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Thread: Old hardware brought back to life

  1. #231
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Beans
    15

    Re: Old hardware brought back to life

    I've got a Pentium III (32-bit SSE-only processor) with 512MB that I'm trying to use mostly as a X Server and VNC/RDP client, the idea being that a remote machine running is doing all the heavy lifting, and the old PC is mostly just a GUI console with some limited functionality.

    To that end, I installed Trisquel Mini 9.0, which is a Lubuntu 18.04 derivative distro with the packages even further narrowed down. I must say, just doing that was not easy, and many basic things are not working:
    • The 'Ubiquity' installer for Ubuntu crashes on non-SSE2 equipment because it uses WebKitGtk to display an entertaining graphical slideshow during the installation. Alas, WebKitGtk is in fact the back-end for some web browsers, and it is now using SSE2. Worse, the hidden option to hide the installer slideshow during the installation is broken, and setting that causes the installer to crash (on all hardware type). Recompiled WebKitGtk without SSE2 and was able to get the installation to finally complete!
    • VNC clients are behaving funny. The remote screen displays, but mouse clicks are not recognized on the remote system. I'm assuming that illegal instructions are happening internally in the graphical library but being handled quietly (i.e. silent errors). The situation does seem to mess up the x11vnc server on the remote machine too!
    • Remote X windows are simply not displaying on the laptop. The remote process thinks that its window is up and showing, but locally nothing has actually appeared! Again, I'm assuming illegal instructions are happening internally in the graphical library and being handled insufficiently (i.e. silent errors)


    At this point, a Raspberry Pi 3 using ARM seems to perform better than this laptop does. It's really frustrating! And it really isn't that the hardware isn't just as capable, but rather too many packages have introduced the newer instruction set now. I am thinking that a full emulator like QEMU might be what these machines now need, however that sort of process needs space, memory, and speed to run an effective virtualization environment, and that is not the type of thing these machines are going to be able to handle very well; Rather, it will just make them perform even more awfully (even if that approach might actually promise even support for a virtual 64-bit environment on these machines).

    What i think we really need now is a full blown 32-bit SSE-only certified Linux distro, but to do that right is going to require examining the compile flags of thousands of packages, and modifying and recompiling a good number of them to stay off the newer instruction sets.
    Last edited by cparke; April 12th, 2021 at 05:31 PM.

  2. #232
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hartford City, Indiana US
    Beans
    1,387
    Distro
    Ubuntu 20.04 Focal Fossa

    Re: Old hardware brought back to life

    Ubuntu 22.04 runs great on an old FX 6100 processor! Had to overclock it to 4.1 GHz but it's no longer slow!

  3. #233
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Dominion of Canada
    Beans
    123
    Distro
    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: Old hardware brought back to life

    An immensely useful resource for those who revitalize older PCs of nearly every make, model and type imaginable:

    "This is a project to anonymously collect hardware details of Linux-powered computers over the world and help people to collaboratively debug hardware related issues, check for Linux-compatibility and find drivers.

    Probe your computer in order to participate in the project and discover your hardware in details. Share your probes with Linux developers to debug and fix problems with your computer. Please read more in our blog."


    Ubuntu Hardware Database
    https://linux-hardware.org/?d=Ubuntu

    A sample taken from the notebook in my signature:

    HW probe of Dell Latitude E4310 #dd3e716d03
    https://linux-hardware.org/?probe=dd3e716d03

    The Intel AX200 / Bluetooth 5.2-based mPCIe card my June 2010-era Dell Latitude E4310 was successfully further upgraded with:

    MPE-AX3000H - Fenvi Technology
    https://fenvi.com/product_detail_1.html

    --
    LM 21.1 Cinnamon | Dell Latitude E4310 (A15) | Core i5 560m | Mobile Intel QS57 Express | Intel HD Graphics | Toshiba LCD1309 1600x900 | 8 GB PC3-10600 | 3 x CT2000MX500SSD1 | S251SMU33EP | ECUSB3S11 | mPCIe Intel AX200 / BT 5.2 Fenvi MPE-AX3000H

  4. #234
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Dominion of Canada
    Beans
    123
    Distro
    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: Old hardware brought back to life

    x86-64-v2

    To a degree, this may be a future consideration for those choosing a GNU/Linux OS for an older PC.

    "Tumbleweed currently targets base x86_64 (v1) but now will be moving to x86-64-v2. By going with x86-64-v2, CPU instructions set extensions now required include CMPXCHG16B, LAHF-SAHF, POPCNT, SSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, and SSSE3. This basically shifts the baseline CPU requirements to roughly Intel Nehalem era processors or AMD Bulldozer and newer. Now being able to always assume SSE4.2 / SSSE3 / etc make for better compiler targeting to newer systems.

    The x86-64-v2 requirement limits the Tumbleweed CPU support to roughly Intel CPUs of the past 15 years or on the AMD side hardware within roughly the past decade.

    This is a sane move for openSUSE/SUSE to make as we roll into 2023. Besides openSUSE ALP requiring x86-64-v2, RHEL9 also mandates x86-64-v2 and being eyed by other distributions too. It's at the x86-64-v3 level where AVX becomes a requirement and other newer instructions that more sharply limit the supported processors, particularly in the low-end and embedded space. But x86-64-v2 for 2023+ Linux distributions makes sense."


    28 November 2022
    openSUSE Tumbleweed Begins Transitioning To x86-64-v2 CPU Requirements - Phoronix
    https://www.phoronix.com/news/openSU...weed-x86-64-v2
    https://archive.ph/zjwuA

    Things aren't so cut & dried when it comes to what a Nehalem core can support.

    Code:
    john@john-Latitude-E4310-SSD:~$ cpu-info
    Packages:
        0: Intel Core i5 560M
    Microarchitectures:
        2x Nehalem
    Cores:
        0: 2 processors (0-1), Intel Nehalem
        1: 2 processors (2-3), Intel Nehalem
    Logical processors (System ID):
        0 (0): APIC ID 0x00000000
        1 (2): APIC ID 0x00000001
        2 (1): APIC ID 0x00000004
        3 (3): APIC ID 0x00000005
    john@john-Latitude-E4310-SSD:~$ 
    john@john-Latitude-E4310-SSD:~$ 
    john@john-Latitude-E4310-SSD:~$ lscpu
    Architecture:            x86_64
      CPU op-mode(s):        32-bit, 64-bit
      Address sizes:         36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual
      Byte Order:            Little Endian
    CPU(s):                  4
      On-line CPU(s) list:   0-3
    Vendor ID:               GenuineIntel
      Model name:            Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 CPU       M 560  @ 2.67GHz
        CPU family:          6
        Model:               37
        Thread(s) per core:  2
        Core(s) per socket:  2
        Socket(s):           1
        Stepping:            5
        Frequency boost:     enabled
        CPU max MHz:         2667.0000
        CPU min MHz:         1199.0000
        BogoMIPS:            5320.02
        Flags:               fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mc
                             a cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht 
                             tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon p
                             ebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc cpuid aperf
                             mperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est t
                             m2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 popcnt aes l
                             ahf_lm pti ssbd ibrs ibpb stibp tpr_shadow vnmi flexpri
                             ority ept vpid dtherm ida arat flush_l1d
    Virtualization features: 
      Virtualization:        VT-x
    Caches (sum of all):     
      L1d:                   64 KiB (2 instances)
      L1i:                   64 KiB (2 instances)
      L2:                    512 KiB (2 instances)
      L3:                    3 MiB (1 instance)
    NUMA:                    
      NUMA node(s):          1
      NUMA node0 CPU(s):     0-3
    Vulnerabilities:         
      Itlb multihit:         KVM: Mitigation: VMX disabled
      L1tf:                  Mitigation; PTE Inversion; VMX conditional cache flushe
                             s, SMT vulnerable
      Mds:                   Vulnerable: Clear CPU buffers attempted, no microcode; 
                             SMT vulnerable
      Meltdown:              Mitigation; PTI
      Mmio stale data:       Unknown: No mitigations
      Retbleed:              Not affected
      Spec store bypass:     Mitigation; Speculative Store Bypass disabled via prctl
      Spectre v1:            Mitigation; usercopy/swapgs barriers and __user pointer
                              sanitization
      Spectre v2:            Mitigation; Retpolines, IBPB conditional, IBRS_FW, STIB
                             P conditional, RSB filling, PBRSB-eIBRS Not affected
      Srbds:                 Not affected
      Tsx async abort:       Not affected
    john@john-Latitude-E4310-SSD:~$
    LM 21.1 Cinnamon | Dell Latitude E4310 (A15) | Core i5 560m | Mobile Intel QS57 Express | Intel HD Graphics | Toshiba LCD1309 1600x900 | 8 GB PC3-10600 | 3 x CT2000MX500SSD1 | S251SMU33EP | ECUSB3S11 | mPCIe Intel AX200 / BT 5.2 Fenvi MPE-AX3000H

  5. #235
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Dominion of Canada
    Beans
    123
    Distro
    Ubuntu 14.04 Trusty Tahr

    Re: Old hardware brought back to life

    Yet another consideration in determining whether a particular older PC is worth restoring or salvaging for parts.

    ... Requiring SSE4.1 is far less controversial than trying to mandate AVX for Blender while allows for a slightly newer baseline than the current SSE2 requirement. This could help with better performance of Blender and also shorter build times since right now the Blender Cycles renderer compiles separate kernels for SSE2, SSE3, SSE41, AVX, and AVX2.

    SSE4.1 has been around since Intel's 45nm "Penryn" processors in 2007. For AMD processors it's with Bulldozer and newer having full SSE4.1 support. ...

    9 December 2022
    Blender Eyes Raising Its CPU Requirements - Phoronix
    https://www.phoronix.com/news/Blender-Eyes-Raising-CPUs

    --
    LM 21.1 Cinnamon | Dell Latitude E4310 (A15) | Core i5 560m | Mobile Intel QS57 Express | Intel HD Graphics | Toshiba LCD1309 1600x900 | 8 GB PC3-10600 | 3 x CT2000MX500SSD1 | S251SMU33EP | ECUSB3S11 | mPCIe Intel AX200 / BT 5.2 Fenvi MPE-AX3000H

  6. #236
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Promiseland
    Beans
    1,539
    Distro
    Xubuntu 22.04 Jammy Jellyfish

    Re: Old hardware brought back to life

    Yet another consideration in determining whether a particular older PC is worth restoring or salvaging for parts.
    Our local township has a recycle facility that accepts usable and unusable computers and other electronics. They, in turn, turn them over to a firm that recovers the salvageable parts for reuse. I have two or three computers that I am dropping off this week.
    Cheers,


    The Linux Command Line at http://linuxcommand.org/

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