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Thread: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

  1. #61
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn View Post
    You've never had any piece of software that uses GTK crash on you?
    At least, I can't recall a time where I had that happen. On the flip side I was having plasma crashes each time the system should be shut off or rebooted. That may have been due to a specific problematic widget, though.

    EDIT - For what it's worth, it was an additional clock widget it seems. I nuked it and have logged out and restarted a number of times now without a single plasma crash. Hmm... Now for a fun project - making KDE resemble Gnome Shell.
    Last edited by Roasted; March 6th, 2013 at 12:35 PM.

  2. #62
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by 3rdalbum View Post
    Wayland has been five years in development and you still can't run a desktop on it. It seems that the best you can do is run individual applications inside Weston, inside Virtualbox. Five years of development!

    I don't think Canonical can afford to wait maybe another five years for Wayland to really be ready. If they can get Mir to run Unity, Qt5 and GTK 3 within the next 12 months they can get the benefits soon, and leapfrog Wayland.
    Writing a display server is a big task. A large team taking 5 years is not unreasonable. It would be very impressive if Canonical can get anything working in 1 year.

    Their aims are very close to those of Wayland/western. Judging from the IRC log ( http://pastebin.com/KjRm3be1 ) the technical reasons for MIR are small (server-side buffers). The initially stated reasons about input were wrong, so it looks like the MIR developers have not looked in detail at how wayland works. So it seems that the reasons for MIR are mostly political/business.

  3. #63
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by ssam View Post
    Writing a display server is a big task. A large team taking 5 years is not unreasonable. It would be very impressive if Canonical can get anything working in 1 year.
    Since they've already got working prototypes it seems they've been working on it for some time.

  4. #64
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by ssam View Post
    ... it seems that the reasons for MIR are mostly political/business.
    Dunno about the politics, but if I was running a business and wanted a display server I could use on every platform my products targeted, I'd rather develop it in-house than depend on the (be held hostage to?) different interests of developers who I can't control, i.e., Wayland.

  5. #65
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    Dunno about the politics, but if I was running a business and wanted a display server I could use on every platform my products targeted, I'd rather develop it in-house than depend on the (be held hostage to?) different interests of developers who I can't control, i.e., Wayland.
    Mhm, and partners like AMD and Nvidia would probably be reluctant to support your project if you don't have full control to make choices about the aspect that's supposed to be the reason for your partnership in the first place.
    "Act only according to that maxim by which you can also will that it would become a universal law." - Immanuel Kant
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  6. #66
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    Dunno about the politics, but if I was running a business and wanted a display server I could use on every platform my products targeted, I'd rather develop it in-house than depend on the (be held hostage to?) different interests of developers who I can't control, i.e., Wayland.
    If you're a Linux distro, 9/10 of your product (at least) is developed by third-party projects you can't control. They can do what they want for all I care, but it's a little sad when a major distro can't work with upstream; it's more sad that they have to spread FUD about other projects to justify it.

    Where does this end?

  7. #67
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by Paqman View Post
    Since they've already got working prototypes it seems they've been working on it for some time.
    youtube has plenty of demos of wayland (my favourite https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjuPn7MXMs )

    its a big step from showing a demo, to having something supports all the features a display server needs. copy+paste, input hotplugging, output hotplugging, colour correction, drag and drop, video acceleration, network/remote etc. and to give it the testing required to find the bugs. even with a team of wizards this sounds like several years of work, solving a lot of the same issues that the wayland devs have already solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by buzzingrobot View Post
    Dunno about the politics, but if I was running a business and wanted a display server I could use on every platform my products targeted, I'd rather develop it in-house than depend on the (be held hostage to?) different interests of developers who I can't control, i.e., Wayland.
    i can't image how or why the wayland devs would stop canonical porting wayland to a new platform. wayland (like X) is under a MIT licence so canonical could do in an in-house secret port, and never release the source if thats what they wanted. if they are paranoid that someone else will steal their hard work, make a phone/tablet and compete with them for market, then i am not sure opensource software is the right thing for them.
    Last edited by ssam; March 6th, 2013 at 07:27 PM. Reason: add link to demo

  8. #68
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by lykwydchykyn View Post
    If you're a Linux distro, 9/10 of your product (at least) is developed by third-party projects you can't control. They can do what they want for all I care, but it's a little sad when a major distro can't work with upstream; it's more sad that they have to spread FUD about other projects to justify it.

    Where does this end?
    Well, Canonical is considerably more than a Linux distribution.

    There's always been a tension between the commercial vendors and their dependence on independent developers who, at best, have only overlapping interests. At worst, they can walk away from something the vendors rely on.

    Canonical tries to make money selling services and support, like Red Hat and Suse. Unlike them, however, it also wants to be a player in consumer devices. That desire will, inevitably, drive them into needing more control over the development of the software used in those devices. The only way to ensure that is to develop in house.

    The ultimate tension might come if Canonical develops software that gives them an obvious commercial advantage in one part of the consumer device market. But, because it would be released as open source, their competitors could quickly use it to negate that competitive edge.

  9. #69
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by Paqman View Post
    Since they've already got working prototypes it seems they've been working on it for some time.
    "A video by one of the Mir developers shows Unity running on Mir. But it's running Unity through an X Server via the "XMir" project. [...] XMir is to Mir as XWayland is to Wayland. [...] XMir is basically an in-session root-less X Server running atop Mir. This is how legacy X11 applications will continue to be supported by Mir and is the same approach that Wayland developers did for running X applications on their display server."

    Source:
    http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?pag...tem&px=MTMxODQ


    I'm no expert on the issue, and this is probably not the best way to phrase it, but perhaps you could say that what they really are demonstrating is an X emulator? In that case they are far from having a "working prototype".

  10. #70
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    Re: MIR will be the new display server, and Unity will be ported to Qt

    Quote Originally Posted by Dry Lips View Post
    Hmmm... I wonder what will happen to the development of Wayland now that the biggest Linux distro has ditched it...
    I would say there's really only two reasonably likely outcomes.

    a. Wayland falls by the wayside.

    b. Ubuntu fails.


    Every significant desktop linux distro out there runs X.

    Having different distros running different display servers would cripple the entire linux community.

    It appears that most of the major distros have recognized that X needs to be replaced, and up until now, Wayland seemed to be the new direction.

    By abandoning Wayland in favor of MIR, Ubuntu is putting all their eggs in one basket and hoping that it will be so awesome that every major distro follows them or gives up and dies. If that happens, then great. More people running one distro means better support, a more active community, and most importantly it means that software developers will focus more on Ubuntu. It's a giant bag of win. The problem is that if everybody else moves forward with Wayland, Ubuntu will be the odd-man out. Commercially produced software will be non-existent, and the community will suffer, wither and die.

    Effectively, canonical is playing chicken with the rest of the linux world.
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