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Thread: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

  1. #41
    monkeybrain2012 is offline Grande Half-n-Half Cinnamon Ubuntu
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    It's not a complaint so much as a judgement that the practice does not advance FOSS. If it doesn't, why annoy users?

    For example, music players are a dime-a-dozen in Linux. Few of them will work unless a variety of codecs, drivers, etc., have been installed. Dependency resolution schemes -- apt-get, yum, etc. -- are supposed to locate and install dependencies. But, they don't install *these* dependencies. Those non-free files, may be hosted in another of the distribution's repos, or they may not.

    There are licensing and legal issue to distribute non free codecs, this is not just the result of some free software fanaticism. Mint installs the codecs by default but Mint is based in France where many software patent laws don't apply and it is too small so it can slip under the radar easily. I think that some music players such as Rhythmbox do advise you about missing codecs and where to find them in some distros.

    Actually even in Windows not all codecs are installed by default, WIndows mediaplayer doesn't play many formats out of the box. That's one reason why vlc is popular on Windows as well.
    Last edited by monkeybrain2012; May 9th, 2013 at 07:59 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    Quote Originally Posted by monkeybrain2012 View Post
    But you do know that there are licensing and legal issue to distribute non free codecs...
    Yes, as I've acknowledged. But, the issue involves more than music player codecs. If there is no legal reason not to include non-free code in a distribution's initial install routine, it ought to be there.

    I don't want to belabor this. I've just grown tired of being told that something I need isn't there when it could be there.

    I have to wonder, too, if push came to shove, if there is really any legal difference between putting a restricted non-free file on a repository server and pointing people to it, versus making it available during the initial install. You might argue the file gets installed only at the user's discretion, but the entire distribution gets installed only at the user's discretion.

  3. #43
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    ^Don't use it, then. I don't agree with Arch Linux and the "Arch way". So I don't use it. Problem solved.

  4. #44
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    all these long, detailed and enlightening discussions about debian and FOSS
    come to think of it, i just asked a simple question about which iso to download!!!!!

  5. #45
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    Quote Originally Posted by iamkuriouspurpleoranj View Post
    ^Don't use it, then. I don't agree with Arch Linux and the "Arch way". So I don't use it. Problem solved.

    It's not a matter of agreeing or not agreeing. It's just that on the rather narrow and specific point I posted about, I would do things in a different way because I think it turns people off FOSS.

    It's certainly not going to influence what I install and use. The results are a lot more important than any distribution's so-called "way".

  6. #46
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    Quote Originally Posted by sid0972 View Post
    all these long, detailed and enlightening discussions about debian and FOSS
    come to think of it, i just asked a simple question about which iso to download!!!!!
    Debian 7 ISO 1 is what you want to download, if you have a fast connection install from a netinstall cd (I have a 120MBPS connection so I go with net install but even a lower 20MB or even 10MBPS will suffice).

    This is the one time I'm probably going to say this but, RTFM!

    The ISO includes pretty much everything, I don't like that infact I hate that! But it's there I guess for an OFFLINE install, if you have a stable connection install from the net this way you install what you need and nothing more similar to arch or gentoo or I guess even ubuntu-server.

  7. #47
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    I really don't get why all the fuss about Debian not including non-free drivers and software in a default install. After all, all this non-free software is in the repositories (and I believe, in the complete set of CDs and DVDs, too). If you have some piece of hardware that needs some non-free driver, simply install the deb of the driver in question after you install Debian. Problem solved. I have a nVidia card and Debian offers a method for installing the nVidia driver that is cleaner than the official nVidia installer and integrates perfectly with the package management system.

    Also, though I'm not a free software purist, I do understand the concern about non-free software: the day that a given hardware manufacturer decides to drop Linux support for their hardware (for whatever reason), every Linux user with some hardware from this manufacturer will be left with a piece of useless junk. Of course, in an ideal world hardware manufacturers would release open source drivers, but since we don't live in an ideal world I buy hardware that I simply know is supported by Linux -- either with open source drivers, or with closed source drivers.
    Last edited by odiseo77; May 10th, 2013 at 03:27 AM.

  8. #48
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    1. You can get it all (except deb-multimedia) via the expert install.
    2. Ubuntu with the tick-box for flash during installation and the need to manually install medibuntu afterwards is hardly more user-friendly in this respect. I am happy with Ubuntu and Debian's handling of this. If you are not, maybe you should use the Linux Mint edition with codecs included. Just remember that you are - correct me if I'm wrong - breaking the law in the US and Japan if you do.

    One of the reasons mainstream distributions are moving away from MySQL and towards MariaDB is a concern that Oracle is becoming less open with its MySQL development, which is a security risk. Ok, that and maybe the fact that Red Hat doesn't want to encourage a company that is f****** ** ** *** **s(e).

    Systems of convenience, which by their nature are ambivalent regarding the inclusion of non-free software, nurture within us a general sense of indifference to important issues, including non-ideological ones such as security.

    It is a security concern and not an ideological one that makes it important for us to know and understand what it is that is being installed on our computers. This is not about the summer of free love. Debian was born out of a practical need and it survives precisely because it continues to meet that practical need.

    In our natural desire for FOSS to grow, we need to be careful not to neglect a fundamental requirement, which is for it not to die or become so diluted that it becomes meaningless.

    Remember: the strategy of those who would see FOSS fail is "embrace, extend, extinguish". Any expansion of FOSS needs to be managed and monitored (by us - for we are the company) to make sure it is growing healthily and according to our interests and is not merely being grown as part of someone else's corporate strategy.

  9. #49
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukiri View Post
    Debian 7 ISO 1 is what you want to download, if you have a fast connection install from a netinstall cd
    I have downloaded and tried debian live, read my previous post.
    (I have a 120MBPS connection so I go with net install but even a lower 20MB or even 10MBPS will suffice).
    i have a 512 kilo bits per second connection, RTFM on that

  10. #50
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    Re: simple question regarding download of debian 7 wheezy

    Quote Originally Posted by sid0972 View Post
    i have a 512 kilo bits per second connection, RTFM on that
    No need to get upset.

    The only difference a slow connection would make with a netinstall would be that it takes longer to complete.
    If you don't have a great connection, installing with the full install cd is the way to go.
    Last edited by CharlesA; May 10th, 2013 at 06:23 AM. Reason: formatting
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