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Thread: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

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    Talking Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Hi.I read an article of Mark Shuttleworth in his website http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ and I totally agree with the highlighted points which he said to the people within Ubuntu community should stop poisoning it because Ubuntu is taking the *right* track because we need Ubuntu to be the leader and make Linux computing free of dependencies and give user's a modern next-gen experience unlike the old gnome panel and be ahead even of windows and Mac.Good work Canonical keep it up. Quote from his website ---> "
    Some unwarranted melodrama


    The sky is not falling in.Really.Ubuntu is a group of people who get together with common purpose. How we achieve that purpose is up to us, and everyone has a say in what they can and will contribute. Canonical’s contribution is massive. It’s simply nonsense to say that Canonical gets ‘what it wants’ more than anybody else. Hell, half the time *I* don’t get exactly what I want. It just doesn’t work that way: lots of people work hard to the best of their abilities, the result is Ubuntu.The combination of Canonical and community is what makes that amazing. There are lots of pure community distro’s. And wow, they are full of politics, spite, frustration, venality and disappointment. Why? Because people are people, and work is hard, and collaboration is even harder. That’s nothing to do with Canonical, and everything to do with life. In fact, in most of the pure-community projects I’ve watched and participated in, the biggest meme is ‘if only we had someone that could do the heavy lifting’. Ubuntu has that in Canonical – and the combination of our joint efforts has become the most popular platform for Linux fans.If you’ve done what you want for Ubuntu, then move on. That’s normal – there’s no need to poison the well behind you just because you want to try something else.It’s also the case that we’ve shifted gear to leadership rather than integration.When we started, we said we wanted to deliver the best of open source on a cadence. It was up to KDE, GNOME, XFCE to define what that was going to look like, we would just integrate and deliver (a hard problem in itself). By 2009 I was convinced that none of the existing free software communities could create an experience that could challenge the existing proprietary leaders, and so, if we were serious about the dream of a free software norm, we would have to lead.The result is Unity, which is an experience that could become widely adopted across phones, tablets, PCs and other devices. Of course, that is a disruptive change, and has caused some members of existing communities to resent our work. I respect that others may prefer different experiences, so we remain willing to do a large (but not unlimited) amount of work to enable KDE, GNOME, and other DEs to thrive inside the broader Ubuntu umbrella. We also take steps to accommodate developers who want to support both Unity and another DE. But if we want to get beyond being a platform for hobbyists, we need to accelerate the work on Unity to keep up with Android, Chrome, Windows and Apple. And that’s more important than taking care of the needs of those who don’t share our goal of a free software norm."

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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    i can understand Unity. I can't understand Mir. i also can't understand why the prsistence on Gnome. KDE has interesting interfaces and in my opinion quite good (though i only saw it in videos) for tablets, netbooks, desktops as well as perhaps TV. you have touch plasma, kickstart menu, hoemrun menu, netbook plasma. all use qt.

    now Ubuntu's Unity uses GTK yet the interface for phone will use qt. so why not simply go with KDE as default? old gnome 2 was good. new gnome lost a lot of old gnome's functions and user interface simplicity (maybe it will get them back eventually). i am following KDE's development (news and such) and to me it seems they are going in the right direction (at leats for now and from ideas i heard).

    Unity is an interesting interface. but on desktops it seems it benefits those that use keyboard when they work. i usually use mouse mostly when moving arround computer. and keyboard only if i need to write some text. keyboard is often pushed away from me. But Unity does make sense on tablet, TV and phone. though i am not sure why you would need to have same interface on desktop/laptop. MS also pushed their interface down desktops's users - numbers there kind of suggest it didn't really convince them.

    about well poisoning - i think that is a strategy that worked quite well for some armies
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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    I use the mouse all the time in Unity. I use the keyboard to switch workplaces and that's about it. I don't use the keyboard to open the dash. I work fine with Unity and I do mostly typing.

    Canonical has their reasons for rejecting existing display drivers and existing under development display drivers. Most of the explanations are over my head. But I do accept the reasoning that if they use Mir/Xmir on the Ubuntu mobile platform then it should also be used on the desktop platform. They want one Ubuntu platform for various form factors. Canonical is making a heavy development resources bet on the Ubuntu superphone that can be used as phone, tablet, and PC.

    They want that same code branch to also be the desktop ISO image. This is why we are getting Mir and Unity8/Touch also on the desktop. Although it can be argued that on the desktop they are not necessary. Having the same Ubuntu platform on the desktop as on the phone/tablet does not mean that the desktop will have the phone user interface any more than it meaning that the phone will have the desktop user interface.

    Try and see the vision. A mobile phone that plugs into a hub connected to a monitor and there you are at the Ubuntu desktop. But the device is still a mobile phone. So, you can slide out from the side the phone UI and make and receive calls without having to pick up the phone from the hub.

    Regards.

    Oh, one final thing. I have installs of Saucy Salamander Ubuntu and every flavour except Ubuntu Gnome running on Xmir. And the desktop does not fall in.
    Last edited by grahammechanical; July 17th, 2013 at 01:27 PM.
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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by grahammechanical View Post
    Oh, one final thing. I have installs of Saucy Salamander Ubuntu and every flavour except Ubuntu Gnome running on Xmir. And the desktop does not fall in.

    xmir is transitional towards mir. well i will see what they make and wait for it to be done before i judge them.
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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by mastablasta View Post
    xmir is transitional towards mir.
    This is somewhat misleading. As I understand it, XMir is an X server running on Mir​.

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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Yes ^^

  7. #7
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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Im just going to stick my head in the ground till 2017

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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by mastablasta View Post
    But Unity does make sense on tablet, TV and phone. though i am not sure why you would need to have same interface on desktop/laptop.
    Because it has a dock? Show me how having a tiny dock on the left side of the phone would work. It doesn't. It's not even remotely close to any phone OS I've ever seen. It's a desktop OS, plain and simple. If you don't like it, that's another matter, but it's NOT a phone OS.

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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Mills View Post
    Because it has a dock? Show me how having a tiny dock on the left side of the phone would work. It doesn't. It's not even remotely close to any phone OS I've ever seen. It's a desktop OS, plain and simple. If you don't like it, that's another matter, but it's NOT a phone OS.
    Well it seems to me that Unity is different things on different devices. It shares characteristics across them all, but is very different.

    Personally I love Unity on the desktop, and I like what I've seen so far of Unity on the phone and tablet.
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    Re: Marks Shuttleworth's message to all Ubuntu haters.

    Quote Originally Posted by arnav803 View Post
    Hi.I read an article of Mark Shuttleworth in his website http://www.markshuttleworth.com/ and I totally agree with the highlighted points which he said to the people within Ubuntu community should stop poisoning it because Ubuntu is taking the *right* track because we need Ubuntu to be the leader and make Linux computing free of dependencies and give user's a modern next-gen experience unlike the old gnome panel and be ahead even of windows and Mac.Good work Canonical keep it up. Quote from his website ---> "
    Some unwarranted melodrama
    Unwarranted melodrama?
    Looks like you are asking for the opinion of someone who is opposed to Mir.

    Now I myself m not opposed to Mir but lets take a look at Marks commentary on the matter:

    The sky is not falling in.Really.Ubuntu is a group of people who get together with common purpose.
    Right and that common purpose is to force a standard that is mostly untested and untrusted by many developers.
    And with good reason, its a standard that you seem to want to force despite the issues it can cause.
    Like app incompatibility, video card incompatibility and sofourth.
    As an end user I am not interested in the inner politics of what i am using, but when those politics can cause issues is where I must draw the line.
    If my favorite app cannot run because you decided to pull the rug under its foot and I cant use it anymore, then what value is your system.
    We are not just talking about an interface here, but the thing that makes that interface work.
    Its like taking out a gullbladder, sure you can live without it but removing it can cause very big issues.

    How we achieve that purpose is up to us, and everyone has a say in what they can and will contribute.
    Well that is a core to open source, but steering your ship into uncharted waters can be dangerous and maybe even deadly.

    Canonical’s contribution is massive. It’s simply nonsense to say that Canonical gets ‘what it wants’ more than anybody else. Hell, half the time *I* don’t get exactly what I want. It just doesn’t work that way: lots of people work hard to the best of their abilities, the result is Ubuntu
    Yes but when Ubuntu suffers because of jump decisions it does not bode well for the OS.

    The combination of Canonical and community is what makes that amazing. There are lots of pure community distro’s. And wow, they are full of politics, spite, frustration, venality and disappointment. Why? Because people are people, and work is hard, and collaboration is even harder. That’s nothing to do with Canonical, and everything to do with life.
    Nonsense, Canonical is making these decisions without thinking of the consequences, its is forcing things like Mir onto us and no one is willing to take it as it can and will break without proper testing.
    Your company is making the same nonsense mistakes Microsoft is here, again by forcing a standard to an unready market.
    Last time this happened there was this little thing called windows 8, perhaps you heard of it?

    In fact, in most of the pure-community projects I’ve watched and participated in, the biggest meme is ‘if only we had someone that could do the heavy lifting’. Ubuntu has that in Canonical – and the combination of our joint efforts has become the most popular platform for Linux fans.
    Well the main reason why ubuntu got so popular is that it is very user friendly overall and works fair enough, but this decision to go Mir and all that can and will endanger us if we are not careful.

    If you’ve done what you want for Ubuntu, then move on. That’s normal – there’s no need to poison the well behind you just because you want to try something else.
    Yes but we are not poisoning the well, its you who is doing that, again by forcing his untested system onto us.
    Canonical is all gung ho about Mir, and nobody else is.
    Juse because you are all hyped for it doesnt mean everyone will bend to you here.

    It’s also the case that we’ve shifted gear to leadership rather than integration.When we started, we said we wanted to deliver the best of open source on a cadence. It was up to KDE, GNOME, XFCE to define what that was going to look like, we would just integrate and deliver (a hard problem in itself). By 2009 I was convinced that none of the existing free software communities could create an experience that could challenge the existing proprietary leaders, and so, if we were serious about the dream of a free software norm, we would have to lead.The result is Unity, which is an experience that could become widely adopted across phones, tablets, PCs and other devices.
    In other words you needed to force others to accept your rules but when they went on their own you did your own thing.
    Fair enough.
    But its not up to the developers alone to keep up compatibility.
    Stuff needs to go both ways and you need to be understanding the needs of others sometimes

    Of course, that is a disruptive change, and has caused some members of existing communities to resent our work. I respect that others may prefer different experiences, so we remain willing to do a large (but not unlimited) amount of work to enable KDE, GNOME, and other DEs to thrive inside the broader Ubuntu umbrella. We also take steps to accommodate developers who want to support both Unity and another DE.
    Well that's a good thing however lets look at the most damning quote here:

    But if we want to get beyond being a platform for hobbyists,we need to accelerate the work on Unity to keep up with Android, Chrome, Windows and Apple. And that’s more important than taking care of the needs of those who don’t share our goal of a free software norm.
    And creating an unready, untested interface will do that?
    With this kind of statement you seem to have NO consideration for the end user.
    You seem not to give a darn about those of us who want to actually you know what to use our computers.
    In fact with moves like this your further isolate linux, you make it look like its this big complicated mess that only a high tech can understand.
    Mir is a major thing, you fail to realize how few are willing to adapt to it.
    You are relying on this thing that you have all your hopes for and i will stand and laugh when it all falls down.
    We have had many changes in the linux world yes but nothing that could so easily break linux like Mir.
    Mir is this tiny little spot on the map, it will take time to code it properly and make it work.
    But no we have to rush head on and not consider the consequences.
    Have we learned NOTHING for Microsofts attempts at a unifed system?
    Dont you see the sales figures falling like a stone, or Microsofts current finances?
    No, well read a newspaper sometime and call me back when you realize talk like this only damages things.
    And I thought the gnome developers were out of touch...

    And note: yes I know I said some contriversial things here, but they are in my honest opinion.
    So if I feel that Mark is being foolish for falling into the same trap that Microsoft has, well thats just my opinion.
    And really saying what he has makes it clear he has no clue on the possible issues that can rise because of it, seems very foolish no matter how you spin it.
    Go ahead ban me, block me, or whatever, if differing opinions are unwanted then i will simply go elsewhere.
    Just dont blame me when the walls fall down and you are all hearing complaints about how everything is reduced to a terminal and everyone either A: goes back to windows.
    Or B search for a better distro... Like Fedora for example.

    Try three here: I have done my best to ensure formatting is compliant with forum standards, I dont use Ubuntu right now so i cannot be sure if it will look right.
    If it doesnt just tell me.
    Last edited by MadmanRB; July 17th, 2013 at 10:35 PM.

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