Re: Gnome: The ethics of saying just "no"
Yeah I could see how that could be annoying, but it is a major failure on his part. The bug report should have been handled more gracefully as the user was not intending to be disrespectful and rude. It takes time and patience, but it is better than what resulted from his and Olav's responses. It really reflected poorly on the developers and only added fuel to the fire.
Originally Posted by JDShu
While it is not practical for most FOSS projects to have such outlets and construct, for a project as big as Gnome it really is necessary. We are talking about a major piece of software that users interact with in an active manner, everyday. While the distros should provide outlets for the users to make the praise and gripes, it is also a good idea for the Gnome project to do so as well given the magnitude of their project. In many ways, I think that Bugzilla provides those tools already and I disagree with Olav's analysis that a feature request is not a bug. I have in the past posted on KDE's Bugzilla feature requests and while many times I was turned down some times I had a developer thank me for the idea, but NEVER have I been treated in a manner similar to how Christian and Olav treated these users. Now I have been asked to do some research or put up diagrams of how I think it should be implemented, but I don't really see that as burdensome. It is a reasonable suggestion and it isn't like I am being aked to code something.
Originally Posted by buzzingrobot
It is all in the way the developers engauge the users and this situation should have never happened. The bug should have been marked as a dupilicate as stated earlier
Some developers out there just don't like to hear criticism about their project. I feel some of the Gnome developers are like this. They treat Gnome as their baby. You can really see this when they talk about Gnome being an "experience" and many Gnome developers feel that distros should provide as close to an upstream experience as possible and talk about how important the Gnome brand is.
Originally Posted by mikodo
Certainly, this isn't all of the projects developers, but we see it in much of the design. And the fact that major core changes seem to happen on a whim as well. But there does some to be a lot of arrogance and disdain towards users in general, like their comments that widescreen users were idiots, etc.
The Gnome project needs to come to a realization that if they want users to use their productions then they have to be willing to create something that the users feel they have sufficient control over and are able to customize to their liking. And this goes double for a project as large as the desktop and working environment.
Why they would take such a seemingly hostile stance, I do not understand, and I really hope that much of this is wrought on by the frustrations of creating what essentially is a new desktop and paradigm and that hopefully, very soon, they will in the future really start churning out something with solid quality without having to remove features or focus on a narrow window of contexts.
After trying out 3.6 on openSUSE and realizing just how solid it is (albiet it could be faster, especially starting up), I have to say that that I remain optimistic.
What I think Gnome needs to focus on is not a new Music app, but rather a something that is missing on the GTK+ front: a quality IRC client. Something like Konversation or perhaps Quassel that lets me choose different user profiles and have them connect to networks in a sensible and flexible manner.
In the end, this is all about approach, and I think Gnome has a lot of good ideas and if they play their cards right, they will have a bangin' distro that is top-notch in a year or so. However, that is IF they can play their cards right. I wish to remain optimistic that eventually the developers will come around as the distros can only do so much to improve the experience. With so much attention on MATE right now, I think the pressure is on.
Re: Gnome: The ethics of saying just "no"
Also, I still have yet to hear back from Mr. Vitters, whom I contacted via email. I really am looking forward to a response, to my inquiries and I also asked him some questions about the future of Gnome and his take on various things. Hopefully I will hear back from someone soon. However, given the fact that I was very critical of him in my post on Spiralinear, I understand he might be a bit apprehensive about the whole situation. But I felt I should at least give someone at Gnome an opportunity to respond to what are admittedly very harsh criticisms.