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Thread: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

  1. #31
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by Copper Bezel View Post
    Eh, you get used to it.
    I am being sarcastic now, but I've read someone saying the exact same thing about Windows 8 - one just "has to get used to it".

    Is that what OS's have become about: "having to get used to it"?

    That is not the way it should be. I should not have to "get used" to an OS. It is the OS that should have to be the way that I want, and not the other way around.

    I thought that was _the_ biggest argument for switching to Linux: one can configure it any way one wants. But more and more, this is no longer true. Ubuntu has Unity, and if you don't like that, "get used to it", period. (Or get KDE, or LXDE, or xfce, or whatever.)

    After I accidentally deleted my Ubuntu partition last year, I didn't bother reinstalling it (end of support was in April anyway) and I switched to Linux Mint. I don't like Unity and I most certainly don't want to "get used" to it. I tried Fedora 17, but I find Gnome 3 as terrible as Unity, so Fedora was out after 1 day - I didn't give it a change, some/many will now think/say? Again, why do I have to "get used" to an OS/desktop/window manager? I don't buy/acquire things and then "get used" to them for a certain amount of time first. I get them because I like them the way they _are_, period. It has to be the other way around: not the OS is in charge of my computer, but I am.

    I am sorry, Canonical, but you have lost a passionate "lover" of Ubuntu. Linux Mint is fine, but Ubuntu (10.04) was the greatest OS I have ever had (Windows 95-7; MacOS X). It was stable, everything worked, and Gnome 2 was extremely user-friendly (talk about (old) KDE 3, on the other hand...). I loved Ubuntu. Ubuntu really used to "rock". It doesn't rock any longer.

    It is my personal opinion that Canonical has ruined Ubuntu in teh same way that Microsoft has ruined Windows with "Metro" (in Windows 8).

    I miss Ubuntu 10.04/Gnome 2.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdalbum View Post
    You need to use Ubuntu for longer. Most of your points are completely inaccurate, or demonstrate that you haven't explored your operating system yet.
    See? 3rdalbum, you are saying: "Get used to it".
    Last edited by Skara Brae; June 26th, 2013 at 09:26 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    Fedora, etc., have merged most executables in one folder.
    Arch just moved them all to /usr/bin
    https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php...stem_hierarchy

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    If I install an application I want its files and everything related to it to be contained, isolated, in the same directory. If I delete an application I don't want to worry about some remnant files, I want to simply be able to delete one directory and everything to it is gone.
    you can manually install any package to any folder, but you lose the ability to have the package manager automagically handle them


  3. #33
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Different strokes for different folks, skara brae...you loved the old ubuntu layout and i hated it...in fact, it drove me to linux mint...i returned to ubuntu when unity arrived because i loved the new desktop layout...
    having 2 panels taking up a lot of real estate and a spread out apps menu with no search is not what i would call efficient...ubuntu with unity is what i call efficient...

  4. #34
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by treb0r View Post
    I totally agree with this sentiment and find it hard understand why / how people are willing to come across as so arrogant when talking about an operating system that has been provided to them for free.
    What, you mean one mustn't whine about it, because one already gets it for free?

    Quote Originally Posted by treb0r View Post
    I myself was an early Ubuntu user who drifted away. After years using a Mac I'm back and I'm very impressed with how things have developed over the last few years.

    We can argue about interfaces and unity until the cows come home but the basic advantages of Ubuntu for me are freedom and control.
    What freedom and control, if I have to get used to Unity (or get another DM or distro)?

    Quote Originally Posted by treb0r View Post
    That is true of most GNU/Linux distributions but Ubuntu provides them with the polish and professionalism usually associated with more commercial, binary only operating systems.

    Congratulations Mr Shuttleworth on a bold vision well executed. I expect we will be seeing a lot more Ubuntu in the mainstream over the coming years.
    No comment...

    -oo-

    I don't want to sound "arrogant" or anything. After having used it since 2007, I am "just" disappointed in where Ubuntu has gone to, that is all.
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  5. #35
    monkeybrain2012 is offline Grande Half-n-Half Cinnamon Ubuntu
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post

    If I install an application I want its files and everything related to it to be contained, isolated, in the same directory. If I delete an application I don't want to worry about some remnant files, I want to simply be able to delete one directory and everything to it is gone.
    .
    Yeah as a result your installation will be huge because each application comes with its own duplicated version of libraries. Without even considering Windows, look at some proprietary software (native Linux) that bundles all their libraries. Their size run into a few Gs as a result. Usually they do have all their stuffs in one folder so you can just delete it, but that is because they are not integrated into the system so the package manager cannot see them. Otherwise, WHY would you even want to delete programs manually? (only "pieces" you need to know where they are so you can delete them manually are configuration files in you home. Typically in .config but some may have their own "." files. But you don't have to delete them, you can just leave them be.)

    I find the way Linux organizes the file system makes a lot of logical (programming) sense, even though it may not make sense to the human user. The OS organizes files in terms of their logical functionalities and how they link to each other, whereas the user thinks of a software as one piece to do some "high level" tasks which seems easy to understand to the humans but too ambiguous for the machine (hence the difficulties of AI) But since those low level details are taken care of by the package manager it doesn't have to make intuitive sense to you (and also Linux is designed as a multiuser system by default, so in that setting the normal user doesn't even have access to those things)

    The only situation where your complaint makes sense is when you use make install to install a program from source, then the files get scattered in the file system and they are not seen by the package manager, they are not easy to remove if the program doesn't come with a uninstall script. But this is more of a problem of the people who distribute the program than Linux and there are some workarounds like using checkinstall (or actually build the deb) so that the package manager can detect the installed files.
    Last edited by monkeybrain2012; June 26th, 2013 at 10:04 PM.

  6. #36
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    I never liked how Windows did things. I hated the fact files were scattered throughout the file system, you never knew where things ended up, either in a hidden appdata, in some obscure users directory, program files of course. The registry is really retarded IMO. So your accusation here is a total fail.
    I find the way Windows does thing quite logical (let me not start about _how_ it does thing...). System files in /Windows, program files in /program files, user files in your own home folders.

    The Windows registry replaced the dozens of .ini files from Windows 3.x (I don't call this better, I am only comparing the Windows registry with the .ini files from the 'old days').

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    If I install an application I want its files and everything related to it to be contained, isolated, in the same directory.
    They all are in the same directory - Program Files. The Windows files that a program uses - like dll files - are found in the Windows system directory (/windows). I find that quite logical.

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    If I delete an application I don't want to worry about some remnant files, I want to simply be able to delete one directory and everything to it is gone.
    First part is true... very often remnants stay behind, which is (probably) the result of bad programming.

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    Having the config files in /conf/ and binary files in /bin/ and data files in /var/ really is retarded. And you don't have just one /bin/, you have /usr/bin/ etc.
    config files in /conf and binaries in /bin is retarded? Are you serious?

    Seriously. I know little about why the directories in Linux (and UNIX) are the way they are. I assume there are logical reasons for those. UNIX has its origins in the 1960s. The UNIX programmers probably used reasons that they found logical (like binaries in /bin and config files in /conf )

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    I know this is legacy stuff, but hey come on, it's 2013, nobody has the balls to change this?
    "If it ain't broken, don't fix it." Linux and UNIX (and OS X) work, don't they? So, why change them?

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    The only truly successful open-source distributions of an OS are the ones proprietary companies like Apple and Google have adopted and drastically modified.
    That kind of success has nothing to do with how those OS's are built, but all about marketing (and FUD, in Microsoft's case).

    And you haven't you seen the directory structure of Android, have you?

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    Google has more apps created for Android every month than desktop Linux has available.
    I know nothing about programming, but I do know that you can not compare an Android app with a Linux program. An Android app is much "easier" made than a Linux program (if it weren't, then all Linux devs must be idiots, while all Android app writers are geniuses.)

    Quote Originally Posted by argvar View Post
    You know there are legitimate reasons why a lot of people shy away from Linux. Fussing at those who raise points in that regards will not help Linux.
    The fact that people shy away from Linux has nothing to do with the points that you mention.
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  7. #37
    monkeybrain2012 is offline Grande Half-n-Half Cinnamon Ubuntu
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by Skara Brae View Post
    I find the way Windows does thing quite logical (let me not start about _how_ it does thing...). System files in /Windows, program files in /program files, user files in your own home folders.

    .
    "Logical" to you is not the same as logical in an architectural and programming sense. Humans are not very logical overall, most would not find advanced mathematics very "logical". Hence the difficulties of AI.

  8. #38
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    Quote Originally Posted by craig10x View Post
    Different strokes for different folks, skara brae...you loved the old ubuntu layout and i hated it...in fact, it drove me to linux mint...i returned to ubuntu when unity arrived because i loved the new desktop layout...
    having 2 panels taking up a lot of real estate and a spread out apps menu with no search is not what i would call efficient...ubuntu with unity is what i call efficient...
    People's tastes are hard to understand sometimes: the other week, I read someone saying that he loves Windows 8. They'll proverbially have to pry Win XP (Yes, I've an old computer with XP still on it) out of my proverbial cold dead hands, before I'd ever start using Windows 8. Windows 8 is an abomination - just look at those Youtube clips of people that use Win 8 the first time (I don't really consider myself an idiot, and I wouldn't know how to use Windows 8 either, if I hadn't seen such clips first.)

    But you are right that we cannot argue about people's taste. Everyone's taste is valid. I liked Gnome 2, you like Gnome 3. That is how it is and there is nothing wrong with it.
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  9. #39
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    Re: My take on Ubuntu after a few days of using

    This whole thread is about the different ways that different people look at things.

    Once again we have a thread eating it's tail.

    These issues come up regularly - they rarely change,

    Thread closed.

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