Which Laptop for EASY Dual-Booting of ANY Linux Distro and Win7?

[Phugoid]

Hello .

So, I just got a full refund on a HP Pavilion g6 2213sa laptop that I bought a few weeks ago. It came with Windows 8 and this horrible new UEFI/EFI bull and it just would not behave when I wanted to install Linux of any kind.

So, now I'm on the hunt for a new laptop, and I want to be extremely sure before I buy that, this time, the laptop I get will be just as easy to Dual boot as all the other laptops I've owned previously.

Obviously in places like PC World I can't trust any of the salesmen there to give me the correct answer, and obviously they would never actually demonstrate to me that Linux and Windows can behave and co-exist nicely on their systems. So I guess the only place I can trust an opinion of what laptops are suitable for dual booting is here in Linux forums.

Anyway, I'm an Engineering doctoral student so I do a lot of simulation/programming work, and I'm also a bit of a musician and have a home studio - so that's the things I'll mainly be using the computer for, as well as the usual browsing/e-mail/etc. So for that reason I need a computer with a lot of RAM (say min 6GB), a quality powerhouse CPU (say minimum of an i5 or equivalent) and a decent sized hard-drive (min 500GB).

It needs to have wireless (standard), some USB ports (at least one 3.0 USB port!), HDMI port, CD optical drive with cd/dvd rewriter capabilities, SD card reader, etc.

A decent graphics card would be nice but not essential, and a decent soundcard would be nice but not essential (I have external audio cards for recording in my home studio, so not a lot of that needs to take place on board the computer, just as long as it has the RAM and processing capabilities to handle multi-track recordings in a digital audio workstation).

My range is £400-600, although willing to go a bit higher to be guaranteed quality.

Any responses welcome and appreciated!

[ahallubuntu]

~

[Phugoid]

UEFI is not going away. You can buy an older laptop without it (with Windows 7) but in the future you're going to have to deal with UEFI to install Linux. Just about any Windows 7-compatible laptop not designed for Windows 8 should be fine. I've never had any issues dual boot installing on any older hardware that I can recall.

How much research did you do about installing Linux on that HP? The Linux Foundation has created a bootloader that is supposed to work, plus the newest versions of Ubuntu should too. Granted, I haven't tried myself, and HP wouldn't be my choice for a laptop anyway...

I did a lot of research. I spent 3 weeks solid with the thing just trying to get it to dual-boot. I tried it with Mint, OpenSUSE, Fedora and Ubuntu.

I had the most success with Ubuntu because it let me install it and I could access ubuntu by hitting F9 and selecting the grub loader as a boot device, but I had to do that EVERY TIME, and the BIOS that was available on the machine would not let me permanently change the boot device to that.

I'm aware that UEFI is something I'll probably have to accept, but I'd at least like a machine with a nice BIOS with lots of options so that I can decide what to boot, what order to boot it, when to boot it, and have it all work that way that I want, and not the way that somebody who is getting a lot of cash from Microsoft wants.

I don't want Windows 8 anyway, it's rubbish, and it doesn't do anything that I can't get from Windows 7 for the limited amount that I need to use it.

Anyway, any suggestions about which laptop? Anybody have a laptop that meets my requirements that they can recommend and assure me that it'll behave nicely?

[tux-gamer]

You can try Asus X201E (F201E), the bios still have 2 choice, so if you don't want to use UEFI yo can switch to PO.
I use this laptop, triple boot: Kubuntu 12.10, OpenSUSE 12.3 and Windows 8.
I use PO in Bios with grub version 1.
ofcourse you can still using windows 7 with this laptop.

[Phugoid]

You can try Asus X201E (F201E), the bios still have 2 choice, so if you don't want to use UEFI yo can switch to PO.
I use this laptop, triple boot: Kubuntu 12.10, OpenSUSE 12.3 and Windows 8.
I use PO in Bios with grub version 1.
ofcourse you can still using windows 7 with this laptop.

Hmm... doesn't really match up to the specs I need.

[kurt18947]

Historically, Thinkpads have been pretty good for linux. Most hardware "just worked". I have 2 but they're both Vista/Win7 vintage with conventional BIOSs. I imagine anything with the capability you need is going to have UEFI and Secure Boot. Unless you could find a NOS (new old stock) Win7 machine with adequate specs. Keep an eye on Ebay for a manufactuer refurb with manufacturer's warranty? . I suspect/hope the UEFI will become standardized over the next few months and Secure Boot is being challenged in the EU by a Spanish group. I think now is not a great time to be buying a new laptop but sometimes we just can't be choosy.

[Phugoid]

Historically, Thinkpads have been pretty good for linux. Most hardware "just worked". I have 2 but they're both Vista/Win7 vintage with conventional BIOSs. I imagine anything with the capability you need is going to have UEFI and Secure Boot. Unless you could find a NOS (new old stock) Win7 machine with adequate specs. Keep an eye on Ebay for a manufactuer refurb with manufacturer's warranty? . I suspect/hope the UEFI will become standardized over the next few months and Secure Boot is being challenged in the EU by a Spanish group. I think now is not a great time to be buying a new laptop but sometimes we just can't be choosy.

You're right - it's not a great time to be buying a laptop, I really don't know what to do. I don't know what machines will be up to the job and which won't, and I'd hate to buy something **** and then find out that it gets corrected due to the EU Commission's decision or something.

[darkod]

I guess it's out of the question, but I have to ask: Is a desktop out of the question? You can only hand pick components for a home made desktop, otherwise you are at the mercy of manufacturers which have only Microsoft in their mind.
When I was upgrading my desktop few months back I made sure to read the chosen board manual to make sure it allows to disable UEFI boot. I went with Gigabyte F2A85X-D3H and I'm very happy with it.

A desktop would allow you to install windows and ubuntu in legacy mode and dual boot the good old way.

If you insist on a laptop, I'm afraid you're stuck. UEFI and Secure Boot were only made to make dual booting more difficult, at least for the next few years. I don't think anyone can guarantee you anything unless they happen to use a machine that enters in your specs and price range.

[Phugoid]

I guess it's out of the question, but I have to ask: Is a desktop out of the question? You can only hand pick components for a home made desktop, otherwise you are at the mercy of manufacturers which have only Microsoft in their mind.
When I was upgrading my desktop few months back I made sure to read the chosen board manual to make sure it allows to disable UEFI boot. I went with Gigabyte F2A85X-D3H and I'm very happy with it.

A desktop would allow you to install windows and ubuntu in legacy mode and dual boot the good old way.

If you insist on a laptop, I'm afraid you're stuck. UEFI and Secure Boot were only made to make dual booting more difficult, at least for the next few years. I don't think anyone can guarantee you anything unless they happen to use a machine that enters in your specs and price range.

I have toyed with the idea of a desktop, but I think it would be inconvenient. I want to use the same machine for my home studio, my work and also for travelling (occasional business trips), so a Laptop really is the ideal solution for me. I did consider buying a desktop for the home studio (that's where I'll be using most of my high-end processing and where I require Windows mostly), and buying an older netbook/laptop just with Linux on it for trips, working, etc. But I'd prefer a laptop.

It'd be easy if they just listed this information about disabling UEFI in the specs .

[darkod]

It'd be easy if they just listed this information about disabling UEFI in the specs .

The problem is not whether they list it or not. Look at HP bios for example. It's very limited, in a way not even a proper bios. It can't match the full bios you get with a motherboard. Dell does the same, other brands too.

And another thing: Your windows will come preinstalled, and they choose how to install it. You don't even get the win8 dvd which could help you reinstall it in legacy mode once you disable uefi. For example, you get your new laptop and disable uefi (lets say the option is there). Then what? Windows can't boot because it was installed in uefi.

Not sure if you can use the restore partition but make it restore in legacy mode, since that partition returns the machine to factory state, and the factory state was uefi mode.

Welcome to having no choice and control for your 600 pounds spent.