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Thread: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

  1. #41
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by fontis View Post
    Why?
    As I said, by accepting payment for labor, the employee agrees that the results of that labor belong to the employer.


    ...it's wrong to assume that anyone has any claims to anything in the universe except to ones own body...
    Says who, other than you?

    One can create all sorts of imaginary ways to live. But, the only ones that count, the only ones that exist, are shaped by the actual behavior of actual people. Otherwise, we're trying to impose an ideology, by persuasion or by force, on other people.

  2. #42
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    It'd make me sad if artists stopped selling digital or CD copies of their songs and went full-on subscription-only (think Pandora, Spotify, Google All Access) so that you basically could never have song files... or had to stream-capture some shady-quality version in a similar fashion to the way we used to tape-record songs off the radio.

  3. #43
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by aysiu View Post
    It'd make me sad if artists stopped selling digital or CD copies of their songs and went full-on subscription-only (think Pandora, Spotify, Google All Access) so that you basically could never have song files... or had to stream-capture some shady-quality version in a similar fashion to the way we used to tape-record songs off the radio.
    I think people like to collect "things", so that won't go away completely. To go back to my TV allegory, people will watch TV (a streaming medium), but the stuff they like they'll also go and buy the box set of. In the future there may be no "box" and you just buy the license to it and keep it in a digital locker online, but I wouldn't bet on physical media vanishing completely either.

  4. #44
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by Grenage View Post
    DRM is optional, and the vast, vast majority of the population neither know of or care about it.
    I am always amused by folks on forums who not only presume to know the thoughts (or lack thereof) of "the vast, vast majority of the population," but also feel rightfully self-appointed to speak for all those poor ignorant souls.

    But back to the topic, I've found that one way to bring the "OMG Pirates!" conversation back to Earth is to send people to Rob Reid's wonderful TED Talk. Just search for "Rob Reid: The $8 billion iPod" and enjoy.

    Having been around for more than a few decades, I actually remember when the content industry had *Miss Pittypat moments over every single new thing that they didn't understand and couldn't control...things like the player piano (though that one was before my time), the radio, cable TV, DVRs, etc. The VCR was actually likened to the Boston Strangler once, and when TV was new, the movie industry was sure it was going to kill them.

    It seems that very little has changed throughout history. For example, here's an interesting article showing how desperate the "IP" mobsters can get, and how truly stupid the whole "IP" conversation can become: "And When Even The Death Penalty Doesn’t Deter Copying — What Then?"

    *Miss Pittypat was an overly nervous little character in Gone With the Wind who would feel faint and need her smelling salts at the slightest sign of change in her tiny little world.
    Last edited by Jay Car; June 2nd, 2013 at 04:33 PM. Reason: I edit because I'm a fussy old lady...
    The scientific theory I like best is that the rings of Saturn are composed entirely of lost airline luggage.

  5. #45
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by fontis View Post
    Why?
    The factory worker has as much claim to the things he creates (if not more) than the owner of the factory because the factory worker is essentially crafting it (creating something from 'nothing').
    Incorrect. The factory worker does not create the finished product since matter cannot be created or destroyed. He transforms pre-existing materials into a more useful form. That transformation, and not the end product is the fruit of his labor. He exchanges that talent for agreed upon compensation.

    And since it's wrong to assume that anyone has any claims to anything in the universe except to ones own body etc, you can't claim it reasonable at all.
    The definition of ownership outside oneself is simply absurd and unnatural in its essence. That's why arguing FOR it always becomes such a weird thing, and it's essentially impossible to speak of rights of such manners because the arguments will be arbitrarily based on false assumptions multiple times in an attempt to justify the argument.
    Two people cannot simultaneously digest the same food, or drive the same car to different destinations. Exclusive access to material goods is a natural animal behavior, and the basis of all social contracts. You are exhibiting it every time you access this forum to post. Whether or not you can justify the principle of assuming control of material is irrelevant to the realities of survival. The fact that you don't claim to own things does not change the fact that you do own things.

  6. #46
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by eriktheblu View Post
    Incorrect. The factory worker does not create the finished product since matter cannot be created or destroyed. He transforms pre-existing materials into a more useful form. That transformation, and not the end product is the fruit of his labor. He exchanges that talent for agreed upon compensation.
    Neither does the artist, he is merely using pre-existing materials and transforming them also (words, paint, canvas, etc)

    Two people cannot simultaneously digest the same food, or drive the same car to different destinations. Exclusive access to material goods is a natural animal behavior, and the basis of all social contracts. You are exhibiting it every time you access this forum to post. Whether or not you can justify the principle of assuming control of material is irrelevant to the realities of survival. The fact that you don't claim to own things does not change the fact that you do own things.
    You can claim to own as much as you like, it still doesn't justify your claim to any property. If the point would be to use as you would see fit, in terms of survival, then you surely do not need to own 5 PC's etc, because they are absolutely trivial to your survival.
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  7. #47
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    the new paradigm already seems evident: media will not be downloaded to customers' machines; rather it will be streamed to registered players. thus the customers would never be in possession of permanent copies of any media; only licences to stream/play media on registered devices .

    i suspect CDs or downloads will still be offered by some publishers as there will probably be buyers for such products. hope so, anyway. I like 60s rock anyway and most of that stuff has long since been published on CD. Amazon has tons of it.

    what seems perfectly clear however is that attempting to sieze complete control over digital files of any kind will be about as successful as trying to stamp out pot. Whac-a-Mole, anyone?

  8. #48
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by fontis View Post
    Neither does the artist, he is merely using pre-existing materials and transforming them also (words, paint, canvas, etc)
    Should he have ownership thereof, he would also own the resulting art.

    You can claim to own as much as you like, it still doesn't justify your claim to any property.
    No, the justification is by mutual agreement via social contract.

    If the point would be to use as you would see fit, in terms of survival, then you surely do not need to own 5 PC's etc, because they are absolutely trivial to your survival.
    By fulfilling the entirety of the hierarchy of needs we facilitate survival. Continued survival of the entire species is intimately linked to improving our living conditions. I do not need 5 computers, but it is quite plausible that I could employ 5 or more to improve not only my personal situation, but that of my community as well. Are you suggesting that because it is not linked to immediate survival, I somehow forfeit exclusive access?

  9. #49
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by eriktheblu View Post

    Continued survival of the entire species is intimately linked to improving our living conditions.
    Well, our survival is linked to not trashing the system that sustains us, but other animal species survive quite nicely without constant efforts to improve their living conditions. It's only when some outside event alters the system that supports them that their viability comes into question. Our knack as a species seems to be adopting ways to improve our own individual living conditions at the cost of damage to the system that supports the species. (We aren't actually unique in that. Deer, for example, will happily reproduce themselves until the food supply can't sustain them and the equation is resolved by starvation.)

  10. #50
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    Re: Pirated Music and Intellectual Property

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    Well, our survival is linked to not trashing the system that sustains us,
    Systems that sustain us include communities with housing, climate control (heating and cooling), delivery of safe drinking water, elimination of disease, curing of injuries, efficient food production (less than 1% involved in some states), and an effective means of transporting goods and services.

    but other animal species survive quite nicely without constant efforts to improve their living conditions.
    Other animal species also do not enjoy the same geographical diversity as us. They evolve to to a specific climate and do not thrive outside of it. We have managed to adapt to most environments on the planet, and have the unique ability to adapt to living off of the planet.

    It's only when some outside event alters the system that supports them that their viability comes into question.
    And those outside events effect us as well, but we are able to recover due to technologies available and the charitable nature of our communities.

    Our knack as a species seems to be adopting ways to improve our own individual living conditions at the cost of damage to the system that supports the species. (We aren't actually unique in that. Deer, for example, will happily reproduce themselves until the food supply can't sustain them and the equation is resolved by starvation.)
    You assume that the natural environment is the best system to support the species; this is not the case. By modifying our environment, we are better suited to endure climate extremes. We are able to bring the necessities of survival to areas where they are not normally present. We are able to maximize acquisition of subsistence by developing crops and livestock which give higher yields. We have prolonged our average lifespans by decades.

    Deer do not grow crops; they won't truck in loads of walnuts to neighboring counties during a famine.

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