house." It's very possible to use the internet while maintaining your privacy.
    I agree. And even if we're wrong, a user chooses where he goes (and thus chooses the entities who he will trust with his data, directly or indirectly).

    My issue has nothing to do with whether or not one feels the internet is a "private" place however. Canonical took a big step and made your cpu spend cycles on its behalf by default; maybe Mark will let some users drive his nicest car for a weekend? Will Canonical pay your overage fees if your LTE provider says youve gone .0000001mb over your data limit? These are extreme exaggerations of course, but where does it stop?

    It should stop BEFORE it ever starts. It should never have been on by default. It should have never been about money being accrued through the use of a users computer. If Canonical wishes to become profitable, it should aim to make Ubuntu as capable as possible for the people who use it, and thus yield profits based on it taking the world by storm. Canonical cannot out-Microsoft Microsoft, or out-Apple Apple.
    Last edited by GSF1200S; January 13th, 2014 at 12:05 AM.
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  10. #30
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    Re: Ubuntu wins Canonical a "Big Brother Award"

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    @Dave_L: I think his argument is not that he doesn't like ubuntu with unity desktop but abandoned it mostly because of the online dash search to amazon which as you are pointing is simple to turn off...he simply abandoned it for "philosophical reasons" as it were...that is the impression i got...

    As far as my statement...well, yes...the only way you have totally privacy is to never leave your house....to have it on the internet is pretty difficult even with all the little things you can add such as ad blockers and other various programs...so let me rephrase it: it's not possible to insure complete privacy if you surf the web...

    I'd actually keep it ON because it's an easy and free way to send some development money to Canonical but the only thing i don't like is the clutter it puts in my dash search, so i shut it off and send donations once in a while instead...but it certainly doesn't stop me from wanted to use ubuntu with unity as i like it very much...even if i actually FELT that it was intruding on my privacy as he does, it STILL would not stop me from using...again, i would just shut it off...
    If I abandoned Ubuntu, I wouldnt be here. If you look in my signature, you will see I use other distros as well. In fact, I am writing this on my laptop from Arch and have Fedora on another partition. My desktop has Arch (main), Gentoo (toy), and Xubuntu (backup, main at times). I "moved on" to other distros because I liked what they offer technically, not because of Unity's adsearch turned on by default. Rest assured however- if I was using Ubuntu full-time and this came to light, I would immediately switch to another flavor for "philosophical reasons".

    I am here precisely because I care about Ubuntu, its community, and its direction. I got my Linux start here. I along with many others derive pleasure from helping others fix their issues with the knowledge I have learned about Linux throughout the years (though I am no expert; I have much to learn). I am not here to troll or insult any of you; I am here hoping that Canonical doesnt screw away the community that made Ubuntu so great.

    Linux for human beings. Where has this sentiment gone? This used to mean something, and perhaps it still does. This is not just some bloviated sentiment I am discussing; Ubuntu has a code of conduct, and used to have clearly defined standards for those who were formal members.

    But when Ubuntu takes steps that turns the operating system into something that is not dedicated to its user, "Linux for human beings" will have no more inherent value than "Just do it". It will be a shallow catchphrase of something that was.
    Stop Trusted Computing! http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
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