Compiz story end

[zika]

For quite some time:

:~$ sudo apt-get dist-upgrade 
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure ubuntu-desktop unity
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libcolord-gtk1
The following packages have been kept back:
  compiz compizconfig-settings-manager gnome-control-center
  gnome-control-center-data
The following packages will be upgraded:
  compiz-core compiz-gnome compiz-plugins compiz-plugins-default
  libcompizconfig0 libdecoration0
6 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 3 to remove and 4 not upgraded.
Need to get 6,143 kB of archives.
After this operation, 5,205 kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? n
Abort.

:~$ sudo aptitude full-upgrade The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libcolord-gtk1{a} 
The following packages will be upgraded:
  compiz{b} compiz-core compiz-gnome compiz-plugins compiz-plugins-default 
  compizconfig-settings-manager{b} gnome-control-center{b} 
  gnome-control-center-data libcompizconfig0 libdecoration0 
10 packages upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 13.9 MB of archives. After unpacking 10.3 MB will be used.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 unity : Depends: compiz-core-abiversion-20121210 which is a virtual package.
 compizconfig-settings-manager : Depends: python-compizconfig (>= 1:0.9.9-1-experimental1+bzr3591-201302010820~raring1) but 1:0.9.9-1-experimental1+bzr3590-201301310740~raring1 is installed.
 gnome-control-center : Depends: gnome-icon-theme (>= 3.7.4) but 3.7.3+git20121224.2af6b37d-0ubuntu1~13.04~ricotz0 is installed.
 compiz : Depends: compiz-core (>= 1:0.9.9-1-experimental1+bzr3591-201302010820~raring1) but 1:0.9.9-1-experimental1+bzr3590-201301310740~raring1 is to be installed.
          Depends: compiz-plugins-default (>= 1:0.9.9-1-experimental1+bzr3591-201302010820~raring1) but 1:0.9.9-1-experimental1+bzr3590-201301310740~raring1 is to be installed.
The following actions will resolve these dependencies:

      Remove the following packages:                                    
1)      compiz                                                          
2)      compizconfig-settings-manager                                   
3)      gnome-control-center                                            
4)      gnome-control-center-signon                                     
5)      gnome-control-center-unity                                      
6)      indicator-datetime                                              
7)      indicator-power                                                 
8)      lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure                            
9)      ubuntu-desktop                                                  
10)     unity                                                           

      Leave the following dependencies unresolved:                      
11)     gnome-bluetooth recommends gnome-control-center                 
12)     gnome-media recommends gnome-control-center                     
13)     gnome-online-accounts recommends gnome-control-center (>= 3.6.1)
14)     libaccount-plugin-1.0-0 recommends gnome-control-center-signon  
15)     mcp-account-manager-uoa recommends gnome-control-center-signon  
16)     unity-greeter recommends indicator-datetime                     
17)     unity-greeter recommends indicator-power                        
18)     unity-greeter recommends lightdm-remote-session-uccsconfigure   
19)     gnome-panel recommends gnome-control-center                     
20)     gnome-shell recommends gnome-control-center                     
21)     unity recommends gnome-control-center-unity                     
22)     unity recommends indicator-datetime                             
23)     unity recommends indicator-power                                


Accept this solution? [Y/n/q/?]

[mc4man]

For quite some time:

Well he needs to use a newer unity source to get a good build in raring, till then it would remain stuffed up.
The last unity build attempt in that ppa failed on this bug -
https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1100658
which was fixed some time ago (rev. 3044, unity is now up to r 3096, currently released at 3076 or so.

[EgoGratis]

I really don't get why Ubuntu has stayed true to compiz for so long when there are more mature and faster solutions available as Kwin and Mutter ?

The ideal solution would be modern common compositor that would allow plugins and maybe Weston could be that compositor for Wayland? In "X world" we already have that and it's called Compiz. In "X world" i would suggest ditching other compositors and focus on Compiz. In Wayland world i would suggest focusing on one compositor and basically create Compiz out of it. Yes it has to have it's own control panel or it will suck compared to Compiz in "X world".

Just the other day i was reading about Compton:

http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2013...mpton-ppa.html

Probably Compton is trying to be light and fast compositor and under tips and tricks page:

http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com.es/p/tips-tricks.html

What do i find? "Expose" and "effects" plugins. Cinnamon and it's compositor adds features like "workspaces names" like this:

http://www.iloveubuntu.net/how-easil...es-ubuntu-1210

Elementary OS has it's compositor and it does this and that...

News flash! Users do want this things. The user that don't want this things don't use "extra compositor" and there is serious NIH syndrome hammering Linux world. Compiz does it all and all this was already invented and then it was ditched and now it will be created (NIH) again. Compiz is in X world the closest thing to modern common compositors Linux had.

Top 10 things to do after installing Ubuntu usually include install CCSM and do whatever you want the feature will probably be there. In "X world" Ubuntu will probably have "the edge" for couple more years if it will use Compiz compared to other distributions on standard modern desktop computers just because other compositors lacks in features and don't offer much that Compiz can't offer to the user.

I don't know what will happen in the future but the past and still Compiz is by far the best compositor for Linux in terms of average desktop Linux user expectations.

[ventrical]

The ideal solution would be modern common compositor that would allow plugins and maybe Weston could be that compositor for Wayland? In "X world" we already have that and it's called Compiz. In "X world" i would suggest ditching other compositors and focus on Compiz. In Wayland world i would suggest focusing on one compositor and basically create Compiz out of it. Yes it has to have it's own control panel or it will suck compared to Compiz in "X world".

Just the other day i was reading about Compton:

http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com/2013...mpton-ppa.html

Probably Compton is trying to be light and fast compositor and under tips and tricks page:

http://lubuntublog.blogspot.com.es/p/tips-tricks.html

What do i find? "Expose" and "effects" plugins. Cinnamon and it's compositor adds features like "workspaces names" like this:

http://www.iloveubuntu.net/how-easil...es-ubuntu-1210

Elementary OS has it's compositor and it does this and that...

News flash! Users do want this things. The user that don't want this things don't use "extra compositor" and there is serious NIH syndrome hammering Linux world. Compiz does it all and all this was already invented and then it was ditched and now it will be created (NIH) again. Compiz is in X world the closest thing to modern common compositors Linux had.

Top 10 things to do after installing Ubuntu usually include install CCSM and do whatever you want the feature will probably be there. In "X world" Ubuntu will probably have "the edge" for couple more years if it will use Compiz compared to other distributions on standard modern desktop computers just because other compositors lacks in features and don't offer much that Compiz can't offer to the user.

I don't know what will happen in the future but the past and still Compiz is by far the best compositor for Linux in terms of average desktop Linux user expectations.

I think in the greater scope of things is; that some of the devs are trying to kill Unity and to do so they have to kill Compiz first. It's just too hard for the new kids to back-trak their depends because it don't jibe with the newer prgramming sets, especially gaming and graphics.

As for beta-testing Ubuntu in general - dropping workspace switcher from the Unity Panel from the 'live'session was totally pointless (unless it fits into the plan to eventually kill Unity) because that is basically one of the first clicks I did when the live session opened up - to eyeball test the effectiveness of the graphical install in general (because other tools are more scarce for whatever reason). I see here the old fundamental 'stack' game . They are trying to pile n' patch the stick and eventually it becomes topsy-turvy and ultimately crashes.... ya know .. 'whoops' .. yeah .. and so then .. "oh .. we decided to hold on to compiz until the NEXT release yadda"... I can see it comming..

The clues can be found in the way that Kubuntu is being babied and pampered, however , I highly doubt that Unity master and commander (Mark S.) will sit idly by while Unity slowly gets the shelf and the axe.

Lets be honest .. you kill compiz .. you kill Unity. Ubuntu without Unity desktop right now is otherwise useless.

[EgoGratis]

Unity could be made as plugin of Weston but for this to happen i expect Weston to gain some cool features (as plugins). Thinking like this but for Weston:

http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2012/...opengl-builds/

Core Weston should be ultra fast and ultra stable because i don't want to hear nagging again how Weston (read Compiz) eats too much CPU and becouse of that it should never be used and another "light one" has to be created... that will in the end try to compete with features Weston (read Compiz) has? And why? Becouse users actualy depend and expect that features and that is why Compiz is loved and used.

Reading this:

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...-kwin-and-kde/

KWin could be dropped but X11 support is the thing holding this decision back?


And then there is a problem what is the future of some popular X11 windows managers like awesome WM or Openbox because this WM are X11 WM.

For me this question is not that hard. If Weston can deliver forget about the past and focus 110% on the future. Until then use Compiz.

[screaminj3sus]

Unity could be made as plugin of Weston but for this to happen i expect Weston to gain some cool features (as plugins). Thinking like this but for Weston:

http://smspillaz.wordpress.com/2012/...opengl-builds/

Core Weston should be ultra fast and ultra stable because i don't want to hear nagging again how Weston (read Compiz) eats too much CPU and becouse of that it should never be used and another "light one" has to be created... that will in the end try to compete with features Weston (read Compiz) has? And why? Becouse users actualy depend and expect that features and that is why Compiz is loved and used.

Reading this:

http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blo...-kwin-and-kde/

KWin could be dropped but X11 support is the thing holding this decision back?


And then there is a problem what is the future of some popular X11 windows managers like awesome WM or Openbox because this WM are X11 WM.

For me this question is not that hard. If Weston can deliver forget about the past and focus 110% on the future. Until then use Compiz.

Yeah moving to wayland is the future, in the meantime compiz works just fine and I'm not worried that its gone into maintenance mode. Compiz has improved massively lately and the latest versions are quite adequate in the meantime.

[EgoGratis]

Two things that i worry the most about Wayland/Weston are:

Can Weston deliver or not and i hope the answer is you can bet it can and it will do just that!
I hope "Weston" will not try to please everybody and make to much compromises but to focus on the future and not the past because where the past is not compatible just modernize it or forget about it.

And i would like to see results sooner rather than later!

[grahammechanical]

Did anybody notice it in today's (Saturday) updates? For a change I used Update Manager. I wanted to see the new look. It downloaded something called

Wayland Compositor Infrastructure - Shared Libraries. I guess it is called hedging your bets. Jono Bacon was asked about this on his latest google hangout Q & A.

http://ubuntuonair.com/

If I remember correctly, it goes something like: X does a lot of stuff we do not need. Wayland does a lot of stuff we do not need. What do we stay with? Whatever suits our needs at the time.

Update: I have listened to the broadcast again. These are his very words.

"What we don't want to do is say, Ok, lets move away from X which includes a ton of functionality that we don't need, that drags us down, and move to something else that might include a ton of functionality that drags us down."

A re-assessment of Ubuntu display choices is taking place to take into account Ubuntu needs not only of the desktop but also for the phone and TV. News coming in the next few weeks.

Regards.

[EgoGratis]

Interesting news or speculations:

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/c...display-server

My thoughts would be:

Two things that i worry the most about Wayland/Weston are:

Can Weston deliver or not and i hope the answer is you can bet it can and it will do just that!
I hope "Weston" will not try to please everybody and make to much compromises but to focus on the future and not the past because where the past is not compatible just modernize it or forget about it.

And i would like to see results sooner rather than later!

But replace Weston with this new Y display server. I still hope Compiz will not be ditched or at least the new thing will have feature parity with what we have now. I actually think default features in Unity where possible because Compiz existed and Ubuntu could go on it's on way and quickly produced modern and snappy desktop experience and i doubt the next step would be to produce something less that what we have now and ATM we have something that is actually great.

We'll see what is all the buzz about and i hope it will turn out great!

[MadmanRB]

Its areal shame as compiz is one of the most neat things about linux.
I guess unity can start using mutter but its so limited, or muffin that is also limited.