Thanks for the thoughtful responses. My 2 cents:
Thanks for the thoughtful responses. My 2 cents:
Last edited by HDave; June 14th, 2013 at 01:44 AM.
Performance and memory improvements off the bat: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ub...ry/036436.htmlOther than the financial reasons we discussed, how does the mobile work improve the desktop? (I seriously asking, not being a smart-ass...) I don't get it.
Mobile also forced us to finally:
- Invest in a modern display server.
- Strip down the indicator and other frameworks to fit on smaller devices.
- Rewrite lenses in not-Python so they are performant.
- Fix packaging so users can upgrade applications without having to upgrade their entire operating system.
- And do so in a way that is done in a containerized manner so messed up apps can't break the entire system like current packages can.
- Give app developers a way to publish their applications automatically without blocking on humans reviewing complicated packages.
- Finally pick one IDE and one platform (Qt/QML) so we can make....
- A real Software Development Kit (SDK) like our competitors have had for decades.
Sure those things could have happened with without mobile and touch but it helps drive bringing those things to the desktop.
This is complex question and there is no easy answer but i do see some potential for loose ends:
1.) Shifting focus completely to mobile devices probably is/could be counterproductive if:
a.) Decisions/compromises that makes sense on mobile platforms start to undermine the desktop position.
For example recent Firefox/Chromium debates would probably not happen if desktop would still be the main focus. Compiz would probably not be replaced with something else if desktop would be the focus...
I am not saying replacing Firefox with Chromium and ditching Compiz would/will necessary end up bad but it could. Here i do see some risk probably taken because mobile is the focus.
b.) The desire to build new apps that will in the end represent Ubuntu DE could end up OK but it could end up as something that wasted a lot of limited efforts with no clear benefit. It's hard in my opinion to compete with other FOSS apps and beat them and i do wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to approach 3rd party upstream and collaborate.
2.) Ubuntu did start to create tension on the desktop in my opinion and i wonder if now is the time to give the appearance focus has shifted or if it would be better to give the appearance desktop is more important today than it has ever been.
But regardless the focus shifted and now the push has to be made without second thoughts... i crossed my fingers and i wish this strategy succeeds. Convergence is the new strategy now and it might work yes but it is important in my opinion it will start to boost Ubuntu Desktop in foreseeable future and not to undermine it in any meaningful/measurable way!
P.S. The bright side is with convergence strategy Ubuntu probably has better shot to attract OEMs and to achieve this goal yes it's probably worth taking a bit of the risk indeed.
Last edited by EgoGratis; June 14th, 2013 at 03:11 AM.
If one's dissatisfied with Ubuntu on their desktop, why continue using or arguing about it? With all the available Linux alternatives, it seems a waste of time to argue over that which Canonical has already decided. Canonical's focus is on a very competitive mobile market, with the intent of profiting (not suggesting their profiting is good or bad). I seriously doubt, that any discussion/arguments here will impact said decision.
Thus, logic might suggest that one accept the fact that Canonical has made their decision and either seek an alternative or use what's being offered. As for which mobile product will become the next desirable gadget, as whatthefunk points out and I totally agree with:
Just my $0.02The mobile market is anything but new...new doesnt last very long in the technology world.
"All change is not growth, as all movement is not forward."
I think the mobile OS and the desktop advancements are both worthwhile projects . You won't get very far unless you do a great job as judged by the wider user groups, not just those developing the code. Something simple like Libre Office is doing now . The download page asks to pay just a little bit of money. Rather than spend time reading how to get past it, lots of folks will just pay if it isn't much. There are lots of grumbles about the changes to the desktop out there from lots of people, and some I agree with. I just hope folks can listen without taking offence, because we all appreciate your work. It really needs to pass the give it to your granddad test as well those that need to get lots of stuff done and fast. I used to setup Ubuntu for folks with a few Compiz tricks installed and leave them thinking why would you pick anything else. Now I don't , because I don't want to get stuck explaining how to drive it for 40 mins.
However, I still find it hard to imagine myself being more drawn to Ubuntu on my tablet than Android. With the exception of big-screen-multi-window-and-keyboard apps (Eclipse, Spreadsheets, VMWare, Calibre, Teamviewer, Lightworks, Openshot, etc.) I prefer the Android versions of everything over Ubuntu. And by prefer, i mean VASTLY prefer, and by everything I mean EVERYTHING (media apps, music apps, email apps, travel apps, games, etc.). Will the Ubuntu community be able to provide equal or better versions of those apps? I think that is THE question because I don't see many Android/iOS application vendors porting to Ubuntu because they are already reticent to port to Windows mobile. (Unless somebody here can say that porting from Android to Ubuntu is easy/straightfoward....)
Bear in mind here that windows mobile is in last place and is considered to be struggling heavily because it only has 6 million new mobile users per quarter. How many years do we think it will take Ubuntu to get to 6 million mobile users, let alone that many per quarter? And this is for the losers!!!!
In the end though, I think Canonical doesn't have to win in mobile, they just have to compete well enough to make some real money. If that success helps the desktop environment, then I am all for it. However, given that there is hundreds of millions of dollars to be made in the corporate world by getting businesses to switch from Windows to Ubuntu, that seemed to me to more the lower risk route, but it is going to (continue to) require major investment on the desktop platform to get there.
P.S. -- I was wrong up above, the Ubuntu for Android initiative is not dead (http://www.ubuntu.com/phone/ubuntu-for-android), but I can't find it on any of the mobile devices at Verzion (yet).
Last edited by HDave; June 14th, 2013 at 03:04 PM.
But there is Windows OS on the desktop and Apple going strong and you still are here Dipped in Ubuntu aren’t you.However, I still find it hard to imagine myself being more drawn to Ubuntu on my tablet than Android. With the exception of big-screen-multi-window-and-keyboard apps (Eclipse, Spreadsheets, VMWare, Calibre, Teamviewer, Lightworks, Openshot, etc.) I prefer the Android versions of everything over Ubuntu. And by prefer, i mean VASTLY prefer, and by everything I mean EVERYTHING (media apps, music apps, email apps, travel apps, games, etc.). Will the Ubuntu community be able to provide equal or better versions of those apps? I think that is THE question because I don't see many Android/iOS application vendors porting to Ubuntu because they are already reticent to port to Windows mobile.
And this dose have the potential to become something you will love to use (variety of different devices) doesn't it?
Unity Next + Mir + Core Apps + Developer Tools and Apps Upload procedure... this is the focus now and indeed it can benefit Ubuntu and convergence strategy can indeed end up as being the best choice one could make in given circumstances.